Time Nick Message 00:00 MTDiscord HW coloring is probably completely fine from a user standpoint, it's just a bit of a pain in the ass how it currently is mixed with lighting and is thus stalling ambient light 00:00 shaft Other than that there are no drawbacks I know of. I've specifically swaped the overlay order for the top textures to avoid edge seams 00:00 erle luatic btw wuzzy eyeball game shows a very interesting lighting/blending bug: a dark wall that is barely visible will be much more visible if viewed through a well-lit glass pane 00:01 MTDiscord Android 5 has not gotten updated in 6 years 00:01 MTDiscord Hack on Linux into that thing 00:01 MTDiscord erle: lol, i did not notice that. i was too busy staying not unseen. 00:01 Wuzzy screenshot? 00:02 shaft Because the top textures are swapped the lighting thing with the overlays is absolutely not noticable at all. I've already experimented with that months ago 00:03 erle Wuzzy i don't have a screenshot rn, but you can see it in the level with the hanging rooms connected by glass floor 00:03 shaft So on the top the uncolored bed overlays the colored bed parts rather than the other way around 00:04 shaft That prevents weird lighting conditions to be noticable and also a seam that would be there otherwise 00:04 shaft From a user standpoint there are really no drawbacks except needing Luanti > 5 00:05 erle shaft i am usually very skeptical of “really no drawbacks”, last time that happened my unifont rendering got messed up lol 00:06 shaft Well I've already played around with hw coloring beds months ago but I was making new beds that cropped and colored wool_white.png but it didn't look good enough to me. 00:07 shaft Like remember all the way back when I filed that bug about ^[mask not scaling the mask 00:07 shaft I spend way too much time on this. 00:08 Wuzzy erle, sorry i dont seem to notice anything weird with glass 00:09 erle Wuzzy if you look through the glass that is lit at a wall that is unlit, said wall does not suddenly look brighter (i.e. the blending is unnatural)? 00:09 erle e.g. the bottom of the hanging rooms 00:09 erle i'll make a screenshot ig 00:09 erle shaft your mod is not good because it does not provide a new way to get the elusive half-bed 00:10 erle i recently made a flying machine that pushed things around so fast i ended up with a lever attached to air 00:10 erle i also recently made a flying machine that activated a note block in each step to be really annoying hahaha 00:11 shaft I don't know what you mean. It uses the beds and mcl_beds mod. It doesn't change anything regarding half-beds. Half beds now have a texture in between. They have to because of the legs 00:12 erle yes that is the issue, you are not introducing new bugs 00:12 erle i also once made a half-piston 00:13 erle they are not mineable 00:13 erle very funny 00:13 erle (just the head of the piston) 00:13 erle i ended up blowing them up with TNT 00:16 shaft The other game, which shall not be named, has much larger issues. I remember making a world unloadable by placing redstone on a piston or something with the $NAME Edit. 00:16 shaft mod 00:16 shaft No it was world edit 00:16 erle shaft btw why were you so impatient to cdb? 00:16 shaft And then I loaded the map in $NAME edit and removed the redstone and made it loadable again 00:17 shaft Because I'm trying to get this format into VoxeLibre. https://git.minetest.land/VoxeLibre/VoxeLibre/issues/4713 00:17 erle cdb is volunteers, they are not your servants 00:17 erle IIRC voxelibre takes every contribution that is not total garbage, even the ones that are somewhat garbage. so you'll be fine. 00:17 erle (your contribution does not look like garbage) 00:18 shaft Otherwise I'd just wait but I can't make draft issue on minetest.land 00:19 erle shaft have you made game for game jam? 00:19 erle also have you played extra ordinance? 00:19 erle very neat game 00:20 shaft I'm not making games for Luanti. The part I'm interested in is already there and it be stupid to make another modsoup. 00:20 shaft I'm playing around with some small game in Godot though 00:21 erle shaft some of the best games are not mod soup though. ever played nodecore? 00:21 erle it is amazingly polished 00:21 shaft I don't know how to play it. 00:21 erle try 00:21 shaft I have 00:21 erle do you want a little spoiler? 