Time Nick Message 00:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix bad translation function names in builtin (#13977) 13af474d1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/af474d10a43b3e430c6f083132f1f12626a03a61 (152023-11-10T00:00:17Z) 09:52 sfan5 @grorp probably not hard to implement, IIRC only some minor reworks needed in the code 10:17 erle Lifetime unique downloads 10:17 erle 14 10:17 erle Downloads, past 7 days 10:17 erle 17 2 per day 10:17 erle rubenwardy how can this be? 10:18 rubenwardy how can what be 10:18 rubenwardy "unique" 10:19 rubenwardy some IP addresses downloaded more than once 10:19 erle ohhh that's what it means 10:19 erle thank you 10:19 erle makes sense, i already released 3 versions of xcam 10:20 erle rubenwardy are there any plans for making the screenshots that are shown in the content tab viewable in a bigger resolution in the client? i feel that would be a massive improvement. 10:21 rubenwardy yes: #13820 10:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13820 -- Redesign main menu content browser by rollerozxa 10:21 erle thanks! 10:54 erle rubenwardy is there any downside to setting item picture on the photos and still set the metadata? like, i can have photos in older versions of minetest (like 5.7) that have a static icon instead of dynamic, and it still would be dynamic in the new version, right? 10:56 erle explanation: you could still put the entities on the wall 11:48 erle left photo has depth of field blur 0.5, right photo has depth of field blur 0.2, what is better? https://mister-muffin.de/p/6jvh.png 18:06 DeepThgt i hope the bug that causes sunlight in caves at times never gets fixed 18:07 erle DeepThgt when exactly does that happen? 18:07 erle is the cave very big? 18:08 DeepThgt right now, im at the bottom of a hole being dug by a quarry, its about 14x14x500 right now 18:08 DeepThgt -12134 underground 18:09 DeepThgt https://imgur.com/W15TTDq.png 18:09 DeepThgt there is no light source anywhere near, and this has several thousand layers of rock above it 18:10 DeepThgt if i had to guess its due to the rest of the mapblocks above me not being in memory/sent to the client so it assumes sky is above 18:11 DeepThgt but thats an uneducated guess 18:14 DeepThgt which i guess is a polite way of saying i have no clue what the hell im talking about\ 18:18 erle DeepThgt i am pretty sure that the light banks are calculated on the server 18:18 erle but i am not sure 18:18 erle wait i am 18:19 erle you can fix or fuck up light on the server 18:19 DeepThgt either way useful bug/feature 18:19 DeepThgt lol 18:20 DeepThgt someone correct me if im wrong, but isnt multicraft technically violating the lgpl 18:21 erle how? 18:21 erle what is it doing 18:22 DeepThgt You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. If you link other code with the library, you must provide complete object files to the recipients, so that they can relink them with the library after making changes to the library and recompiling it. 18:22 DeepThgt how is that possible with multicraft on iOS 18:22 ROllerozxa DeepThgt: I don't think there's much anyone can do about it 18:22 DeepThgt so, im not wrong just crap all can be done? 18:23 mmuller If the copyright is FSF owned, the FSF could sue them. They have in other circumstances. 18:26 erle ROllerozxa uh i am sure you could just identify a copyright holder and sue 18:27 erle ROllerozxa that is how OpenWRT stuff got big 18:27 erle someone sued linksys or so 18:27 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation,_Inc._v._Cisco_Systems,_Inc. 18:27 erle > On May 20, 2009, the parties announced a settlement that included Cisco appointing a director to ensure Linksys products comply with free-software licenses, and Cisco making an undisclosed financial contribution to the FSF.[9][10] 18:28 erle the linksys WRT54GL marketing was VERY funny 18:28 erle it had like a warning sticker on the cardboard case it came in 18:28 erle CONTAINS GPL SOFTWARE or so 18:34 ROllerozxa erle: we would probably first need advice from a lawyer if the way they embed proprietary binary blobs into the engine violates the LGPLv2.1 18:36 ROllerozxa but I don't think there's many of the larger engine contributors who want to stick their head out for it, so... they can do whatever they want at this point, I guess 18:38 celeron55 because the contributions have been personally made, everyone would have to personally sue multicraft. that's generally not worth it if you're a human being with a limited lifespan and limited money 18:38 rubenwardy I think only major contributors would need to 18:38 celeron55 ah i don't mean "everyone" as in every contributor 18:38 celeron55 i mean everyone who sues 18:38 erle didn't that work out with busybox though? 