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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-29

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Time Nick Message
00:04 MichaelRpdx joined #minetest-dev
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00:09 VanessaE oh holy crap, mesh generation is HORRIBLY laggy now
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01:22 VanessaE 21:21:50: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnvironment::deactivateFarObjects(): id=506 m_static_exists=true but static data doesn't actually exist in (-43,1,-28)
01:22 VanessaE WARNING: StaticObjectList::remove(): id=506 not found
01:22 VanessaE 21:21:50: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=506 statically but block (-43,1,-28) already contains 508 objects. Forcing delete.
01:22 VanessaE um, explain please?
01:22 VanessaE my server's log is being flooded with messages like this
01:22 VanessaE for this particular mapblock and one or two others
01:22 VanessaE and there is NOTHING here but air and some tree leaves
01:23 VanessaE (mainly the flood is the "forcing delete" line, and yes I translated that location from mapblock to actual world coordinates e.g. -688,16,-728)
01:29 VanessaE the server is sitting there repeating over and over,
01:29 VanessaE 21:28:50: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=886 statically but block (-43,1,-28) already contains 519 objects. Forcing delete.
01:29 VanessaE every couple of seconds, even if there's no one signed on
01:29 VanessaE with the id number incrementing each time.
01:32 VanessaE aaaannnnnd.......
01:32 VanessaE 21:31:20: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=1330 statically but block (-43,1,-28) already contains 522 objects. Forcing delete.
01:32 VanessaE /home/minetest/Scripts/minetestserver-creative.sh: line 21:  8794 Segmentation fault      /usr/bin/minetestserver --worldname Creative_World --config /home/minetest/.minetest/mi​netest-server-creative.conf --gameid dreambuilder_game --port 30000 --disable-unittests --logfile $DEBUG
01:32 VanessaE out of the blue.  for no reason.
01:33 VanessaE twice.  in a row.
01:34 * VanessaE loads it into gdb.
01:34 VanessaE if it does again, I'll get a backtrace.
01:34 VanessaE dies*
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01:38 VanessaE hmmmm: any commentary?  you're the map emerge expert, seems like this might be your area?
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01:50 kahrl VanessaE: I've seen stuff like that happen when you throw an item out the bottom of the world
01:50 kahrl although your coordinates are far away from that, so no idea
01:51 VanessaE and I just did a clearobjects an hour or so ago, impossible for a player to have had a chance to repeat such an action
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02:13 hmmmm VanessaE, no idea about that.  I recall somebody recently fixed a bug related to disappearing items though
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03:09 VanessaE ok, got a backtrace of that crash
03:09 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1426
03:11 VanessaE I still have it loaded in gdb if someone can direct me to getting more info from it.
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04:00 hmmmm VanessaE, what commit is that at
04:01 VanessaE HEAD + https://github.com/sapier/minetest​/tree/fix_player_deleted_to_early
04:03 hmmmm well it appears that the PlayerSAO's m_inventory is invalid somehow
04:03 VanessaE just to be sure it's not that patch, I just restarted, issued another clearobjects, and meanwhile re-cloned/rebuilt clean and refreshed all the games/mods.  when the clear is done, I'll restart.  I don't expect that'll actually change anything though.
04:05 hmmmm when PlayerSAO gets constructed, the Player * that gets passed to it has an invalid inventory it seems
04:14 hmmmm I am not able to determine the problem unless I actually caught it in a debugger
04:14 hmmmm s/caught/catch/
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04:17 VanessaE what do you need from me if I catch a crash in gdb again?
04:18 hmmmm I don't know, I'd just play around with it a bit
04:18 VanessaE hm
04:19 hmmmm first you need to make sure that PlayerSAO::m_inventory is a pointer to a valid inventory
04:19 hmmmm and if not, where it gets set to something odd
04:20 hmmmm this is best handled with somebody who has knowledge of the inventory and item systems, it's a very deep issue
04:20 VanessaE well the map is available for download, though the current copy is almost a week old
04:20 VanessaE and it's big
04:20 hmmmm somewhere along the line, the player's inventory pointer gets swapped and deleted and not updated back
04:20 VanessaE (like a few gigs)
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04:22 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hob​bies/minetest/worlds/Creative_World.tar.bz2
04:23 VanessaE I can update the copy if the existing one isn't new enough.
04:23 VanessaE (or it'll update automatically in a couple days anyway)
04:33 hmmmm hmm
04:34 hmmmm ClientMap already attempts to do some occlusion culling
04:34 hmmmm only thing is, it sucks at it
04:34 hmmmm you could be staring directly at a wall and it'll only occlude like 350 of 700 blocks in range
04:35 VanessaE didn't I say that like, a year ago?
04:35 hmmmm I don't know if you did or not
04:35 VanessaE I did.
04:35 VanessaE I was basically told to shut up :P
04:35 VanessaE (not by you though)
04:35 VanessaE my test was staring at the ground though, rather than a wall
04:35 hmmmm well, I'd rather first ask celeron why he chose to attempt manual occlusion rather than use irrlicht's
04:36 VanessaE same diff.
04:36 VanessaE wat?
04:36 hmmmm irrlicht has occlusion culling
04:36 VanessaE at the time I was told rather...clearly... that attempting to manually occlude ANYTHING was guaranteed to be like, orders of magnitude slower than just throwing it all at the GPU and letting it sort it out
04:37 hmmmm well this is manually occluding things
04:37 kahrl hmmmm: does it work for changing meshes? or is it meant for static maps like in quake (with vis information)?
04:37 VanessaE maybe related to everything being all in one irrlicht scene node?
04:38 hmmmm i.e. not adding blocks to the drawlist after checking 8 corners of the cube and the center
04:39 kahrl oh, http://irrlicht.sourceforg​e.net/docu/example026.html
04:39 kahrl so it seems it should work with our kind of meshes, and it offloads the work to the GPU
04:39 hmmmm yeah kahrl
04:39 hmmmm that's what I was reading
04:39 hmmmm anyway that's the entire point of making each mapblock have a scenenode
04:40 hmmmm so you can do that
04:40 kahrl well, I know that the other voxel game has that kind of thing (called "Advanced OpenGL", can be disabled), on some computers this seems to cause chunk errors
04:40 kahrl might be problem with the software or the GPU, idk
04:40 kahrl be a*
04:42 hmmmm more specifically
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04:42 hmmmm a more accurate way of checking if mapblocks need to be drawn or not is needed
04:43 hmmmm so fixing isOccluded() would also help
04:43 hmmmm manually computing whether or not a block is occluded isn't very slow
04:43 hmmmm calls to ClientMap::updateDrawList() take like 2ms
04:43 hmmmm yea, that's still a lot more than necessary though..
04:49 hmmmm am I wrong in saying that ClientMap::updateDrawList() iterates through every loaded mapblock to decide whether or not something should be drawn?  :(
04:50 kahrl yes
04:50 VanessaE hmmmm: the affected server's clearobjects has finished and it has been restarted, back to current git HEAD, no patch.  if it segfaults again, I'll get another backtrace.
04:50 kahrl it skips the MapSectors that are out of range
04:51 VanessaE still seeing this appear every so often though, with different, incrementing IDs:
04:51 VanessaE 00:51:12: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnvironment::deactivateFarObjects(): id=115 m_static_exists=true but static data doesn't actually exist in (-43,1,-28)
04:51 VanessaE WARNING: StaticObjectList::remove(): id=115 not found
04:52 hmmmm kahrl, from what I'm reading it skips blocks inside of sectors that are out of range
04:52 hmmmm it still gets all the blocks from within the sectors
04:55 hmmmm hmm, anyway, the implementation looks solid, but why is it inaccurate then?
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05:10 * VanessaE sighs.
