Time Nick Message 00:41 Guest54 i found a very funny malicious commit in mineclone2 – 1a1ea29f6eb47feaac8a4c7f279d2cc5df176fae 00:41 Guest54 it renames the setting that is used to disable explosions destroying blocks 00:41 Guest54 this is used on servers if you don't want people to blow stuff up 00:41 Guest54 the default is “blowing up stuff is allowed” 00:42 Guest54 so after that commit, on every server that had disabled that, it will be allowed again :D 00:44 Guest54 anyways, the person convincing others that this is a good change should be proud of their trolling skills 02:05 MTDiscord or they're giving their time, and trying their best to help, and i guess it's better than ripping people down... 02:10 Guest54 AncientMariner i understand that you try to see the best in people who contribute to your project, but in this case the only observable effect of this change is that a setting that people use to prevent griefing will be set to ”true” if it was “false” before. it's a laser-focused change that will lead to stuff exploding when it should not. 02:10 Guest54 i have witnessed something similar before 02:10 Guest54 with different projects 02:11 Guest54 i may also have suggested a “nice patch” to one person, but that person programmed malware and my contribution made the malware buggy in a subtle way, so I think i did a good thing :P 02:16 Guest54 AncientMariner for me this is no different then the bug report for minetest where a player asked that in some cases the server should not crash but disconnect the client. there exists one major reason why you might want that change as a player and it is when you want to soft-ban other players by making their client crash without the server 02:16 Guest54 noticing. consequently, minetest did not do that. 02:17 Guest54 some contributors are either malicious or very stupid and i don't think stupidity can be so laser-focused 02:17 Guest54 in other words: regardless of how broken a car is, it will probably not drive backwards at high speed 02:19 Guest54 anyways, i find it highly amusing and the only reason i make fun of it publicly instead of privately is to draw attention to the issue so that people change their settings 02:20 Guest54 and also so they are not tricked by similarly malicious contributors 02:20 Guest54 or rather, contributions 02:21 Guest54 AncientMariner, i think when the enchantments first got proposed to mcl2, you did not need special privs to use /forceenchant. coincidence? maybe :P 02:22 Guest54 it was fixed within a short time 02:28 Guest54 between 2020-11-25 and 2020-12-14 enchantments were free, it's in git log 02:47 MTDiscord i'm a little confused. this was a bug, in which the setting didn't work. if it didn't work, then leaving it was not an option 02:48 MTDiscord renaming it, or leaving would have made little difference 02:48 MTDiscord the game hasn't had 1.0 release yet, and is still subject to change 02:52 Guest54 AncientMariner, oh the setting did not work? then i reject everything i said and claim the opposite 02:53 Guest54 the enchantment story is true though, you can do git log 02:53 Guest54 grep for forcenchant 02:53 Guest54 forceenchant 02:53 MTDiscord every pr we have usually links to an issue with the problem info 02:53 MTDiscord it's worth checking the context first 02:53 MTDiscord people don't change things for no reason 02:54 MTDiscord hamburgers 02:55 Guest54 they do, but i must admit i have to look at it again! 03:09 Guest54 AncientMariner, i have read the git log and found the following context: the tnt_griefing setting was only changing the description of TNT and not its effect. still funny! 03:09 Guest54 it looks like it used to work, but was ruined in 2020 by a refactor 03:09 Guest54 i eat my words then 03:10 Guest54 (i still think such information should be in a commit message, instead of “fix broken setting”) 03:12 MTDiscord Commit logs are not good for context. An issue could have 5+ commits. I've seen some with 20+. Reading the pull request merge log shows lots more information. 