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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sapier in worst case that driver uses a spinlock to make really sure noone can stop it from waiting
00:00 sapier but that'd be visible in top, you shouldn't have any idle time
00:06 Megaf Well, no matter what, there should be a way to tell
00:07 sapier it is just do top and look if there's something idle
00:09 hmmmm sapier, why is there a daemonize feature anyway?
00:09 hmmmm I feel like it's stupid honestly
00:10 hmmmm that's a job for a shell script to do
00:10 sapier it's been requested
00:10 hmmmm must you implement all features requested?
00:10 sapier no but in situations where implementing is way less work then discussing that's an option ;-)
00:10 hmmmm you're relying on UNIX-specific things which I don't like and it can't be helped in this case... writing for POSIX is the gold standard
00:11 hmmmm like for example /var/run/minetest.pid
00:12 hmmmm what if this runs on a platform that isn't windows but doesn't conform to the filesystem heirarchy standard
00:12 hmmmm does Mac OS X have /var/run????
00:12 sapier right now it's 1:1 if there's another veto I'm just gonna revert it and forget about it because I won't spend any time on installing mac os or writing windows service code
00:12 hmmmm what about weirder unixes like AIX?
00:12 hmmmm and oh god no
00:13 kaeza did anyone complain about it yet?
00:13 hmmmm no no don't make this a service
00:13 sapier anyone using those could just provide the fix
00:13 hmmmm that's insecure
00:13 hmmmm if you're going to daemonize something in Windows by making it a service, at least make it a "NETWORK SERVICE" account (low privilege)
00:14 hmmmm a regular service runs as SYSTEM which is basically root
00:14 sapier usually doing things like that on windows are way more complicated and I don't even have an idea where to start
00:14 hmmmm lots of registry writing
00:15 sapier I wont write it so if we add a new rule that any bonus feature always has to be implemented for all os I'm just gonna drop it ;-)
00:16 hmmmm heh
00:16 sapier we'd have to remove the threadnames too as windows doesn't even support thread names at all ;-)
00:16 hmmmm so like
00:17 hmmmm at least --daemon is an option
00:17 hmmmm people can still choose to redirect output however they'd like (i.e. syslog)
00:17 sapier yes it wouldn't have made sense to do it any different
00:17 sapier it's only an addon if you don't like it you don't have to do anything to keep old behaviour
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00:22 hmmmm hmmmmmm
00:23 hmmmm if you call exit() from a child process doesn't that flush the buffers twice
00:23 hmmmm stdio buffers
00:23 hmmmm you should call _exit() instead if exiting from the child process, except no because _exit() is POSIX, not standard C
00:23 hmmmm standard C would be _Exit(), except that's C99
00:24 hmmmm actually no, can't use _Exit(), it exists in C but not in C++
00:25 hmmmm so i guess _exit() it is
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03:35 * zat pokes hmmmm
03:35 zat :D
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08:09 BlockMen 00:16<sapier> we'd have to remove the threadnames too as windows doesn't even support thread names at all ;-)
08:09 BlockMen ^ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/c00ed9dac3e3bed36ea06d80fc9856927f1cca95 ?
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11:13 sapier BlockMen: do you have any way to see those names without running in debugger? ;-)
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12:45 celeron55 what is the point of a --daemon option?
12:46 LemonLake background process?
12:47 sapier convenience feature of those who don't want to use shell scripts
12:47 celeron55 modern systems recommend to not use such options, for example ubuntu's upstart
12:47 celeron55 even if used as a system-wide thing
12:48 celeron55 adding such options to cause maintenance burden for no benefit is stupid in my opinion
12:49 sapier to be honest I don't care about that option so if you think it should be removed it's 2:1 against it and I'm gonna remove it ... wonder why things always have to be merged for ppl to look at it
12:49 celeron55 s/thing/service/
12:49 VanessaE frankly I didn't see the value in it either.
12:49 LemonLake ^
12:49 VanessaE I thought everyone sane used a keepalive script anyway
12:49 LemonLake haha
12:49 sapier 3:1
12:50 LemonLake who is the 1?
12:50 VanessaE the guy who originally wanted it and hated scripting :P
12:50 LemonLake oh lol
12:50 VanessaE wtf was his name..