05:13 VanessaE so.  Creative doesn't seem to segfault if I take sapier's patch out, but without that patch, well, the server just deletes players when it deletes what it thinks are hundreds of entities that don't even exist
05:18 VanessaE ok, it's a mod bug.  *sigh*
05:18 VanessaE as usual.
05:19 VanessaE however, deleting players with entities is still an engine bug
05:19 VanessaE (the hundreds-of-entities is a mod bug I meant)
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08:17 RealBadAngel hi
08:17 RealBadAngel i just read the backlog, makin block a scenenode could be good idea
08:18 RealBadAngel i was thinkin about that and even makin a node real scene node
08:19 nore wouldn't that cause performance issues?
08:19 RealBadAngel i wanted to add simple visibility checks for each node in all 6 directions, and then add it to scene or not
08:20 RealBadAngel this way everything physically not visible (all whats underground for example) will be excluded
08:20 RealBadAngel that should be tested
08:21 RealBadAngel if time spent on excluding nodes could be gained back with bonus while displayin the world
08:23 RealBadAngel btw this approach should also solve depth sorting problems, because irrlicht will do that
08:23 nore I still haven't understood where those problems are coming from
08:24 RealBadAngel mainly from that whole world is just one scene node
08:24 RealBadAngel or sometimes two, when there are too many meshes
08:25 RealBadAngel theres limit in irrlicht for vertices and indices, 64k
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08:25 RealBadAngel for a single scene node i mean
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08:25 nore yes, but why does that cause z-sorting problems? is it Irrlicht?
08:26 RealBadAngel im not sure, but propably our approach to that
08:27 RealBadAngel http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-06-29#i_3786730
08:28 RealBadAngel ah, i ve finished work on glasslike_framed, will prepare a pull shortly
08:28 RealBadAngel thx to work on that i found bug in materials
08:29 RealBadAngel for the very first time something is working correctly with shaders and fucked up without ;)
08:30 Calinou bug in glasslike_framed: it thinks nodebox is a full block :(
08:30 Calinou looks ugly when I place a torch on glass
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08:32 RealBadAngel Calinou, thats propably fixed by now, you will have to check that again with upcoming patch
08:33 RealBadAngel i have reworked whole drawtype
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08:34 Calinou thanks
08:45 RealBadAngel Calinou, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1428
08:45 RealBadAngel you can test it now
08:46 Calinou I'm running old Git because of Carbone crashing in latest Git currently :/
08:47 Calinou (client-side)
08:47 RealBadAngel i tried carbone and havent experienced any crashes
08:48 RealBadAngel do you have any logs about the crashes?
08:48 Calinou I'll update to latest Git and try
08:48 Calinou how to compile a debug build?
08:50 RealBadAngel You can select between Release and Debug build by -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=<Debug or Release>
08:52 Calinou building a debug build
08:54 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/7720330/
08:54 Calinou debug build, gdb with bt full
08:55 Calinou client crashes on world loading. Server starts fine
08:59 Calinou do I post an issue, RealBadAngel?
08:59 RealBadAngel hold on, trying to find out where i have already seen such crash
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09:01 Calinou https://mediacru.sh/201811ba8f02 → minetest_game looks like crap
09:01 Calinou I use the “debug” light table, but why is ambient occlusion broken (sides of nodes)?
09:02 Calinou looks the same without shaders
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09:02 RealBadAngel whats wrong on those pictures?
09:02 Calinou it's obvious: corners aren't darkened
09:02 Calinou it looks like smooth lighting is disabled
09:03 RealBadAngel hmmm, i havent touched smooth lighting for sure
09:03 RealBadAngel nore also reported some problems with it
09:03 Calinou will revert to older commit to play Carbone anyway :p
09:04 nore RBA, no, smooth lighting works for me
09:04 RealBadAngel can you check which commit breaks carbone for you?
09:04 Calinou trying various HEAD~n values
09:04 nore but nodes are randomly darkened
09:04 Calinou look at the screenshots I posted
09:05 Calinou https://mediacru.sh/b273c58a7081 → it was like this before
09:07 Calinou HEAD~8 is broken
09:09 nore RBA:  (param2 & 128) > 0 ? true:false; -> (param2 & 128) > 0
09:10 nore or even (bool)(param2 & 128)
09:10 Calinou HEAD~9, HEAD~10, HEAD~11, HEAD~12, HEAD~13 also are…
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09:16 Calinou still trying
09:16 RealBadAngel nore, the last one does not work
09:17 Calinou HEAD est maintenant à 56bf867 Use memset for flag initialization (compiler optimization is way better) → works
09:17 nore RBA, didn't know that
09:17 Calinou smooth lighting looks OK too
09:17 nore but at least, it is sure the first one does
09:18 nore Calinou, so what is the commit that causes the problem?
09:19 RealBadAngel the first one im already using
09:19 RealBadAngel bool H_merge = (param2 & 128) > 0 ? true:false;
09:19 RealBadAngel ah
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09:23 Calinou this commit crashes: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/35ec3855f689cf2c6b1504a5813b7c3d9697ae14
09:33 RealBadAngel nore, actually the last suggestion works too, just had to negate it
09:33 RealBadAngel bool H_merge = ! bool(param2 & 128);
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09:33 RealBadAngel sapier, right in time
09:33 RealBadAngel <Calinou> this commit crashes: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/35ec3855f689cf2c6b1504a5813b7c3d9697ae14
09:34 RealBadAngel http://paste.ubuntu.com/7720330/
09:35 sapier how to reproduce?
09:35 RealBadAngel it is crashing Calinou's carbone
09:35 nore RBA, what? (bool)0 -> true?
09:36 RealBadAngel nore, no i just needed negated values
09:37 sapier rba yes that commit is responsible .. as of making minetest faster causing other bugs to appear ... seems like the crash is another variant of the non grabed irrlicht member
09:37 sapier m_textnode most likely is already deleted there
09:38 nore RBA, but a?true:false is same as a, am I  wrong?
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09:41 RealBadAngel nore, i had a glitch there after cleanup, thx to that i noticed it, from here comes need of negation
09:41 RealBadAngel not from logic itself ;)
09:42 nore ah, ok ;)
09:43 sapier hmm textnodes are only available for players ... I wonder if this might be related to the new player unload feature too
09:44 Calinou http://gitorious.org/Calinou/carbone → is link to game, if you want to try to reproduce
09:45 sapier according to backtrace that one is quite similar to the animated mesh bug I fixed 2 days ago
09:45 sapier there's a potential for a third one with spritenode and meshnode too ... I'll fix all of them
09:46 sapier still it's strange that player cao is removed at all
09:46 sapier I assume you'd just run into another bug after the crash is fixed
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09:47 sapier I guess that's a variant of vanessaE's bug where playersao can't be added to environment and thus player never emerges completely
09:49 sapier what do I have to do to crash it?
09:51 VanessaE sapier: speaking of, did you see that bug I posted?
09:51 sapier what happened?
09:52 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1426
09:52 VanessaE I closed it as being ultimately brought on by a mod, but I should probably re-open it since it does lead to a segfault.
09:53 sapier no the segfault is caused by another bug
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09:55 sapier still I think there is an issue, by now missing a player object wasn't possible at all, now it shouldn't happen to while data is sent to that player ... having it happen shows there's some reason a player is deactivated prior really logging out
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09:56 VanessaE sapier: without your patch, Creative is really touchy to objects being created/deleted.  With it, it's prone to segfault but not actually touchy to the delete actions.
09:56 VanessaE (I stopped the creation of the objects by disabling a misbehaving component in a mod... or possibly so anyway)
09:56 sapier both not really helpfull :_/
09:56 VanessaE by touchy I mean players being deleted when the objects are deleted.