00:21 erle press inventory key to see what you can do 00:22 shaft The game is just to unintuitive. I already spend hours on getting a hoe and mining dirt with it. 00:22 shaft It needs more polish 00:23 MTDiscord Haha, "more polish" wont change how you approach the game. There are some who find it intuitive and others who dont 00:24 erle first time i played nodecore i was WTF THIS IS TOO HARD 00:24 erle then i played some nodecore skyhell 00:24 shaft You say that about MTG too and mine down 2000 nodes to get resources. 00:24 erle when i went back to normal nodecore i was enlightened 00:24 MTDiscord shaft: I dont say anything like that about MTG 00:25 MTDiscord MTG is hardly a game 00:25 shaft but it's a modding base 00:25 MTDiscord An awful modding base 00:25 shaft That's what you say. Most people play that or VoxeLibre 00:25 MTDiscord For now 00:26 shaft Almost all games made with this engine use a two block tall character 00:27 MTDiscord For now 00:27 shaft I know I'm saying the stuff you don't wanna hear 00:27 shaft It's not gonna change 00:27 MTDiscord What do you mean? Why wouldnt we want to hear it? 00:27 MTDiscord "Its not gonna change" lol 00:27 erle mineclonia > voxelibre 00:27 erle shaft play extra ordinance 00:27 erle shaft it is entirely unlike minecraft 00:27 MTDiscord You keep making a lot of assumptions, shaft. You are welcome to them, but they are just assumptions 00:27 erle shaft btw, nodecore is also entirely unlike most other block games and then you complain 00:28 erle it's like people being “oh i like roguelikes” but then i show them hyperrogue and they are like NO NOT THAT ONE 00:29 shaft Okay looks cool but for these kind of games you could achieve better results in another engine like Godot. 00:30 [ I don't like hyperrogue because it doesn't work with SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland for some reason 00:32 MTDiscord shaft: For now 00:32 shaft Forever 00:32 MTDiscord Care to back that up with a source? 00:33 shaft Better funding, vulkan support, proper gltf support ages ago, support for many programming languages through GDNative and GDExetension, good ligting effects, ... 00:33 MTDiscord So you are telling me why Godot is a good engine, but you arent telling me why Luanti could never be 00:34 [ shaft: Godot 4 is missing OpenGL 2.1 support 00:34 [ This is much more important than vulkan support 00:34 MTDiscord lol 00:34 [ It doesn't even have GLES2 00:35 shaft Luanti is good at its own thing. The whole Game Creation System building and fighting game aspect is great. 00:35 MTDiscord Luanti? For fighting games? lmao 00:36 MTDiscord Complete lack of wield item behavior, poor support for physics modifications, and shoddy network behavior does not make for a good fighting game 00:36 shaft I didn't mean it like that. But VoxeLibre for example. 00:36 shaft It's still a great building and puzzle game with Mesecons and all that 00:36 shaft Show me a game that has Mesecons! 00:38 MTDiscord Clearly some users have a much different and smaller idea of what Luanti could be, and thats fine. No one will stop you 00:38 shaft Actually I could talk shit about every aspect of Luanti too if I wanted to. You still haven't implemented https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12694 00:38 shaft I NEED that. Everyone who wants texture packs NEEDS that. It can't be said often enough. 00:39 shaft It's was more important than gltf to me. 00:39 shaft Although having gltf now is good 00:40 MTDiscord shaft: Vulkan support is not a feature, it's an implementation detail. The question is which features Vulkan support enables them to implement efficiently. 00:40 shaft Whatever lets you cope. 00:40 MTDiscord Same to you, my friend 00:41 shaft My phone supports vulkan and it was cheap 00:41 MTDiscord shaft: A corollary of Sturgeon's Law is that there only is coping. 00:42 MTDiscord so shaft, we havent YOU implemented it then? 00:42 MTDiscord . s/we/why 00:43 shaft Whatever. Most outsiders I talk to about Luanti are still very butthurt that you are now engine developers rather than $NAME-clone developers. You shouldn't fail your target audience. 00:44 MTDiscord Bold of you to assume that was the target audience 00:44 shaft Yes, I talk to random people about Luanti. 00:44 MTDiscord That doesnt make them the target audience :^) 00:45 shaft Then who is the target audience? You're not creating a second Godot at the moment. 