Time Nick Message 04:16 Blockhead256 attention advtrains wagon authors, PLEASE prefix your wagon names with your own modname, NOT "advtrains:" 04:16 Blockhead256 https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=441606#p441606 04:23 Blockhead256 For old mods, you should be able to transition to the new name with advtrains.register_wagon_alias(src, dst) 04:23 Blockhead256 https://git.bananach.space/advtrains.git/tree/advtrains/wagons.lua?h=release-2.4.7&id=3d2d19f6f7eba90f0d19b002824b2ff466567608#n1343 09:00 rubenwardy Is chameli on the forums a bot 10:01 celeron55 try to ask them? :D 13:42 MTDiscord they've got some weird website in their forum profile and their posts do still feel like they are AI generated even though it seems to have a scary amount of context that makes me not 100% sure 16:43 Blockhead256 ok seriously what is up with the French forums today? It looks like we have a bunch of LLM bots loose, but I can't really make a judgement call based on near-zero french knowledge 16:43 Blockhead256 do we have a francophone moderator? 16:44 sfan5 we do not 16:45 celeron55 this kind of thing happening more often could spell (lol) doom to the non-english forums 16:46 Blockhead256 I can probably make a call that a user with an IP from zimbabwe who wants to talk about "technology, cooking and travel destinations in France" is probably bogus 16:46 Blockhead256 others I can't really 16:47 Blockhead256 no problems in the Finnish subforum.. lol 16:48 Blockhead256 Anyway I was promoted to mod with not much except a long background in the community and spam reports. 16:49 Blockhead256 there are definitely some candidates anyway: Astrobe, Athozus, Calinou (not logged in for a year), Amelaye... 16:51 MTDiscord @lemente if you have a sec to take a peak perhaps? 16:52 MTDiscord (they do stuff on cdb) 16:52 Blockhead256 https://forum.luanti.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=52391 16:52 celeron55 Blockhead256: frankly you're doing an amazing job, there's not much more to say. sometimes you just have to let things slide and decide to act only on the 10th offence, to gather enough info 16:53 MTDiscord Yeah, I'll take a look French part of the forum, today only ? 16:53 Blockhead256 yeah there's these two new accounts 16:54 Blockhead256 let me know if you reckon it's ChatGPT/LLM recycling or legitimate people 16:54 MTDiscord see the one account above, blockhead could you link the other (french) one? 16:55 Blockhead256 this post https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=441621#p441621 17:00 MTDiscord It does sound very formal and vague like an LLM I wonder what their purpose is. I'd be curious to just let it happen and see. Sending a DM might also be fun 17:02 Blockhead256 yes we exist in this weird space where you're never quite sure if posters are using an LLM to later become a spammer, to try to help people in a low-effort way or to actually help them communicate 17:02 MTDiscord The omecon account seems normal however. I'll take a deeper look. Might be a teacher looking for help 17:02 Blockhead256 the general principle is that we don't want pure AI accounts, it's a forum for humans who actually have something to share, not recycled internet content 17:03 Blockhead256 empty GitHub accounts always seem weird to me, like who fills out that field on the forums but has apparently never posted as much as an issue thread? 17:03 MTDiscord Actually no, omecon sounds weird also. 17:05 Blockhead256 probably worth sending some PMs I guess, thanks for looking 17:06 MTDiscord considering that "loso" is a github account with four letters registered in 2012 I think it's mostly used as a cover to seem more legitimate 17:06 MTDiscord I assume those account are trying to pass has helpful, but are going to go rogue at some point? Or is someone in the community just playing with LLMs? 17:06 MTDiscord (though of course, someone could have a long-running github account with no publicly visible activity... but there is no verification when it comes to the github profile field on the forums and you could have impersonated anyone through it) 17:06 MTDiscord usually they are supposed to first be helpful and then they go rogue by editing in links to random sites to boost their SEO 17:06 MTDiscord Why French though 🤔 17:06 Blockhead256 lemente: It's extremely common that they do go rogue after posting 1-5 posts 17:07 Blockhead256 I suspect spam is easier to get through (in general) in languages other than English. Less moderation -> ergo, better spam target 17:07 MTDiscord Is it possible to shadowbox and monitor them? 17:07 MTDiscord shadowban* 17:08 Blockhead256 the funny thing is, if what I recall from rubenwardy is right, the links on the forums are specifically marked so that search engine bots don't give them any weight 17:08 MTDiscord don't think phpbb has any sophisticated shadowbanning functionality out of the box 17:08 MTDiscord yep, phpbb puts nofollow on links posted by users 17:08 Blockhead256 yeah I don't know if any way to shadowban with what I've got, most I can do is delete or move to trash 17:09 MTDiscord and I don't even think this kind of SEO link spam even helps much anymore with modern search engines. but it's still ongoing for some reason 17:10 Blockhead256 I think there are a lot of held-over practices in tech and schools of cargo culting. You know, like banks that still run the core system on fortran and random videos in south asian creoles.... 17:11 MTDiscord definitively 17:11 celeron55 well, it doesn't seem to be getting worse, which is telling 17:11 celeron55 but it's still a hindrance 17:12 Blockhead256 I delete spam accounts every day. I think if I didn't it would get worse for sure 17:12 MTDiscord but the fact they've brought in (relatively) modern LLMs that can generate relatively comprehensible texts with some amount of context to the surrounding forum and thread tells me they're still honing the craft, assuming there to be something that can still be gained from it 17:13 celeron55 well, the thing is, if it costs almost nothing, any little benefit can be worth it 17:13 Blockhead256 one account had a github profile that i'm fairly sure was being used to distribute malware or was stuffed with plagiarism to look more legit 17:14 Blockhead256 it's really hard to imagine anyone seeing AND deciding to click on one of these accounts' post/signature links, but I guess it's not impossible hehehe 17:15 MTDiscord Don't hesitate if you need me to review more French posts! 