12:50 sapier I don't remember but 3 is bigger then 1 so that doesn't actually matter
12:51 kahrl perhaps we could add a keepalive script to util so lazy people don't complain
12:51 LemonLake meh
12:51 kahrl (mark it as unmaintained)
12:51 sfan5 VanessaE: he didn't hate scripting but he said "scripting is hacky"
12:52 celeron55 yes, a script in util/ would work well
12:52 LemonLake sfan5: since when?
12:52 VanessaE ah right
12:52 sapier that feature is last on master any agreement to just reset master back this commit even if it doesn't follow the guidelines?
12:53 sfan5 and "scripting is just to make programs do something they aren't supposed to" was his argument
12:53 LemonLake thats a load of bullshit
12:53 VanessaE that's... the whole G*d damned point of scripting.
12:53 sfan5 lemme find out who said that
12:55 sapier reverted
12:55 sfan5 May 14 20:14:37 <crazyR>lol. come to think of it i have a suggestion.......    what about haveing the minetest server side  install a deamon. 1) makes our lives easier, also gives us the ability to auto restart upon crash without having to use hacky scripts
12:57 sfan5 basically the argument resulted in this:
12:57 sfan5 May 14 21:32:39 <crazyR>there is no argument. IT WAS A SUGGESTION THAT YOU GUIYS OBVIOUSLY DIDNT LIKE, AND DECIDED THAT I MUST BE BELITTLED IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR SMALL MINDS FEEL BETTER
12:57 LemonLake someone is a bit mad
12:58 sfan5 was*
12:58 sfan5 my favourite:
12:58 sfan5 <crazyR>no it not, and no one need to claim it, but when its being run on servers that cost  in exccess of £40 + then it should be looked at as a proffesional application.
12:58 sfan5 </pointless stuff>
13:00 VanessaE oh yeah, somehow because we pay for servers to run this, ergo it must be enterprise-level code.   um, wut?
13:00 sapier no need to continue that discussion it's already removed
13:02 sapier as everyone is here right now comments on #1200 .... exiting formspecs by doubleclicking outside ...
13:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1200 -- Add support for exiting formspecs by doubleclicking outside by sapier
13:03 VanessaE sapier: rubenwardy's comment aside, there is a potential conflict - rapid clicking outside a formspec is used to drop multiple items in rapid succession
13:03 sapier can you drop multiple single items?
13:04 VanessaE yep
13:05 VanessaE except wait, that might be by right-clicking
13:05 VanessaE it's been a while since i last used that feature (+ I'm tired)
13:05 VanessaE ok yeah, right click drops one, left click drops the whole stack normally.
13:07 sapier ok doesn't sound like a conflict to me
13:07 VanessaE until that shift-Q feature got added via the item_tweaks mod, that was really the only sane way to drop single items.  so I take it back, I don't see a usability conflict there as long as the double-click action doesn't stop you from dropping a stack.
13:17 sapier could you try the andorid version? ;-)
13:18 LemonLake I will ^.^
13:18 LemonLake Do I have to compile it manually?
13:19 sapier no I've provided binary packages https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9389
13:20 LemonLake Aww sweet
13:20 LemonLake let me just get my charger
13:22 LemonLake Does it not have reverse landscape?
13:23 LemonLake Okay
13:23 LemonLake I'll give you a screenie, this doesn't look normal
13:24 VanessaE sapier: ok..installing it.
13:24 LemonLake Sapier: The main menu is a bit borked
13:24 LemonLake sapier: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2159​6039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-14-23-59.png
13:25 sapier can you write your findings including what device you have to that thread?
13:25 LemonLake Sure
13:26 sapier seems you have a high dpi device too .. I'm about to improve our "gui_scaling" feature to a state where you can handle those devices by configuring this correct
13:26 LemonLake Yea
13:27 LemonLake oh...
13:27 LemonLake that's DEFINITELY mesed up
13:27 VanessaE sapier: inventory imagery is still messed up, but they aren't white squares anymore - they look like bits and pieces of other inventory images
13:28 LemonLake ^
13:28 sapier VanessaE: hmm then there has to be another issue ... I'm not really surprised
13:28 LemonLake Just white dots with some brown at the bottom right for dirt
13:28 VanessaE lemme get you a screenshot.