18:38 rubenwardy ah, anyone not everyone 18:38 erle let me look it up 18:39 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busybox#GPL_lawsuits 18:39 erle > In late 2007, BusyBox also came to prominence for actively prosecuting violations of the terms of its license (the GPL) in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York.[17] 18:39 rubenwardy MT legal department time 18:39 erle > On December 14, 2009, a new lawsuit was filed naming fourteen defendants including Best Buy, JVC, Samsung and others.[29][30][31] In February 2010 Samsung released its LN52A650 TV firmware under GPLv2 18:40 celeron55 the main thing you need is a lawyer who thinks they'll make big money for themselves out of the gpl violator by suing them 18:40 erle you don't necessarily 18:40 celeron55 after that it'll be reasonably easy 18:40 erle i mean some lawyers are actually also activists in a way 18:40 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Law_Center 18:40 erle > The Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) is an organization that provides pro bono legal representation and related services to not-for-profit developers of free software/open source software. 18:41 erle pro bono means for the public good 18:41 erle i.e. voluntarily and without necessarily a big payment 18:41 rubenwardy In this case, it's the terms of the app store that are dumb. Multicraft isn't withholding code afaik 18:41 celeron55 well they do need to get paid 18:42 celeron55 the thing about apple's app store is that in order to list your app you have to (statically?) link it with their proprietary libraries, right? 18:44 celeron55 LGPL allows it if you distribute also a version where you can replace the LGPL code and re-link with the libraries, and then use the result 18:45 celeron55 i have no idea whether multicraft is doing that in some way that could be considered "at least trying" 18:58 erle celeron55 what about sending them a letter asking for said object code to relink hehe 18:59 MTDiscord The problem is that no matter how much external foundations want to fund or assist, there's no way for a (C) lawsuit to go forward without any involvement whatsoever of an actual copyright holder, and I just don't think anyone is actually willing to deal with that. 19:00 erle if you can identify a non-trivial contribution of mine to minetest that has not be refucktored to be unrecognizable and i'll consider it 19:00 erle (git blame is not helping here sadly) 19:01 MTDiscord It would also need to be a contribution made early enough to be shared across the fork, so it's not like somebody could just get a PR merged now to make this work either. 19:03 erle i am pretty sure that the majority of my commit activity was in 2011 or so :P 19:03 erle but i am also pretty sure that almost all of that has been rewritten over time 19:05 MTDiscord I don't know if that disqualifies it though. When code is modified or refactored, the resulting code doesn't just poof away your contributions, but it's actually probably a derivative. 19:05 MTDiscord You'd have to talk to a lawyer, ideally one of the aforementioned who specializes in this kind of shit, though. 19:05 celeron55 i think it's going to be very difficult if the current code doesn't resemble the original contribution at all 19:05 celeron55 not worth it 19:06 jonadab DeepThgt: The problem with share-alike-licensed anything on iOS isn't copyright; it's that uploading said content violates Apple's developer terms of service. However, as far as I know, people who install and use it aren't violating anything. 19:06 MTDiscord A lot of it may come down to what they think they can get a jury to understand/believe (or what they think they can get the opposing counsel to believe that a jury would believe, to influence the settlement deal) 19:06 erle well i did add the rail drawtype, how much could it have changed over time? :D 19:06 erle and the 3d clouds lol 19:06 jonadab (This is assuming that there's a public website where the source code can be downloaded, of course.) 