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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-04-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:17 Taoki[laptop] joined #minetest-dev
00:25 iqualfragile can we make minetest save the date of the modification (just unix timestamp, possibly reduced precision) of mapblocks?
00:25 iqualfragile that would make creating caching easier
00:26 proller already saved
00:26 iqualfragile proller: in minetest? it is? great
00:26 iqualfragile proller: can you point me to the lines?
00:27 proller but maybe not exact modify time
00:27 iqualfragile what else? create time?
00:27 iqualfragile or aproximate modify time?
00:27 iqualfragile aproximate would be ok, i guess, ~ one hour or even less should be enought precision
00:28 proller 628 <--><-->writeU32(os, getTimestamp());
00:28 proller mapblock.cpp
00:28 iqualfragile k, thanks
00:29 proller 739 <--><-->setTimestamp(readU32(is));
00:29 proller 740 <--><-->m_disk_timestamp = m_timestamp;
00:29 iqualfragile just looked at the storage backends, which just saved "data", assumed wrongly it would just be plain data
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00:43 Zeno` I may add a brightness option if there isn't one already
00:44 Zeno` Mainly because I have a calibrated monitor and even day time is too "dark"
00:44 Zeno` it's not dark but gives me eyestrain
00:47 EvergreenTree If there is, it would probably go in minetest.conf
00:47 Zeno` yeah, I couldn't see it... I look at the src and find out
00:48 Zeno` I'm a C programmer, not C++, but I think I can manage something small like this =)
00:51 EvergreenTree Well, it might not be small
00:51 EvergreenTree depending upon how minetest works
00:51 EvergreenTree :p
00:52 Zeno` might not. Parsing minetest.conf will be. Surely the engine has gamma or something as well. I'll find out I guess
00:54 Zeno` That's if I can pull myself away from playing heh
01:47 kaeza has there been any work towards that ugly chatbox-blocks-formspec-buttons bug?
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06:22 sfan5 kaeza: irrlicht supports GUI skins
06:22 kaeza huh?
06:23 sfan5 <kaeza> has there been any work towards that ugly chatbox-blocks-formspec-buttons bug?
06:23 sfan5 which bug exactly?
06:23 sfan5 I thought you meant the GUI being not pretty in general
06:23 kaeza the one where if there's too much chat you cannot click buttons
06:23 sfan5 hm..
06:23 kaeza (buttons "behind" the chatbox"
06:24 kaeza s/\"$/)/
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15:42 ShadowNinja VanessaE_: Can you update #225 to use override_item?  sfan5: I fixed one of the issues, the other seems to be that nodes under 0 or so are shifted sideways by a block.
15:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/225 -- Mouse frozen in center position
15:43 ShadowNinja -> minetest_game
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15:50 celeron55 maybe the bot should understand something like minetest_game/#225
16:07 rubenwardy mg/#225?
16:07 rubenwardy maybe use $255 or something for minetest_game
16:07 rubenwardy (maybe not a $)
16:07 sfan5 no, too complicated
16:08 rubenwardy well, minetest_game/#255 would still work. just mg/#255 for shorthand
16:10 rubenwardy how about {{{{0x1111111111>>2}}}}
16:10 rubenwardy * {{{{0b1111111111>>2}}}}
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16:30 BlockMen ShadowNinja, why updating? is minetest_game dead now or not. you guys should finally decide...
16:31 ShadowNinja BlockMen: I chose "not dead".  But I'm not sure if I'm in the majority.  Having a seperate base_game might do it.
16:31 ShadowNinja But then base_game has to be copied to minetest_game, since common was removed.
16:32 BlockMen why having a seperate base_game?
16:33 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Because minetest_game has become the base for most games.
16:34 proller most ща 0 пфьуы
16:34 proller of 0 games
16:34 BlockMen huh? how is that a reason for a seperate base_game?
16:41 ShadowNinja BlockMen: Becuase derived games have to either keep updating their copy of minetest_game or split and work on their copy seperately.
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16:43 BlockMen ShadowNinja, i dont see any problem there. since they provide their own games they have anyway different things in mind (else they wouldnt make own game)
16:43 BlockMen so if "we" provide still an official game htat should be further developed it can be mt_game
17:13 celeron55 one of the problem is that if all modders stick with minetest_game and expect every feature from it to exist, they mods won't work in anything else; and those games should not be forced to take everything from a hypotethical bloated minetest_game just in order to be able work
17:13 celeron55 +s -y +to
17:15 celeron55 one of the other problems is that because minetest_game is saved in worlds on thousands of computers, anything added to it cannot really be removed, ever, and there currently is no meaningful development direction for it (because different people want different things)
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17:17 celeron55 those quite effectively mean that it has to be frozen and more focused ones must be taken into use instead
17:19 celeron55 and they will then be starting from a level playing field instead of riding on minetest_game's automatic publicity which makes people hate each other less due to unfairness
17:20 rubenwardy Pressing enter in the create a world also start the game, because it does not wait for the enter to be taken up. So the dialog enters, and then the play game is entered.
