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IRC log for #minetest, 2025-01-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:06 shaft Seems mesecons wire doesn't have any param2 data. It could have been implemented on top of mesecons like I said
00:25 shaft Oh yes. Erle wrote a review below VoxeLibre complaining about past breakage in VoxeLibre
00:25 shaft VL gets a good review from me and Mineclonia a bad one.
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00:43 shaft Despite Erle favoring Mineclonia his mod https://content.luanti.org/packages/erlehmann/mcl_lever_status_indicator/ is definitely broken in Mineclonia now. Don't remember his irc alias, so i can't use the tell command. Someone should tell him. Maybe I'll do it when i see him
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02:11 pgimeno might take a while... [0126 23:35:21] * erle has quit (Quit: K-lined)
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03:19 cheapie pgimeno: "(Quit: K-lined)" is a fake kline, the real ones just say "(K-Lined)"
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13:34 pgimeno ah right, guess their fame made it believable
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14:35 PoochInquisitor Hey peeps, remember: don't feed the trolls!
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15:59 Zamolxis so I've built luantiserver and I'm having trouble locating the server in the server list.. i did set server_announce to true in both minetest.conf and world.mt, do I need to pass the --config to the world.mt or minetest.conf? I'm confused, I know I've did this in the past on a VPS and it just worked but can't recall how due to using containers back then
15:59 Zamolxis I can connect to it perfectly using the subdomain
16:03 celeron55 sounds like you're doing it somehow absolutely blind! have some documentation: https://dev.luanti.org/setting-up-a-server/
16:12 sfan5 you should see a line like "Announcing start to ..." in the output
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16:51 Zamolxis Hi celeron55 thanks for the link, i followed that and this is why my question remained, is minetest.conf the one which should contain the data or world.mt int he world file?
16:51 sfan5 minetest.conf is the config file where you need to put it
16:51 sfan5 it's probably not reading the config file you think it is
16:51 Zamolxis Looking through the journalctld logs after I left it running for some time I get: HTTPFetch for servers.luanti.org/announce returned response code 409
16:52 Zamolxis Request has been filed, but the previous request encountered the following error
16:52 Zamolxis server did not respond to ping
16:53 Zamolxis thanks sfan5
16:53 Zamolxis Weird, seems this provider is blocking ping requests
16:54 MTDiscord <warr1024> Like 90% of the time, failing to make it onto the server list seems to be caused by the server list server not being able to ping your luanti server at the address+port that you told it.  It's very often a firewall/forwarding sort of thing, especially since this is one of those "you have to know your own system" kind of things.
16:55 sfan5 it should say "Server ... port ... did not respond to ping". does that match what you're expecting?
16:56 Zamolxis Yes it says: ERROR[CurlFetch]: Server game.zendenpen.com port 30000 did not respond to ping (tried 2a06:1fc0:0:1::43d) - I just cut out those bits
16:56 Zamolxis SO it's using ICMP ping? or just connecting to the ip& port?
16:56 Warr1024 !up game.zendenpen.com 30000
16:56 MinetestBot game.zendenpen.com:30000 seems to be down (IPv6)
16:56 Warr1024 it's a Luanti protocol ping
16:56 Zamolxis because from what I'm seeing I suppose my provider is blocking ICMP
16:57 Warr1024 ICMP is not involved, you only need to open/forward that one single UDP port
16:57 sfan5 since you have ipv6 on your domain you will need to make sure it's 1) allowed through the firewall and 2) enabled for luanti
16:57 Warr1024 though, if you're multi-homed (Especially v4 + v6) you need to make sure the port is open on whatever address families the clients will try to use
16:58 Warr1024 IIRC Luanti can't listen on both v4 and v6 at the same time (OS dependent maybe?) so you might have to have a firewall handle forwarding from one to the other if you want to be able to use both...
