Time Nick Message 00:20 Soni muurkha: "misapplied"? sounds deliberate... 00:27 muurkha always possible, I suppose 01:01 Swift110-mobile Sup folks 01:51 hare_hare_yukai damage_texture_modifier -- Texture modifier to be applied for a short duration when object is hit 01:51 hare_hare_yukai does anyone think it should be -- when object is damaged 01:51 hare_hare_yukai instead? 03:05 [MTMatrix] hare_hare_yukai: I'm fairly sure you can be hit for 0 damage, or your health modified without direct hitting. So no, the wording is accurate 03:05 hare_hare_yukai i couldnt disable the damage_texture_modifier from showing even if there is 0 damage 03:05 hare_hare_yukai thats the problem 04:47 hare_hare_yukai i think you misunderstood, i meant that the code should be changed so that damage_texture_modifier should be applied when object is damaged, not the wording 06:18 erle ancientmariner i just read https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/3940 and i am pretty sure that using donations meant for hosting to “pay a professional pixel artist like Zughy” is legally questionable. even if you are okay with squandering the goodwill of donors, you should really contact a lawyer if you agree with AFCMS here. 06:21 erle zughy i suggest that if you are contacted by someone who has control about mcl2 financed and promises you payment, read https://git.minetest.land/mesehub/meta/issues/4#issuecomment-71673 first. 06:21 erle financed → finances 06:22 erle according to this, cora has donated 450$ *explicitly* to run mesehub and i am pretty sure some of the others have spent money explicitly for that purpose as well (since that was given as the reasoning for setting up the OpenCollective page) https://opencollective.com/mineclone2#section-top-financial-contributors 06:30 erle ancientmariner i am of course not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but if you have control over the OpenCollective money you should make *really* sure that no one can successfully accuse you or anyone else of misappropriating funds. 06:30 erle i also suggest to tell AFCMS to pound sand lol 06:33 erle to be clear, if i was promised payment from those funds meaant for hosting, i would not take it, even if it was legal. it is squandering the goodwill of donors and as such not sustainable. 06:33 erle also, depending on your personal attitude, it might be a question of honor 07:37 hare_hare_yukai if i was the sole decision maker mcl would be MineCope 07:38 hare_hare_yukai welp, time to fork 08:30 luk3yx Does that mean Mesehub could be shutting down? 08:49 ROllerozxa it has been intending to for a while now 09:00 erle ROllerozxa well that is what the donations were for 09:14 hare_hare_yukai local num_bookshelfes = meta:get_int("mcl_enchanting:num_bookshelves") 09:14 hare_hare_yukai hahahaha 09:14 hare_hare_yukai idk man 09:17 erle lol, seems michiael is a great test case to see if mcl2 code of conduct has any teeth (called me a whore for pointing out that one should be careful with past donations) https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/3940#issuecomment-71686 09:17 erle i have seen that person insult others before ._. 09:18 erle i think anyone who believes the problem with being nice to each other on the internet is anonymity should be forced to moderate a web forum :D 09:18 erle with like, real accounts 09:19 erle hare_hare_yukai if i was the sole decision maker i would keep the existing branding of a project, unless it has a clearly negative cost to do so 09:21 erle i mean if “Windows” and “The GIMP” and “Minetest” can survive with stupid names for so long, i am sure “MineClone 2” will do fine 09:22 hare_hare_yukai whats wrong with "Windows"? 09:22 erle that's like, the things that you have on your houses? 09:23 erle a made-up name like Google surely leads to less confusion 09:24 erle also it gets shortened to ”win” which is cringe 09:24 hare_hare_yukai im pretty sure they chose that name because back then the first windowing systems were being made 09:26 erle well, if you want names that make sense, then you should support renaming the GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) to Libre Image & Graphics Manipulation Application (LIGMA) 09:26 MTDiscord erle: reading AFCMS' post, it seems he wants to repurpose future, not past donations, which would presumably be fine if donors are notified? 09:27 erle luatic i am sure that he has the best intentions, i just want to point out what can possibly go wrong 09:28 erle luatic i am not sure if notifying donors is sufficient though. it is probably a better idea to set up a new OC so no one can claim misappropriation of funds. 09:29 hare_hare_yukai why do things associated with stallman have stupid names sometimes 09:29 erle i have collected funds for hosting once and i made very sure that i did not spend that money on anything else, even though i had money problems (otherwise i would have been able to pay the hosting costs) 09:29 hare_hare_yukai like LiGNUx 09:29 erle hare_hare_yukai fun fact: almost every software project has stupid names. or almost every project. 