19:07 celeron55 erle: both have gone through at least one heavy refactor 19:07 celeron55 you'd have to manually read the code and see 19:21 erle haha, i just realized i am the only person who can print minetest logo on shirt without having to also print a creative commons attribution hint hehehe 19:21 erle (legally) 19:22 erle i wonder how i can spurdofy that logo 19:22 erle if i figure it out i will print one and offer to send it to a place of choice of celeron55 hehehe 19:22 erle maybe just instead of the oerkki (add it back in!!!) have a spurdo lurk in the cave 19:23 erle anyways, i think i found a good use case for unicode_text that does not create signs 19:23 erle speech bubbles that display unicode 19:33 celeron55 if you design a shirt even remotely related to minetest and get it printed at a reputable place for a reasonable price i'm sure multiple people would like to buy them 19:34 celeron55 of course a spurdo might act as a deterrent. certainly not for me though 19:35 rubenwardy I read speedo there. Minetest speedos when? 19:35 celeron55 "it was finnished all along" 19:40 ROllerozxa minetest shirts? o.o 19:40 jonadab minetest Halloween costumes when? 19:45 MTDiscord minetest shirts without attribution already sound like scary Halloween costume 😉 19:45 MTDiscord @erle print the entire CC license at the back of the shirt, or on a very long shirt tag 19:45 erle yes lol 19:46 MTDiscord well, not you I guess though you could still do it by choice 19:46 celeron55 the only person who could print the logo without the license decides to print his face plus the entire license on the shirt, with a small minetest logo at the corner 19:46 erle anyone else wearing it would be violating the license haha 19:47 erle the shirt i got today was this one (made it in inkscape, CW: very slightly lewd) https://mister-muffin.de/p/FDfV.jpg 19:48 erle the people from the copyshop that also does shirts seemed a bit amused that i wanted this shirt to be printed and also spurdo stickers hehe 19:48 jonadab I don't think that's how copyright law works. It's the person who distributes the copies (in this case, the person selling the shirt) who is principally responsible for any infringement. I don't think _wearing_ the shirt would violate anything, unless distributing it does so. 19:49 jonadab So if the copyright holder is selling the shirt, anybody who buys it can wear it, I believe. 19:49 erle but if you photograph it and the license is on the back then the backface culling of nature will make you violate the licensing hehe 19:49 erle :D 19:49 erle unless you and the shirt are transparent obv 19:49 celeron55 yes if the print on the shirt is the main point of the photo, then yes 19:49 MTDiscord being photographed in the shirt and distributing that photo could be an issue though 19:49 celeron55 and you redistribute the photo without adding the CC license hint 19:50 erle well, the print on that shirt is the main point of the image 19:50 ROllerozxa erle: lol is that cat ears on the O there 19:50 erle i'm wearing it ^_^ 19:50 jonadab If you hang up the shirt as straight as possible and photograph it to create an image of the logo, that violates copyright, yes. 19:50 jonadab If you take a photo of a group of people and one of them is wearing the shirt, this is where the word "transformative" becomes highly relevant. 19:50 erle ROllerozxa happy that it's recognizable. here's the SVG: http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/onlytrans.svg 19:51 erle i also thought of making some that says OnlyFriends 19:51 ROllerozxa omg I didn't even notice it said "onlytrans" lmao, I just saw the cat ears on it 19:52 erle guess my jokes have layers 19:52 erle (because they are delivered in SVG form) 19:53 jonadab SVG doesn't have layers; it has objects, which is not exactly the same thing. For layers, use .xcf 19:53 erle i guess this can be considered a success hehehehe 19:53 erle damn nerds 19:53 erle is very useful though 19:55 MTDiscord minetest logo shirt with CC printed on top with photosensitive color lol 19:56 erle minetest logo shirt but intentionally rendered gamma-incorrect 19:56 erle “the blonde who knows about fabric printing” (that's what her coworkers called her) started laughing when i asked about if the printer is gamma-correct actually 19:57 jonadab Color rotated, R->G->B->R 19:57 erle she was like “COME ON, most people here come with random JPEGs they downloaded” 19:57 erle then she showed me that one of their printers has a fucky colorspace 19:57 erle she had printed some dots on a shirt 19:57 erle and pointed to two purple ones and said “one of those, i do not remember which one, was supposed to be blue“ 19:58 erle jokingly i pointed out two orange dots and was like “so was one of these supposed to be red?” 19:58 erle and she said “yes” and sighed lol 19:58 erle the test prints at the store feature darkwing duck and gargoyles 19:58 erle makes it easy to estimate the ages of the employees responsible for those hehe 19:59 erle the story behind the fucky colorspace was apparently that the printer is a bit older 19:59 erle and the one guy who knew how to calibrate it stopped responding 19:59 erle so now they do not know how to do it 19:59 erle and just tell people well if you want that on your shirt, the colors are going to be a bit off: no 100% blue, no 100% red 20:00 jonadab I mean, one of those things is very modern (1990s IIRC) and the other is medieval. 