Time  Nick            Message
00:54 Migdyn          Can I get an unban on CDB?
03:24 swift110-mobile Sup folks
03:24 swift110-mobile Migdyn: Luanti is the new name
03:24 swift110-mobile I’m saying it often so I’ll remember
07:22 thomas15        hallo Leute, ich bin der admin des Minetest Bildungsservers und der startet nicht mehr. Brauche dringend kompetente Hilfe beim Kompilieren von minetest auf dem Server. Hat jemand Zeit?
07:37 Krock           thomas15: wir haben sogar einen separaten, deutschsprachigen Kanal -> #minetest-de
07:38 thomas15        ah, noch besser
07:38 thomas15        hast du Ahnung vom Kompilieren von minetest?
09:24 Ingar           is there a button to switch from/to fullscreen ?
09:31 Krock           Ingar: F11 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/settingtypes.txt#L2423-L2424
09:32 Krock           see settings menu
09:57 erle            Migdyn why were you banned on cdb?
14:30 Migdyn          erle: for responding to a troll in a somewhat rude manner
15:01 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Lol, never ask somebody why they were banned from anything if you want an honest answer 😆
15:03 MTDiscord       <warr1024> The standard answer is of course "because the admins are arbitrary tyrants and assholes."
15:10 erle            warr1024 i somehow suspect that “responding in a somewhat rude manner” is close to the truth though
15:10 erle            the word “somewhat” probably taking on a large burden
15:20 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Heh, well I suppose you can sometimes tease out the deeper meaning, yeah.
15:20 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Though bans often happen for a lot of reasons, and you end up only hearing about the last straw.
15:21 MTDiscord       <warr1024> It's not always problems under a single common theme either. Somebody might have problems with the comments they've been posting AND be a repeat and unrepentant copyright infringer, and which incident leads to their final ban is a toss up.
15:22 MTDiscord       <luatic> I remember the Migdyn situation quite differently from how they are portraying it here (as someone who wasn't involved in banning them) but I can't be arsed to dig that back up. Feel free to do your own digging if you mind more than me.
15:34 erle            Warr1024 given that i have been banned from places i never were for things i never did by people who never met me or interacted with me online or offline i think it's not always clear-cut
15:36 erle            but last time someone told me on IRC someone was banned from a project ”for their opinions” it turned out the people alleged that person had argued in favor of child marriage on twitter. but without seeing those tweets (and everything else pointing to that person just being a regular pervert, not the creepy kind), i can't tell you more than “if someone is very vague, it's probably bullshit”.
15:38 erle            luatic grorp idk if you saw it, but the rendering issues i had ONLY happened with unifont so far
15:52 Migdyn          luatic: I didn't do anything on CDB that violated the rules other than that one instance of saying something mildly offensive to a troll and minor copyright violations in one of my games that I wasn't aware of but fixed promptly once I found out
15:54 Migdyn          erle: Projects that ban people for opinions expressed outside of official project channels are the worst
15:54 Migdyn          Sadly that's close to 90% of the more prominent free software porjects these days :(
15:55 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Haha, I love how "I tried to scribble over Minecraft textures and assumed I wouldn't be immediately found out, and then when people called me out on it I publicly lied about it, not expecting incontrovertible proof of the lie to be promptly posted" turns into "minor copyright violations that I immediately corrected"
15:56 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Tbh I'm kind of surprised you didn't earn your ban at that point, but I guess we've never actually had a rule against bad faith.
15:56 erle            Migdyn well, i'd ban an unapologetic fascist
15:56 erle            Warr1024 what was the bad faith, lying about it?
15:56 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Yeah
15:57 Migdyn          Those were textures that I took from an older Minetest game I made in I think 2018 and by the time I released the newer game I completely forgot abotu the origin of those textures and genueinely thought I created them from scratch
15:57 erle            that's also how i try to distinguish mistakes from malice
15:57 Migdyn          erle: Even if they're a good programmer/contributor/whatever?
15:57 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Violating copyright on an "oops I didn't understand that it worked that way" kind of basis is really understandable, but a blatant lie about the origin of textures is a much different story.
15:58 erle            Migdyn especially then. i'd also ban people who insult others if they don't like their bug reports. being bad at coding is easier to fix than bad manners.
15:59 Migdyn          The "blatant lie" wasn't a blatan lie at all, as I already said, at that point in time I DID THINK that iwas the author of those textures and that they were simply inspired by MC's
15:59 erle            in fact, i think too many projects/chats are too lax about what they allow and at the same time think that “doing something, not requiring proof” is a good thing.
15:59 MTDiscord       <luatic> erle: I will have to think about that last sentence a lot :P
15:59 MTDiscord       <luatic> the last sentence before that message that is (average chat race condition)
16:00 erle            luatic “context-free or regular” also works for chats or conversations with people who have autism
16:00 MTDiscord       <warr1024> It's possible to accept people who have troubling behavior into a project, but to keep the project healthy, you often have to put a certain amount of work into insulating them and the public from one another, and that changes the net value of their overall contributions, making it a lot harder to still be worth it.  If even you can't work with them, then it's not even feasible anyway.
16:00 erle            luatic or attention deficit
16:01 erle            Warr1024 oh i can totally work with people who despise me. it's just that it drives others away if someone is constantly insulting.