09:57 sapier Calinou: latest master shouldn't crash any longer
09:58 sapier ok so with my patch the player stays there but I missed something so it's not a clean state
09:59 sapier maybe a player not beeing added to a block
09:59 VanessaE correct.
09:59 sapier wonder if that could happen before too, playersao's have been created otf before too
09:59 VanessaE this doesn't solve the issue that caused the bug to show itself, but that's my problem to solve, not yours :)
10:00 sapier so this is actually another case of "mod getting core to do bad things"
10:00 VanessaE yes, something like that.
10:00 RealBadAngel sapier, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1428
10:00 RealBadAngel im done with it
10:00 VanessaE (in case you're curious, I think it was pipeworks' teleporter tubes sending items off into blocks that no longer had a receiver)
10:01 VanessaE RealBadAngel: this is the pull that, among other things, will enable the plasma lamps?
10:01 RealBadAngel yes
10:01 VanessaE good deal.
10:01 RealBadAngel theres a small issue i noticed thx to it
10:02 RealBadAngel but not related to drawtype, but use of irrlicht materials
10:02 RealBadAngel use_texture_alpha is buggy
10:02 VanessaE yeah, it causes inventory cubes/models to look weird :)
10:02 RealBadAngel it does work correctly while using shaders, and is somehow fucked up without them
10:02 VanessaE (homedecor's fishtank renders fine in-game but not in the inventory)
10:03 RealBadAngel thats related propably
10:03 RealBadAngel i will try to fix that asap
10:04 VanessaE no rush.
10:04 sapier inventorycubes are rendered with shaders disabled
10:04 RealBadAngel yes
10:04 RealBadAngel i said that use of that is fucked up without shaders
10:04 RealBadAngel the feature works correctly when shaders are on
10:05 RealBadAngel theres still lotsa old,  dead and test code in mapblock_mesh.cpp
10:06 RealBadAngel shaders code is free of such garbage
10:07 sapier rba please check for missing spaces ;-) It's to much to comment each line ;-)
10:08 RealBadAngel hehe ok
10:08 sapier well rba as shaders are only available on opengl that's it's a must have to work without shaders too
10:08 sapier -that's
10:08 RealBadAngel i know, but the old code was not mine
10:09 RealBadAngel i have to dig and check whats fucked up
10:09 sapier no problem take your time and focus on 0.4.10 bugs for the moment ;-)
10:10 RealBadAngel this is 0.4.10 bug
10:10 RealBadAngel and im gonna fix it today
10:11 sapier when did we add those frames to 0.4.10 ;-)
10:11 RealBadAngel frames are not buggy
10:11 RealBadAngel materials are
10:11 RealBadAngel and that is here since always
10:12 sapier well no need to discuss about it, as it's to be found anyway
10:12 RealBadAngel yup
10:12 RealBadAngel propably it will end with kickin more stuff outta mapblock_mesh
10:13 sapier the more you have to do there the bigger risk for 0.4.10 so be carefull
10:14 sapier pushing https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1417
10:14 RealBadAngel btw, what you can see running with dtime is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/src/mapblock_mesh.cpp#L1288
10:15 sapier and?
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10:17 RealBadAngel sapier, so no collecting new data (refreshing) just animations
10:18 sapier I don't know what you're talking about now ;-)
10:18 RealBadAngel you were thinkin before that refreshing is done dtime
10:18 RealBadAngel we have talked about it a few days ago
10:19 sapier sorry can't remember ... guess it wasn't that important in this case
10:19 RealBadAngel yeah ;)
10:19 RealBadAngel it was just a side note
10:32 RealBadAngel sapier, ok, fixed those spaces
10:36 Krock so, is today the release-day?
10:36 sapier no
10:36 sapier but most likely feature freeze day
10:36 Krock ah okay
10:43 RealBadAngel sapier, btw what about translations? i would like to fix some polish ones
10:43 sapier guess that's best thing to do after feature freeze
10:44 RealBadAngel sure
10:46 sapier maybe we should try to find out who is gonna do what for the release
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10:52 sapier who can change minetest.net?
10:52 VanessaE sapier: do you have something I can use to work around this players-are-deleted-with-SAO glitch so nore and I can work out this mod bug that revealed it?
10:53 sapier you can try the patch I provided yesterday on current master ... hopefully it doesn't crash any longer
10:53 VanessaE ok.
10:54 VanessaE "hopefully" :)
10:56 PilzAdam sapier, I can
10:57 sapier ok :-) good you might get some work next weekend
10:58 VanessaE sapier: FAIL.
10:58 PilzAdam I marked #1425 as blocker, anything against that?
10:58 VanessaE segfaulted within a few seconds of my signing in.
10:59 sapier Hmm was worth a try ... can you post the backtrace somewhere?
10:59 sapier nope PilzAdam but it should be 0.4.10 milestone too ;-)
10:59 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, agree on that
10:59 VanessaE sapier: sorry, I didn't take a backtrace that time, but it's probably the same as in #1426 ?
11:00 VanessaE ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1426 )
11:00 sapier oh ... ok chances are very high
11:01 PilzAdam sapier, so do we have a feature freeze now?
11:01 sapier not yet
11:01 sapier the pulls tagged for 0.4.10 are supposed to be merged or delayed before
11:02 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362 is actually deciding how to do it
11:03 PilzAdam #1362 should be delayed; why is "low-priority" in a milestone anyway?
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11:03 sapier I don't consider this to be related ... but I think same as you there's no common opinion how it should look like by now
11:04 PilzAdam maybe add a bunch of light tables and add a config option for people to test them?
11:04 sapier right after 0.4.10 release?
11:05 PilzAdam yes
11:05 sapier sounds like a good idea
11:05 sapier I'm gonna comment and move it to 0.4.11
11:06 PilzAdam I don't think merging something big like #1408 one week before a release is a good idea
11:07 sapier android patch? it's tested for 4 weeks now and doesn't change core features
11:08 sapier most of that code is android only not even run on pc version (huge parts not even compiled)
11:08 PilzAdam why isnt it merged already then?
11:08 sapier it's on my list for today
11:08 RealBadAngel was supposed as last thing to merge before freezing
11:11 sapier those parts of that patch really changing core are already merged, it's been about 90% of my commit the last 8 weeks
11:11 sapier only thing left are the android specific changes
11:21 VanessaE besides which, we need the android patch for 0.4.10
11:21 VanessaE buildcraft has been eating our lunch for months.
11:21 VanessaE and it's killing servers' usage/popularity
11:22 VanessaE (well for any current server anyway)
11:28 RealBadAngel if serialize/deserialize handles different number of parameters (reports other version of client/server used) is there a need for version bump?
11:30 sapier if it doesn't break old client nor new clients have issues connecting to old server  ... no
11:32 RealBadAngel i just fixed the 2nd case, but older clients will be informed that server is newer and wont be able to join
11:32 sapier in this case it's a version bump
11:32 sapier if they can join but may not have all features it's not necessary
11:33 RealBadAngel all is about special tiles count, which was previously set to 2
11:33 sapier you did increase didn't you?
11:33 RealBadAngel yes, i made it 6
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11:34 sapier so old clients will ignore the additional 6 ones?