13:28 LemonLake https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2159​6039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-14-27-47.png
13:28 LemonLake There's one for ya
13:29 sapier Lemonlake could you post that screenshot and the information about what build you tested to the thread, it's way more easy to find out what's wrong if you have more info
13:29 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/van​essa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/S​creenshot_2014-06-01-09-27-48.png
13:29 LemonLake I am
13:29 LemonLake I'm writing my findings in a document with detailed screenies as I go along
13:30 VanessaE also a double tap outside a formspec seems to work fine for me to exit it, but this does not work to cancel the "esc/pause" menu.
13:30 sapier that's strange
13:30 RealBadAngel sidenote, you know whats messing android's screen the most?
13:30 LemonLake Inventory is badly scaled for me
13:30 RealBadAngel hotbar
13:31 RealBadAngel flip it and bring to another edge
13:31 RealBadAngel it doesnt have to be at bottom at all
13:31 sapier that's even more work then fixing the healthbar so forget about it ;-) and it isn't an issue on most tablets anyway
13:33 sapier because if you want to move around hotbar it's necessary to be a lua bar too ... with all consequences
13:34 LemonLake https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=3&amp;t=9389&amp;p=143606#p143606
13:34 LemonLake hold up, image tag went wrong
13:34 LemonLake fixed
13:35 sapier oh a samsung device again
13:35 VanessaE mine's a Xelio
13:35 VanessaE one of those el-cheapo no-name chinese ones
13:35 sapier yes but spillz seems to have same issue
13:36 sapier I guess it's related to the graphics core built in ... as far as I remember there are only about 3-4 families
13:37 RealBadAngel no
13:37 BlockMen #1349 rebased and ready to merge now
13:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1349 -- Codestyle cleanup (main.cpp) by BlockMen
13:37 BlockMen ^ ShadowNinja
13:37 RealBadAngel i had fucked up inv images on android-x86 too
13:37 LemonLake sapier: did you even test this yourself?
13:39 sapier of course LemonLake and it works quite fine on my device ... see the screenshot ;-P
13:39 LemonLake ah
13:39 VanessaE heh
13:40 sapier that's why I'm collecting infos about other devices because they obviously behave completely different
13:40 sapier -s
13:41 RealBadAngel quite the same as with glsl
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13:42 sapier yes, yesterday I found out andorid emulator claims to support GL_BGRA textures but doesn't actually do ... was hoping that'd be an explanation for those devices with broken inventory textures too ... but no luck
13:43 VanessaE well remember a little while back it worked okay
13:43 VanessaE other than the objects being turned upside down anyway
13:43 sapier that's strange
13:44 sapier ok I don't know what the irrlicht guys do so maybe it's not been something I changed
13:44 VanessaE that last Debug apk you had be try before you stopped calling it that, that one worked.
13:45 VanessaE I have a file date of May 11 on that one
13:45 sapier I don't have the irrlicht source code of that time, but if you can verify it's still this way I could try to build again with current irrlicht
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13:58 sapier LemonLake: Can you add your debug.txt to that information?
13:58 LemonLake No I cannot, sorry
14:00 sapier why not? :-)
14:00 LemonLake Phone died, charger died
14:00 LemonLake And I don't even have it right now
14:00 VanessaE bbl
14:01 sapier sad .. ok guess I'll find another way to find out what that gl extentions that device supports
14:02 sapier lemonlake scaling is done based on dpi but that's not enough
14:03 sapier as you can see on your device scaling to match dpi will couse issues on small screens where you want gui elements smaller then they should be
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14:48 Taoki Hey everyone. I saw some changes regarding 3D stereo mode being added, and this reminded me: Are there any plans for supporting VR headsets, such as Oculur Sift?
14:48 Taoki **Oculus
14:49 Taoki Kind of a hard question since I haven't *fully* understood how those headsets are implemented. I heard the head tracking is detected like a generic joystick, and the lenses as normal video inputs. But it's said most projects have to add code to actually get it working, so yeah
14:50 sapier well theoretically side by side mode should do
14:50 sapier at least if you set fov correct
14:50 Taoki That's good. So the Rift combines standard side-by-side into each lens
14:51 LemonLake I don't think it should be too difficult to implement, however the difficulty is actually getting the devs to agree on it and add it
14:51 sapier I hope so but as I don't have one ... and I wont buy one for sure I can't guarantee
14:51 LemonLake Ditto that
14:52 LemonLake I wouldn't try one either since I get motion sickness, and I've heard that VR headsets can make you throw up within seconds of wearing one
14:52 sapier maybe I'm gonny buy the sony one or samsung ... but for sure not a facebook device
14:52 LemonLake sapier: Android's debug.txt is where?