17:20 celeron55 ...none if this should have been new to anyone though
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17:37 sfan5 do mods have any possibility to detect which game they are running under?
17:38 celeron55 https://forum.minetest.net​/viewtopic.php?pid=138276
17:39 sfan5 shouldn't that topic be sticky?
17:39 celeron55 that section is so low-traffic that it doesn't matter
17:40 celeron55 sfan5: the original design of the subgame system is that each game would have their own base mod name but it looks like we can't go that way
17:40 celeron55 so, maybe mods will need that
17:41 celeron55 so the answer is no, as far as i know
17:42 celeron55 it would be ideal if mods would provide their own feature-based version detection
17:43 celeron55 so that if some mod needs something from the default mod, it could check that from default.features["something"] or something like that
17:43 celeron55 because otherwise forking a game is impossible
17:43 celeron55 without breaking modding
17:43 celeron55 note that servers fork games all the time
17:44 celeron55 and advanced players
17:45 celeron55 actually, because of that, it should not be possible for a mod to look up the game name; it's wrong and uninteroperable
17:45 sfan5 yeah
17:45 sfan5 it's the same thing like getting the minetest version
17:45 celeron55 yes
17:46 rubenwardy Jordach's BfD game is completetely incompatible with default. You need to be able to detect in that case.
17:46 celeron55 does it use the mod name "default"?
17:47 rubenwardy It does
17:47 celeron55 i don't think there is need for detection in that case; if it's not forked from minetest_game, it doesn't have any chance to be interoperable in this way anyway
17:47 rubenwardy But it is empty
17:47 celeron55 this feature-based detection is useful only if the game differs a bit from others but not too much
17:48 BlockMen i think something like "minetest.get_game_name()" would be best solution
17:48 BlockMen *or get_current_game()
17:48 celeron55 it's the worst solution due to what i just said
17:50 BlockMen oh, misread it then
17:51 BlockMen and what would be the problem if a mod can get the game name?
17:52 sfan5 BlockMen: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/1143#issuecomment-34580868 read 2)
17:53 BlockMen ah, ic. then nvm my suggestion
17:54 rubenwardy subgames like BfD can just supply a flag to say what they are. (for example, BFD = true in default).
17:54 sfan5 that is not a good idea
17:55 sfan5 what if the game name collides with a global var a modder sets?
17:55 celeron55 i assume that meant default.BFD = true
17:55 celeron55 it's not a good idea due to the same reason for which the two other mentioned things are bad ideas
17:55 celeron55 but we can't stop it
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17:58 celeron55 (we can recommend against it, though)
17:59 rubenwardy It is a good idea, because BFD does not use default:itemname.
17:59 rubenwardy it uses mapgen:dirt, etc
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18:01 celeron55 if mods insist on working on it and minetest_game-based games at the same time, then it may be the best option for it
18:01 celeron55 because... there just isn't any other option
18:02 celeron55 but that's going to be really messy and unscalable to many games; it's best if games that want to be universally moddable base themselves on minetest_game
18:03 rubenwardy I agree
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18:46 BlockMen i think something like an "about this game" in mainmenu would be nice to have
18:49 rubenwardy What would it contain?
18:50 domtron joined #minetest-dev
18:51 BlockMen a short description. i think its useful/necessary when games come along with the engine
18:52 rubenwardy Oh, subgame
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19:21 BlockMen more opinions on that? ^
19:22 sfan5 good idea
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19:39 luizrpgluiz hi devs
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22:53 emptty hello people
22:53 emptty Do someone have an idea about this problem, please: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-​bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741737
22:54 emptty I don't see no main_menu.2.ogg in the source package
22:54 emptty am I blind maybe?
22:56 PilzAdam emptty, its not a problem at all
22:57 emptty Ok, fine.
22:57 PilzAdam it just looks if menu baground music files are available
22:57 PilzAdam since there are none by default you see these messages
22:57 emptty where could they come from ?
22:59 PilzAdam users can could add their own music into the paths you see in the messages
22:59 PilzAdam -can
23:00 emptty ok
23:00 emptty I'll tell that to the user, thanks for your help

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