Time Nick Message 09:22 Guest54 ROllerozxa given that https://content.minetest.net/packages/ryvnf/mineclonia/ was approved and is most certainly not a fork of https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/ but of mcl2, how do you propose i change the description of my mods that “were tested with mineclonia” (not the rvynf one) and the original project? see here for an 09:22 Guest54 example: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=416364&sid=a7caf3df08b60f6b21a8aca164f47ecd#p416364 09:23 Guest54 (also that server owner may be surprised a bit) 09:29 Guest54 (i have no issues with ppl who were disappointed by me disappearing doing a new/similar project, but using the same name without is a bit weird) 09:30 Guest54 s/without// 09:30 MTDiscord wasn't Mineclonia started by ryvnf in the first place 09:30 Guest54 no lol 09:30 Guest54 rynvf left because “too much buerocracy” 09:31 Guest54 i think? 09:35 MTDiscord im pretty sure he created it and made all the initial commits 09:35 MTDiscord after the fork from MCL2 09:35 Guest54 let me look it up 09:35 MTDiscord that's how i remember it and the git log says so as well 09:36 MTDiscord which git log 09:36 Guest54 https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/2 09:36 Guest54 but https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/1 was the actual first commit with the name mineclonia 09:36 Guest54 (by n_to) 09:37 Guest54 i mean the first issue 09:38 Guest54 i think originally wuzzy came up with that name but no one had made a game with it or so? 09:39 MTDiscord yes, the name is from Wuzzy 09:43 Guest54 anyway, let me see if it is compatible lol 09:54 Guest54 okay, turns out lol 09:54 Guest54 i think the gameid is case-sensitive 09:55 Guest54 so old Mineclonia uses “Mineclonia” as gameid and new one uses ”mineclonia” 09:56 Guest54 this will surely lead to no confusion whatsoever, haha. but it does prevent old worlds from switching over automatically, which means this is not a “well you can't change it back now” scenario. 09:56 rubenwardy ContentDB only allows lower case, Mineclonia wouldn't be allowed on cdb 09:56 rubenwardy also, don't confuse name with game id 09:56 Guest54 i am talking about the case “what if now someone has a world and sees oh this thing is on cdb” 09:56 Guest54 it will not switch over, which is good, because then they need to figure out why, hopefully find the issue and then choose 09:57 rubenwardy (name in game.conf is the title, not the game id) 09:57 Guest54 am i wrong on this? 10:02 MTDiscord (re: the message I was highlighted in) both the old and new mineclonia are compatible with mineclone 2 API wise though? 10:05 Guest54 ROllerozxa in both cases it is “forked from a specific revision of mineclone2 that was deemed ‘good enough’ but may be lacking some newer stuff as time goes on”. the issue with mcl2 vs forks is mostly that mcl2 has a history of not being particularly compatible to *old versions of itself*, i.e. you can guarantee compat to a specific 10:05 Guest54 version, but not general API compat since things are renamed. see, for example, the thing with all lapis items turning into blue dye because mcl2 wanted to re-use the item name. 10:07 Guest54 there is also the issue of putting new stuff in existing mods. 10:07 Guest54 like, when mcl_core contains crying obsidian and you want to make a mod that wants crying obsidian, what do you do? 10:07 rubenwardy adding new stuff to mods? Outrageous 10:08 Guest54 well, i mean in a way that it is not 100% compatible anyways 10:08 Guest54 i am pretty sure the majority of ppl who create mods know how to, for example, use aliases 10:09 rubenwardy I care so much about compatibility, I never add new stuff to my mods 10:09 Guest54 hehehehehe 10:09 Guest54 well, in a modpack with dozens of mods adding decorative nodes is best done under a new name imo 10:10 Guest54 because then others can depend on them 10:11 Guest54 anyway, an example: mcl_villages:tool from Mineclonia or MineClone2 0.71.0 does become an unknown item in mineclonia or MineClone2 whatever-is-the-current-version 10:12 Guest54 i mean, it's not a particular important item and not obtainable without creative mode 10:12 Guest54 (or so they claim lol) 10:12 MTDiscord ah mineclone 10:13 Guest54 so yeah, you can't really make compatibility promises. that also affects third-party mods. for example, rudzik8s additional mineclone furniture mod will stop having textures on some chairs and desks i think because the textures got pointlessly renamed. 10:14 Guest54 in the next mineclone2 release 10:14 Guest54 now since that mod is a year old and certainly the plans were on display in a dusty filling cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door “beware of the leopard” i guess it is totally justified ;) 10:17 MTDiscord wait they renamed the textures now? 10:17 Guest54 ROllerozxa you are in for a world of fun 10:17 Guest54 soooooooo 10:18 Guest54 ROllerozxa for reasons™, the idea was to put all the textures of all mods into one big texture directory. that means suddenly you need to prefix them with each mod name to know which mod they belong to … instead of, say, putting them into the mod texture directory in the first place. 10:19 Guest54 ROllerozxa it obviously breaks texture packs and mods that assume that texture names that were stable for years do not change 10:20 MTDiscord yeah I heard they mashed all the textures in one folder. have they begun renaming them already, or is it still a mess of MTG-compatible texture names for core textures? 10:21 Guest54 https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/pulls/3456 10:21 Guest54 ROllerozxa IMO it's a bunch of “do the first thing that seems a good idea” and then you need to followup with other stuff and get a cascade of issues. 10:23 Guest54 my favourite “for want of a nail” story here is: 1. borked mcl_dye refactoring → 2. all lapis turns into dye, all bonemeal turns into dye etc. → 3. add compatibility recipes to make people turn back dye into lapis → 4. disable getting dye from flowers so people do not get lapis from flowers 10:25 MTDiscord well I see where they're coming from with the textures, they want to leave their MTG mod soup roots and make things neater but... it's also gonna break literally all texture packs, including ones that have basic mineclone compat by virtue of sharing texture names 10:26 Guest54 it has nothing to do with leaving mtg mod soup roots 10:26 rubenwardy fairly easy to make a script to migrate texture packs 10:26 Guest54 rubenwardy oh the thing is that currently the texture packs work for mtg and mcl2 10:26 Guest54 well, anyways, they currently *work* lol 10:29 MTDiscord some default override.txt that maps mineclone2 textures to MTG counterparts would be nice, though, if they're going through with it 10:29 Guest54 ROllerozxa then there are also gameplay things. for example, mineclonia (new) is forked from a version of mcl2 that has mobs you can noclip through, whereas mineclonia (old) is forked from a version of mcl2 that has mobs that are solid and it was deliberately not changed, because you can not hop on a mod. 10:29 Guest54 solid mobs can also escape from your enclosure when they hop on each other ;) 10:31 Guest54 mob 10:31 Guest54 you can not hop on a mob when it is not solid 10:35 MTDiscord ah mineclone mobs 10:35 MTDiscord also re: mod soup roots, cramming all textures into one folder and properly namespacing them seems very "we're turning into a monolithic game" to me 10:36 Guest54 well, it's basically the default response of those who give up on fixing dependencies 10:40 Guest54 the people who push ”all textures in one directory” were basically the same ones who every time when i said ”separate this new feature into a separate mod, it is a better maintainable way” wanted to cram everything into an existing mod “to avoid dependency hell” 10:45 MTDiscord put all textures in one dir? why 10:46 MTDiscord even if you want to put it in one mod you can still use subdirectories 10:46 Guest54 Kimapr hysterical raisins 10:47 Guest54 apparently a single directory with 2300 textures is better for texture creators than having neatly separated textures for a bunch of mods lol 10:47 MTDiscord example: https://gitlab.com/Kimapr/fogblox/-/tree/master/mods/fogblox/media 10:47 MTDiscord the whole game is contained in a single mod 10:48 Guest54 nah, renaming everything is obviously the correct step, because everyone who ever made a mod for mcl2 is a fool for assuming stable texture names :P 10:49 MTDiscord why do textures need to be renamed again? i thought all minetest media share the same namespace anyway 10:57 MTDiscord kimapr: mineclone's texture names are a mess of MTG compatible names and mcl_ namespaced ones 10:57 cora I won't stick around here but i feel the story that is being presented here is fairly one sided. Both ryvnf have been, regardless of who "started it" significant contributors to old mineclonia. I'll also point out that it has been dead for like a year and that I am the one who despite knowing it's probably pointless have continued to submit issues and PRs to fix at least the most critical issues - they have still not been looked at to this day. (e.g. 10:57 cora https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/304 , https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/302 ) I'll also say that I have before and also just now tried to discuss these things privately and have offered, and still am offering my help with any issues this might cause. 11:04 Guest54 well, i can not prove i told cora i am okay with everything but reusing the name, but i guess it does not matter. 11:17 Guest54 ROllerozxa this is not necessarily about mtg compatible names, the furniture mod i was referring to does, in fact, use mcl2 names and they simply changed it 11:18 Guest54 if the only problem was making mtg-compatible stuff incompatible (e.g. texture packs for mtg that just happen to work for mcl2), i'd probably find it stupid, but not malicious 11:19 Guest54 but when mods that *explicitly* got made for mcl2 stop working correctly after less than a year i think it's a bit of a weird thing 11:19 MTDiscord I find it funny how games have added my mod on contentdb and now im getting a warning "Make sure you own the rights to mcl_wither_spawning, it's included in these other packages: ..." 11:19 MTDiscord not that it matters - if it's in the game it doesn't need to be a mod anymore 11:19 Guest54 Fleckenstein in that case you should not have a problem ig? 11:20 MTDiscord that note is mostly just for editors to check for RTAN 11:20 MTDiscord also oh god, they're renaming mcl namespaced texture names nilly willy too? 11:20 Guest54 ROllerozxa if cdb had a policy “do not knowingly break existing mods relying on texture or item names” this could be avoided, but i doubt it will have that anytime soon 11:21 Guest54 i mean, it is easy to prevent the breakage when moving to new textures or item names, with aliases, symlinks, whatever, you name it. or simply keeping the names lol. 11:22 Guest54 here is an example that is probably not problematic (but who knows lol) 11:22 Guest54 rename from textures/mcl_achievements_axolotl_bucket.png 11:22 Guest54 rename to textures/mcl_buckets_axolotl_bucket.png 11:22 Guest54 there's a bucket in the graphic, obviously it needs to be part of a different mod 11:23 Guest54 i think this one was the one that breaks the rudzik8 furniture: 11:23 Guest54 rename from textures/mcl_crimson_hyphae.png 11:23 Guest54 rename to textures/mcl_crimson_crimson_hyphae.png 11:23 Guest54 TWICE THE CRIMSON 11:23 Guest54 twice the fun 11:23 MTDiscord CRIMSON CRIMSON HYPHAE 11:24 Guest54 you see this is obviously necessary and not deck chairs shuffling on the titanic 11:24 Guest54 it also means that if you steal textures from mcl2 nodes you better make sure you steal them from the node definiton 11:25 Guest54 definition 11:25 Guest54 or else they may change again whenever, wherever 11:25 Guest54 well, that only works *if* it is a texture for a node definition, but you get it 11:26 Guest54 ROllerozxa the fun thing is that it was of course crimson_hyphae.png in the beginning, then got renamed to mcl_crimson_hyphae.png, then got renamed to mcl_crimson_crimson_hyphae.png 11:27 Guest54 also i think rudzik8 uses crimson wood 11:28 MTDiscord our current RTAN modname policy on CDB is basically just based on technical limitations with minetest's mod system where mods with the same name but with different authors (or even mods built into games) are still treated as the same (there is no built-in namespacing) 11:30 MTDiscord however this doesn't extend to item definitions nor textures, it's basically the minimum necessary to not cause issues with incompatible mods that have the same name, or that game detection gets messed up by a game with an incompatible default mod 11:32 Guest54 well the thing with item definitions is, it is really easy to get it right 11:32 Guest54 same for textures 11:32 Guest54 so i guess *most* people don't rename stuff arbitrarily 11:33 Guest54 or reuse names for stuff that is not 100% compatible (*cough*) 11:36 Guest54 anyways, i guess i need to make new friends that understand that true names have power 11:38 Guest54 ROllerozxa IMO the fact that mods with the same name but with different authors are still treated the same is useful because it means you can override stuff, both in development and using it later. for example, mcl2 does not include the improvements i made to tga_encoder – but since it is an 100% API-compatible mod, you could basically get 11:38 Guest54 smaller images with a different default for encoding. 