09:29 erle i mean sometimes the names are 110% based, like the javelin 09:30 MTDiscord erle: setting up a new OC sounds like the best solution, yes 09:31 erle luatic also i am pretty sure given the combative nature of *some* characters involved in mcl2 there needs to be a lot of care taken so that they don't clash too much on useless buerocratic bullshit 09:31 MTDiscord (opencollective has a bit of an unfortunate acronym...) 09:31 erle you already have the situation that e.g. cora is fixing crashes in the new mineclonia and in mineclone2 instead of fixing them you have days or weeks of discussions if it even makes sense to fix it lol 09:32 erle now imagine this level of time-wasting over something involving real money and whom it should go to 09:33 MTDiscord erle: Mineclone2 Incorporated 09:33 erle i mean, if i tell cora ”this scenario is possible in the game and a problem” and it is easy to fix she'll fix it. some other unnamed people will react to the same statement with “prove that this is actually exploited” or “that's not that bad” or so 09:33 erle and waste more time on discussion than a fix 09:34 erle not to say coras fixes are always the best way. she mostly does the first thing that kinda works. but she has not painted herself into a corner that way so far. 09:34 erle and she is willing to throw away her own code if someone comes along with something much better 09:35 erle that solves *exactly* the same problem 09:37 erle luatic do you have some library i can depend on for the xmaps race problem? 09:38 erle otherwise i'll probably have to figure out how to tune trickled to test this 09:39 erle hare_hare_yukai regarding stupid names, i think the best solution so far is the UK rainbow codes. a color + another word. 09:39 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Code 09:40 erle > Green Grass – nuclear warhead for Violet Club and Yellow Sun Mark 1 bombs 09:40 hare_hare_yukai literally just VoxelCraft xd 09:40 erle rainbows for everyone! 09:41 erle > Red Snow – nuclear weapon physics package – fitted to Yellow Sun Mk2 and Blue Steel 09:41 erle blue steel 09:41 erle lol 09:41 erle unfortunately, wikipedia does not list a project with the code name ”yellow snow” hehehe 09:41 hare_hare_yukai do Voxel(Craft) and it will make sense cause its using (Mine)test 09:42 hare_hare_yukai haha 09:42 erle hare_hare_yukai why rename a project anyway 09:42 erle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Steel_Pose 09:43 hare_hare_yukai i dont know man ask them about their intentions 09:43 erle i think new people coming and wanting to rename a project is most of the time some ego thing 09:43 erle like, they want to leave their mark 09:44 erle like dogs pissing at a tree :P 09:44 erle if the *existing team* renames a project it is something different 09:45 erle but most proposals/issues i have seen opened about renaming come from people who were relatively new to a project. sometimes it works, if you just are persistent enough, like with x.com! 09:50 hare_hare_yukai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lesbian_Bear_Storm 09:52 erle hare_hare_yukai what in the seven hells 09:52 erle why do you even link to the talk page 09:53 hare_hare_yukai cause i couldnt create an article page cause im retarded 09:53 hare_hare_yukai im gonna go do that now 09:54 erle the article page exists thoug erle: "do you have some library i can depend on for the xmaps race problem?" - i don't 10:16 erle to get your game out of the door faster 10:16 erle luatic is it a pervasive problem? 10:16 MTDiscord erle: what exactly? 10:16 erle luatic the race 10:17 erle i'm pretty sure if i made the mistake 3 times, others exist that are equally stupid 10:17 erle but i am not sure if dynamic media is even used that much 10:17 MTDiscord as in do other mods have the same issues? i don't know, i don't touch other mods that much :P 10:18 MTDiscord i think i had done this properly the first time in epidermis (though i had a worse bug in the first iteration: https://github.com/appgurueu/epidermis/commit/4a3a347c42ac5304c1c6f4b03f304db8457b7105) 10:18 erle ) is part of urls 10:18 erle just so you know 10:18 MTDiscord and i think epidermis is the only mod of mine that used dyn. media, so i didn't really have a motivation to move this to a library 10:18 erle i see 10:18 hare_hare_yukai im all set for textures really, the game was originally made in minecraft so ill be using mcl2 textures, and for everything else ill be using ctf 10:19 MTDiscord erle: ah well, does your reader not do parenthesis matching to see whether they are part of URLs? 10:19 erle ah, cora included Unifont CSUR, so you can *actually* write klingon on her