03:13 MTDiscord Often a change is in response to a review comment and that won't be in the commit message 03:14 Guest54 commit logs are excellent for context if the commiters actually know how to write 03:14 Guest54 for example, see commit 94960b64d42294ca5dddca2665eb60a8d1230bb9 or 41550da87ba4057e7fc4f33c077f70d8115c08bb 03:14 MTDiscord haaaaaaands 03:15 Guest54 which contain an exact explanation of the problem and the solution 03:16 Guest54 67ae203772199b4b96bb5f189c7ee90e43178db3 is also good 03:22 Guest54 AncientMariner commit messages like “Fix mcl_skins crash” or “Fix ooops” or “Fix whoops” are super lazy and you know it. making fun of stuff without having context is also lazy, so we are even, but the whole “oh i just put the link to the review in the PR and that explains everything” is extremely frustrating, beside it obviously 03:22 Guest54 breaking when mesehub goes down. 03:22 Guest54 IMO a commit message should explain what happened 03:23 Guest54 and i think everyone smart enough to fix a bug is smart enough to explain it like in the three commits i have given 03:24 Guest54 Warr1024 is nodecore skyhell made to be frustrating or is it just the purest nodecore experience? 03:25 Guest54 i mean i am replaying it now, so it is not *too* frustrating 03:25 Guest54 but my island burned down after i dug and got lava 03:26 MTDiscord It's meant to be frustrating. Experts only. 03:27 MTDiscord Basically Kimapr gets bored easily so he keeps trying to make the game harder 😆 03:27 Guest54 lol 03:29 Guest54 well, i have broken bedrock, built bases in the void, found a dupe and managed to create water in the nether, i think i'll manage … at some point ;) 03:29 Guest54 the problem is just that NodeCore does not seem as buggy as mcl2 03:29 Guest54 the real game is to find the glitches that let you do things you want :D 03:33 MTDiscord are you playing in singleplayer? there's a server of this 03:33 Guest54 i have to beat the thing myself 03:33 Guest54 i mean i have not understood what pumwater is and why there is a lava under my island 03:33 Guest54 but i am determined to get to the bottom of this 03:34 MTDiscord Guest54: i think everyone plays the skyblock mostly by themselves on the server 03:34 Guest54 why would i want to be on the server then 03:35 MTDiscord well you could visit other peoples bases 03:35 Guest54 pumwater is evil 03:35 MTDiscord pumwater IS lava 03:35 Guest54 why is it not called lava 03:37 MTDiscord why is eggcorn called an eggcorn? 03:37 MTDiscord pumwater is the liquid state of pumice 03:38 Guest54 yeah and it set my island on fire AGAIN 03:38 Guest54 curse your sudden and inevitable betrayal, nodecore! 03:39 Guest54 Kimapr you like exile too i guess? 03:41 MTDiscord nah exile is kinda wacky 03:42 MTDiscord idk how to play it 03:43 Guest54 lol 03:43 Guest54 and i thought exile is basically what nodecore skyblock does, only much more friendly to the player 03:44 MTDiscord no 03:44 MTDiscord in nodecore, every disaster is caused by your actions 03:45 Guest54 i would question it if it did not sound so plausible 03:45 Guest54 nodecore is existential horror 03:45 Guest54 everything is my fault 03:45 MTDiscord in exile you have to actively fight disaster (death) 03:45 Guest54 i think that in many games you have both 03:45 Guest54 so that players can convince themselves it was just bad luck 03:46 Guest54 take card games where you shuffle 03:46 MTDiscord when it comes to nodecore, I am partly sadistic (I mean sadism towards myself), as I learned most of what I know about nodecore on the skyblock server 03:46 Guest54 i like to play roguelikes, maybe that is why i also like nodecore 03:46 Guest54 do you two also like hyperrogue? 