11:40 MTDiscord yeah 11:40 MTDiscord same thing with stuff like farming redo which fully replaces an existing MTG mod with a new API compatible one 11:44 MTDiscord it just becomes a bit of an issue when someone wants to make a new mod named "concrete" and they are now required to make it fully compatible with the existing "concrete" mod such that other mods depending on a mod named "concrete" doesn't break 11:44 Guest54 ROllerozxa btw,  is “ppl who left a project can start a new project with the same name if the old project has not been updated in a while” official policy or is it simply because rynvf has the oldest commit with the name mineclonia in any case or because it was first on cdb (i.e. you can not claim a name on cdb if you used it outside of cdb 11:45 Guest54 anyways)? 11:46 Guest54 i don't think not being allowed to use the name “concrete” is a problem 11:46 Guest54 after all, xmaps is not named “maps” because there was an existing “maps” mod in some random ass game 11:46 Guest54 and mine was not API compatible 11:48 Guest54 in any case, i should probably get some stuff on cdb before some fun-hater comes along and insists i should rename my mods 11:49 Guest54 after all, i haven't worked on much minetest-related in close to a year or so 11:49 Guest54 or at least, i have not published it 11:51 Guest54 (on cdb lol) 11:58 MTDiscord my rationale for approving the new mineclonia was that original mineclonia seemed to have been abandoned, and that ryvnf and cora were active developers on the original project which I assumed gave them right to the name 11:59 MTDiscord I probably wouldn't have approved it if I saw the original mineclonia being active, or if the original mineclonia was up and available on CDB 11:59 MTDiscord whether something is on CDB maybe shouldn't matter obviously, but of course that plays a small part in knowing whether it is something is "active" and actively played by people. also in general, we can't be aware of everything that exists outside of CDB and the forums 12:00 Guest54 well, there are two servers that are not in the serverlist that maaaaaaaay use the old mineclonia and maaaaaaaay not want to upgrade to the new one 12:01 MTDiscord isn't oysterity cora's server? 12:02 Guest54 well, that one uses the new thing 12:02 Guest54 pretty obv because she was, if i understand it correctly, kinda driven out of mcl2 12:02 MTDiscord yeah 12:02 MTDiscord anyways that's the only server that I can see uses mineclonia, from doing a ctrl+f on the serverlist 12:03 Guest54 well i did tell cora that i plan to work on mineclonia again soon now that i am no longer ill and she asked me to not do it, but i can not prove it 12:03 Guest54 so ig it's a friendship issue and not a technical issue 12:04 Guest54 ROllerozxa it was always the only public server that used it, since the others were afraid of griefers 12:04 Guest54 oh wait, no, i think there was “mineclonia forever” too 12:05 Guest54 hosted by kay27 12:05 Guest54 i hope he is okay :/ 12:07 Guest54 btw, this is a great review hehe https://content.minetest.net/threads/4602/ 12:07 Guest54 pointlessly gendered 12:07 Guest54 my favourite queer warning sign: “this is a gender-free space. all genders will be shot.” 12:08 MTDiscord o.o 12:08 Guest54 it's a surreal meme 12:09 sogt hi 12:09 Guest54 ROllerozxa how much of a name difference do i have to have? given pixture/repixture 2 letters are enough? 12:09 sogt hello?? 12:09 Guest54 i mean: piranesi vs piranesi restoration project lol 12:10 Guest54 the latter is a bit long 12:10 sogt guest54 12:10 Guest54 sogt what 12:10 sogt hellow 12:10 Guest54 yeah so what do you want 12:12 Guest54 !help tell 12:12 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md 12:17 Guest54 ROllerozxa btw if you want to research the serverlist in the future, i made a tool called minetest-servers that helps with this: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/minetest-servers 12:18 Guest54 ; minetest-servers gameid |grep lordofthetest 12:18 Guest54 metis3.duckdns.org:30002    lordofthetest 12:19 Guest54 or to count which server is most active: minetest-servers clients |sort -k2 -n 12:20 Guest54 server with lowest proto_max lol 12:20 Guest54 ; minetest-servers proto_max |sort -k2 -nr |tail -n1 12:20 Guest54 23.28.74.3:30001    26 12:20 MTDiscord > Dieses Programm hat das Ziel, die Medienkompetenz der Leser zu steigern. Gelegentlich packe ich sogar einen handfesten Buffer Overflow oder eine Format String Vulnerability zwischen die anderen Codezeilen und schreibe das auch nicht dran. 12:20 MTDiscord should have used Rust smh 12:20 Guest54 well why don't you rewrite it in rust dear lizzy 12:21 Guest54 i watched ”pride and prejudice” last night with a friend 12:21 MTDiscord okey 12:21 Guest54 there was so much ”dear lizzy” hehe 12:21 MTDiscord omg i love pride and prejudice 12:21 MTDiscord part of the reason why i picked my name 12:21 MTDiscord also because of Elias and lizards 12:21 Guest54 NICE 12:22 Guest54 i think lydia is the winner in the story btw 12:22 Guest54 she runs a way with a guy and gets to marry him 12:22 Guest54 also she is grinning all the time 12:22 Guest54 then again she's 15 when she does it and the guy is a known scammer, so maybe it is not the wisest of choices 12:22 Guest54 but she got what she wanted! 12:23 Guest54 Fleckenstein, the comment about buffer overflows is making fun of this: https://blog.fefe.de/faq.html 12:23 Guest54 > Dieses Blog hat nämlich das Ziel, die Medienkompetenz der Leser zu steigern. Gelegentlich packe ich sogar einen handfesten Hoax oder eine Satire zwischen die anderen Meldungen und schreibe das auch nicht dran. 12:24 Guest54 fleckenstein also you can see that this is not at all LANGSEC since what a argument is depends on the API response lol 12:25 Guest54 i am also using exceptions for control flow 12:25 MTDiscord i dislike exceptions 12:25 Guest54 it is pretty nice though, since you can immediately see some stats 12:25 Guest54 or find your friends! 12:26 Guest54 like on which server they are rn 12:26 Guest54 minetest-servers clients_list |grep -i $USERNAME 12:26 MTDiscord yea i had the same in node.js back then :juanchi_face: 12:26 Guest54 what 12:27 Guest54 why would you torture yourself with node.js 12:27 Guest54 dear lizzy 12:27 Guest54 dearest lizzy hehehehe 12:27 MTDiscord no idea 12:27 Guest54 wasn't it like a UTF-16 mess or so 12:27 Guest54 maybe i remember it wrong 12:27 MTDiscord pip is marginally worse than npm 12:28 Guest54 Fleckenstein the worst thing about pride and prejudice is that the property is entailed and can only be given to a male heir 12:28 Guest54 the family simply does not have a mulan 12:28 MTDiscord > Fleckenstein the worst thing about pride and prejudice is that the property is entailed 12:28 MTDiscord oh, neat minetest-servers script, I suppose using that script might be better than just doing ctrl+f either on the serverlist page or the raw json like I usually do 😂 12:28 MTDiscord you can stop right there 12:29 Guest54 furries, tails, lol 12:29 MTDiscord furries...? o.o 12:29 Guest54 ROllerozxa i think it is pretty feature-complete too. anything missing? 