signs lol 10:19 MTDiscord (any sane Markdown implementation does that and I've come to expect it) 10:19 MTDiscord I haven't yet seen a URL which has an unmatched ) 10:19 erle luatic in your case that requires lookbehind beyond the beginning of the word, which is not regular 10:19 hare_hare_yukai the only thing i might need is the nexus texture but i can just do full red and blue fill, thats easy enough 10:20 MTDiscord erle: indeed it is not regular, but due to how often (blah blah ) occurs it's worthwhile; Markdown parsing isn't regular anyways 10:20 MTDiscord I don't even know if Markdown parsing is context-free; I suspect it isn't necessarily 10:20 hare_hare_yukai erle can u send a link to that unicode text mod? 10:20 erle hare_hare_yukai i *strongly* suggest to a) research the origin of the textures (pixel perfection poisoned mcl2 in the past) b) to copy them over if you want mcl2 to not sabotage your gameplay later on when they rename textures the next time 10:21 erle hare_hare_yukai this is unicode_text on mesehub: https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/unicode_text this is it on contentdb: https://content.minetest.net/packages/erlehmann/unicode_text/ 10:21 erle hare_hare_yukai this is cora's uc_signs mod which handles signs for you https://codeberg.org/cora/uc_signs 10:22 hare_hare_yukai i will be strongly urged to not give a fuck if anyone tries to mess with my future server 10:22 hare_hare_yukai thanks 10:22 erle unicode_text will *only* give you a texture though. text goes in, picture comes out. nothing else. 10:23 erle so i suggest to look into the signs mod for a “how to use” or just ask me 10:23 erle also if you have ideas on how to improve the kerning, please tell 10:24 erle you can see here that the cyrillic is a bit badly kerned: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/60905/267068280-ecadd7c0-ba96-49c4-8a6e-044480117f20.png 10:25 erle also note that you can't do zalgo text with this. i render each combining character directly over the preceding character, so you can not reasonably stack combining characters here. 10:25 erle you can apply combining characters that modify different parts of a glyph though 10:25 erle so underline and accent is okay 10:26 erle and no, i will not fix this *solely* to support zalgo text lol 10:26 erle show me a real world use case for combining character stacking and i might do so though 10:27 erle also note that arabic letter shaping is not implemented and the bidi support is incomplete. 10:27 hare_hare_yukai i didnt and wasnt going to ask for that, you somehow thought i would xd 10:27 erle well, those are the most obvious failures 10:27 erle and they are things i *could* have done if i had the motivation for it 10:28 erle but i have no use for arabic or hebrew in minetest tbh 10:34 hare_hare_yukai what was i saying, "not give a fuck if anyone tries to mess with my future server" 10:34 hare_hare_yukai silly me, of course that wont be the case 10:35 erle hare_hare_yukai the issue is that for years mcl2 textures were stable and then they were renamed, which broke all texture packs. this means that from now on, you *have* to assume that they will change those in the future without warning. 10:35 hare_hare_yukai i meant that for some specific cases anyways 10:35 erle copy them to your own mod 10:35 erle then you do not have that problem 10:36 hare_hare_yukai yeah, i cloned minetest and patched it 10:36 erle minetest is not the issue here 10:36 hare_hare_yukai mineclone* 10:36 erle ah 10:36 hare_hare_yukai not minetest 10:36 hare_hare_yukai nice, maybe this is why we need a rename 10:37 erle hare_hare_yukai btw are you going to use the text rendering just for normal signs or displaying some ingame scoreboard or so? 10:37 erle i don't think anyone *needs* a rename. it's useless busywork. 10:38 hare_hare_yukai for current game stats it will just be on player huds 10:38 erle ah 10:38 hare_hare_yukai i dont *need* signs, they arent integral to the game 15:58 erle cora made signs for sitelen pona input (you can input the latin stuff, it renders sitelen pona) https://codeberg.org/cora/sitelen_pona_signs 16:22 lissobone Hi. Rangedweapons is an amazing mod that all my friends use on a daily basis, but it's a little buggy. So I am debugging its spaghetti code. And I have a question regarding hud_change: is it supposed to accept "text" as the hud type when it has to render images? 16:23 lissobone It looks like david (the creator) encountered this too and changed it from "image" to "text" since the latter was the only one that worked. 16:24 lissobone I changed it to "image" where it is supposed to render PNG icons of ammo and guns and they just... don't appear. What's wrong? Am I dumb again? 16:28 lissobone Looks like "image" needs some extra "text" parameter with the name of the image to be displayed. I'll try this. 16:48 MTDiscord It's all in the docs. 17:18 lissobone I am in the docs, though. 