00:45 MTDiscord I believe engine developers have wished not to be VoxeLibre developers for like, a decade at this point? And they aren't, and it's good that way. 00:46 MTDiscord Ideally our target audience are game developers / modders. Those developers in turn have various player bases as target audiences. 00:46 shaft They should still take care of the needs of the two block tall character building games though and not neglect them. 00:47 MTDiscord We are still forced to directly have players as a target audience for the platform-ey parts of Luanti (mainmenu, serverlist, CDB etc.) but that's about it 00:47 MTDiscord Waterslide time 00:48 shaft How does this contradict what I said? 00:48 MTDiscord I think Luanti does currently fill a bit of a bittersweet spot where it's (at least initially) a good bit easier to get started with your voxel game, but eventually simply relatively hard to have everything be exactly the way you want if you need fancier features. 00:48 shaft I didn't say you're supposed to develop VoxeLibre 00:49 MTDiscord We are still taking care of the needs of the two block tall character building games 00:53 shaft Well maybe you should be a bit more. Texture packs for example are very much an aspect of the building games rather than Subway Miner 00:55 shaft Using soft symbolic links sucks ass. I don't even know if that works with the current distribution system even thought zip theoretically supports that 00:55 shaft though 01:00 [ my pinephone does not support vulkan 01:02 shaft Pinephone is overpriced trash. Even more than Vollaphone and that's a ripoff in most people's eyes. 01:03 shaft Vollaphone costs 450€ with Ubuntu Touch 01:03 shaft And has 1080p 01:04 shaft And 4GB RAM while pine has 2. Even the Pinephone pro has a shitty 720p screen 01:04 shaft Why are they such assholes? 01:05 shaft They had good marketing campaigns though. It was all over Youtube while barely anyone knows about Vollaphone 01:06 shaft I don't have a Vollaphone, so I can't say much about it but the specs of all pine products are terrible 01:06 shaft I'm sorry if that hurt you. Don't take it personally. 02:08 [MatrxMT] shaft: While I appreciate most people would still rather have free Minecraft than consider alternatives.. 02:08 [MatrxMT] I think anyone who's paid enough attention would realise Minetest and now Luanti were not trying to make an accurate Minecraft clone 02:09 [MatrxMT] they just happened to be supporting the needs of several games with engine features, and Mineclone2 (now VoxeLibre) happened to be somewhat influential 02:11 [MatrxMT] Luanti's key strength remains its low barrier to entry for modding, not huge potential performance upgrades and developer-customisation options like Godot 02:11 [MatrxMT] if all Luanti ends up as is helping people prototype games before moving to another engine, I would still say it has done a useful job 04:22 MTDiscord The pinephone ships with Mali 400 MP2 which came out in 2008 on a 200 dollar phone lol 04:22 MTDiscord It is anemic to say the least 04:36 MTDiscord I was going to look up information about opengl 2.1 but mesamatrix only goes back to 3.0 04:47 MTDiscord Only thing I can really find is people that are trying to decide between using opengl 2.1 and 3.1 and people recommending they use 3.1 so they're not stuck in fixed function 04:48 MTDiscord From 2012 to 2016 lol 08:53 [MatrxMT] I know it's a long shot asking on IRC (but I ain't using Discord)... 08:53 [MatrxMT] does anyone know who moderates the subreddit? 08:54 [MatrxMT] and how come the 5.10 and name change announcements weren't posted there? 08:59 MTDiscord We on the Discord know about as much as you 10:33 runxiyu I don't think Reddit was ever an official community space for MT 10:33 runxiyu But I don't know 11:14 erle rubenwardy did the pinned post, so … maybe? 