12:29 Guest54 furries have tails 12:29 Guest54 usually 12:29 MTDiscord it matters very little to me whether everyone is exploited by upper class men or everyone is exploited by upper class men and women 12:30 Guest54 oh but sparta had the better inheritance laws 12:30 Guest54 women could inherit, but their husband might die in war, so they marry again 12:30 Guest54 [[accumulation of wealth intensifies]] 12:34 fling yo 12:40 Guest32 You told me that you wanted to restart old mcla days after i told you about the new one - can't prove it either lol, maybe if we were using more consistent ways of communicating.... hehe. I'm at work and i would prefer if you would not drag this on in public while I told you I'll be gone, Guest54. I have earlier today and back when you said it told 12:40 Guest32 you that I am quite willing to work with you on this and/or any issues that might come up. And I personally don't even care about your naming issues. 12:40 Guest32 Please don't make it more of a "friendship issue" than it already is ... 12:46 Guest54 i see 13:03 Guest54 Fleckenstein i broadly agree. in any case, mulan best disney hero. 13:03 Guest54 well, technically with disney now owning the rights to the alien franchise, the eggs of the alien queen are also disney princesses 13:04 Guest54 or what comes out of it 13:10 MTDiscord if I have an iterator of values and i want to collect them in sorted order, should I rather collect into a BTreeSet or collect into a Vec and then qsort them? 13:11 MTDiscord I know it doesn't matter but I dont want to write bad codes 13:11 Guest54 i wonder if the compiler is smarter here than you 13:11 MTDiscord whar 13:12 Guest54 well, compilers understand code. on a level that say, chatgpt, does not have. 13:12 MTDiscord i know, but it's not abstract in this case 13:12 Guest54 are you aware of godbolt? 13:12 MTDiscord heap allocations are kind of a boundary 13:12 Guest54 i'd start with putting both examples in here https://godbolt.org/ and see if it generates meaningfully different assembly 13:13 Guest54 because if it comes out the same, the question is meaningless 13:13 muurkha not always 13:13 muurkha but in the case of Fleckenstein's question it definitely won't 13:13 Guest54 well, then the question is, what is the meaningful difference 13:13 MTDiscord this is an algorithm question 13:13 MTDiscord not a programming language question 13:13 Guest54 is it a performance question? 13:14 muurkha mostly 13:14 Guest54 or “code looks like my intent” question 13:14 muurkha I mean it might also be a maintainability question 13:14 MTDiscord a performance question 13:14 MTDiscord maintainability is on par 13:14 muurkha I'd collect into a Vec and then qsort them then 13:14 Guest54 yeah, maintainability is probably a better way to frame the intent thing 13:14 Guest54 muurkha rationale? 13:15 Guest54 i mean the btree is more complex right? 13:15 muurkha well, Vec and sort are pretty common tools; BTreeSet less so. and in general you expect a B-tree to be slower 13:15 muurkha why do you expect it to be slower? well... 13:16 Guest54 > The basic assumption was that indices would be so voluminous that only small chunks of the tree could fit in main memory. 13:16 Guest54 (wikipedia about btrees) 13:17 muurkha the sort of overarching answer is that it provides stronger guarantees: the sequence remains in effect sorted the whole time instead of becoming sorted only at the end 13:18 muurkha and this has consequences like slack space inside of blocks, poor locality between blocks, and (typically) insertion sort within a block 13:18 Guest54 i see 13:19 muurkha you could imagine a language which used B-trees ubiquitiously for data storage, in which case it would be a performance-maintainability tradeoff 13:19 muurkha but not in C++ 13:19 Guest54 the worst tradeoff i encounter all the time is strings in lua lol 13:19 Guest54 they get hashed for fast access later 13:20 Guest54 so you definitely should not create a lot of small strings 13:20 muurkha creating a lot of small strings is still faster in Lua than in Python or Perl 13:21 muurkha well, CPython and Jython, anyway. I don't know about PyPy 13:21 Guest54 yeah, but not creating them is still faster than creating them 13:21 muurkha depending on what the alternative to creating them is 13:22 MTDiscord i think b-trees are for maintaining mutable sorted collections 13:22 MTDiscord i just need to sort the thing oncde 13:22 muurkha aye 13:23 Guest54 muurkhau in my case, it is a) serialize a lot of small strings and then concat them b) create fewer larger strings at once 13:23 Guest54 fleckenstein knows what i mean 13:30 MTDiscord hmmm 13:30 MTDiscord there are a lot of duplicate strings tho 13:30 MTDiscord i want unique sort 13:30 MTDiscord i think a BTreeSet would actually be better at this 13:31 MTDiscord well I hope to get better at this soon 13:33 MTDiscord currently in my first algorithms & data structures lecture (first day of second semester at uni hehe) 13:34 MTDiscord rn the lecturer is having issues with his surface laptop tho :kekw: 13:39 MTDiscord https://users.rust-lang.org/t/sorted-unique-list-from-iterator-t-ord-hash/53531 13:40 MTDiscord since I have a lot of duplicate values, I think BTeeSet is the way to go 13:40 muurkha possibly, depending on what "a lot" is 13:41 muurkha but there's also an algorithm in the STL that removes adjacent duplicates, which will remove all the duplicates from a sorted vector 13:44 MTDiscord 12689 entires, 36 unique entries 13:45 MTDiscord itertools has dedup and sorted, but for many duplicate entries this is slower than BTreeSet I think 13:49 muurkha yes, probably BTreeSet will be faster there 13:49 muurkha probably a still faster alternative is to put the items into a hash, then iterate over the 36 hash keys at the end to sort them 14:00 dmj I'm running a private server for friends, and I'm interested in integrating in-game chat with IRC. I'd like to see examples of other servers that have done this successfully. Can anyone offer pointers? 14:05 muurkha I'd like to see that too 14:07 MTDiscord github.com/minetest-mods/irc github.com/minetest-mods/irc_commands 14:13 dmj Right, I've seen these mods. But I'm hoping to see some-real world examples of servers that have implemented them successfully. 14:17 MTDiscord Guest54 14:18 MTDiscord isn't printing out data from the internet without sanitization a security issue? 