14:53 sapier /sdcard/Minetest ... or on some devices lokal storage /Minetest
14:54 LemonLake https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2159​6039/Screenshot_2014-06-01-15-53-47.png
14:54 LemonLake Is that what you need?
14:54 sapier yes but I'd prefere in text form ;-)
14:55 LemonLake The screenshot will have to make do, sorry
14:55 sapier I try to find a common reason for those devices ... by now I know it's mali-400 gpu but that's still not specific enough to fix it
14:56 Taoki LemonLake: Considering the Rift uses generic implementations, and not proprietary ones (which would suck), sooner or later it will have to be added. Depending on how common VR headsets will become
14:56 Taoki I'm glad their age is finally beginning though :)
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15:17 * VanessaE is back
15:18 LemonLake k
15:34 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Threadnames only work with MSVC, in the MSVC debugger.  Windows itself doesn't support threadnames, but one of it's compilers supports it (in a horrendously ugly way) with it's custom tools.
15:35 BlockMen ShadowNinja, ok. ic
15:36 BlockMen and are you fine with #1349 now?
15:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1349 -- Codestyle cleanup (main.cpp) by BlockMen
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15:39 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Yep.
15:40 BlockMen good. then i push it now
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16:02 Taoki https://forum.minetest.net/viewtop​ic.php?f=5&amp;t=9424&amp;p=143615 I'd love to see thing being seriously considered sometime, although I'm not sure when and if it might happen...
16:04 ShadowNinja Taoki: constants.h #define BS 5 Then change the adjustment that the cammera does.
16:04 Calinou “Do a smaller cubes”, basically. ;)
16:04 ShadowNinja Yep.
16:05 Calinou what if we just increase player collision radius and eye height, as well as step height?
16:05 Taoki Woah... that's already possible? Could mean we can simply make it an option
16:05 Taoki Calinou: Yes, thaere's more than just llowing block size to be different and that's it
16:05 Calinou (we need a way to change collision box of player)
16:05 Calinou Taoki requested this, to be able to walk in 1 block high passages as a rat
16:06 Taoki Step size needs to respect that... with current collision box sizes. Also, to the mapgens know to properly simulate smaller block sizes?
16:06 Taoki And yes, different block sizes for players would be needed for other things of course. My creatures mod would so need that sometime
16:08 sapier why not just move camera up, set player physics correct and increase fov?
16:08 Taoki Also, if it's a setting in constants.h, it might take some working to make it an option
16:09 Calinou increase fov?!
16:09 Calinou why?
16:09 ShadowNinja Taoki: Actually, you probably should only change the camera adjustment.  Leave BS as it is.
16:09 sapier not a good idea, I guess it's used in some mods too as some api calls don't honor it
16:09 Taoki sapier: Still, would that be everything? There could be a lot more like I said... such as the cave sizes being incorrect, step size (to walk on 1 block like a stair), etc
16:09 Calinou only change camera, collision radius, step height and movement/jump parameters.
16:09 Taoki Can step height be changed?
16:09 Calinou increasing world scale is harder
16:09 Calinou Taoki, yes, search for 0.2 or 0.6
16:09 Calinou (0.2 is step height in air, 0.6 on ground)
16:09 Calinou it's hardcoded :'(
16:10 Taoki Ah. Would need to be made into a setting too
16:10 Taoki Calinou: What about mapgen? Can it generate the same structures using twice the voxels, so cabes don't become miniature?
16:11 Calinou that's harder
16:11 Taoki yeah. The player would probably be unable to enter caves any more
16:12 Taoki Though with mapgen v7 there might be some tricky settings that can be used
16:12 Calinou don't forget you're just doubling hardware requirements
16:12 Calinou and storage
16:12 Calinou and perceived world size
16:13 Calinou (it “feels” twice as small in every direction)
16:13 Taoki sure
16:13 Calinou some people complain 62k × 62k × 62k is not enough already
16:13 Taoki Less for hardware requirements though. If draw distance stays the same... but then you see twice less far :/
16:13 Calinou that's stupid
16:13 Taoki And true about the world size. I complain about that not being enough too :P
16:14 Calinou it's not like we see too far already
16:14 * Taoki nods
16:14 Calinou with view distance 100 (which isn't that far), the game is fairly demanding already
16:15 Taoki yeah
16:15 Taoki Still, this would be a nice feature to have and use for custom games
16:16 sapier what's the actual usecase Taoki?
