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| 04:16 |
Blockhead256 |
attention advtrains wagon authors, PLEASE prefix your wagon names with your own modname, NOT "advtrains:" |
| 04:16 |
Blockhead256 |
https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=441606#p441606 |
| 04:23 |
Blockhead256 |
For old mods, you should be able to transition to the new name with advtrains.register_wagon_alias(src, dst) |
| 04:23 |
Blockhead256 |
https://git.bananach.space/advtrains.git/tree/advtrains/wagons.lua?h=release-2.4.7&id=3d2d19f6f7eba90f0d19b002824b2ff466567608#n1343 |
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rubenwardy |
Is chameli on the forums a bot |
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celeron55 |
try to ask them? :D |
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MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> they've got some weird website in their forum profile and their posts do still feel like they are AI generated even though it seems to have a scary amount of context that makes me not 100% sure |
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| 16:43 |
Blockhead256 |
ok seriously what is up with the French forums today? It looks like we have a bunch of LLM bots loose, but I can't really make a judgement call based on near-zero french knowledge |
| 16:43 |
Blockhead256 |
do we have a francophone moderator? |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:44 |
sfan5 |
we do not |
| 16:45 |
celeron55 |
this kind of thing happening more often could spell (lol) doom to the non-english forums |
| 16:46 |
Blockhead256 |
I can probably make a call that a user with an IP from zimbabwe who wants to talk about "technology, cooking and travel destinations in France" is probably bogus |
| 16:46 |
Blockhead256 |
others I can't really |
| 16:47 |
Blockhead256 |
no problems in the Finnish subforum.. lol |
| 16:48 |
Blockhead256 |
Anyway I was promoted to mod with not much except a long background in the community and spam reports. |
| 16:49 |
Blockhead256 |
there are definitely some candidates anyway: Astrobe, Athozus, Calinou (not logged in for a year), Amelaye... |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> @lemente if you have a sec to take a peak perhaps? |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> (they do stuff on cdb) |
| 16:52 |
Blockhead256 |
https://forum.luanti.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=52391 |
| 16:52 |
celeron55 |
Blockhead256: frankly you're doing an amazing job, there's not much more to say. sometimes you just have to let things slide and decide to act only on the 10th offence, to gather enough info |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Yeah, I'll take a look French part of the forum, today only ? |
| 16:53 |
Blockhead256 |
yeah there's these two new accounts |
| 16:54 |
Blockhead256 |
let me know if you reckon it's ChatGPT/LLM recycling or legitimate people |
| 16:54 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> see the one account above, blockhead could you link the other (french) one? |
| 16:55 |
Blockhead256 |
this post https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=441621#p441621 |
| 16:59 |
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| 17:00 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> It does sound very formal and vague like an LLM I wonder what their purpose is. I'd be curious to just let it happen and see. Sending a DM might also be fun |
| 17:02 |
Blockhead256 |
yes we exist in this weird space where you're never quite sure if posters are using an LLM to later become a spammer, to try to help people in a low-effort way or to actually help them communicate |
| 17:02 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> The omecon account seems normal however. I'll take a deeper look. Might be a teacher looking for help |
| 17:02 |
Blockhead256 |
the general principle is that we don't want pure AI accounts, it's a forum for humans who actually have something to share, not recycled internet content |
| 17:03 |
Blockhead256 |
empty GitHub accounts always seem weird to me, like who fills out that field on the forums but has apparently never posted as much as an issue thread? |
| 17:03 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Actually no, omecon sounds weird also. |
| 17:05 |
Blockhead256 |
probably worth sending some PMs I guess, thanks for looking |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> considering that "loso" is a github account with four letters registered in 2012 I think it's mostly used as a cover to seem more legitimate |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I assume those account are trying to pass has helpful, but are going to go rogue at some point? Or is someone in the community just playing with LLMs? |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (though of course, someone could have a long-running github account with no publicly visible activity... but there is no verification when it comes to the github profile field on the forums and you could have impersonated anyone through it) |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> usually they are supposed to first be helpful and then they go rogue by editing in links to random sites to boost their SEO |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Why French though 🤔 |
| 17:06 |
Blockhead256 |
lemente: It's extremely common that they do go rogue after posting 1-5 posts |
| 17:07 |
Blockhead256 |
I suspect spam is easier to get through (in general) in languages other than English. Less moderation -> ergo, better spam target |
| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Is it possible to shadowbox and monitor them? |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> shadowban* |
| 17:08 |
Blockhead256 |
the funny thing is, if what I recall from rubenwardy is right, the links on the forums are specifically marked so that search engine bots don't give them any weight |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> don't think phpbb has any sophisticated shadowbanning functionality out of the box |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yep, phpbb puts nofollow on links posted by users |
| 17:08 |
Blockhead256 |
yeah I don't know if any way to shadowban with what I've got, most I can do is delete or move to trash |
| 17:09 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> and I don't even think this kind of SEO link spam even helps much anymore with modern search engines. but it's still ongoing for some reason |
| 17:10 |
Blockhead256 |
I think there are a lot of held-over practices in tech and schools of cargo culting. You know, like banks that still run the core system on fortran and random videos in south asian creoles.... |
| 17:11 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> definitively |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
well, it doesn't seem to be getting worse, which is telling |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
but it's still a hindrance |
| 17:12 |
Blockhead256 |
I delete spam accounts every day. I think if I didn't it would get worse for sure |
| 17:12 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> but the fact they've brought in (relatively) modern LLMs that can generate relatively comprehensible texts with some amount of context to the surrounding forum and thread tells me they're still honing the craft, assuming there to be something that can still be gained from it |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
well, the thing is, if it costs almost nothing, any little benefit can be worth it |
| 17:13 |
Blockhead256 |
one account had a github profile that i'm fairly sure was being used to distribute malware or was stuffed with plagiarism to look more legit |
| 17:14 |
Blockhead256 |