03:46 Guest54 i play it a lot lately 03:46 Guest54 it is a non-euclidean roguelike 03:46 Guest54 i.e. parallel lines diverge 03:46 Guest54 pretty wacky 03:47 Guest54 and also every disaster is caused by oneself 03:47 MTDiscord skyhell is less predictable to nodecore non-experts because the starting island is maximally compact and metastable 03:47 MTDiscord seemingly innocent actions cause doom 03:47 MTDiscord say, planting a tree at the edge of the island 03:48 MTDiscord yah, because you fall or lmoose just about every wood plank 03:48 Guest54 it reminds me of trying to survive in the void actually 03:48 MTDiscord *lose 03:48 MTDiscord PrairieWind: that one is also a issue of Skill 03:48 Guest54 randomly falling items, skill issue lol 03:48 MTDiscord you don't have to lose your planks 03:48 Guest54 what is the secret trick so they do not fall everywhere? 03:49 MTDiscord kimapr, I dont have enough planks to catch the planks yet 03:49 MTDiscord shift 03:49 MTDiscord just put walls around the logs you cut lol 03:49 MTDiscord you don't need planks, leaves and humus work 03:49 Guest54 i see 03:49 MTDiscord . . . 03:49 Guest54 i did that already but 03:49 Guest54 it does not work very well 03:49 Guest54 also what's the deal with the lava on the island 03:50 MTDiscord let me guess...somebody disabled shift usage on nodecore??? 03:50 Guest54 is there some cobblestone generator hidden? 03:50 Guest54 no idea what you mean with shift usage, sneak? 03:50 MTDiscord yeh 03:50 MTDiscord cobble creation is not that easy in nodecore 03:50 MTDiscord the sneaking to not fall 03:50 Guest54 i use that to not fall off the island 03:50 MTDiscord sneaking to not fall does work 03:51 MTDiscord make sure your keyboard is not broken 03:51 MTDiscord what if I took a hammer and busted the shift keys? 😏 03:52 MTDiscord pumwater is in the island because it lets you make more pumwater and lux 03:52 Guest54 why would i need more pumwater lol 03:52 Guest54 also i have no tools because i destroyed my tools with my tools 03:52 Guest54 well half the island was on fire and my tools are gone 03:52 Guest54 i try again 03:52 MTDiscord Guest54: because you have to spend pumwater to make more lux 03:53 Guest54 how does this all work 03:53 MTDiscord and you have to spend lux to make more lode 03:53 MTDiscord erlehmann, I came up with another great funny mod idea for mineclone2 after I watched the minecraft video about their new april fools update 03:53 MTDiscord exploding flowers 03:53 Guest54 that's not funny 03:53 MTDiscord its a cruel joke 03:53 Guest54 in nodecore i only got as far as making a smelter to make glass 03:53 MTDiscord thats funny for me 03:53 MTDiscord when I implement it for aprils fools if I ever get a server going 03:54 MTDiscord :trollface: 03:54 Guest54 PrairieWind if you want to make a funny mcl2 mod just make one where punching a tree deals so much damage that you will never be able to dig 2 logs (which you would need to make an axe) 03:54 MTDiscord never? 03:55 Guest54 never 03:55 Guest54 well you can respawn 03:55 MTDiscord Ive seen a minecraft video where wood explodes and disappears when you mine it 03:55 Guest54 maybe make it so that wood is just undiggable by hand 03:55 MTDiscord and you face the consequences of the explosions 03:55 Guest54 on april first 03:55 Guest54 everyone will love it 03:55 MTDiscord you could just get a creeper to dig wood for you 03:55 MTDiscord thats simple enough 03:55 Guest54 kimapr i like how you think 03:55 Guest54 but that's the point 03:56 MTDiscord override the wood to remove the digging groups 03:56 Guest54 nodecore style inventory for mcl2 when 03:56 MTDiscord though creeper mining is very lossy 03:56 Guest54 items are stored in the player chest 03:56 MTDiscord one block at a time update 03:56 Guest54 (i.e. on the player, on the chest) 03:57 MTDiscord you say 2 logs deal enough damage to kill you, but can you survive 1 log? 03:57 Guest54 PrairieWind as i suggested privately, please make a mod where you are an enderman. you can hold one block and have free chorus teleports 03:57 MTDiscord you could dig the log, heal, then dig another one 03:57 Guest54 also looking at other players will make you angry 03:58 MTDiscord That last one is often true for me anyway 03:58 Guest54 Kimapr it is meant to frustrate people who think they can punch trees without consequences, not make it impossible. also, i like how you think. 