16:17 Taoki sapier: Games being able to use smaller voxel sizes, if they wish to go for that design. This would allow building stairs and slabs directly, having smoother terrain you can walk up on, or even building larger household objects directly in-world
16:18 Taoki Poles, door frames, stair rails, etc. That and more could be done out of blocks rather than scripted node boxes which aren't quite as flexible
16:18 Calinou increasing step height would be very useful to modders, same for collision radius
16:18 sapier sounds like a hell of a machine you'd require to run that game
16:18 Calinou I believe these are not so hard to do, we have eye offset change already
16:18 Calinou have fun building them by hand, Taoki :P
16:18 Taoki We could also have the trunks of trees be 2 x 2 voxels thick, so they can be dug out in pieces, more like chopping a real tree
16:18 Taoki sapier: For twice smaller voxels? Nah
16:19 Taoki If someone wants like 10- times smaller, that would indeed be crazy
16:20 sapier splitting size by half results in 4 times as much voxels
16:20 ShadowNinja Comments? http://sprunge.us/ZSVH?diff  PilzAdam: <--
16:20 sapier if you split to 1/4 it's 16 times more voxels
16:20 ShadowNinja The updatecontact seems fine since he says he'll update it.
16:20 Taoki sapier: It would probably require draw distance to be twice smaller too. So it's only for someone willing to make such a sacrifice
16:20 sapier wrong
16:20 LemonLake I like the screenshot
16:21 ShadowNinja And it can always be changed if someone else wants to take responsibility for it.
16:21 sapier 64 times more on 1/4 already
16:22 VanessaE shouldn't a good 3d library be able to combibe all those faces/voxels at draw/render time anyways?
16:22 Taoki People with rather powerful machines could make their own game, if they want to go for 1/4. Who knows... some computers today could handle that :P Still, 1/2 should be acceptable
16:22 Calinou night time screenshot???
16:22 VanessaE so the end result shouldn't be drastically different from what we have now
16:22 Calinou how much sense does this make?
16:22 Calinou there's a day one, at least
16:22 Calinou but I don't think putting even one full-night one makes sense
16:23 Calinou the day one is also… outdated.
16:23 Calinou old alien sand
16:23 VanessaE combine*
16:24 VanessaE sapier: and why is it that That Other Java Game can handle even smaller blocks (think 1/16 divisions) without a problem, as I've seen in some videos?
16:24 sapier maybe vanessae but it's not only rendering, it's all the stuff we do about nodes too e.g. light values, mob movement ... abms
16:24 ShadowNinja Nodebox-like things.
16:24 LemonLake VanessaE: It stores them in it's own block
16:25 VanessaE well sure but that stuff is done at mesh generation time, not realtime
16:25 VanessaE (at least, light is, and that's the heaviest thing)
16:26 sapier just press r and fly up, you'll get a impression about the performance impact
16:26 VanessaE If That Java Game can do it, there's no reason we can't do it better imho.  That's not to say there's necessarily a reason to do it *at all*, but to say that performance is a reason not to is probably a bad point to argue from.
16:27 sapier shouldn't we start fixing the exisiting issues prior adding new ones?
16:27 VanessaE (the only reason I can think of is the thing RBA and I have talked about with allowing higher detail in trees)
16:27 VanessaE yes, we should.
16:27 LemonLake sapier: +1
16:27 VanessaE hence, the "reason to do it *at all*" part.
16:28 VanessaE this is a feature that can wait, for now.  performance regressions in the existing code need addressed first.
16:28 LemonLake How long can an issue sit there waiting for a dev to add it?
16:29 VanessaE LemonLake: don't ask.
16:29 LemonLake ok...
