Time Nick Message 02:01 AlexiosTheSixth testing 02:01 AlexiosTheSixth oh nice it works 03:57 Guest6 Hi 07:55 bjse are there any plans to make minetest good? 07:55 bjse for example mobs? that are close to minecraft's 07:58 Mantar no, everybody wants to make minetest bad, on purpose 07:59 Mantar it's an elaborate decade-plus-long prank 08:12 bjse what is the motivation behind it? 08:12 bjse making a working mobs shouldn't be a task that world's community can achieve for a decade, there are open source games that got ai enemies right. what is the issue here? 08:13 bjse *that ... can't 08:39 Mantar define "working mobs" 08:40 bjse Mantar moving around and all like the ones in MC. and for other mobs - attacking 08:40 Mantar install a mobs mod, silly 08:41 Mantar go play mineclone2 or mineclonia if you want "like MC" 08:42 Mantar we've had mobs that move around and attack since forever, you just need to install them 08:42 Mantar and "like the ones in MC" is an explicit goal of Mineclone 08:55 bjse I will check it out 10:56 bjse14 how MT implements movement on terrain in Irrlicht? Irr doesn't have anything for that, it's all coded in MT? 10:57 sfan5 you mean collision detection? 10:57 bjse14 with the terrain, yes 10:58 sfan5 that's inside MT 10:58 bjse14 myself I look for a library that can do basic C++ rendering but also allows walking. I guess most small free engines do not go that far 10:58 bjse14 ok  Isee 10:58 bjse14 in voxel world that is pretty easy :) 11:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Restrict lua_api_deploy workflow to main repo 13bac7d32 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bac7d323690d4f79e96e2908da8f56d1ac662b9c (152024-03-24T10:50:41Z) 11:30 bjse14 why Irrlicht was used, instead for example Ogre3d or other libs? any importants pros for MT project? 11:45 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Restrict lua_api_deploy workflow to main repo 13b42b03b https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b42b03bc4062eb8dca004b7787ce557d1b4c936e (152024-03-24T11:42:50Z) 11:47 swift110-mobile Lol imagine wanting things already present in minetest 12:08 Krock bjse14: it's a relatively light-weight cross-platform framework that comes with GUI elements and useful utility functions. better ask c_e_l_e_r_o_n_5_5 directly if you'd like to know the story 12:08 MTDiscord bjse14: you'd have to ask celeron that question ca. 1.5 decades ago ;) 12:09 bjse14 celeron55_ why you picked Irrlicht back in your day? 12:10 bjse14 good that choice appears at least not-bad, as it's still alive and all (AFAIK). Unlike crystalspace (ded) or some others probably 12:11 sfan5 irrlicht is dead 12:14 Krock apolgy for bad english 12:14 Krock where were u wen irrliche die 12:14 Krock i was at house eating diroto when phone ring 12:14 Krock "Irrlicht is kil" 12:14 Krock "no" 12:14 bjse14 sfan5 well your fork keeps it alive 12:15 sfan5 i guess irrlichtmt is technically an engine but there's no intention for anyone except Minetest using it 12:15 bjse14 should they? 12:15 sfan5 no 12:16 MTDiscord I think there are very likely better / more modern engines for C++ (and other languages) around these days. Irrlicht has not seen major modernization AFAIK. 12:16 bjse14 *messes with time*  ... I _will_ uze it! 12:17 bjse14 aaaaargh it's discord 12:17 * bjse14 sturtles 12:17 bjse14 modern tech is shit. 2005-2015 was the golden time 12:17 sfan5 "major modernization" is an understatement when it's still stuck on c++03, d3d9 and opengl 1.x 12:18 * bjse14 iterates loops with boost_fore... eee wait that's even too new probly lol 12:18 * bjse14 binds _1 12:19 MTDiscord sfan5: wait irrlicht is still on c++03? o.0 12:19 bjse14 at least it should work on EVERYTHING then 12:19 bjse14 but upgrade to c++14 shouldn't hurt.  just write new code in it, leave old as is 12:20 MTDiscord bjse14: yes, that's what was done in irrlichtmt 12:20 bjse14 sfan5 what engine would you use if starting today?  (and what for very small, and aiming to be very light open and portable) 12:20 MTDiscord in fact we're even upgrading to c++17 because that's what minetest uses 12:21 bjse14 17? I hope redhat has that xD 12:21 MTDiscord bjse14: what kind of game are you trying to write, and in what language? 12:21 MTDiscord bjse14: well c++17 should be ~7 years old by now.. 12:22 bjse14 luatic C++. for now a small project where I:  generate in code a small map.  think of crawl/dungeon labirynt. few rooms.  then I need to walk on it (including wall collisions, jumping, running, FPS mouselook).    