17:19 lissobone And I don't see much that could aid me in my holy mission. 17:19 lissobone discord moment 17:20 lissobone Have you had any experience with images and hud_change? Share your experiences. I might be doing wrong. 17:25 erle lissobone i have experiences with it 17:25 lissobone Could you go into more detail please. 17:26 lissobone hold on i have got my manhunt mod i had some HUDs in there 17:26 lissobone i'll share my experiences too to collectively devise the better solution 17:26 erle i made xmaps 17:26 MTDiscord I'm not sure what you're missing in the docs. hud_elem_type has to be "image" for images. "text" has to be the texture string. Calling hud_change has to use "text" to change the texture. 17:27 erle lissobone see https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/xmaps/src/branch/master/init.lua 17:27 MTDiscord All of this is documented. 17:27 lissobone i doubt 17:28 lissobone h-hmm (studying the source) 17:28 lissobone hmmm 17:29 erle i think the hud code from xmaps is pretty cute with the arrow 17:30 lissobone Which arrow??? 17:30 erle xmaps shows an arrow for the player 17:30 lissobone Maybe I subconsciously see it, that's why I think it's cute, too. 17:30 erle i rotate it depending on where the player is looking 17:30 lissobone hold on i thought of an actual like arrow in the code 17:30 lissobone pointing at something 17:31 lissobone perhaps at the arrow code 17:31 erle there is an arrow in the code too 17:31 erle because xmaps generates the arrow textures from code lol 17:31 lissobone i've never experimented with texture generation yet 17:31 lissobone but it looks hackiful 17:32 lissobone i saw a mandelbrot texture in devtest 17:32 erle well i thought it is a better idea to do it this way than to have constantly changing binary files 17:33 lissobone it was fully generated in lua 17:33 lissobone it amazed me 17:34 lissobone (well, now in know that it needs "text" as its type cuz it's just the field, but the docs aren't really clear on that) 17:34 erle lissobone i suggest to look into demoscene stuff if you like that 17:34 lissobone WHAT is demoscene? 17:35 erle people who make computational art with very little code 17:35 erle for varying definitions of ”very little” 17:35 lissobone i saw a donut in the shape of a donut 17:35 lissobone i think u remember that 17:39 lissobone why are Z-coords in the blitted icon stored at the top level? 17:39 lissobone and each one stores X-coords 17:39 lissobone There has to be a reason, but I would've just automatically done it in reverse. 17:39 erle wdym 17:40 erle in my code? 17:40 erle the natural way i learned in school to make a coordinate system is that one axis goes right and one axis goes up. so the first pixel stored is the bottom left one. 17:40 erle in minetest, z axis goes up 17:41 erle yes, you can do it the other way around if you really want to 17:41 erle but if you look at e.g. ancient tree schematics in minetest stuff i think you will see the same 17:41 erle the tree is “upside down” in the source code 17:42 erle it's all arbitrary 17:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rollerozxa -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve UX when no game exists and drop `default_game` (#13550) 13a88e61c https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a88e61c2cf318d4901b507c2ffde5b436594d03c (152023-09-17T17:45:28Z) 17:48 lissobone Wait, really? 17:48 lissobone I know that in real mathematics Z is conventionally "up", but I've always thought that in Minetest it's otherwise, Y corresponding to up. 17:49 lissobone mark, marx, mary 17:49 lissobone i love those variables 17:51 erle lissobone in minetest x and y are a plane and z is up i think 17:51 erle or not? 17:52 lissobone i remembr that in vectors 'y' corresponds to the vertical position of $something 17:52 lissobone WHAT is SELF in lua?? 17:52 erle lol 17:52 lissobone tga_encoder.image:blit_icon -- is this a method that operates on images? 17:52 lissobone ok i gottitttt 17:53 erle zmv7, i was told uc_signs will be submitted to contentdb soon! 17:53 erle zmv7 thank you for your feedback 17:53 lissobone 'self' allows a method to access the object it's acting on, is it true? (i'm not an object oriented guy, i'm more of a lambda calculus knight) 17:54 lissobone i've never used it in any of my lua programs, but now i think i will 17:54 erle more or less, i bet luatic can explain it well 17:54 MTDiscord erle: y is up in minetest 17:55 erle https://www.lua.org/pil/16.html 17:55 erle luatic, thanks, i apparently suck 17:55 MTDiscord self is pretty much just syntactic sugar for hiding a method parameter in lua, most often used to emulate something like oop 17:55 erle apparently haven't cheated using teleportation in too long 17:55 erle i would have ended up in solid rock probably 17:55 erle or void 17:56 erle or the end sky lololol 17:56 MTDiscord function tab:func(blah) is equivalent to function tab.func(self, blah); the call t:func(blurg) is equivalent to t.func(t, blurg) 17:56 erle semantic sugaring 17:56 erle > The effect of the colon is to add an extra hidden parameter in a method definition and to add an extra argument in a method call. 17:57 MTDiscord do not misunderstand this: it is not semantic 17:57 MTDiscord it is purely syntactic 17:57 lissobone I see. The very first function in xmaps (i'm studying it very slowly and carefully (천천히)) first checks for stop_colors and only THEN reiterates over the table, assigning required colors. 