11:34 sapier 4
11:34 RealBadAngel no, they do check the fixed size
11:34 RealBadAngel hold on
11:35 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/nodedef.cpp#L321
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11:37 sapier that'd be a 0.5 then
11:37 RealBadAngel so if server will send there a node that uses all 6, client will stop
11:38 RealBadAngel no crash, just a message
11:38 sapier I'd prefere if you did find another way to do this
11:38 sapier it'd defintively 0.5 if you do it that way
11:38 sapier no crash doesn't help anyone if there's no connect too
11:39 RealBadAngel it helps, it let the player know that he has outdated game
11:39 sapier that doesn't change the result ... he can't play
11:40 RealBadAngel hmm, i may limit the usage to 2 as previously and add 6 for next release
11:40 RealBadAngel which i was planned anyway for another drawtype
11:40 sapier changing that number is 0.5
11:40 sapier so if next one is 0.4.11 this has to keep out
11:40 RealBadAngel there wont be any other way since its not flexible, its damn hardcoded
11:41 RealBadAngel fucking 2 and others get outta here
11:41 sapier yes I know it's not your error
11:41 sapier could you add those as additional param?
11:41 RealBadAngel not so easily as using existing structures
11:41 sapier make the length 2 param legacy and use the 6 field variant
11:42 nore isn't it possible to do a protocol bump?
11:42 sapier better don't do it hardcoded this time
11:42 sapier no
11:42 RealBadAngel u8 count = readU8(is);
11:42 RealBadAngel for(u32 i=0; i<count; i++)
11:42 sapier basicaly it's a bump min protocol up to current ... and that's 0.5
11:42 RealBadAngel i just changed it to be like ^^
11:43 RealBadAngel so the client reads what server sends
11:43 RealBadAngel be it 2 or 6, whatever
11:43 nore wait, it's not possible to make server send only 2 textures if client is too old, and 6 if it's recent enough?
11:44 RealBadAngel too much trouble imho
11:45 RealBadAngel if we will put such code on each corner soon mt will consist 90% of old clients checks :P
11:45 sapier it can be done that way nore but that's gonna cause endless if then else cascades in packet processing
11:46 RealBadAngel sapier, imho if it asks nicely player to get new build it doesnt really need a protocol bump
11:46 sapier we do
11:46 sapier if you can't connect that's definitivley incompatible and thus a major issue
11:47 RealBadAngel ok
11:47 RealBadAngel im removing that feature from glasslike by now
11:47 RealBadAngel theres no way then to use it
11:47 sapier as 0.5 is already talked about for some time I'd not consider this to be a no go but it'd delay the frames if you do it that way
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11:49 RealBadAngel frames doesnt need that feature badly, but it will make it more flexible
11:50 RealBadAngel ive put it into there because i didnt knew that its so badly hardcoded in serialize/deserialize
11:50 sapier ok
11:51 RealBadAngel so im gonna add it back later on, together with new features
11:51 sapier sounds good
11:52 RealBadAngel anyway proposed check change should be merged now imho, into 0.4.10
11:52 RealBadAngel just read the server sent value instead of hardcoded one
11:53 sapier yes but that's gonna help for 0.5 only too .. at least it won't be forgotten then
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11:53 RealBadAngel it wont cause 0.4.10 be outdated as old clients are now
11:54 RealBadAngel i will make it separate pull out of it
11:54 celeron55_ you guys could start a 0.5 branch and put those kind of things in there already waiting for the move to it, also merging 0.4 head to it periodically
11:55 celeron55_ without this kind of transition nobody will ever make it
11:56 sapier VanessaE did you get my message about reviewing those english texts I added?
11:56 VanessaE no, I'm sorry I did not
11:57 sapier https://github.com/sapier/minetest/blob/a​ndroid_merge_branch_21/doc/README.android AND https://github.com/sapier/minetest/blo​b/android_merge_branch_21/src/game.cpp L1003+
11:58 sapier guess there's something left to do :-)
11:58 celeron55_ also, don't fall into this "a version bumb fixes everything" trap all the time; a version bump doesn't fix anything, it's just a tool to allow fixes and gradual compatibility drops in the future
11:58 celeron55_ except that some parts of minetest are broken and the versions cannot be used for anything
12:01 celeron55_ bump*
12:02 VanessaE sapier: ok, working...
12:05 RealBadAngel celeron55_, so what do you think, if serialize/deserialize can handle the exception, and informs player to get newer client, should there be version bump or not?
12:09 celeron55_ if you can't add a feature without breaking compatibility with old clients, then you can't add it in 0.4
12:09 celeron55_ breaking compatibility = old client cannot connect
12:09 celeron55_ you can't choose it by any simple rule like the one you now described
12:12 RealBadAngel ok
12:13 RealBadAngel so im removing now usage of more than 2 special tiles
12:13 celeron55_ often the only way to achieve this is to make the server produce different serialization for old and new clients
12:14 celeron55_ in my opinion we should have a strong framework to do that anywhere and gradually drop support for the oldest ones because it would benefit users and development
12:14 celeron55_ but if it's going to be hacks everywhere then it's not worth it
12:14 RealBadAngel do we have a way to check version of client before we attempt to send anything?
12:15 sapier didn't you recently do some work in this direction celeron?
12:15 celeron55_ RealBadAngel: yes, it's called the protocol version
12:15 celeron55_ RealBadAngel: but if it's voxel data, then it's the mapblock version
12:15 RealBadAngel so it doesnt help me
12:15 RealBadAngel because we wont  have protocol bump now
12:16 celeron55_ those two are the master versions that the server can use to pick and choose which version of data to send to the client
12:16 celeron55_ and they are negotiated at connection time to something that the server and the client supports
12:16 celeron55_ RealBadAngel: of course we can have
12:16 celeron55_ it's the tool to make these work in the first place
12:16 RealBadAngel at least sapier dont want it ;)
12:17 celeron55_ sapier was thinking we don't want to add that compatibility code to the server
12:17 celeron55_ i don't know if we want to
12:17 sapier I'd not be against adding a clean framework like you suggested but for what I've seen in code it's usually hacks not a clean mechanism by now
12:18 celeron55_ is it bad if we have them and just drop them all simultaneously at 0.5?
12:19 sapier yes and add a clean mechanism
12:19 celeron55_ that's a bit optimistic but dropping them is trivial
12:20 sapier true but that's just gonna cause them to build up till 0.6 ... of course that'd be a way to handle it too :)
12:21 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1420 any opinions to merging this prior 0.4.10 release too?
12:22 VanessaE sapier: https://github.com/sapier/minetest/pull/2
12:25 sapier always good to have a native speaker at hands ;-)
12:25 VanessaE sapier: the wording for in-game usage (game.cpp) seems okay to me.
12:26 sapier that's been tricky as there's not very much room to display text
12:27 VanessaE you may wanna run the result through an editor and check for line lengths, I just edited it online.
12:27 sapier ok I'll check
12:28 celeron55_ i suggest that we don't fear adding that compatibility code to the network protocol, but also anyone can freely remove it (if done cleanly) for old clients given that there always exists two interoperable most recent stable minor versions (i.e. latest HEAD has to always be network-cross-compatible with the latest stable but not with anything else)
12:29 celeron55_ this requires a protocol bump with each release, so be sure to always do that; bumping extra times doesn't hurt as long as it's just the protocol version number
12:30 celeron55_ this is also reasonably easy to test; just make a stable server and connect with HEAD, and make a HEAD server and connect with stable; if they work, it's fine and releaseable
12:31 celeron55_ (releaseable with a version bump! otherwise things to bad the next time)
12:31 celeron55_ and this is for the network protocol; the mapblock version is a different story
12:32 sapier hmm I'm not sure if calling this network protocol is correct seems more like packet format to me
12:33 celeron55_ i call it the (high-level) network protocol; the underlying low-level protocol is relatively static and is almost never discussed about
12:33 celeron55_ don't change the terminology for no reason
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12:35 celeron55_ does someone disagree with this suggestion? if so, please tell why so
12:38 sapier you're right changing names doesn't help as long as everyone is aware what we're talking about
12:49 VanessaE sapier: check asl's comments on that pull btw
12:49 VanessaE he caught a few brain-o's in my changes :)
12:54 VanessaE RealBadAngel: give up.  the server already deleted you.
