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08:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Resolve some quirks with (wield) item meshes for nodes (#15654) 636a734 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/636a734d78b6c0b8392eabda350131690b800682 (2025-01-13T08:39:06Z) |
08:41 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Fix always waving semitransparent liquid regression 2bfcd45 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2bfcd45b35d9e64cbbe54827c4d58d3b5082299a (2025-01-13T08:39:20Z) |
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09:37 |
* cheapie |
giggles a bit at the branch name for #15654 |
09:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15654 -- Resolve some quirks with (wield) item meshes for nodes by sfan5 |
09:37 |
cheapie |
https://xkcd.com/1296/ much? :P |
09:51 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> HAAAAAAAAANDS |
10:14 |
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11:10 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: Add safety checks before overriding builtin item entity (#3177) ee1f2b6 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/ee1f2b68df3fd15b4d489d4c236abf5dfe4cd9ff (2025-01-13T11:09:45Z) |
11:10 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest_game: Beds: allow digging stray top nodes (#3173) 1f4291f https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/1f4291ff0930e5facd9de64a5a36c4bfcb1d99d5 (2025-01-13T11:10:03Z) |
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13:42 |
Guest21 |
why does luanti only require mods to be installed serverside? wouldnt having it be run client side be btter? it would negate the need for sscsm |
13:43 |
SwissalpS |
lol |
13:44 |
ireallyhateirc |
It appears to me that this community is focused mostly around hosting servers and playing on servers |
13:45 |
ireallyhateirc |
sscsms make that easier |
13:45 |
ireallyhateirc |
otherwise you'd need to tell the client to install this specific mod soup of CSMs |
13:46 |
Guest21 |
considering that contentdb exists, wouldn't it make everything easier? |
13:46 |
ireallyhateirc |
the current plan for SSCSMs is going to include ContentDB verification |
13:47 |
Guest21 |
it would also potentially lighten the load on the servers (though it would push it to client, which may potentially not be well equipped cor such tasks), but it might allow for better key controls? |
13:48 |
Guest21 |
if mods could run client side, keys could be handled by the mods themselves, so they could draw buttons for mobile or allow keypresses on pc |
13:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
already downloaded CSMs will be stored, the load on servers would be the same I guess? |
13:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
you need to download a mod at some point |
13:50 |
Guest21 |
with the mods being downloaded on the client, the processing could be changed to client side—oh nvm itd facilitate _unscrumptious behaviour_ |
13:51 |
ireallyhateirc |
well idk, I'm not an expert. I'll welcome any solution for easy CSMs, even if it's SSCSMs |
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13:52 |
Guest21 |
makes sense |
14:33 |
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15:23 |
SwissalpS |
cdb is great but there are sometimes name conflicts and some combinations of mods need different versions of certain mods etc. etc. |
15:23 |
SwissalpS |
it would still have to be the server that provides the mods to the client in the end. |
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17:32 |
[ |
SSCSMs are a terrible idea |
17:33 |
[ |
they can't be implemented securely and have the same software freedom issues as JavaScript on the web |
17:34 |
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18:02 |
ireallyhateirc |
[, the issue boils down to "just don't use proprietary servers/SaaSS". That's why I proposed that clients should have the ability to exclude SSCSMs by license: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5393#issuecomment-2567093230 |
18:04 |
ireallyhateirc |
there's nothing stopping developers from making proprietary games for Luanti and telling the users to grab a proprietary CSM |
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18:30 |
SwissalpS |
/4/4 |
18:33 |
sfan5 |
there's nothing stopping developers from lying about the license either |
18:34 |
sfan5 |
unless you want to throw CDB reviews into the loop |
18:34 |
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18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> If you lie about the license, then you would be distributing litigatable proof of copyright violation to everyone who joins, no? |
18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> so maybe that would be a deterrent? |
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MTDiscord |
<luatic> i agree. the best solution to software freedom concerns is to have no software at all. problem solved. thank me later. |
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[ |
ireallyhateirc: there's also the issue of practical user freedom: it should be easy for the player to run modified versions of SSCSMs |
19:56 |
[ |
and there's nothing stopping developers from doing that, but the process of installing a proprietary CSM isn't automated |
20:06 |
ireallyhateirc |
I believe the plan outlined by one dev included allowing the client to decide which/if any CSMs it runs but I can't find that right now. An option to disable the server-sent aspect would be good as long as the game could be installed as a whole package (CSMs + ordinary mods) like most games do anyway |
20:45 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> sscsm shouldn't be used for things that, if the client changed the code, would allow cheating. There's a limit to what can be done about it, but take a sscsm that adds fog so the client can't see beyond a radius. (IK we already have this as a client feature). In addition to the fog which can be disabled, the server should also decline to send map or objects outside the radius that a normally-behaving client would be unable to see |
20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> therefore clients ought not to change the code of sscsm in normal use, and we shouldn't make it too easy for them to, but if they do for malicious (cheating) or benevolent purposese (personal accessibility), its not a disaster |
21:01 |
ireallyhateirc |
implementing DRM with a LGPL-licensed client makes no sense and completely defeats the purpose if you ask me |
21:01 |
ireallyhateirc |
a real fix for cheaters is the server-side control of gameplay, everything else is just security by obscurity copium |
21:04 |
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21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> i think sscsm should be more used for visuals or features where its like "you dont have the sscsm, you dont get the feature" |
21:24 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> irhirc: I wasn't suggesting DRM, but simply using sscsm for instant visual effects: use it for custom physics but validate the physics serverside. use it for hud, but design it so modifing the hud can only give you less info, not more, because no more is sent, etc. of course you can't do that perfectly |
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22:02 |
ireallyhateirc |
I understand that but I believe client modding should be possible. If that doesn't land in upstream Luanti someone will simply make a fork. |
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