11:14 rubenwardy I'm not a Reddit moderator 11:14 erle damn 11:14 rubenwardy You can see a list on the sidebar 11:15 rubenwardy There's a see moderators link somewhere 11:15 rubenwardy Tells you who manages the sunreddit 11:15 erle btw thanks for the cdb stats over time 13:58 erle Wuzzy luatic here is a blending issue (see how the background stone appears lighter?) https://mister-muffin.de/p/WbnB.png 14:17 [MatrxMT] afaik Reddit specifically doesn't have a page for a moderator list, or if it does, I need to be logged in 14:22 MTDiscord yes you need to log in to see the moderator list 14:22 MTDiscord sfan is a moderator, and I assume they're actively looking at the subreddit sometimes 14:54 MTDiscord For reproducable performance measurements: Is there a way to capture the content of what's ingame visible in F5 and F6 into a file? 15:32 celeron55 there's the setting profiler_print_interval 15:32 celeron55 which IIRC prints the F6 stuff at some log level at the give interval. I don't think there's anything for the F5 stuff though 15:34 celeron55 given* 15:35 celeron55 it's a good idea though. often you'd want all that stuff printed at e.g. a certain duration after startup, or once some amount of mapblocks were loaded on the client, or whatever 15:35 celeron55 maybe it would be a good use case for client side scripting 15:36 celeron55 or i guess usually just scripting when dealing with server or singleplayer 15:36 celeron55 but i'd suppose just a setting would work fine 17:52 shaft I'd prefer my entity not to get dark while inside my node. How do I do that? 17:59 shaft I tried to store it in paramtype2 instead of paramtype. That was wrong. 18:14 erle shaft look at chest/shulker node definition in mineclonia 18:14 shaft I already fixed it 18:15 erle both have an entity associated with a node 19:49 shaft Is there some trick to just apply materials to a nodebox like mesh in blender in the same way nodeboxes do from 6 sides? 20:07 ireallyhateirc dumb question: but why not blender? 20:08 erle why not nodeboxes? 20:08 shaft I meant nodebox-like 20:09 shaft Forgot the - 20:09 ireallyhateirc aaah okay, then it's easy 20:10 ireallyhateirc first you add materials to your mesh, then UV unwrap and assign vertices/faces to each material 20:10 ireallyhateirc then you need to add tiles to your node in the same order as materials in blender 20:10 ireallyhateirc got it or do you want me to give you an example? 20:11 shaft And I'd also like to know first if I can apply modifiers on export somehow and not save invisible objects I use in them? 20:11 shaft I'm such a blender noob 20:12 ireallyhateirc while exporting there's a checkbox for that, AFAIK all modifiers get applied automatically 20:12 MTDiscord Like you don't want to batch the geometry into the model? 20:13 erle shaft in mm3d you can do “select faces” and uncheck “include back-facing” and select all faces from one view direction, then apply the materials to it. not sure if that is what you want. 20:13 MTDiscord You might want to try block bench, it's open source as well. I think you might have a much easier time doing this nodebox emulation 20:14 ireallyhateirc shaft, that's the checkbox: https://files.catbox.moe/jpr0gj.png 20:14 ireallyhateirc it is switched on by default 20:15 ireallyhateirc shaft, as for invisible objects on the same screenshot you have the "Selection only" checkbox 20:15 shaft Okay, I managed to only export visible objects and apply the modifiers without doing manual labor first. 20:15 shaft This is step 1 20:16 ireallyhateirc also from my experience Blender doesn't export hidden objects? 20:16 ireallyhateirc unless it actually exports them but invisible, which would be stupid 20:16 shaft Now slowly explain how I apply the material stuff like to your grandfather. 20:17 ireallyhateirc ok, give me a second 20:17 erle jordan4ibanez given its requirements, i think mm3d is the easier thing here for low-poly models, but you do you 20:18 shaft I have added 3 materials to my object 20:19 shaft How do I apply them to the sides? 20:19 ireallyhateirc so 1. select your object and go to the Material tab 20:19 ireallyhateirc ah ok 20:19 shaft Where do I UV unwrap? 20:19 ireallyhateirc so now enter the edit mode 20:19 shaft ok 20:20 shaft In edit mode I have the cube without the modifiers applied. 