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16:56 hmmmm oh sapier, http://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq2.html#null
16:57 hmmmm anyway I hope you realize the whole reason why C++ encourages 0 is because of the increased type-safety, so you couldn't assign NULL to anything aside from void *
16:58 hmmmm if C++ followed the old C pointer rules where void * could be implicitly converted to any pointer type, everybody would be using NULL
17:00 hmmmm there is no "implementation dependent" thing about NULL's value when converted to an integer, it's always the integer value of 0.  the thing that is implementation dependent might be how the integer "0" is represented in memory, or what NULL is actually defined as... the spec says that, when converted to an int, it must have the int value of 0.  that's all
17:00 hmmmm hope this finally settles the debate after all these years
17:07 Piggybear87 No one in #minetest is helping. They have their conversation going on. http://tinypic.com/r/2eq8jft/8 This is my inventory, the cube shaped things are very dark, almost black ONLY in the inventory, once placed, it's fine. http://tinypic.com/r/2yy59g1/8 This is my sky, it sucks, but I'm more worried about my inventory images. Any help?
17:09 Piggybear87 ShadowNinja, buddy, do you know what would cause this?
17:09 ShadowNinja Piggybear87: Try changing your renderer.
17:09 Piggybear87 To?
17:09 ShadowNinja Piggybear87: Whatever it isn't ;-)
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17:10 Piggybear87 In the settings menu? Like to mip-mapping or something?
17:13 ShadowNinja Piggybear87: No, one sec...
17:14 Piggybear87 I think I broke Minetest... My sky is rainbow now and it wont go away...
17:14 ShadowNinja # Possible values: null, software, burningsvideo, direct3d8, direct3d9, opengl   #video_driver = opengl
17:14 ShadowNinja Try switching between the direct3d and opengl versions.
17:14 Piggybear87 How do I do that?
17:15 ShadowNinja Change it in your minetest.conf
17:15 Piggybear87 minetest.conf?
17:15 Piggybear87 Ok.
17:23 Piggybear87 ShadowNinja, The closest two that "worked" were software, and burningsvideo. HOWEVER software made the cube shaped ones HUGE and the non cubes really tiny.... The colors were right though... And the burningsvideo made the colors right but dropped my FPS to 1-2 and the in game textures were weird.
17:24 Piggybear87 Solution = new machine?
17:24 Piggybear87 Dirct3D isnt't available on Linux.
17:26 sapier hmmmm I've already wasted enough time on 0/NULL
17:27 sapier Piggybear87: did you try disabling shaders?
17:28 Piggybear87 Did that as soon as I installed, I knew my machine couldn't handle it. Only box checked it opaque water.
17:30 Piggybear87 is*
17:30 sfan5 Piggybear87: did you try buying a new graphics card yet?
17:31 Piggybear87 Stop with that. Lol. I'm effing poor! My girlfriends laptop with OpenGL 1.2 works fine, it's not that.
17:32 VanessaE Piggybear87: you'd be surprised
17:32 LemonLake If you can't afford a graphics card that can even just run the game there's no point trying until you can
17:33 LemonLake get one
17:33 VanessaE different versions of opengl can react differently to the same piece of code
17:33 Piggybear87 It's an older version than mine though.
17:33 VanessaE RBA and I fought and fought with shaders for a long while until we had it working on all the different cards that people were using (and mine was a real bitch to work on)
17:34 Piggybear87 And my machine's specs are sligtly better.
17:34 VanessaE I'm sure it is
17:34 Piggybear87 Than my girl's..
17:34 VanessaE trust me, it's not as simple as it looks
17:34 VanessaE opengl's a minefield :-/
17:35 sfan5 ^
17:35 VanessaE that's not to say your issue can't be fixed.
17:35 * Piggybear87 pours coke on motherboard while crying "farewell good friend, it's been fun"...
17:35 VanessaE now now
17:36 Piggybear87 Lol. I WAS going to try and fix it on Singleplayer, but the two setting I was going to change don't exist anymore...
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17:41 BlockMen VanessaE, added your suggestion as comment: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/1328#issuecomment-44783663
17:41 cheapie Is there a way to make a texture pack override sounds?
17:42 VanessaE I believe you can install what is effectively a sound pack; technic music player uses something like that
17:43 Calinou <VanessaE> opengl's a minefield :-/
17:43 Calinou so is Direct3D
17:43 VanessaE not at all sure if sounds provided there in can override server-supplied sounds.
17:43 Piggybear87 Is there a way to "turn" the inventory images? Like make the inventory 2D?
17:43 cheapie VanessaE: If you're wondering, I'm trying to make those bees on VE-S be quiet.
17:44 VanessaE --> priv msg
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17:59 xrazybud does anybody here have experience compiling for android? it doesn't seem like ndk comes with clang ...?