16:58 Zamolxis hmm let me recheck the ipv6 ip+port manually, cause when i go to the dns it works, and dig works
16:58 Zamolxis Ah
16:58 sfan5 Warr1024: it can. just not enabled by default
16:58 Zamolxis how can it be enabled?
16:58 sfan5 see ipv6_server in minetest.conf.example
16:58 Warr1024 If you have both v4 and v6 registered then it's possible that the client is picking either one of them.
16:59 Warr1024 sfan5: I thought enabling v6 disabled v4, so I guess that's news to me.
16:59 Warr1024 Some OS's let you bind a single socket to a multi-address-family wildcard so you can accept both v4 and v6 on the same port ... others require a socket to bind to only a single AF so you would need 2 sockets to bind to v4 and v6, even if each is a wildcard.
17:01 Zamolxis So I'm setting both ipv6_server and enable_ipv6 to true and see how it works:D
17:01 Zamolxis !up game.zendenpen.com:30000
17:01 MinetestBot game.zendenpen.com:30000 is up (42ms) (IPv6)
17:01 Zamolxis Nice, it works, Thanks guys
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17:01 Zamolxis Or galls..
17:04 sfan5 this again makes me wonder why we don't enable ipv6_server by default
17:05 Zamolxis so the solution is to enable ipv6  in minetest OR to disable the subdomain to use ipv6 or use a reverse proxy (never did this for UDP!)
17:05 Zamolxis Yeah, cause it may cause some headache for newbies
17:07 MTDiscord <warr1024> The only reason not to enable ipv6 by default is if it would cause issues on certain system configurations, like crashing on a system that doesn't have v6 enabled.  If that's not an issue and we can make it Just Work automatically, then yeah, we should go for it.
17:08 MTDiscord <warr1024> tbh you might just have to enable it in dev and see what kind of weird behavior you dredge up from the field when people try it out... 🤔
17:08 Zamolxis just wondering, is it normal for CPU to be between 20 to 30% just at idle on the server?
17:09 sfan5 my personal opinion is that if you run a system with ipv6 hard-disabled in 2024 you deserve having to mess with one or the other application
17:09 MTDiscord <warr1024> Is that 20% of all cores, or 20% of one core?
17:09 sfan5 (note that hard-disabled is not the same as not configuring it, and you have to go out of your way to do so)
17:09 MTDiscord <rollerozxa> the separate enable_ipv6 engine setting is already enabled by default fwiw
17:09 MTDiscord <warr1024> "in 2024" as if IPv6 is any closer to being a reality than it was in 2014 😆
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17:10 MTDiscord <warr1024> (we haven't even graduated to IPv5 😏)
17:11 SwissalpS :D
17:11 MTDiscord <rollerozxa> it's 2025 and IPv6 broadband is still practically nowhere to be seen in my country 🥲
17:12 SwissalpS yep
17:13 MTDiscord <warr1024> One of the inherent and surprising challenges of layered architectures is that every time you try to make a thing better, some jackass will come along and find a way to tunnel an implementation of the better thing over the worse thing, and any attempt to improve the underlying architecture will have to "compete" against that.  So instead of rolling out IPv6 you find that people are just using IPv6 over a VPN over websockets over HTTP
17:13 MTDiscord over TLS over IPv4 😳
17:15 Zamolxis Warr1024: from what I'm seeing in htop it's over 1 cpu
17:15 SwissalpS may/11
17:15 MTDiscord <warr1024> Then that's not great
17:15 SwissalpS oops
17:16 MTDiscord <warr1024> Mods have a pretty broad license to consume resources, and not all of them are careful about it, so pretty much any sufficiently complex mod could cause the main thread to remain very busy even if nothing is loaded.
17:17 MTDiscord <warr1024> Also, if you have any forceloading enabled, or if players were recently on so that things are still active for a little while, then even without especially poor decision-making, any kind of mod functionality could consume extra resources.