15:25 calcul0n dmj, pandorabox might be a good example, it's using beerchat 15:40 MTDiscord haha I've taken way too much time rewriting your tool in rust Guest54 15:41 MTDiscord as usual, I spent way too much time overperfecting things 15:41 MTDiscord https://github.com/LizzyFleckenstein03/minetest-servers 16:16 Fleckenstein hi uh 16:17 Fleckenstein im done with the rewrite, Guest54 16:17 Guest54 of what 16:17 Fleckenstein https://github.com/LizzyFleckenstein03/minetest-servers 16:17 Guest54 there are no instructions on how to execute it 16:17 Fleckenstein cargo run --release 16:18 Fleckenstein tho if you dont want to install a compiler, i can build it for you, what is your architecture 16:18 Guest54 pico8 16:19 Fleckenstein that's lua based right 16:19 Guest54 i am of jokings 16:19 Fleckenstein so i gotta build WASM and then wasm2lua 16:20 Guest54 i suggest to put the compile instructions in the readme 16:20 Guest54 stop it dear lizzy i am cargoing it 16:22 Fleckenstein cargo space? no, car no do that. cargo road. 16:23 Guest54 Fleckenstein okay maybe i don't why does it have a ton of dependencies? 16:24 Fleckenstein that's normal for rust programs 16:24 rubenwardy only 6 dependencies 16:24 rubenwardy _looks at any node application_ 16:24 Guest54 lol 16:24 Fleckenstein the idea is to have lots of bloat on the developer's machine and have a lightweight production environment 16:25 Desour rustaceans always look down on go, but they still use car-go to compile their projects 16:25 Guest54 will demons come out of my nose if i use it 16:26 Fleckenstein nah 16:26 Fleckenstein no unsafe blocks 16:26 Guest54 > error: failed to parse manifest 16:26 Guest54 >   this version of Cargo is older than the `2021` edition, and only supports `2015` and `2018` editions. 16:26 Guest54 yeah i am going to pass on that thing 16:26 Guest54 > Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT: 16:26 Guest54 >  cargo libstd-rust-1.48 libstd-rust-dev rust-gdb rustc 16:27 Fleckenstein welp 16:27 Fleckenstein usually you wouldn't install rust using your package manager 16:27 Fleckenstein since you need to manage different toolchains anyway 16:27 Guest54 i install evetything using a package manager 16:27 Guest54 or directly from git obv 16:27 Fleckenstein which you can maybe do with Nix or Gentoo but like 16:27 Fleckenstein rustup 16:28 Fleckenstein in C(++) you simply refrain from using utility libraries and write everything yourself, in Go the standard library is bloated, in Node you bring the bloat to production. I think Rust has a pretty good solution regarding dependencies 16:28 Guest54 look, if rust ppl can't be bothered to package their build environment in debian, maybe it's not comfortable enough for a lazy person like me 16:29 Guest54 i mean i can have python that is long outdated before it will crap out on me 16:29 Guest54 if ppl don't use new features 16:29 Fleckenstein rustup can do a lot more 16:29 Guest54 well, cargo seems to only *download* the dependencies and compile the stuff, what's the problem with backwards compat there? 16:30 Fleckenstein sure change it to 2018 and see 16:30 Fleckenstein painless cross compilation and switching toolchains is what rustup is for 16:30 Fleckenstein also it's more debian's fault, arch linux has latest rust 16:30 Guest54 is this a “you need to have new enough tools because they change all the time” or is the language simply too young to have settled into a plateau and it is justified? 16:31 Fleckenstein no, your compiler is just super outdated 16:31 MTDiscord debian moment 16:31 Fleckenstein like imagine not having a version that was released 2 years ago? 16:32 Guest54 imagine not needing super up to date hipster bling because your software is not designed by 1000 monkeys on 1000 typewriters? :P 16:32 Guest54 like i can have coreutils or gcc from 2015 and it will *mostly* work 16:32 Guest54 i won't get new features 16:32 rubenwardy if you're using a typewriter that might be the problem 16:32 Guest54 should change to a different one 16:32 Guest54 can't multiply myself by 1000×1000 after all 16:32 Fleckenstein what if you want to run a shell script that uses new coreutils features 16:33 Fleckenstein (whatever that's supposed to be) 16:33 Guest54 hahahahaha 16:33 Fleckenstein I had this issue recently 16:33 Fleckenstein I tried running neofetch on RedStarOS 16:33 Guest54 what was the feature? some bashism? 16:33 Fleckenstein bash was too old 16:33 Guest54 it's hairy because OS X ships ancient bash 16:33 Fleckenstein i had to compile it from source 16:33 Guest54 this is why i usually write shell scripts against POSIX sh and test with dash, busybox ash and bash in POSIX mode 16:34 Fleckenstein and for that i had to compile the modern versions of all the other stuff from source 16:34 Fleckenstein like autotools, m4, gmake, gcc9 16:34 Guest54 so what was the feature? 16:34 Fleckenstein idk, it didn't work with old bash 16:34 Guest54 well bash is a stupid shell anyways 16:34 Fleckenstein yea but software moves 16:34 Guest54 sh is too, but it is at least everywhere, almost posixly correct (as if, lol) 16:34 Fleckenstein and it's not wrong to rely on modern software 16:35 Desour rolling release distros like arch are often called to ship cutting edge packages, but it's actually just stable edge (as long as you don't build git AUR packages). debian, ubuntu and co. on the other hand are rusty edge. these rusty edges really hurt and are really awkward to use 16:35 Guest54 depends on who you want to appeal to 16:35 Fleckenstein why do you not want to use up to date software 16:35 Guest54 Desour depends on the maintainer really. arch takes ages to get stuff into unifont, debian has them almost immediately. 16:35 Fleckenstein and i mean 16:35 Guest54 the question is rather, can you do that? 16:35 Fleckenstein up to date meaning not 2 years out of date 16:35 Guest54 for example, my shell scripts will run on old smartphones that have some ancient busybox 16:36 Guest54 which i know, because i once needed that 16:36 Guest54 if i need something that would lead me to “oh the user needs to compile a new bash if they don't have it” either i fake it using stringly typed weirdness or i just don't use shell 16:36 Fleckenstein yea but i can compile rust for anything as well 16:36 Fleckenstein while using lots of modern rust features 16:37 dmj calcul0n: Thanks for recommending I check out Pandorabox as an example of successful chat/IRC integration. If anyone has any other examples, I'd be interested to see them. 16:37 Fleckenstein if i have a modern rust version installed, i can build for old systems 16:37 Fleckenstein this is why we compile in the first place 16:37 Fleckenstein bundling and performance 16:37 Guest54 Fleckenstein i kinda think that the user experience of ”if you have some random python 3.x this stuff could just work” is better than “yeah but you CAN compile this if you put the effort in it” 16:37 Fleckenstein or if you just tell me your host triple 16:38 Guest54 well it works if you change the thing to 2018 16:38 Guest54 or does it? 16:38 Fleckenstein try 16:38 Guest54 i guess this is a trick question 16:38 Guest54 error: failed to select a version for the requirement `clap = "=4.2.1"` 16:38 Guest54 candidate versions found which didn't match: 3.2.23, 3.2.22, 3.2.21, ... 