17:59 sapier use gcc
17:59 sfan5 uhh
18:00 xrazybud the wiki says you have to use clang
18:00 sapier no
18:00 Calinou Piggybear87, using Lua mod, yes
18:00 sfan5 sapier: would you please stop telling people how to compile my working copy for android
18:01 sapier he's talking about your version? sorry he didn't tell this ;-)
18:01 Piggybear87 Calinou, Would it work when I'm on multiplayer?
18:01 sfan5 xrazybud: use ./build/tools/make-standalone-toolchain.sh --toolchain=clang to create a toolchain with clang
18:01 sfan5 sapier: my working copy is the only one documented on the wiki, so...
18:02 sapier maybe I should dokument mine too ... didn't expect just typing "make" to require a doc ;-)
18:02 sfan5 well
18:03 sapier I know I was wrong
18:03 sfan5 you need to know where to get the code too
18:04 sfan5 sapier: I suggest we change the page 'Android' to point to either Android/sapier or Android/sfan5
18:04 sapier most likely I got used to having time wasted by different ppl doing exactly same thing
18:05 sapier compiling android versions yourself does only make sense for ppl doing debugging
18:06 Calinou Piggybear87, no
18:06 Calinou except if you hosted the server (but other players would see the ugly 2D icons)
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18:07 Calinou other than that; you should probably modify C++ code
18:07 Piggybear87 Then I wouldn't care really. Singleplayer sucks...
18:08 Piggybear87 And I don't know C++, and I wouldn't know where to edit it.
18:11 Piggybear87 I think for people like me, a 2D inventory option (client side, so it works on multiplayer also) should exist. The "blockcraft" fork for Android has that option, why can't we?
18:12 sapier what do you expect the 2d inventory to provide?
18:13 Piggybear87 I don't even know if that's the problem, but if the option existed I could try it.
18:13 sapier what do you expect it to do?
18:14 Piggybear87 Make the blocks in the inventory be just the face of the block, instead of slightly turned to show that it's a cube
18:14 Piggybear87 .
18:14 sapier and why?
18:14 Piggybear87 Because the non-3D images show up on my machine, the blocks do not.
18:14 sapier on pc?
18:14 Piggybear87 Yes.
18:15 VanessaE well if RBA does the thing in the inventory that he plans where the cubes are *real* items instead of rendered-to-textures, then this will be a moot point
18:15 sapier that's interesting, because I'm looking for exactly this bug on android
18:15 Piggybear87 "IF"^
18:15 VanessaE (as in, the in-world objects displayed in the inventory too)
18:15 VanessaE Piggybear87: s/if/when/
18:15 VanessaE he says it'll be done next week
18:15 VanessaE or that's the plan
18:15 sapier Piggybear87: what graphics card do you have?
18:16 Piggybear87 Integrated POS.
18:17 sapier a little bit more details plz ... can you open your debu.txt file and get the list of opengl extentions?
18:18 Piggybear87 Where is that at?
18:19 sapier usually in your minetest folder
18:19 Piggybear87 debug?
18:20 sapier debug.txt
18:21 Piggybear87 Can I have voice so I don't get kicked?
18:21 sapier I suggest posting it to pastebin
18:21 Piggybear87 OK.
18:22 sapier I'm especially interested on the part containing a lot of "GL_something" lines
18:22 Piggybear87 http://pastebin.com/EByXpLuq
18:23 sapier that's all? :-)
18:24 Piggybear87 What else do you need? Want me to delete it and rerun and copy the whole thing?
18:24 sapier no I don't think that's gonna help
18:24 sapier well I guess I'l get a list about intel 865g ogl extensions thanks
18:25 Piggybear87 I'm sorry I'm not more help. I'm new to Linux. I'm learning though.
18:25 sapier no problem you did help
18:25 sapier I didn't know that issue occurs on pc too by now
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18:26 Piggybear87 The dark inventory textures?
18:26 Piggybear87 It's only the blocks, ingots, flowers, grass, papyrus, etc. are all fine.
18:27 Piggybear87 But if it's cube shaped...
18:27 sapier well you're lucky on android you don't see them at all
18:27 sapier most time
18:28 Piggybear87 I did on my phone. Only after I turned on 2d inventory, though.
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18:32 Piggybear87 All I'm asking is this, Make it an option. That way folks with slower machines, like me, have an option to try and fix this problem (and maybe use less CPU trying to load the 3D inventory images).