12:54 RealBadAngel lol
12:54 RealBadAngel im testing glasslike framed on your server
12:54 VanessaE (still had the log open)
12:54 VanessaE use the Survival server instead.
12:54 VanessaE it's still behaving okay.
12:55 sapier seems like ShadowNinja is hiding ;)
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13:09 RealBadAngel VanessaE, why intllib isnt installed on your servers?
13:11 VanessaE cuz I speak english? :)
13:11 VanessaE intllib isn't needed if you don't need to translate to some other language afaik?
13:12 RealBadAngel but technic and UI does have translations
13:14 VanessaE as do some of my mods, but if the server's language is english, then intllib won't do anything
13:14 VanessaE the translations happen server-side, not client-side, unless something has changed that I don't know about.
13:14 RealBadAngel i will check that
13:15 sapier no change for what I know too
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13:42 RealBadAngel sapier, ive removed problematic feature, also tested the changes on older servers
13:42 RealBadAngel everythin seems to be fine
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13:54 sapier thatÄs good
13:54 sapier VanessaE I merged your suggestions can you check I didn't miss something?
13:55 sapier https://github.com/sapier/minetest/commit​/495374bc265d77ad6584feec49a12d352553c25a
13:55 VanessaE did you catch asl's comments?
13:55 sapier yes
13:56 VanessaE I'll check in a few mins.
13:56 sapier thanks
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14:39 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1420 anyone against merging?
14:39 Kalista getting a bunch of errors relating to "std::isdigit" in utils/string.h as <locale> (also not included in the .cpp) requires two arguments
14:40 sapier latest git?
14:40 sapier what compiler do you use?
14:40 Kalista latest git, msvc2012
14:40 Kalista compiled the git with mingw32
14:40 Kalista cmaked to msvc
14:41 sapier most likely some incompatibility between irrlicht isdigit and c++ isdigit can you post the errors?
14:41 Kalista sure
14:41 sapier not here but in pastebin or a similar service of course :)
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14:45 Kalista http://pastebin.com/5TgtzgSd
14:45 Kalista hehe was already in pastebin before you said it ;)
14:46 sapier can you try adding #include <cctype> on top of string.h?
14:46 Kalista sure
14:49 Kalista Nice debugging! Fixed that issue, now just getting minetest\src\profiler.h(76): error C2039: 'max' : is not a member of 'std' but dare say adding <algorithim> to it should solve it, will report back
14:51 Kalista Yup fixed profiler with that now just have 'LNK1181: cannot open input file 'libIrrlicht.dll.a.lib'minetest\build\src\LINK' which im guessing i guess was a cmake issue that i can fix in project settings
14:52 sapier ok I'm gonna fix those two issues an push them to master
14:53 VanessaE sapier:  I missed one;  * inventory_image_hack: case your inventory items are messed up, try setting this to true  --->  * inventory_image_hack: if your inventory items are messed up, try setting this to true.
14:54 sapier ok fixed
14:54 Kalista Great to hear sapier :) , albeit I dont mind compiling under linux which im guessing does fall into those same problems its good to have the source working for both OS
14:55 Kalista *doesnt
14:56 sapier as we support both it's supposed to do, but occasionlly windows build is broken due to only a few ppl testing it
14:56 VanessaE line 97, ...are different tutorials on the web how to do it  -->  ...are different tutorials on the web explaining how to do it
14:58 VanessaE line 29,  * tap on an empty slot: if you selected a stack already that stack is placed here  --> add a comma after "already".
14:58 VanessaE that should about cover it.
14:59 Kalista oo if your doing a readme update please change supported irrlict version to 1.72 instead of 1.71 as 1.71 does not compile with it
15:00 VanessaE Kalista: Android-specific readme :)
15:00 Kalista ahh ;P
15:04 RealBadAngel one stupid question, where the fuck mt saves now screenshots???
15:05 RealBadAngel huh, found them
15:06 sapier I've same problem that's why I always use ksnapshot ;-) ... well and because I always forget what key does screenshot
15:08 Kalista ok so school me on some crosss OS linkage, your handy shell script gets all the dependencies and converts all but luajit,irrlict,libvorbis,libogg & leveldb from linux style .a libs to MS style .libs, now if I am to compile the project under MSVC I will need to go and compile aforementioned librabies into windows .lib files yeah?
15:09 Kalista (as i ended up with libIrrlicht.dll.a where the libIrrlict.lib should be)
15:09 sapier http://dev.minetest.net/Build_Win32_min​etest_including_all_required_libraries this is how I did it but not sure it's still valid
15:10 sapier "Run CMake GUI and configure correctly"  hmm might not help that much
15:13 Kalista what confuses me is why i ended up with the correct libs for gettext, openal, curl, zlib & freetype but not the aforementioned
15:14 Kalista i'll just build msvc libs for those that didnt work, but odd.
15:15 VanessaE RealBadAngel: and why the fuck doesn't MT used a sane timestamp on said screenshots? :P
15:15 VanessaE use*
15:17 Kalista thats a good guide though sapier, wish I found that before I spend half the day getting to this point ;)
15:18 sapier :-)
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15:23 Kalista you dont happen to have a precompiled libs archive handy do you lol? save me a bit of time..
15:23 RealBadAngel so, can i merge #1428 now?
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15:25 RealBadAngel Kalista, grab windows build made by others
15:25 RealBadAngel they do have all the needed libs
15:26 VanessaE bbl
15:27 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=3
15:27 Kalista >:D nice as much as I love spending the night in ming32 im at the point where i just need 4 different libs :P
15:29 sapier I'm pushing the osx fixes soon ... seems like 0.4.10 will be first version to work on apple devices too ... not sure if that's a good thing but as it's there ;-)
15:30 RealBadAngel cool, new env, new bugs, all are happy ;)
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15:31 sapier we don't provide a build for it so it's basically unsupported ... same as leveldb redis and android mips and x86 (althou we're gonna provide a build for later two ... but marked as unsupported)
15:39 RealBadAngel huh, i just figured out who touched smooth lighting lately
15:39 RealBadAngel nore are you here?
15:43 sapier VanessaE I'm gonna change server message proccessing to drop peers if they don't have a valid playersao or player any longer ... that's not supposed to happen but in case it happens it shouldn't spam logs
15:45 RealBadAngel sapier, are u ok with 1428 now?
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15:47 sapier let's give it a try
15:47 sapier merge it
15:47 RealBadAngel ok
15:47 sapier hmm and next fix the doc ;-)
15:47 RealBadAngel what about docs?
15:48 sapier a drawtype not described in api doesn't help anyone ;-)
15:51 RealBadAngel i tried once to put there a description about it, then some1 (propably PA) said thats not the place for such things
15:52 RealBadAngel api says: "Look for examples in games/minimal or games/minetest_game."
15:53 sapier hmm
15:53 sapier we have to create a new issue ... split api doc to multiple files
15:54 RealBadAngel only nodebox is described here, a bit
15:57 RealBadAngel or at least make new file on drawtypes
15:57 VanessaE sapier: ok
15:58 PilzAdam sapier, we had a discussion about splitting lua_api.txt a while ago
15:58 PilzAdam IIRC the solution was to not split it and create a dev wiki
15:58 sapier noone realy maintains dev wiki
15:59 PilzAdam HybridDog does
16:00 sapier hmm
16:00 hmmmm hey RealBadAngel, were you aware that irrlicht has a function to create a normal map from a height map?
16:00 hmmmm http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/c​lassirr_1_1video_1_1_i_video_driver.ht​ml#a6470e31c1aaf2c0fa5e5a5b3f8f092e0
16:00 hmmmm could be useful I think
16:00 RealBadAngel yes i am aware of it
16:00 RealBadAngel its pretty obscure
16:00 hmmmm you were creating normal maps from GIMP, no?