16:01 erle            or if someone is predictably insulting if some topics are brought up
16:01 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Migdyn, it's actually hilarious that you continue to maintain that your blatant lie wasn't a blatant lie when the proof is still available in the discord history, and even people who don't want to join discord can easily ask any of the members to dig up the screenshots.
16:02 erle            took me some time to learn, but i know some people distanced themselves from a group i was in in which a person constantly slightly insulted/belittled me and the person who distanced themselves did not like to experience that, while i had a thick-enough skin to shrug it off.
16:02 MTDiscord       <csperson> It sounds like they'd genuinely forgotten
16:03 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Taking the pencil tool and scribbling random junk over the Minecraft leaves texture is way beyond any stretch of "merely inspired by" that anyone could justify. The fact that it was trivially proven that this was your actual process is what makes the lie blatant.
16:05 MTDiscord       <csperson> they're not currently claiming that they made the textures themselves from what i can tell, in fact they're claiming the exact opposite seemingly. So, not sure where the "continuing to maintain the blatent lie" thing is coming from.
16:05 MTDiscord       <warr1024> erle, yeah, in a way somebody who genuinely despises you but does so for honest reasons that make some kind of sense, but has a genuine sense of responsibility to the project, is probably better than someone who is just generally trolly and wants to cause random trouble.
16:06 MTDiscord       <luatic> erle: I love regular grammars. It's not very satisfying that only certain kinds of CFGs can be parsed efficiently.
16:06 MTDiscord       <warr1024> @csperson they lied about it at the time, and they're lying now by saying that they weren't lying then.
16:07 Migdyn          I didn't say that I wasn't lying at the time it took place; all im saying is that I didn't lie WITH THE INTENTION TO DECEIVE ANYONE
16:07 erle            Warr1024 the reasons don't need to make sense, they just need to not get in the way. like i can't work very well with people who get extremely upset when they refucktor something and break something during that and i propose to revert it.
16:08 Migdyn          because the textures were 4-5 years old at that point and I did not remember their origin
16:08 erle            if you don't remember the origin and claimed to make it yourself, it is still a lie about provenance
16:08 MTDiscord       <csperson> Sounds more like it was an unintentional lie at the time. Sure, they claimed something that wasn't true. But they now realize their mistake it seems.
16:08 MTDiscord       <luatic> The definition of lying implies intention to deceive. You're trying to claim that were mistaken, but not lying.
16:08 MTDiscord       <luatic> you were*
16:09 MTDiscord       <csperson> it doesn't sound like there was intention to decieve, thats the thing
16:09 erle            Migdyn try to see it like that, even by being careless you are making the work of cdb admins harder
16:10 erle            or cdb mods or whatever they are called
16:10 MTDiscord       <wsor4035> iirc migdyn has been perma banned from cdb twice
16:10 erle            being perma banned twice seems like an achievement
16:10 erle            like why was it taken back the first time?
16:10 erle            or was the second ban evasion?
16:10 MTDiscord       <wsor4035> iirc so they could participate in one of the game jams
16:10 MTDiscord       <wsor4035> ironically similar to now
16:13 erle            maybe cdb could have a “this user is in the top 5% of banned users by ban count” similar to the top reviews thing :D
16:13 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Yeah, we've extended a LOT of redemption opportunities.  We've learned our lesson; it won't happen again.
16:14 erle            fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice, can't get fooled again!
16:15 MTDiscord       <warr1024> Lol, there's so much going on in that quote.
16:17 erle            :D
16:18 MTDiscord       <warr1024> I couldn't tell how much he genuinely forgot how the saying goes, and how much he realized halfway through what it really meant and didn't like the implication XD
16:20 erle            it's a misquote ;)
16:20 erle            the original is “fool me once, shame on you […]”
16:21 erle            Warr1024 i think bush jr. may have not liked the implication of having a soundbite that said “shame on me”
16:27 MTDiscord       <warr1024> That's what I figured.  The point of the saying is that you CAN get fooled again, but if you do, then you now have to share in the responsibility for being fooled, and that's like the exact opposite of what he wanted to convey 😆
16:28 MTDiscord       <warr1024> I mean the saying works because the implication is that the entire premise of you invoking the saying is that you KNOW someone is trying to fool you, but maybe that's too many layers for a speech that's going to get chopped up into soundbytes.
16:30 erle            also i remember reading that bush jr was smart but found that playing a bumbling fool was more popular with voters. maybe related?
16:30 erle            like bojo
17:25 MinetestBot     02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/serverlist: Apply Luanti rename 137795110 https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/77951100b9a0f480b362636e7bce7b1689794743 (152024-11-02T17:25:05Z)
19:10 Mantar          Bush Jr was smart when he was young, but many years of alcoholism will take a toll on cognitive ability
20:43 MinetestBot     02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Use content.luanti.org (#15360) 13ba370d9 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ba370d984146ee5041dbf46b256be76d19577608 (152024-11-02T20:40:33Z)
20:43 MinetestBot     02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use servers.luanti.org (#15369) 13e952a08 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e952a0807b85e089eaa320cfeb09e33816d141ed (152024-11-02T20:40:45Z)