17:21 celeron55 if you just start the server, it shouldn't consume much cpu, but of course if the cpu is underpowered to a large enough extent then even that might as well be 100%
17:21 sfan5 the only general answer is: it depends
17:22 celeron55 a cheap vps can be surprisingly wimpy when compared to even a laptop
17:23 Zamolxis aha, interesting, I remember 5 years ago I tried running it in a raaspberrypi and it just  would lag out 2-3 players , and indeed I think the dedicated CPU VPS is wimpy
17:23 Zamolxis I remember migrating to linode with 1 core and it would fly :)) now on a different provider (cheaper) and this may be it
17:24 Zamolxis I tried not enabling too many mods, plus I'm using repixture, not mineclonia or mesecons
17:24 Zamolxis Any way to see CPU breakdown by mod?
17:24 celeron55 anyway running on an underpowred server is a common thing to do with luanti and there are guides for doing that
17:25 Zamolxis well the server does have 4 cores so I think it should be able to handle at least 5 people at a time
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17:31 MTDiscord <warr1024> In my experience, cheap VPS doesn't so much give you a "weak" CPU as it gives you a CPU whose effective performance can vary a lot over time.  It might look like a powerful CPU and be able to meet some good benchmarks, but you could also see a lot of "VM steal" time happen suddenly, or it just stalls for several hundred milliseconds every so often.
17:32 MTDiscord <bastrabun> Always depends on who shares the same host machine with you
17:32 MTDiscord <warr1024> More cores won't automatically get you more players.  No matter how many players there are, there's still only one world, and its loop needs to fit inside one core.  I've rarely ever seen the server process use more than about 1.5 cores.
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17:33 MTDiscord <bastrabun> If I paste a screenshot, will that magically work in IRC?
17:33 Zamolxis OK so not really multithreaded, more like 1 core usage till it fills up?
17:34 Zamolxis If you post a url link we should probably be able to click and see it
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17:35 Zamolxis I was really curious to how deadlocks are handled in lua mods.. sometimes I see some lua code and I wonder, won't this freak things up?
17:35 Zamolxis or has no one experinced such events?:)
17:36 MTDiscord <bastrabun> What's deadlocks in this context? infinite loops?
17:37 MTDiscord <warr1024> It's very multithreaded, it's just not very balanced.
17:37 MTDiscord <warr1024> Deadlocks and whatnot are not an issue in mod code, because Lua itself can only run in one thread.
17:37 MTDiscord <bastrabun> In MT you don't need multithreading to mess up stuff. You can mess up exceptionally well in singlethreading here
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17:38 Zamolxis This explains why I saw some very bad coding choices and wondered, won't this crash my freaking server? so if it's singlethreaded then it's probably event driven so first in first out
17:39 Zamolxis especially looking at money mods, markets etc, i wonder if 2 people try to do the same action at once won't that affect anything , guess It's a surprise suprise kind of situation
17:39 MTDiscord <warr1024> Threads exist for things like IO handling and stuff, but most of the core logic runs in the main thread.  Almost all of the Lua code has to run in one main thread, with exceptions (like mapgen or workers) being very obvious when you encounter them (but not used nearly as often as you might expect).
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17:41 MTDiscord <warr1024> Any sequential code in Lua can be assumed to run atomically (outside of crashes).  Concurrency needs to be cooperative, so if it's not yielding to another procedure, no other procedure will run.  Async workers can do work concurrently, but can't access the central game state concurrently.
17:43 Zamolxis so animalworld with repixture is hardcore, most animals kill you almost instantly even with a good armor and they have like 65 HP while the main user has 20 ... probably not a good mod choice lol.
17:44 Zamolxis I remember a few years ago HP was limited to 20 for players, I imagine this might be fixed by now?
17:44 Zamolxis thanks for the explanations Warr1024
17:46 MTDiscord <warr1024> tbf the HP limitation is only relevant anyway if you use a pure engine health implementation.  NodeCore has an 8hp system, but it's floating point so it's easier to scale to pretty much anything ... though I've been thinking for a while to change the overall scale because of how falling damage works.
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