16:01 RealBadAngel i made way better version of it, and not going to use it
16:01 hmmmm OK
16:01 RealBadAngel because of simple fact
16:01 RealBadAngel nowadays PC has not enough memory ;)
16:02 RealBadAngel when i wanted to create normalmaps for each texture HDX and VanessaE servers are using...
16:03 hmmmm oh.. =/
16:03 RealBadAngel if we wasnt multiplicating each and every texture with [^ it could be possible propably to use it
16:05 RealBadAngel but atm on-the-fly method is only reasonable solution
16:06 sapier I'm rebasing android patch for merge right now so any comments PRIOR merge would save some work ;-)
16:08 RealBadAngel hmmmm, and irrlicht for makin normal maps would require files with heightmaps
16:09 RealBadAngel so using it would be even worse, number of textures * 3 (original texture + heightmap texture + normal texture)
16:09 sapier who's gonna write the changelog? ;-)
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16:33 VanessaE RealBadAngel: testing the plasma lamp update for homedecor...
16:34 RealBadAngel dont use "use_texture_alpha =  true" by now
16:34 RealBadAngel it works only with shaders enabled
16:35 Exio4 shaders > noshaders
16:35 VanessaE doesn't work at all apparently.
16:35 RealBadAngel that option for materials is fucked up without shaders
16:35 RealBadAngel im workin on solution
16:35 VanessaE I've updated to git HEAD and the code and texture you gave me simply does nothing.
16:35 RealBadAngel hold on, makin a repo with examples
16:35 VanessaE (all I get is an empty gold-colored frame)
16:35 LemonLake is this https://github.com/RealBadAngel/plasma_lamp?
16:35 RealBadAngel yes
16:36 LemonLake ah
16:37 RealBadAngel uploaded
16:37 LemonLake VanessaE: did you rightclick it?
16:37 LemonLake or power it with mesecons
16:38 LemonLake RealBadAngel: this is going to save me so much time, thanks :D
16:38 VanessaE the code I'm using does not depend on right-click or mesecons power.
16:38 RealBadAngel the one in example is using mesecons
16:39 LemonLake RealBadAngel: how did you generate plasma_storm.png?
16:39 RealBadAngel i found some gif animation and reworked it
16:39 LemonLake ah
16:39 LemonLake also, how did you do the tanks?
16:40 RealBadAngel first, glasslike_framed to display objects needs 2 or 3 textures in tiles
16:40 RealBadAngel 1st texture is used for frames
16:40 LemonLake mhm
16:40 RealBadAngel 2nd (for all the glass faces)
16:40 LemonLake and 3rd?
16:41 RealBadAngel if 3rd is given, it means its top/bottom face, and 2nd is used for side faces
16:41 LemonLake okay, and how did you do the 'scaling' is what I wanna know?
16:42 RealBadAngel now, in special tiles, you define texture for the interior volume
16:42 RealBadAngel by now same for all the cube faces
16:42 RealBadAngel it can be animated
16:42 LemonLake okay
16:43 RealBadAngel behaviour of the glasslike_framed node is controlled by param2
16:43 LemonLake behaviour?
16:43 RealBadAngel most significant bits (128 + 64) are controlling mergeing of the nodes
16:43 Sokomine any news on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/944 ? seems kahrl and nore commented, but nothing was decided/planned yet? it is a pretty major bug
16:44 RealBadAngel true (set to 1) means disable mergeing
16:45 RealBadAngel 128 - controls horizontal merge, 64 vertical
16:45 LemonLake okay
16:45 RealBadAngel rest of the bits (values 0 .. 63) are level of interior volume
16:45 LemonLake so 2-63 are the significant values here?
16:46 VanessaE there we go, got it
16:46 VanessaE that swap_node() call is the critical part
16:46 VanessaE if you don't set param2 when placing, you will never see the effect.
16:46 RealBadAngel i tried to put param2 in nodedef but it doesnt work for some reason
16:47 LemonLake so rba, if I set it to 32 || 64, this would fill it halfway
16:47 RealBadAngel LemonLake, bits 0-5 level, bit 6 - disable/enable V mergeing, bit 7 - disable/enable H mergeing
16:48 LemonLake ahh i see
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16:48 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack/c​ommit/57ecac2baaa17904590547448b60a8e4ae1bbe87
16:48 VanessaE here's the easiest way to do it if you just want an always-on lamp that doesn't depend on mesecons or right click or whatever
16:49 RealBadAngel for example filled node is 63, disable all mergeing = 64 + 128, so param2 = 63+64+128 = 255
16:49 LemonLake okay
16:49 LemonLake I get it now
16:49 LemonLake 4 steps per pixel (on 16x160
16:50 LemonLake I like this, good work
16:50 RealBadAngel if you will want tanks that do merge only vertically, set 6th bit always to 0, and 7th to 1
16:50 VanessaE RealBadAngel: this needs to be carefully documented in the lua_api.txt
16:50 RealBadAngel yes, but not there
16:50 LemonLake it would be useful info for the wiki for sure
16:50 RealBadAngel we need new file on drawtypes just
16:51 RealBadAngel and the wiki too ofc
16:52 LemonLake so, a half-filled tank would be 31 + 128 = 159
16:53 RealBadAngel yes
16:53 RealBadAngel note that volume is not controlled by engine
16:54 RealBadAngel if you want your liquids to spread in connected tanks, you have to take care bout it
16:54 LemonLake well duh
16:57 LemonLake why would the engine do that anyway?
16:58 Exio4 \o/
16:58 RealBadAngel i just wanted it to be clear ;)
16:59 LemonLake so, does framed glass actually connect to other glass?
17:00 RealBadAngel no it doesnt, it connects only to self
17:00 RealBadAngel and when it is allowed to do so
17:00 sapier I'm about to merge #1408 ... final call for comments
17:01 RealBadAngel so you may have single node containers or giant pools or tanks towers
17:01 LemonLake good work +sapier
17:01 LemonLake that's my comment
17:02 LemonLake okay
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17:15 sapier Everyone ready to declare feature freeze?
17:15 RealBadAngel im ok with it
17:16 sapier ok how to change topic in here?
17:16 VanessaE what about your android patch?
17:16 RealBadAngel its in
17:16 sapier https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/commits/master
17:16 VanessaE ok, I missed that.
17:16 VanessaE in that case, freeze it up.
17:16 sapier It's just been done ;-)
17:16 ShadowNinja sapier: There are still issues with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1408 (I'm still reading backlog and notifications BTW, so I might not respond for a while...)
17:17 sapier april 21st ... not it's june 29th ...
17:17 VanessaE ShadowNinja: fix ShadowBot :(
17:17 RealBadAngel ok, now im back to hunt that damn bug with use_texture_alpha
17:18 sapier I fixed all fixable with reasonable amount of work ShadowNinja
17:20 Topic for #minetest-dev is now 0.4.10 feature freeze | Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
17:20 sapier thanks celeron
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17:23 VanessaE bbl
17:23 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1389 sfan5 seems like you already know what's happening there, do you know how to fix it too?
17:26 sfan5 sapier: add install() commands for ZLIB_DLL and FREETYPE_DLL
17:26 sapier sounds like a simple fix
17:26 sfan5 it is
17:27 RealBadAngel btw, nodeboxes are still "experimental" ? :)
17:28 sapier don't we require curl too?
17:28 sfan5 curl dll is already installed
17:29 sapier ahh there
17:31 sapier https://gist.github.com/sa​pier/720b451a729d28cca0c5 this way sfan5?