20:21 shaft *cuboid 20:21 ireallyhateirc hmmm I think it would be easier if you watched some UV unwrapping tutorial first because me explaining it could take up to 5 minutes 20:21 shaft I will 20:22 ireallyhateirc I watched this when I was a noob: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JUNlj6mR0U 20:22 ireallyhateirc but long story short: you select an edge in Edit mode, press "U" and press "mark seam" 20:23 ireallyhateirc for simple boxes you cut them just as if it was a cube model in school 20:23 ireallyhateirc after marking edges you want you press "A" (selecting all vertices) and then "U" and "unwrap" 20:24 ireallyhateirc then in the UV Editing tab you should have your UV map on the left 20:24 ireallyhateirc but you need to add a texture so you can see what you're doing 20:24 ireallyhateirc you can do that in the shading tab 20:25 ireallyhateirc Worst case scenario I could record the process from A to B 20:27 shaft Do I need to apply my modifiers in order to do uv? 20:29 ireallyhateirc depends on the kind of modifier you use 20:29 shaft I use boolean modifiers 20:29 ireallyhateirc I've never used them, what are they for? cutting holes? 20:30 shaft Yes. Combining and cutting holes. They are amazing 20:30 ireallyhateirc generally speaking if you don't need the modifier anymore, just its effect then you can apply it 20:30 shaft I might want to edit the parts later though. 20:31 ireallyhateirc just copy the object to make a backup 20:31 ireallyhateirc keep the one with the modifier not applied 20:31 ireallyhateirc I'm not sure what's the impact of the boolean modifier on UV unwrapping 20:32 shaft Okay I've done that 20:33 shaft Okay I've unwrapped 20:33 shaft It's a fucking mess 20:36 ireallyhateirc experience is what makes you good at Blender, my first nodes 2 years ago weren't pretty either 20:37 shaft I added a texture from menu bar > image but it spans the whole uv unwrapping area 20:38 shaft What I want is to apply 3 different textures 20:39 ireallyhateirc uh oh, I'll record a tutorial for you 20:40 shaft Actually do I even need to unwrap it 20:40 shaft ? 20:40 shaft The way it looks before unwrapping in the uv tab seems way more practical. 20:43 ireallyhateirc you don't need to unwrap it if you're happy with the default UV map 20:46 shaft I've manually moved the faces in the UV editing section on top of each other in the way they belong (I think) 20:46 shaft How do assign a material to a section of the UV editing section? 20:49 ireallyhateirc shaft, you open the Material tab https://files.catbox.moe/i50yyx.png 20:49 ireallyhateirc then you select faces you want and press "assign" 20:50 ireallyhateirc you can confirm if the face was added successfully by clicking "deselect" and "select", then you'll see if you assigned the face correctly 20:52 shaft It colors my whole object 20:53 ireallyhateirc try assigning the other faces to another material 20:54 ireallyhateirc also check in the shading tab if you correctly assigned texture to each material 20:56 ireallyhateirc in the shading tab just click on each material and nodes displayed there will change depending on the material you clicked 21:03 ireallyhateirc Oook I managed to install the blender addon that shows pressed keys 21:07 shaft my mesh isn't that complex. I don't think i need to unwrap. I have all the 6 sides separated 21:07 shaft (not overlaying) 21:08 ireallyhateirc do you want me to record a tutorial for assigning materials? 21:09 MTDiscord Do it 21:11 shaft No. I just want to know how I make a rectangle in uv editing 2d thing and get a texture on that rectangle 21:12 shaft It can't be that hard. In theory it should work right? 21:12 ireallyhateirc make recrangle from what, a square? 21:13 shaft A square is fine too 21:14 ireallyhateirc so now you have what, nothing? 21:15 ireallyhateirc I could show something on that particular file if you send it to me 21:15 shaft I have a square with six squares in it. Can I not assign textures to it? 21:16 ireallyhateirc you should be able to do that. Can you send me at least a picture so I know what you're trying to do? 21:18 shaft https://litter.catbox.moe/6b6ptq.png 21:18 ireallyhateirc I see that you have overlapping UV islads, you want instead to have each on a separate texture, right? 21:19 shaft The middle 4 can be on one texture but the left and the right should have a separate texture 21:23 ireallyhateirc shaft, your tutorial: https://files.catbox.moe/xe1nv3.mp4 21:27 shaft I don't want to have 1 final texture files. Is that not possible with gltf? 21:27 ireallyhateirc where do you see 1 texture file? I did 2 files in the tutorial 21:28 ireallyhateirc upon export make sure to check "material groups" 21:30 shaft what does mark seam do? 21:33 ireallyhateirc a seam is a place where the texture is cut 21:33 ireallyhateirc basically it's like skinning an animal or an orange if you prefer 21:34 ireallyhateirc so you need to tell Blender that an edge is a seam - place where the texture is not continuous 21:35 ireallyhateirc if you don't add seams you will most likely get ugly bending 21:36 shaft Ah it fucking hit me. The shading thing helped. I see now why I should uv unwrap 21:37 shaft or not. Thinks are still not proportional to their scale 21:38 shaft Cube projection seems to do what i want 21:41 ireallyhateirc for easy meshes cube projection could work, yeah 21:41 ireallyhateirc I prefer manual unwrap anyway 21:53 BlacktonLaptop Has Minetest been renamed as Luanti? Or is that a fork or something? 