16:39 Fleckenstein remove Cargo.lock 16:39 Guest54 but it was there 16:39 Guest54 isn't that a bad idea 16:39 Guest54 to install any random ass dependency 16:40 Fleckenstein Cargo.lock has the state of the latest build 16:40 Fleckenstein latest successful build 16:40 Guest54 well i get the same error and a new Cargo.lock when i try again 16:40 Fleckenstein interesting, i can compile with edition=2018 16:40 Guest54 from a fresh directory? 16:40 Fleckenstein yes 16:41 Fleckenstein the dependencies have their own edition 16:41 Fleckenstein rust has cross edition compatibility 16:41 Fleckenstein rust is designed for developers 16:41 Guest54 well i see how this is necessary, but it is overkill for the task at hand 16:41 Guest54 it reminds me of how i tried to learn go by trying to replace a calendar shell script that i wrote that is maybe 100 lines max 16:41 Guest54 wait let me se 16:41 rubenwardy does the server list allow CORS? 16:41 Guest54 e 16:42 rubenwardy I'd do this as a web page with client-side JS, would be super portable that way 16:42 Guest54 well, if not, having it do that might be nice? 16:42 Fleckenstein rubenwardy i want something usable, not something portable 16:42 Guest54 indeed it would, only that you could not use it in shell scripts, which is ofc how i use it, which is why i do it 16:43 Guest54 yeah so the shell calendar is 59 lines of bourne shell, which includes a badly cobbled together c header inclusion thingy 16:43 Guest54 after like 100 lines of go i got do date parsing and i just … stopped 16:44 Desour Guest54: fyi, you don't have to use cargo. you can also just directly run rustc. so why don't you just write your own build system? 16:44 Fleckenstein or just install a modern compiler 16:45 Guest54 i do have my own build system (redo), but last time i checked i also have my own minetest-servers implementation and it is interesting to look at the one of Fleckenstein, i don't really need to run it 16:45 Guest54 so i can basically give uninformed takes on this thing without actually losing out on functionality! 16:46 rubenwardy oh is this supposed to be for cli? Assumed it was just for server-owners to debug stuff 16:46 Fleckenstein how is not being able to download a piece of software that came out 2 years ago not an issue on your side tho 16:46 Fleckenstein rubenwardy yes, it's just a minetest server list cli 16:46 Guest54 rubenwardy well i did use it to figure out where my friends were or where mods were used 16:46 Fleckenstein Guest54 I'd love to hear your takes on my code 16:47 Guest54 the take is: i am not a rustacean, don't expect anything 16:48 Fleckenstein informed or uninformed hehe 16:48 Guest54 “we are ashamed when we are not uniform” my ethics teacher used to say 16:48 Fleckenstein ah I should head out to CCC 16:48 Guest54 some time later lots of people bought t-shirts with the school logo on it 16:49 Fleckenstein will be back in a couple minutes 16:49 Guest54 Fleckenstein goes to the cuddly catgirl convention 16:49 Desour !cat 16:49 MinetestBot http://i.imgur.com/rBJgj7d.jpg 16:51 Guest54 rubenwardy ; curl -sI 'https://servers.minetest.net/list' |grep -i access-control 16:51 Guest54 access-control-allow-origin: * 16:51 Guest54 btw 16:51 Guest54 or did you just add that 16:56 rubenwardy i didn't 16:57 MTDiscord (in response to lizzy) yea I had the same in client JS 16:57 Guest54 amazing: when you load a world with the ”new mineclonia” and then want to go back to the old one, it just crashes. 17:00 MTDiscord (in response to muurkha proposing deduping using a hash set) this is the way to go. 17:00 MTDiscord I'd always prefer a well-implemented sorted algorithm over abusing a dynamic set implementation - in this case, a B-Tree - to do the sorting for you. 17:01 MTDiscord Theoretically they have the same runtime complexity, but practically you can expect the constant factors of sorting to be much slower. 17:01 Guest54 i wonder if lizzy has already learned of probabilistic datastructures 17:01 Guest54 a lot of people spend a lot of thought about how to find an application for bloom fliters 17:01 Guest54 filters 17:02 MTDiscord Hash sets allow you to dedupe in expected amortized linear time - way better than the linearithmic time of sorting. 17:03 Guest54 i have once written an implementation of the okcupid matching algorithm that used bloom filters 17:03 Guest54 it worked very well, but i could not understand the failure modes, so i did not use it 17:03 MTDiscord So if you have very few unique values, say m of n, first deduping using a hash set then sorting the remaining values will give you O(n + m log m) vs O(n log n); the constant factors of hash sets are also very good. 17:03 Guest54 can you give me the big o notation for sleepsort hehe 17:04 MTDiscord O(inf)? 17:04 Guest54 hehehehehe 17:04 Guest54 sleep sort is infinitely practical, if you want to sort 10 times faster, just divide your input by 10 17:04 Guest54 thus you become a 10× engineer 17:04 mrkubax10 is there something like on punch entity callback? 17:05 Guest54 (you need to multiply yourself by 10 to offset the /10 runtime) 17:05 MTDiscord No, you'll have to override/hook on_punch for each entity. 17:05 MTDiscord Command sent from Discord by Lars: 17:05 MTDiscord !next 17:05 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 17:05 Guest54 mrkubax10 this seems like an X/Y problem. what exactly are you trying to do? 17:06 Desour sleepsort is O(1) 17:06 mrkubax10 I'm implementing electric sword, if you use it while uncharged it won't take much damage but when it's charged then it takes full damage 17:07 MTDiscord @ROllizzxy (she/her) Duplicates are BTW not a reason to reject sorting algorithms. Many algos (e.g. mergesort or heapsort) handle them completely fine. It's just that quicksort, if implemented improperly (e.g. using the Lomuto partitioning scheme) will degrade to quadratic runtime. With proper Hoare or three-way partitioning (and proper pivot picking!) it is fine though. See here 17:07 MTDiscord https://github.com/TheAlgorithms/Lua/blob/main/src/sorting/quicksort.lua for a reference implementation I wrote in Lua. 17:07 MTDiscord (I have a WIP blog article on the pitfalls of quicksort) 17:07 mrkubax10 I already implemented simillar behavior for pickaxe, axe etc using on_punchnode callback and replacing item with "active" version when tool is charged and reverting back to inactive afterwards 17:08 MTDiscord Ah right, now I remember the third pitfall I forgot to mention: You need to be careful about the order in which you quicksort the subarrays to get logarithmic space complexity. 17:09 Fleckenstein > Fleckenstein goes to the cuddly catgirl convention 17:09 Fleckenstein so true bestie 17:09 Desour mrkubax10: is it an electric sword similar to this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8h8snfYidg ? 