it's really hard to imagine anyone seeing AND deciding to click on one of these accounts' post/signature links, but I guess it's not impossible hehehe |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Don't hesitate if you need me to review more French posts! |
| 17:15 |
Blockhead256 |
thanks! |
| 17:16 |
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| 17:16 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Also, I'm really tempted to talk to those LLMs, but I won't in case they attract more 😅 |
| 17:16 |
Blockhead256 |
PM if it all I think |
| 17:16 |
Blockhead256 |
if at all |
| 17:17 |
celeron55 |
if i were to design forum software, i'd make it so that spam is automatically detected, but if it's not 100% clearly spam, it's left to the community to decide so that it gets annotated with a "do you think this is spam?" vote, which every user can respond to. and then the system makes choices based on the answers. if nobody responds "no it's not spam", then it hides it just to keep things tidy. this |
| 17:17 |
celeron55 |
of course only works if the community is relatively active |
| 17:18 |
celeron55 |
i dream of not having to have moderators, becuase it would be nice to spread the moderating task between every forum user |
| 17:18 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> did you just reinvent reddit |
| 17:18 |
celeron55 |
anyway, that's not possible with phpbb |
| 17:19 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Also, every new member should answer an anti-bot test. If they fail the test, then they are human. |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
:D |
| 17:19 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> pretty sure there is already a captcha on the registration page |
| 17:19 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Reverse captcha |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
yeah without the registration captcha, things would quickly get completely out of hand |
| 17:20 |
celeron55 |
and Blockhead256 would be very unhappy |
| 17:20 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I mean if you look at the member list sorted by registration date things have already gotten out of hand for years. the spambots that actually post are only the tip of the iceberg |
| 17:20 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (as long as they don't all wake up and make posts that's not much of an issue though I guess) |
| 17:20 |
Blockhead256 |
yeah the sheer quantity of sleeper agents, probably sitting there aging up the accounts... |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I also wonder if it would be possible to ddos them by talking too much with the LLM. |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
well, too bad account age does nothing on the forum |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> there are probably 10000+ at this points, the forum has 23341 members and the sleepers go back for years |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
the forum only acts based on number of posts. currently you need to have 10 posts to get out of the "newly registered users" group |
| 17:21 |
Blockhead256 |
I hope that access to the offtopic subforums is worth it for these scrapers and sleeper-spammers, there so much useless info LUL |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
in that group, PMs and some other things are disabled |
| 17:22 |
Blockhead256 |
rollerozxa: for some reason I'm imagining an underground hive city of bots awakening and we humans all get consumed in a robopocalypse |
| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
yeah i bet the sleeper users are on sale on some black market. but it looks like they're not selling well |
| 17:24 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> Blockhead256: hehe |
| 17:24 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I thought the robot uprising was gonna be an epic battle with physical robots but actually it's just years of luanti forums sleeper bots coming alive at once to spam it until the database corrupts |
| 17:25 |
celeron55 |
well, anyway. i think you understand that i'd like to replace phpbb with something designed for modern moderation needs. it's just that it doesn't happen by the snap of fingers |
| 17:26 |
Blockhead256 |
take it one easy small thing at a time. Fixing the account recovery and report forms. Okay maybe that isn't easy.. |
| 17:26 |
jonadab |
Most of those sleeper accounts will never be used because the credentials have been lost. |
| 17:26 |
jonadab |
But there's no way to tell for sure which ones. |
| 17:27 |
Blockhead256 |
it's like unexploded ordinance |
| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
i like to live dangerously |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> The fun begins once the spam bots become accidentally more helpful than actual humans, and start competing with each others by being helpful. Â Accidental reverse robopocalypse |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> hah, like that'll ever happen... |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Yeah, you're right, competition only leads to exploiting loopholes |
| 17:37 |
Blockhead256 |
I'd be surprised to found at if ChatGPT knew what Minetest's new name was |
| 17:38 |
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| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> Oh, it knows |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> https://chatgpt.com/share/678009bd-4cf0-800a-8ad2-a715e62d0c1c |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I mean, ChatGPT has access to search the web nowadays so it should be able to pick up on that by now |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> It even cite its sources |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
being able to use recent information is very important in the competition between AI chatbots. they brag about it |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> wtf I asked ChatGPT "who is ROllerozxa" to see if it would search up my website and it just told me I am ROllerozxa |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> "ROllerozxa seems to be your username or online persona. Based on our prior interactions, ROllerozxa appears to be: [...] Would you like to add or clarify anything about your identity or interests?" |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I want off this ride right this instant |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> show chat |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> i wonder if you ask it about some other internet person, if it would tell you the same thing. or how much percentage has to match |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> potentially |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> though I'm pretty sure it's because my chat history with it is so long and has so many things that can be correlated with what I do publicly that it responded with that |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
are you logged in? |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
i suppose so, if you have chat history |
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| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> to chatgpt? yeah, and I tend to be so all my chats gets saved in the history. but I log into it with my realname google account that doesn't use this username so it doesn't exactly see that a user named ROllerozxa is logged in |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I mean, I guess that is evidence that their "memory" feature works, using past conversations as context 😂 |
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MTDiscord |
<luatic> "Blockhead256: frankly you're doing an amazing job" seconded |
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MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> if we are counting, third |
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