17:15 Blockhead256 thanks! 17:16 MTDiscord Also, I'm really tempted to talk to those LLMs, but I won't in case they attract more 😅 17:16 Blockhead256 PM if it all I think 17:16 Blockhead256 if at all 17:17 celeron55 if i were to design forum software, i'd make it so that spam is automatically detected, but if it's not 100% clearly spam, it's left to the community to decide so that it gets annotated with a "do you think this is spam?" vote, which every user can respond to. and then the system makes choices based on the answers. if nobody responds "no it's not spam", then it hides it just to keep things tidy. this 17:17 celeron55 of course only works if the community is relatively active 17:18 celeron55 i dream of not having to have moderators, becuase it would be nice to spread the moderating task between every forum user 17:18 MTDiscord did you just reinvent reddit 17:18 celeron55 anyway, that's not possible with phpbb 17:19 MTDiscord Also, every new member should answer an anti-bot test. If they fail the test, then they are human. 17:19 celeron55 :D 17:19 MTDiscord pretty sure there is already a captcha on the registration page 17:19 MTDiscord Reverse captcha 17:19 celeron55 yeah without the registration captcha, things would quickly get completely out of hand 17:20 celeron55 and Blockhead256 would be very unhappy 17:20 MTDiscord I mean if you look at the member list sorted by registration date things have already gotten out of hand for years. the spambots that actually post are only the tip of the iceberg 17:20 MTDiscord (as long as they don't all wake up and make posts that's not much of an issue though I guess) 17:20 Blockhead256 yeah the sheer quantity of sleeper agents, probably sitting there aging up the accounts... 17:21 MTDiscord I also wonder if it would be possible to ddos them by talking too much with the LLM. 17:21 celeron55 well, too bad account age does nothing on the forum 17:21 MTDiscord there are probably 10000+ at this points, the forum has 23341 members and the sleepers go back for years 17:21 celeron55 the forum only acts based on number of posts. currently you need to have 10 posts to get out of the "newly registered users" group 17:21 Blockhead256 I hope that access to the offtopic subforums is worth it for these scrapers and sleeper-spammers, there so much useless info LUL 17:21 celeron55 in that group, PMs and some other things are disabled 17:22 Blockhead256 rollerozxa: for some reason I'm imagining an underground hive city of bots awakening and we humans all get consumed in a robopocalypse 17:22 celeron55 yeah i bet the sleeper users are on sale on some black market. but it looks like they're not selling well 17:24 MTDiscord Blockhead256: hehe 17:24 MTDiscord I thought the robot uprising was gonna be an epic battle with physical robots but actually it's just years of luanti forums sleeper bots coming alive at once to spam it until the database corrupts 17:25 celeron55 well, anyway. i think you understand that i'd like to replace phpbb with something designed for modern moderation needs. it's just that it doesn't happen by the snap of fingers 17:26 Blockhead256 take it one easy small thing at a time. Fixing the account recovery and report forms. Okay maybe that isn't easy.. 17:26 jonadab Most of those sleeper accounts will never be used because the credentials have been lost. 17:26 jonadab But there's no way to tell for sure which ones. 17:27 Blockhead256 it's like unexploded ordinance 17:31 celeron55 i like to live dangerously 17:34 MTDiscord The fun begins once the spam bots become accidentally more helpful than actual humans, and start competing with each others by being helpful. Accidental reverse robopocalypse 17:34 MTDiscord hah, like that'll ever happen... 17:36 MTDiscord Yeah, you're right, competition only leads to exploiting loopholes 17:37 Blockhead256 I'd be surprised to found at if ChatGPT knew what Minetest's new name was 17:38 MTDiscord Oh, it knows 17:40 MTDiscord https://chatgpt.com/share/678009bd-4cf0-800a-8ad2-a715e62d0c1c 17:40 MTDiscord I mean, ChatGPT has access to search the web nowadays so it should be able to pick up on that by now 17:41 MTDiscord It even cite its sources 17:41 celeron55 being able to use recent information is very important in the competition between AI chatbots. they brag about it 17:43 MTDiscord wtf I asked ChatGPT "who is ROllerozxa" to see if it would search up my website and it just told me I am ROllerozxa 17:43 MTDiscord "ROllerozxa seems to be your username or online persona. Based on our prior interactions, ROllerozxa appears to be: [...] Would you like to add or clarify anything about your identity or interests?" 17:43 MTDiscord I want off this ride right this instant 17:47 MTDiscord show chat 17:48 MTDiscord i wonder if you ask it about some other internet person, if it would tell you the same thing. or how much percentage has to match 17:50 MTDiscord potentially 17:50 MTDiscord though I'm pretty sure it's because my chat history with it is so long and has so many things that can be correlated with what I do publicly that it responded with that 17:50 celeron55 are you logged in? 17:50 celeron55 i suppose so, if you have chat history 17:53 MTDiscord to chatgpt? yeah, and I tend to be so all my chats gets saved in the history. but I log into it with my realname google account that doesn't use this username so it doesn't exactly see that a user named ROllerozxa is logged in 17:53 MTDiscord I mean, I guess that is evidence that their "memory" feature works, using past conversations as context 😂 19:08 MTDiscord "Blockhead256: frankly you're doing an amazing job" seconded 19:12 MTDiscord if we are counting, third