bonus points: have radiosity (probably 2step process: generate -> bake the map lightmaps -> play game) 12:23 bjse14 heh I could aaaalmost use minetest itself, but I do need a bit more complex map than just voxels.. e.g. don't want to make it impossible to have non-grid rooms 12:24 MTDiscord heh, i think everybody who uses C++ tends to write their own game engine in the end lol 12:25 sfan5 bjse14: I'm not actually a good games programmer so that's not a question I can answer well 12:25 bjse14 in this case I was _hoping_  for #include ok_engine.h   and then  add_cubes()   and   for(;;) { world->walk_etc(); }  and be done 12:26 bjse14 but then I guess foss community doesn't have a ready to use program/lib where you add objects and walk on them. Ogre3d has objects/add but lacks real walking.   perhaps ogre3d + collision detection libs will be good enough but then its a day+ instead just taking a ready thing 12:27 bjse14 in irrlicht there isn't any code to allow me to walk on things?   what is there, just mesh ray collision detection? 13:21 MTDiscord Add objects and walk on them? Well you should try lovr or godot 13:23 MTDiscord But if you want to do it from sdl or glfw and you must glue together your libraries 13:25 MTDiscord And by glue I mean you hold the positions from the physics library like project chrono, into your rendering pipeline like vulkano with vulkan 13:29 bjse24 sfan5 given choice between Ogre3d, and Irrlicht, what would you used today for MT? 13:29 bjse24 *irrlichtMT 13:31 bjse (back) 13:32 bjse sfan5 also, integrating a lib into MT seems a bad idea. if you keep irrlichtMT separate, and someone would use it, it's better for health of project 13:38 proller try https://github.com/Zylann/godot_voxel 13:38 MTDiscord The rest of it I was kinda like yes yes that's true mhm 13:39 Dr_Dinnerbone hellon there 13:39 MTDiscord Ain't NO ONE in their right mind gonna pick up irrlicht minetest as a base engine 13:40 bjse jordan4ibanez why not 13:40 MTDiscord Integrating a lib into minetest is a bad idea because C++ has no package manager and those aftermarket duct taped on, non standardized ones do not count 13:42 bjse well I am of the opinion lib should be a lib, not integrated into a program, of course.  how ever "C++ has no package manager" not sure what you mean exactly, it's normal for all things being a separate library in C++ and that isn't a proble 13:42 MTDiscord Because it's a volatile, extremely outdated, duct taped together solution due to being rooted throughout the entire project cause of excessive inheritance over composition style and if you do not realize this you haven't looked through the code and you're making suggestions blindly 13:43 MTDiscord Yes, this is the exact problem, C++ has no package manager, go get it yourself 13:43 MTDiscord So we're gonna unproblem this and dump it straight into the game 13:45 bjse22 maybe libc too 13:45 bjse22 what a nonsensical idea to dump a lib into a project :o 13:50 MTDiscord I can clearly see you have not looked into the lib folders yet, or the lib folders in the irrlicht mt repository which means the lib will have libs 13:50 MTDiscord This isn't rust, it's the wild west 13:52 bjse22 not sure what is the problem here, that's normal that libs use own libraries. all programs do that, but I think that would be a first (or very rare) when library using programs takes over it and loses the separation and order 13:53 MTDiscord Yes yes, let's continue that logic: So minetest will have it's mt-irrlicht library as part of it as the normality, dumped into the minetest project like those other libs will, as mt-irrlicht is just another library 14:19 MTDiscord I agree with Jordan that you should probably not use Irrlicht for a new project. 16:27 sfan5 forbidden tip: store rgb colors in the Lua vector() type 16:28 rubenwardy chaotic good 16:29 MTDiscord sfan5: as long as they are linear rgb and not sRGB it's ok ;) 17:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add world-independent storage directory for mods (#12315) 136c4a110 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6c4a110679b2c39bf5518aa395145789d05dda60 (152024-03-24T17:18:58Z) 17:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add button_url[] and hypertext element to allow mods to open web page… 1324cc33e https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/24cc33e7046fc4b90bf8e1b2fd2546c699fc6eee (152024-03-24T17:19:23Z) 17:55 MinetestBot 02[git] 04AFCMS -> 03minetest/minetest: Docker image workflow (publish on `ghcr.io`) (#14230) 135a27c05 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5a27c05b6a0c839bfdb59d7536ad9163b4bdf5c0 (152024-03-24T17:54:09Z) 17:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ryvnf -> 03minetest/minetest: Update docs to allow non-liquid nodes to use "liquid" drawtype 1320bfaba https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/20bfaba0b74dd0e4d23b62659bc68c169171f2de (152024-03-24T17:56:29Z) 17:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04grorp -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace antipattern translation example in lua_api.md (#14482) 13a7908da https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a7908da968bba82129f60c9601c9cefabd36a389 (152024-03-24T17:56:41Z)