17:32 sfan5 sapier: yes
17:33 sapier ok then I'm gonna merge it that way as I can't test it
17:34 Kalista sfan5 for some reason your buildwin64 buildbot builds linux lib files instead of msvc, is this intentional for dev under linux with porting exe to windows?
17:34 sfan5 Kalista: .a is not strictly linux
17:34 sapier isn't buildwin64 mingw build?
17:34 sfan5 .a is just a collection of .o files
17:35 Kalista Ok interesting info, so can MSVC compile with them?
17:35 sfan5 buildwin does this too
17:35 sfan5 I'm not sure
17:36 sapier I don't think so msvc requires .lib files for libraries for what I know
17:36 Kalista ahh thats the issue I was running into, msvc10-13 couldnt seem to read .a's
17:36 sfan5 you likely need different libs because of MSVC != MinGW anyway
17:36 Kalista I have mingw I just liike the MSVC IDE
17:36 LemonLake so 0.4.10 is coming today?
17:37 Kalista for window development codeblocks likely supports .a files then i would guess
17:37 sfan5 code::blocks uses MinGW IIRC
17:37 Kalista great info thanks
17:37 sfan5 LemonLake: not today but probably in the week 30.06 -- 06.07
17:38 LemonLake coolio
17:38 Kalista im at the point where im 2 libs away from having it working in msvc13 but if problematic errors pop up after these two i might make my way to codeblocks
17:38 sapier 1 issue left to milestone 0.4.10
17:39 Kalista sapier is it the hitbox deslection by any chance? as in hitting another player then rehitting them doesnt register unless you retarget their AABB
17:40 Kalista once i have my project files up and running im keen to find the cause
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17:40 sapier sorry don't understand what you wanna tell me
17:40 sapier can you try to explain it a different way?
17:40 sfan5 Kalista: CMake can generate Code::Blocks project files
17:40 Kalista https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=9530
17:41 Kalista (link to the bug) - probably best explained there
17:41 Kalista i havent tested the issue with latest dev build but two days ago was encountering it with pre-built bins
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17:59 ShadowNinja I also update the dev wiki. (and I'm the section maintainer for decumentation)
17:59 ShadowNinja And not hiding, I've just been busy.
18:00 sapier I'm checking current pull requests for things to be merged right after 0.4.10 release
18:02 ShadowNinja I updated the changelog last, but I/d appreciate it if I wasn't the only one updating it.  Last update took over an hour.  It doesn't need to be updated on every commit, but a update every 20 commits or so is good.
18:03 kahrl are there any remaining blockers/issues that you guys need my input on? because I'll be pretty much gone the next few days
18:03 sapier one potentiall blocker
18:03 sapier we still don't know why those players objects are missing
18:03 sapier my fix does only reduce the side effects
18:04 kahrl hmm, I don't really know how the system was changed in the commit that made it not load all players all the time
18:04 kahrl so not sure I can really help with that
18:05 sapier me too so it's best to be checked by ShadowNinja hopfully it's just something always present before but we haven't noticed by now
18:05 kahrl s/load/keep ... loaded
18:08 sapier RealBadAngel: 1428 is the incompatible part?
18:08 ShadowNinja VanessaE: ShadowBot should be back in a day or so.
18:09 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1409 Ive deleted protocol bump flag from this one I don't think we need a different protocol to implement it
18:10 RealBadAngel sapier, just forgot to close it
18:10 RealBadAngel the problematic code stays on my hdd for future use
18:13 ShadowNinja sapier: The player and it's SAO were tied together in an ugly way before, the SAO sets the per_id to 0, which the code used to check if players were connected.  (there are a few "for (const &player : players) { if (player.peer_id == 0) continue;..." loops in the code)  However deleting players instead of just changing their peer ID probably makes this issue more apparent.
18:14 ShadowNinja Aaaand done reading backlog.  :-)
18:15 sapier I already expected this to be a old bug becoming more present right now but for what I understood VanessaE this causes trouble
18:15 ShadowNinja Note: Please don't make the feature freeze really short and make a release before it's ready like with 0.4.9.  Allow >3 days, but no more than a week.
18:15 Kalista is sha1.cpp ment to have so much commented out? getting compile errors with it: http://pastebin.com/aX6hNx0T
18:16 sapier I thought about doing official release next weekend
18:16 sapier gues it's enough time for some custom builds to check current version
18:17 RealBadAngel and enough time to hunt some bugs
18:17 kahrl Kalista: where did you download the source from?
18:18 kahrl (your sha1.cpp is different from mine, mine has a copyright statement at the top and the comment ends after that)
18:19 RealBadAngel sapier, why 1304 wasnt merged?
18:20 sapier because it's not been tested
18:20 Kalista kharl - spot on, i remved the copyright as its just for internal testing and not comemercial/publically avaliable, guess I msised a line
18:20 * Kalista blames xanax
18:20 sapier and I'm not exactly sure if it's correct
18:21 sapier works for me but I've become carefully once irrlicht is involved
18:21 RealBadAngel i can check it out
18:22 Kalista god there is so much can i say 'bad' code in irrlict without offending anyone?  Im sorry but overridin STD functions due to lazyness is just /headthunk
18:22 ShadowNinja Kalista: Why remove the copyright lines?  That's questionably legal, although it's probably fine if it's for your eyes only.
18:23 sapier oops
18:23 Kalista Shadow - honestly, its 18 lines of stuff i need to scroll through on every header, i need to optimize my work environment..
18:24 kahrl ShadowNinja: perhaps he has a license to kill the copyright lines :D
18:24 sapier Kalista: you're not allowed to remove it according to the license
18:24 Kalista If it was one line with a link to a website of file on disk i'd be happy to keep it
18:24 Kalista sapier - if this was being publiched fora anyone but myself i'd put it all back in
18:25 sapier ok true as long as you keep it for yourself it's fine
18:25 Kalista i respect the community effort, even made a contribution tonight
18:26 ShadowNinja Kalista: Bah, 18 lines out of 5000 lines is nothing.
18:28 sapier we've got one week to decide about what games to add to official build ... seems like it's gonna be minetest minetest_next and carbon
18:28 sapier as minetest is set and the other ones are the only games with more then one vote right now
18:29 ShadowNinja technic_game?
18:29 ShadowNinja Where's the voting?
18:29 sapier https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=15&amp;t=9116
18:29 sapier I'm mentioning it every now and then on minetest but doesn't really help
18:30 sapier and right now theres only minetest_next nodetest and carbone available for vote too
18:30 sapier https://forum.minetest.net​/viewtopic.php?pid=138276
18:30 ShadowNinja Nodetopia?
18:31 Calinou <Kalista> kharl - spot on, i remved the copyright as its just for internal testing and not comemercial/publically avaliable, guess I msised a line
18:31 Calinou what are you planning to do?
18:32 sapier we need a voting feature in forum :-)
18:32 Calinou there are polls
18:32 Calinou but people vote without justifying as usual
18:32 ShadowNinja How about a July 6th release date for 0.4.10?
18:32 sapier I'd suggest build at 6th .. and add 2 silent days prior official release at sunday
18:33 Calinou July 6th is my 3rd Minetest birthday
18:33 Calinou \o/
18:33 Calinou (means I started playing it 3 years ago)
18:33 kahrl 2880 minutes of silence?
18:34 sapier eclipse has a full week for what I remember
18:34 kahrl Calinou: early congrats! :)
18:35 Calinou thanks
18:35 sapier right now I'm gonna make android version to default to minetest_next
18:37 Calinou can you change it easily?