20:00 erle uh 20:00 erle gargoyles was a tv show 20:00 jonadab ... I see. 20:00 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyles_(TV_series) 20:00 jonadab I thought it was an architectural feature. 20:00 erle > aired from October 24, 1994 to February 15, 1997 20:00 erle > Gargoyles was noted for its relatively dark tone, complex story arcs, and melodrama; character arcs were heavily employed throughout the series, as were Shakespearean themes. 20:01 erle i am amazed sometimes what passed for children's series back in the days hehe 20:01 erle though i am pretty sure that today the same is true 20:01 jonadab Technically, I think Darkwing Duck originated in the late eighties, but he didn't get his own show until, umm, not sure exactly when, but later. 20:01 erle [[random magical girl existential crisis mode activated]] 20:01 erle i knew darkwing duck WAY before i knew he was a batman rip-off 20:02 jonadab He was a batman ripoff, specifically? 20:02 jonadab I mean, I knew he was obviously a spoof comic-book superhero character. 20:02 jonadab But I hadn't made the connection to Batman. 20:03 erle well he is not super rich 20:03 erle hmm 20:03 erle but he relies on his gadgets 20:03 jonadab No, all the money in that franchise belonged to Scrooge. 20:03 jonadab I mean, Gizmoduck also relies on gadgets. 20:03 erle > arkwing Duck himself is a satirical character. His costume, gas gun and flashy introductions are all reminiscent of pulp heroes and Golden Age superheroes such as The Shadow, The Sandman, Doc Savage, Batman, The Green Hornet and the Julius Schwartz Flash, as well as The Lone Ranger and Zorro. 20:03 erle haha arkwing 20:04 jonadab Ok, yes, *that* paragraph makes sense to me. 20:04 erle “arkwing duck” sounds like the ace combat strangereal version 20:04 jonadab Although I only know about half of those characters. Was never into comic books. 20:04 erle well the thing is 20:04 erle st. canard, the city 20:04 erle is a lot like gothham 20:04 erle i bet i got the batman vibes from that 20:04 erle btw, i think the greatest in terms of aesthetics is tale spin 20:04 erle in german: balu und seine crew 20:05 erle it pretty much nails the interwar aesthetic 20:05 jonadab I always figured Gotham was basically New York City, except not explictly saying so. 20:05 jonadab Same as Metropolis. 20:05 erle you have flying boats and art deco 20:06 erle finding out that the catalina PBY was a real airplane was a weird moment 20:06 erle (the “sea duck” plane that captain balu flies in tale spin) 20:06 erle https://talespin.fandom.com/wiki/Sea_Duck 20:07 jonadab Right, I knew float planes were real, didn't know that one was modeled after a *specific* model of real-world plane, but it looked typical of the genre, albeit cartoonified. 20:07 erle > The Sea-Duck is based on a combination of the Fairchild C-82 Packet, Grumman HU-16 Albatross (made by Grumman, the predecessor company of Northrop Grumman) and Consolidated PBY Catalina. 20:07 erle yeah and they got these little things right 20:07 erle like the mass medium is radio 20:08 erle very indiana jones-y 20:08 erle and very pulp 20:08 jonadab My sister (who was still in elementary school at the time) was super into Duck Takes. 20:08 erle duck takes lol 20:08 jonadab *Tales 20:08 erle hot take 20:09 erle and i liked sheer khan as the evil-but-not-too-evil corporate type 20:09 jonadab I only know Sheer Khan from Jungle Book. 20:09 erle you should watch tale spin a bit then ig 20:09 erle pretty nice jungle book character remix 20:09 jonadab I saw a couple of episodes of it, back when it was current? 20:10 erle i think the only other series that amazed me with design as much as tale spin did was farscape 20:10 jonadab But I never cared about it. 20:10 erle because everything was alien 20:10 jonadab (I was much too old for it by the time it came out.) 20:10 erle and the peacekeepers (the authoritarian antagonists) spaceships and space stations have interior design inspired by el lissitsky 20:10 erle i doubt you can be too old for some series 20:10 jonadab The cartoons I liked most as a kid, mostly involved Bugs Bunny. 20:10 erle all these little historical references are built in for the adults 20:11 erle who maybe also watch it at times 20:11 jonadab When I think of a cartoon that stands up for adults, I think of Animaniacs. 20:12 jonadab Although I expect the old Bugs Bunny ones would too, if we all hadn't already seen them all a hundred billion times as kids. 20:12 jonadab (Except for the ones they stopped showing because they were wartime caricatures of enemy-nation ethnicities...) 