17:10 mrkubax10 lol 17:14 Fleckenstein luatic are you sure that building a vector with 12000 elements and then deduping & sorting it is better than inserting into a B-Tree that ends up with 36 elements? 17:20 MTDiscord Fleckenstein: No, first insert into a hash map 17:20 MTDiscord hash set* 17:20 Guest54 luatic you going to put your semgrep rules in the utils directory? 17:20 MTDiscord then put that into a vec, then qsort? 17:21 MTDiscord yes 17:21 MTDiscord thankies :3 17:21 MTDiscord The hash set will end up with 36 elements just as well, and the constant factor might very well be lower than that of the B-Tree 17:21 MTDiscord np 17:21 MTDiscord in fact for 36 elements, your B-Tree would probably be just a single root node X) 17:21 MTDiscord so your B-Tree would practically be just a single sorted array you're inserting into / searching values in 17:22 Fleckenstein is it any different with a hashmap? 17:22 Fleckenstein *set 17:27 Guest54 ROllerozxa btw, regardless of the moral rights to the name – i just checked it, i started and finished my work on the as-of-yet-unpublished unicode renderer entirely before the new mineclonia changed the name to, well, mineclonia. i have still not published it (but i should soon probably), but a bunch of people including cora were aware of me 17:27 Guest54 doing that work and claiming “dead project” when i am doing work for mcl_signs (you can guess which game this belongs to) is a bit of a stretch. 17:28 Guest54 (besides, as far as i know everyone elses unicode rendering craps out on either very long text (due to using texmods) or if you start using some random characters beyond latin-1, so i assume it is not idle busywork) 17:28 Guest54 i mean specifically lua unicode rendering in minetest obv 17:29 Guest54 then again a bunch of people have uncritically believed the “irrlicht is dead” meme ;) 17:29 Guest54 (regardless of the reasons for forking, it is very much alive, the author just does not believe in making frequent releases) 17:29 rubenwardy the last release with features was over 10 years ago 17:30 rubenwardy November 2012 17:30 MTDiscord Fleckenstein: Well with a hash map you'll have expected amortized O(1) insertion and lookup 17:31 MTDiscord Whereas for a sorted array it's O(n) insertion and O(log n) lookup 17:31 Guest54 well, usually ”dead” means ”someone is not working on it anymore” and AFAIK cutealien is doing enough stuff right now 17:32 MTDiscord Guest54: I want to put my semgrep rules somewhere, but I would rather skin a cat than PR the engine utils dir 17:32 Guest54 luatic it is a useful thing everyone should have though 17:32 MTDiscord It'd be great if we could have some utils repo 17:32 Guest54 do it then 17:32 Guest54 semgrep-rules-for-minetest-mods 17:32 Fleckenstein payload.list.iter().flat_map(HashMap::keys).collect::>().into_iter().sorted().collect::>().iter().format(", ") 17:32 Guest54 i may have one too 17:32 Fleckenstein i feel like there should be a more ergonomic way to do this 17:33 Guest54 my rule resulted in cora fixing like 20 crashes recently or so and me finding a lot more 17:33 MTDiscord This is not unergonomic by my standard lol 17:33 Guest54 i am still unsure how to deal with that 17:33 Fleckenstein wait i can drop te second collect 17:33 Guest54 maybe you should write it on separate lines first 17:33 Fleckenstein rustfmt does that for me 17:33 Guest54 i mean i don't put my pipelines on one line either 17:34 MTDiscord Guest54: I think this should be a semgrep repo under the minetest org 17:34 MTDiscord or even a more broad utils repo under the minetest org, though I'm not sure of that 17:34 MTDiscord semgrep feels too specific, utils too broad 🙃 17:34 Guest54 luatic this only works if you don't have to upgrade everything in lockstep, which you might 17:34 MTDiscord oo I can actually create repos under the Minetest org 17:35 Guest54 for example, if some fun-hater changes an API again, adding a semgrep rule can at least help the poor victims of the aggression to fix the breakage while swearing revenge 17:35 Guest54 that is why the rules should be widely disseminated 17:35 Fleckenstein thunderbird as an IRC client? 17:36 Fleckenstein is it any good? 17:36 Guest54 i should probably not have brought up irrlicht. the only thing i wanted to say was “i started doing work on mineclonia (the old project) 2 weeks before the new project called itself that and claiming i am no longer active just as i show up again doing stuff is a bit of a dick move”. 17:37 Fleckenstein unfortunate timing 17:38 Guest54 well the thing is cora knew that 17:38 appguru Fleckenstein: It gets the job done 17:38 Guest54 i did, of course, show her my unicode thingy (i mean, i showed it everyone else too) 17:38 appguru It's actually surprisingly usable TBH 17:39 appguru sometimes I have this weird bug where (presumably after a disconnection) I don't see any messages (including my own) but otherwise it's fine 17:39 Fleckenstein > i decided to fork it with her and reboot the old mineclonia project which has been abandoned for a year (-ryvnf in discord DM, 04/05/2023) 17:39 Fleckenstein i don't think you should assume bad faith 17:42 Guest54 Fleckenstein i am not claiming ryvnf knew anything, but when cora told me that the first thing i was like “ok if you use a different name” 17:43 Guest54 anyways, i'm sure this is not demotivating at all 17:43 Fleckenstein have you talked about this with cora? 17:44 Fleckenstein or should I ask her about it? 17:45 Guest54 look, you can ask her all you want, i use a shitty webirc client because i am still not on my own laptop, so i don't have any logs. 17:45 Guest54 but don't pester her 17:45 Guest54 neither ryvnf nor cora are bad people, they are both capable etc. pp. 17:45 Fleckenstein yea im good friends with cora, dont worry 17:46 Fleckenstein im mostly neutral on this issue 17:46 Guest54 also i think that the response to “i am doing stuff again” from people who were disappointed in me (for different reasons) before can understandably be “i don't believe you, don't stop me doing stuff” 17:46 Guest54 Fleckenstein thinking about it, maybe better don't involve yourself 17:46 Guest54 i mean it's not as if cora and me can't talk ourselves 17:47 Fleckenstein yea that's better 18:07 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add make_irr 13ceec560 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ceec560779e43813dd1c212557160f4dee4910ed (152023-04-11T18:06:15Z) 18:07 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Use smart-ptrs in GUIEngine 13b201c03 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b201c036259a2c2893e54712a8e3e891ad764b71 (152023-04-11T18:06:15Z) 18:07 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Get rid of global dummySoundManager 131dd13da https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/1dd13da37db32972810b942966d5cdd233215f92 (152023-04-11T18:06:15Z) 18:17 Guest54 Warr1024 today i realized what ”eggcorn” refers to and