18:37 sapier no
18:38 Calinou :/
18:38 sapier android version isn't supposed to have all features but only a limited subset
18:39 sapier at least right now, case user feedback tells they want all the complex things that might change for next version
18:40 Calinou intentional restrictions aren't fun and go against Minetest's spirit
18:41 sapier you're always free to design a simple yet fully featured menu
18:41 sapier it's lua so it's not that complicated
18:42 sapier yet the current version tries to keep it simple having everything you need to play on a single tab
18:43 Calinou ah
18:44 sapier you can even enable the pc menu on changing the config file ... but wont work on most phones ... some tablets may be big enough
18:55 celeron55 i'm going to try to make a suggestion for the games; the voting and game listing was fairly dead back then when i made the forum topics so i don't really consider them authoritative
18:56 celeron55 (altough, maybe i won't be able to convince any extra subgame developer to this... we will see)
18:57 Krock why is it required to bundle a game? players can download one if they wish
18:57 sapier minetest game is basically dead
18:57 celeron55 so that new players have something good to start with
18:57 celeron55 minetest_game is too outdated for that purpose; it paints a bad picture of the thing
18:58 celeron55 one thing i am sure about: only one "minetest_game successor" can get in; we need to somehow choose which is the one
18:59 celeron55 having many of those is just redundant from the new player's perspective
18:59 Krock for new players, carbone or nodetest might be interesting
19:00 Krock </myview>
19:00 sapier problem about carbon would be we can't use it as default on android
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19:01 Calinou crashes on load? too heavy?
19:01 celeron55 of course those making builds can do whatever they want if they don't like the recommended ones, or if they are not suitable for some reason for their thing
19:01 Calinou minetest_next is more of the real successor to minetest_game
19:01 sapier and nodetest is GPLv3 ... not sure if we can put it in our official package
19:02 Calinou it suffers from behaving like Debian stable though, players may regard it poorly
19:02 Krock subgames != minetest core, every license should be okay for a subgame
19:02 sapier once we create a package and distibute it that's a topic for lawyers to decide ;-)
19:02 Calinou nothing wrong with that, sapier
19:02 Calinou as long as it's free/libre
19:03 celeron55 it's actually a real problem
19:03 Calinou only problem is App Store on iOS not allowing GPL, but probably not allowing LGPL anyway
19:03 sapier hmm actually you're right it'd just be our binary package
19:03 sapier for what I know noone is writinga ios port (by now)
19:04 celeron55 http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments​/223c4l/old_engines_id_tech_i_ii/cgiz48o
19:04 Calinou ehm, /r/gamedev
19:04 celeron55 everyone read this before continuing
19:04 Calinou the GPL-engine whine is enough
19:04 Krock *fine
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19:04 celeron55 hmm, altough, actually the situation is the reverse here
19:04 Krock joined #minetest-dev
19:05 celeron55 so it means arguably this is legal, when the other way around is practically never legal
19:05 sapier gues it'd not be a problem anyway even if our code is gplified the base is not affected
19:06 Calinou “gplified”…
19:06 celeron55 "That is to say: If your users were to take away the non-GPL binary, the GPLed code must remain not only functional, but also fully useful for its intended purpose."
19:07 celeron55 this one is the most gray point
19:07 celeron55 everything else is fine
19:07 Krock you can ignore warnings too. you can ignore gray zones
19:08 celeron55 under this point falls all GPL software running under windows and other closed systems too
19:08 celeron55 so almost everyone is breaking it in that way, assuming this even is an actual limitation in GPL
19:10 celeron55 i don't know... maybe we should ask FSF or someone
19:10 Calinou #fsf or #gnu are happy to answer
19:10 Calinou (prove you wrong?)
19:10 Calinou more often than not, they succeed
19:20 ShadowNinja sapier: Channels aren't really used much. The channel priority thing hasn't actually ever been implemented and probably never will.  -- I beleive you implemented this.  Can you update http://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol if so?
19:21 ShadowNinja Also, TOSERVER_INIT=0x10, but https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt#L95 uses 0x01 and works?
19:22 sapier I'll check if this is worth fixing or better should be deleted
19:22 sfan5 ShadowNinja: it sends an empty packet
19:22 ShadowNinja buf = "\x4f\x45\x74\x03\x00\x00\x00\x01" -- <Protocol ID=0x4f457403> <Peer ID=0> <Channel=0> <Command=1>
19:22 sfan5 no TOSERVER_INIT
19:22 sfan5 command is u16
19:23 ShadowNinja sfan5: That's valid?  O_O
19:23 sapier there's more wrong about it, it's not been updated for ages
19:23 sapier it's been outdated long before I fixed it
19:23 sfan5 <Protocol ID=0x4f457403> <Peer ID=0 (not set)> <Channel=0> <Type=1 (Original)>
19:23 sfan5 protocol.txt is correct
19:23 sfan5 ShadowNinja: yes
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19:24 sapier don't rely on protocol.txt ;-)
19:24 ShadowNinja sfan5: Ah, type wasn't mentioned on the dev wiki.
19:24 ShadowNinja sapier: Will you update that please?  :-)
19:24 sapier not for 0.4.10
19:25 Calinou talking about updating… what about updating the colors in colors.txt?
19:25 sfan5 <Calinou> only problem is App Store on iOS not allowing GPL
19:25 sfan5 since when?
19:25 Calinou they're horribly outdated currently
19:25 ShadowNinja sapier: Why not?
19:25 Calinou maybe LGPL is allowed… see VLC
19:25 sapier because it's about 2-3 days of work with doubtable benefit
19:26 sfan5 Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minet​estmapper/blob/master/colors.txt
19:26 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/src/clientiface.h already describes how to do it
19:27 Calinou this one: https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/tree/master/util
19:28 Calinou (update the copy included in minetest/minetest, or remove it, along with the .py)
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19:35 sfan5 pushing in 5 mins: http://sprunge.us/XYja?diff
19:36 Calinou libhiredis, not libredis?
19:36 sfan5 yep
19:36 Calinou what's the difference?
19:36 sfan5 there is no libredis
19:38 sapier not sure if we should promote libredis can you add a note about it being experimental?
19:38 sfan5 it is not experimental
19:38 sapier things crashing on conversion are experimental
19:38 sfan5 I have no report of such issues
19:39 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1340
19:39 sfan5 wtf
19:40 sfan5 Minetest calling the backend with block==NULL is not the backends problem
19:40 sapier seems like the other backends don't have issues?
19:40 sfan5 maybe they do a NULL check, I dunno
19:40 sfan5 anyway, pushing the doc thing now
19:41 sapier that's always a good idea if a pointer is passed ;-)
19:41 sfan5 there is no defined interface for backends
19:41 sapier then the existing ones are the reference
19:41 sfan5 it's not specified whether it may pass a NULL block
19:42 sfan5 it would not make sense to pass a NULL block either, so I'd say it is not allowed to pass a NULL block
19:43 sfan5 leveldb does not have a NULL check
19:43 sapier then I suggest trying to find out why this happens for libredis only
19:43 sfan5 dummy does not
19:43 sfan5 sqlite3 does not
19:44 sfan5 libhiredis*
19:46 sapier still there's no report any of the other backends crashing this way, could be a follow up error caused by something done bad before too
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19:46 sfan5 maybe this has to do with this specific backend too
19:46 sfan5 getBlock is allowed to return NULL
19:46 sfan5 s/backend/map/
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20:37 casimir someone earlier this day complained about nodetest not being LGPL. I now changed the license of the parts I wrote my self, as I wanted to clean up this mix anyway. Hope it is better that way.
20:53 nore joined #minetest-dev
20:56 Calinou ok, but should be LGPL 2.1+, not LGPL 3… casimir left anyway
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22:08 Megaf Was Android build merged to master?
22:08 Megaf ^ RealBadAngel
22:09 RealBadAngel yes, sapier merged it today
22:09 Megaf ok
22:10 Megaf Thanks
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