18:33 VanessaE Piggybear87: soon, it won't need to be an option
18:33 VanessaE because the root cause will be removed entirely if RBA's work pans out
18:34 Piggybear87 OK, fingers are crossed. It's playable right now, but I have to hover over the block in my inventory to see what they are.
18:34 sapier vanessaE actually no, the root cause is abug within irrlicht not rendering to texture correct. there shouldn't be any problem in doing this, hardware is capable of doing it
18:34 Piggybear87 Mine is?
18:35 VanessaE sapier: well I was about to correct myself and say that the code that leads down the path to the root cause :)
18:42 Piggybear87 Will I have to deleted and re-download/compile/install with every new version? Or is there a way to just update it?
18:42 Piggybear87 delete*
18:43 xrazybud sapier or sfan5 are you still here?
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18:45 xrazybud when trying to compile irrlicht for andoid i get 'EGL/egl.h' file not found
18:47 VanessaE no idea on that one, Piggybear87
18:48 VanessaE with linux global installs, it's just install-over-the-old-install)
18:51 Piggybear87 I have the latest (when I got it) git version. I hope I don't have to. Linux is beginning to bug me... Lol.
18:52 sfan5 xrazybud: use a newer android target when making the toolchain
18:52 sfan5 e.g. android-14
18:52 sfan5 android-3 is too old
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19:06 Piggybear87 VanessaE, how do you do a line break on signs? I want to add an address.
19:06 VanessaE Piggybear87:  --> #minetest
19:11 sapier " GL_RGBA/GL_UNSIGNED_BYTE is always accepted" << these words claim that GL_RGBA and GL_UNSIGNED_BYTE are allways correct or am I missreading something?!?!
19:12 sapier because on passing those values to that function I get told they're wrong
19:21 xrazybud thanks sfan5
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20:18 sapier ogles is crap ... I found a (very ugly) way to fix the textures for areno (and maybe mali) devices ... sadly that one breaks powervr devices
20:19 LemonLake hah
20:20 sapier LemonLake you have a mali device do you have time to test if it works there or if it's a adreno only fix
20:20 LemonLake nope
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23:02 OldCoder Hi. I've cross-compiled MT clients 5 times today; each runs under Wine but crashes when others run under Win7 or Win8. 32-bits. Tried two different MinGW toolchains. Tried both -O2 and -O3. Standard buildbot downloads. Any suggestions on what to tweak?
23:09 sapier native compiling?
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23:11 kaeza >cross-compiled
23:12 sapier native compiling was the suggestion what to tweak ;-)
23:12 kaeza oh ok :)
23:13 sapier and yes I know that's most likely not what he wanted to read
23:15 OldCoder sapier, is MT giving up on cross-compiling?
23:15 OldCoder Or has anybody tried this recently?
23:15 * OldCoder will ask sfan5
23:15 sapier I never tried because all windows toolchains are way outdated
23:16 OldCoder sapier, actually I have built a nice new toolchain
23:16 OldCoder The old parts are Irrlicht, the sound libraries, etc.
23:16 OldCoder Those may be where the crash is coming from
23:16 OldCoder I will experiment further. Thank you.
23:16 sapier why don't you just build everything to have a consistent state?
23:17 sapier that's what I did native to get it work
23:17 OldCoder sapier, because I don't have build files to produce Irrlicht curl etc. structured as the current buildbot script expects
23:17 sapier ok
23:17 OldCoder It will take a few days to build the support libraries and adjust them; but I will probably do it
23:17 sapier guess sfan5 is way more helpfull then me as he knows his script
23:18 OldCoder Yes; he is producing both 32 and 64 bit builds
23:18 OldCoder I'll ask him how. Thanks again.
23:18 OldCoder kaeza, I'm going to produce perhaps two more builds in a few minutes if you have time to test.
23:35 OldCoder
23:35 OldCoder Is anybody interested in trying a MT client cross-built with Irrlicht updated to 1.8.X ?
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23:47 lemonlake Hey sapier
23:51 lemonlake Block issue is fixed, testing DPI now
23:52 lemonlake I don't have a minetest.conf
23:54 lemonlake Alsio, whenever a new block enters the inv it flashes on the screen for about half a sec, intended?
23:55 lemonlake Either way I'm out, laters

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