i was enlightened. very nice! 18:33 appguru Guest54: So I cobbled something together based on what I found 18:33 appguru https://gist.github.com/appgurueu/083944e26709e35dbaf5042ceee3ef8b 18:33 Guest54 uh oh 18:34 appguru argh wait a min I think it's borken 18:34 Guest54 i strongly suggest you refactor that to use either a recursive build system or restructure the code so that it has something like that 18:34 rubenwardy might be easier to use "https://content.minetest.net/packages/" .. path .. "/download/ 18:35 rubenwardy actually no, you want to make sure you don't redownload releases 18:35 Guest54 then again, let's make it work first, then make it fast :D 18:35 rubenwardy you also don't want to download every release 18:35 Guest54 well, if you don't want to redownload, i may be right about the recursive build system 18:35 rubenwardy just the latest 18:36 Guest54 (you can't really do downloading things well with a toposort-based mess) 18:38 appguru what 18:38 appguru why would toposort be a mess 18:39 appguru also aren't recursive build systems just implementations of toposort as a recursively implemented reverse postorder? 18:40 Guest54 IMO the important thing in recursive build systems is an interleaving of dependency resolution and dependency tracking and build steps that makes specific problems very easy to use 18:40 Guest54 solve 18:40 Guest54 i mean 18:41 Guest54 you can approximate these problems with the traditional make-like way, but it basically break down when you want to change the dependencies while you are running the thing 18:42 Guest54 which is, counterintuitively, actually something very common. 18:42 Guest54 (at least if you are acting on wobbly ground truth, like a constantly changing dataset) 18:43 Guest54 appguru you can do this all very comfortably yourself without a build system in any case, as long as you have three functions you can call during a build step 18:45 Guest54 1) one function that gathers prerequisites for a target (e.g. downloaded artifact) and redoes the current step in the future if any of those have changed since the last time the function was run for the same target 2) one function that gathers NE prereqs (you prob do not have them unless you can predict future release names) 3. one function that 18:45 Guest54 takes arbitrary bytes and re-runs the current build step if it is invoked in the future with a different input 18:46 Guest54 but don't build that now, it will only distract you 18:46 rubenwardy I definitely feel like you're overcomplicating this 18:47 Guest54 well, as far as i am aware this is the simplest way to both reduce spurious re-downloads and download everything you want. 18:48 Guest54 you can get very close with a much simpler solution if you either accept you will not have an up-to-date download (i.e. the world freezes) or you download stuff a bit too often if the stars align 18:48 Guest54 (which is why i am saying to not do the complex thing) 18:49 Guest54 as far as i see it, pretending the world freezes will work as long as no releases are deleted between time to check and time to use 18:54 Fleckenstein https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/563966858462625822/1095266816902828032/FtSgIkSWYAAkb0t.jpg 18:54 Fleckenstein Guest54 this reminds me of you 18:55 Guest54 Fleckenstein yes, software version numbers are a lie 18:56 Guest54 semantic versioning, more like romantic versioning 18:56 Fleckenstein omg >w< 18:56 Guest54 you have a version number X.Y.Z and the first part changes whenever you hate your users a bit more 18:56 Guest54 the other parts go up when your love and affection returns, but go to zero as soon as the hate for people who like non-breaking changes reaches a, well, breaking-point 18:57 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove formspec_default_bg_color/opacity settings (#13419) 132fc7eb3 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2fc7eb3ea26af60feadc182a9d469d630314665b (152023-04-11T18:57:36Z) 18:57 Guest54 lizzy, it is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good program, must be in want of a version number. 18:58 Fleckenstein well it's good I'm neither single nor a man 18:58 Fleckenstein git hashes are good enough 18:58 Guest54 that was a modified pride and prejudice quote 18:59 Fleckenstein i havent watched in way too long 19:01 Guest54 anyways, i should go eat something 19:02 Guest54 also i think the original quote is about having a fortune and wanting a wife, so it can only be the most biting sarcasm 19:02 Fleckenstein bon appetit 19:04 Guest54 s'il vous plaît pardonnez-moi lizzy, je ne parle pas la langue de la lune (merci quand même) 19:05 Guest54 i once helped a user who was speaking only spanish to get to the clamity nether roof alive and well 19:05 Guest54 using google translate 19:07 Fleckenstein yea 19:07 Fleckenstein i use DeepL to communicate with russian people 19:07 Fleckenstein don't you know a person who worked on DeepL or something 19:08 Guest54 did i say that? 19:09 Guest54 “know” is wrong when i have been socially reclusive so much 19:09 Guest54 in any wase, i have to go, see ya 19:10 Fleckenstein https://mister-muffin.de/p/BOIa.png 19:10 Fleckenstein cya 19:10 Guest54 good that you cover up who said that hehe 19:11 Fleckenstein yea you told me to not leak your name 19:11 Fleckenstein on this chat app 19:11 Guest54 i will give link to a funny vid in return 19:11 Fleckenstein flameshot has a nice censoring feature 19:12 Guest54 Fleckenstein i believe this is a song about kalman filters https://yewtu.be/watch?v=_LjN3UclYzU 19:12 Fleckenstein will listen later 19:13 Fleckenstein still at the cuddly catgirl convention 19:13 Guest54 it also serves as an explanation of kalman filters 19:13 Guest54 it may be that it fits the crowd you are hanging out with hehe 19:14 MTDiscord Guest54: wow, someone atually using invidous 19:14 Guest54 well it does not have ads by default 21:24 TheSilentLink why doesn't pulling the docker container from registry.gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/server:5.7.0 work? isn't 5.7.0 the latest tag? 21:26 TheSilentLink hmm just seen that it points to gitlab not github. Is gitlab still updated? 5.7.0 is missing there 21:26 rubenwardy pushed now 21:27 TheSilentLink ah yes I see the docker image is still building thank 21:27 TheSilentLink thanks 21:28 TheSilentLink Also do I need to download the gameid I want to play or will it automatically download it like the client? 22:06 TheNamelessWonde hi 22:21 Guest54 uh, question: should i try to name mods very general if they solve a general problem or specific? 22:21 Guest54 like “utf8” is probably a mean name to squat on if you encode and decode utf8? 23:34 fluxionary Guest54: names should be descriptive and memorable if possible. the name utf8 seems suitable for that feature. it's useful to search the CDB to see if there's already anything w/ similar names