21:53 BlacktonLaptop When I search and install it on Linux Mint now, it shows up as Minetest, but after installing it, it says it is Luanti. 21:53 MTDiscord yeah the engine's been renamed 21:54 BlacktonLaptop OK, doe it work? 21:54 BlacktonLaptop When I run it, it says "stack smashing detected" and shuts down again 21:56 MTDiscord rip 21:57 MTDiscord Stack corruption? 21:57 MTDiscord See if the same thing happens in the latest git 21:59 MTDiscord BlacktonLaptop: How are you installing Luanti / Minetest? 21:59 MTDiscord Stack smashing definitely shouldn't happen. 22:01 BlacktonLaptop Updating from within the game took me to the website, which had a button with a flatpack link, which took me into the Linux Mint installer for the flatpack. 22:01 BlacktonLaptop (software center) 22:01 MTDiscord Okay so it is the Flatpak 22:03 BlacktonLaptop Maybe, but I'm trying to update to be in sync with all the other people in the house for our group game, and they all installed that version without any problem. 22:03 MTDiscord Do they run different distros or distro versions? 22:03 BlacktonLaptop The non-flatpack version is already installed, but is a different version 22:03 BlacktonLaptop All using Linux Mint 22:03 BlacktonLaptop Yes, my Mint is older 22:04 MTDiscord Certainly weird. Would you be able to compile yourself? 22:05 BlacktonLaptop Maybe? 22:05 BlacktonLaptop Although our game time is rapidly running out 22:05 BlacktonLaptop You can't just download a binary or something off the website? 22:06 shaft I got it to look like how I want to now 22:06 MTDiscord BlacktonLaptop: On Linux this is unfortunately all a bit funnier 22:07 MTDiscord Doesn't linux mint use apt? Could use the repo 22:07 MTDiscord yeah i am researching that right now 22:07 BlacktonLaptop I'm trying to the stable ppa right now, which might be updated? 22:07 MTDiscord i also vaguely remember there being an appimage effort. did that go anywhere? 22:08 BlacktonLaptop But how do I install once I've updated apt? 22:08 BlacktonLaptop sudo apt install mine-test? 22:08 BlacktonLaptop Or luanti? 22:08 MTDiscord BlacktonLaptop: The stable PPA is up to date 22:08 MTDiscord sudo apt install minetest 22:09 MTDiscord Just make sure you uninstall your flatpak version 22:11 MTDiscord Though I guess the 2 shortcuts can coexist :^) 22:11 MTDiscord yeah flatpaks should be able to coexist with regular installations just fine 22:11 MTDiscord though it can be impossible to know which shortcut opens which if they use the same icon and name lol 22:20 MTDiscord https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100 22:50 BlacktonLaptop Yes, I uninstalled the flatpack. I kind of hate them anyway. They waste so much space. The stable ppa ended up making me ahead of everyone else, but it still let me join 23:03 erle BlacktonLaptop you could compile it yourself you know 23:04 erle BlacktonLaptop btw, luanti/minetest used to work fine using wine on x86/x86_64. i have not tested that recently, but you could do that. 23:04 erle You can't just download a binary or something off the website? 23:04 erle ;) 23:04 erle just use windows binary hahaha 23:04 ireallyhateirc stable ppa sounds like an oxymoron, they always break stuff, usually on machines I babysit for less able users 23:05 MTDiscord alternatively there is an appimage 23:42 erle ROllerozxa why did you not mention which mods are outdated and which files in which packages contain non-free assets? 23:42 erle like this is super vague https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2024/11/msg00246.html 23:44 erle ROllerozxa i told emorrp1 (from debian games) to maybe check if the version of the package exists on cdb (if it does, you can not possibly have meant that version as a problematic one), but if you know something, please assist