20:13 jonadab (THOSE ones we didn't see much as kids.) 20:13 jonadab (Because I am not THAT old.) 20:14 erle what about neon gender evangelion 20:14 erle “get in the fucking skirt shinji” 20:14 erle :D 20:14 jonadab The word "shinji" sounds Japanese; other than that I have no idea what you're on about now. 20:18 erle jonadab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion 20:18 erle > The protagonist is Shinji Ikari, a teenage boy who gets recruited by his father Gendo to the mysterious organization Nerv to pilot a giant biomechanical mecha called an Evangelion and fight against beings known as Angels. 20:18 erle featuring biblically accurate angels 20:19 jonadab Yeah, I think I had largely stopped paying any attention at all to television by the time that came out. 20:19 jonadab 1995, I was in college and had more pressing things to do with my time. 20:20 erle you probably older than me ig 20:20 erle jonadab here is a swedish summary of that series https://onion.tube/watch?v=-H48GPv4BZI 20:20 erle if you like sweded movies 20:20 celeron55 i think i watched NGE some years ago but i don't remember almost any of it. i must have fallen asleep on every episode or something 20:20 erle “sweded” is like spurdo for movies lol 20:20 erle celeron55 watch like 30 seconds of that video if you want a refresher (and then watch the rest if you like the weird style) 20:21 erle i like how shitty it is made 20:21 erle like all their props 20:21 erle looks just like what they had at hand or so 20:22 jonadab I pretty much entirely lost interest in television once I had internet access; which we had on campus when I was in college, starting in 1993. 20:23 erle well evangelion is something else 20:23 erle don't watch it alone 20:23 jonadab So shows that came out after that, I only know about if other people are constantly talking about them (e.g. Spongebob). 20:23 erle it's fucking depressing 20:24 celeron55 i think it was way too japanese, way too mech and way too 25 years old to actually register with anything pre-existing in my brain so my brain just dropped it as it streamed in 20:24 erle hahaha, on clamity there was a CSM used nicknamed spongebot 20:24 erle it was because some griefers watercubed spawn 20:24 erle but it was not a real watercube, only a layer of water sources above spawn 20:24 erle to drown new players 20:25 erle so people like cora and lizzy used their cheat clients to dupe sponges and randomly scatter them in the sky 20:25 erle so when i first joined clamity there was this really weird experience of a totally destroyed spawn 20:25 jonadab This is what the areas mod is for. Even if you don't want normal users creating protected areas for some reason, spawn should be admin protected. 20:25 erle except for rail lines 20:25 erle which cora used to rebuild using railbot CSM 20:26 erle like if a server has a rail network hat goes from the origin to the map borders in a straight line you can be pretty sure it was made using coras railbot 20:26 erle there will also be a circle line at about +/- 1337 on x and z 20:26 erle so i joined there 20:26 erle and saw the sponge sky 20:27 erle and was pretty confused 20:27 erle like it was the WEIRDEST experience 20:27 erle later i had fun creating weird experiences for other players on servers hehe 20:27 erle like when i made a giant hole in the nether roof on kay27's mineclone5 server at nether spawn. 20:27 erle and then patched it up 20:27 erle with TNT and a thin layer of netherrock 20:28 erle i also placed a button there 20:28 erle to ignite the TNT 20:28 jonadab At one point on li-fo I discovered that when chainsaws removed logs it didn't trigger adjacent sand or gravel to fall, so I made a pavillion with a sand roof. 20:28 erle it was very funny being in the area when some random player pressed that random button 20:28 erle and then everything exploded and there was a big hole in the roof 20:28 erle (the roof was made out of bedrock, so that must have been confusing) 20:29 erle (bedrock is indestructible, usually, but people keep finding ways to remove it, usually by spawning structures into it) 20:29 jonadab That happens on MC also. 20:29 jonadab Except there it usually involves pistons. 20:29 erle i did something like the falling sand thing too! i discovered that in mineclone2 burning up wood did not trigger the falling check 20:30 jonadab (pistons and explosions, in strange combinations.) 20:30 erle so i made floating sand obstacle course 20:30 erle i also gifted some illegal items (i.e. ones you should not ever be able to get as a normal player, but i had them) to my then-boyfriend in the game :3 20:30 erle i should play more anarchy minetest 20:30 erle it is so fun to do things 20:30 erle that should not be possible 20:41 MTDiscord I'd like to make an anarchy game. Except it would actually be anarchy, with horizontal decision making tools and such.