17:57 lissobone Can't this be done in a single iteration? 17:57 erle luatic you are correct, it is just a sweeter syntax, no implications are implied 17:58 lissobone what are the syntax bitteners 17:58 erle now i wonder again why i appreciate if someone calls me out on bullshit but others flip their shit. i feel i may lack some facility. 18:00 erle lissobone i am pretty sure that xmaps can be made better. but i would not be sure that your proposal has the same behaviour in all cases unless i had an extensive set of tests, which i do not have. 18:00 lissobone Why can't it return immediately upon detecting a stop color? 18:01 lissobone I will hack it to its damn fullest. 18:01 erle maybe it should 18:01 erle i wonder if i had some ulterior motive for this 18:02 erle i mean that probably shold be refactored into two functions 18:02 erle one that checks if the color is there 18:02 erle and one that stupidly blits 18:02 lissobone yooo that's a fire idea 18:02 lissobone gerald sussman will be proud 18:04 lissobone What does the detector function need? 18:04 lissobone It definitely does not need the actual icon, for that only its length is demanded. 18:06 lissobone not definitely 18:08 erle lissobone, submit a PR please then 18:08 lissobone i'll try 18:08 erle i can not promise i'll do it super-fast, but it sounds good what you want 18:08 erle the ultimate plan for xmaps was always to have pluggable renderer 18:08 erle but i got depression 18:09 erle now i am fine again and i think “i am stupid, why did i not make the minimal renderer using the minimap color?” 18:10 erle which you can, by the way, easily do 18:10 erle my rendering of “hand-drawn maps” is bizarre 18:10 erle but funny 18:10 erle like if you are in the woods, it will draw the correct trees 18:10 erle it draws houses where there are doos 18:10 erle but that's i think an acceptable way of house detection hehe 18:10 lissobone What about beds? 18:11 erle tell me what you want. i experimented with adding rail lines too, but it looked shitty 18:11 erle so i settled for landscape plus trees, grass, houses stuff 18:11 erle or better: add it yourself and make a PR lol 18:11 erle i shall act on that PR from luatic sometime soon 18:11 lissobone I don't want anything in particular. I'm just studying the source code and making it better. 18:11 erle when i have someone over to test it well :) 18:12 lissobone Why do pixels of a tga_encoder.image consist of a list with a single element? 18:12 lissobone oops i mean a table 18:13 lissobone i should cut down on lisp consumption 18:13 lissobone self.pixels[z + i_z][x + i_x] = { color } 18:13 lissobone While on a different line there's stop_colors[self.poxels[z + i_z][x + i_x][1] (I don't see a reason (YET!!!) to store it like that). 18:14 lissobone I've separated it. 18:15 erle lissobone i have documented the pixel format here: https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/unicode_text#user-content-pixels-tables 18:18 lissobone hmm cool now i see the reason 18:18 erle what is it, in your words? 18:19 lissobone cuz the pixels often need, like, some more space to be encoded (if there are 3 colors, for example) and that's why they're in a table 18:19 lissobone the nests of tables just confuse me 18:20 erle i see 18:20 lissobone i have not seen such sorcery in centuries 18:20 erle well, i don't see how else you can do it unless you are like “image formats are hard, let's just dump bytes here” which is a bit harder to access tbh 18:21 erle like i think some APIs just say “okay, if you want to write an X wide and Y high image with RGBA colors, just give me X × Y × 4 bytes” 18:21 erle which is *probably* the lowest-effort thing that is still useful 18:21 erle but IMO it's not nice to anyone doing anything with that API 18:30 lissobone sorry, i had forty winks 18:30 lissobone my ass hurts because of my lengthy bicycle journeys 18:32 erle that's a good excuse i will remember to say 18:32 erle whenever my ass hurts 19:44 MinetestBot 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Skip face culling in shadows for double-sided materials (e.g. plantli… 13e36b222 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e36b2226b9c6c69ac0c9033c8c0d8e9897e57b4b (152023-09-17T19:42:14Z)