03:59 Guest54 uh, when do leaves become pickable dry leaves? 03:59 Guest54 is it random? 03:59 MTDiscord it would take a bit of work, but I could look into making a mod to do that, and you can set your mob character through commands and a handy button in the inventory 03:59 MTDiscord Guest54: yes 04:00 MTDiscord loose leaves are one of the possible leaf drops 04:00 MTDiscord Leaf drops are random, except on the very first tree in skyhell and skyrealm mods, where there is guaranteed to be at least 2 eggcorns and 3 sticks or something. 04:00 MTDiscord although it might give me a headache trying to figure out the keys and actual character change code and make endermen not attack players when the player is in enderman mode 04:00 MTDiscord I don't remember the exact numbers, but a few select leaf nodes have deterministic drops 04:01 MTDiscord or trying to do fun stuff like use keys for triggering teleports or explosions if you are creeper 04:01 MTDiscord Once you've got enough to make a 2-tree farm, the chance of getting totally screwed by RNG is virtually zero so players are on their own. 04:02 Guest54 i will probably get screwed by the pumwater 04:03 MTDiscord You have something like a 25% chance of being able to have one metal tool without taming and cultivating that pumwater first. 04:03 MTDiscord done that been there 04:03 MTDiscord not the metal tool part 04:03 MTDiscord the screwed by pumwater part 04:03 MTDiscord You generally want to be able to have more than 1 metal tool of course, so... 04:03 MTDiscord burns my island down often enough. 04:04 MTDiscord The pumwater isn't actually screwing you. The sponges screw you, the pumwater is just the fireworks afterward. 04:04 Guest54 i see 04:06 MTDiscord The whole thing is built around the maybe-bug that living sponges quench but are not dried out by igniters. 04:07 Guest54 a classic minetest thing, the maybe-bug 04:08 MTDiscord Nah, it's a feature of any project where what I intended isn't knowable until after I see the actual results. 04:09 MTDiscord (well, beyond that what I intended was to see the results) 04:10 MTDiscord A lot of NodeCore's maybe-bugs are "A works as intended, B works as intended, and the intersection of A and B was not fully considered at design time" 04:10 Guest54 emergent gameplay ig 04:10 Guest54 reminds me of the dwarf-eating fishes in dwarf fortress 04:10 Guest54 it was not intended 04:11 Guest54 just a consequence of the implementation 04:11 MTDiscord Emergent gameplay occasionally leads to gameplay emergencies. 04:12 Guest54 my favourite emergent gameplay is still the enchanted book dupe, where you could use one enchanted book to enchant a stack of enchanted books … because books need to be enchantable to have enchanted books in the first place, but unenchanted books are stackable ;) 04:12 Guest54 uh, do i need the sponges so the tree grows? 04:13 MTDiscord The "goal" of the skyblock is to be able to have potentially infinite supplies of virtually all resources, i.e. you need the sponges to be able to have infinite sponges. 04:14 MTDiscord I think if you only want to be able to have infinite water, you only need one of the sponges long-term 04:14 MTDiscord Initially though you need to keep at least one sponge alive, even if you don't plan to farm them, because it's the only thing keeping your pumwater from burning everything. 04:15 MTDiscord trees dont need water, but it helps 04:15 Guest54 ig i'll not touch the sponges until i understand the issue better 04:16 MTDiscord Trees want soil, moisture, and air. I think the node they grow from (sprout and then stump) both contain all 3, so they have a non-zero baseline growth rate, even without a favorable environment. 04:17 MTDiscord they also need light 04:17 MTDiscord True dat, and that they cannot provide themselves. 04:17 MTDiscord which is especially noticeable when you're playing in absolute darkness 04:17 Guest54 are you saying i need a fire lol 04:17 MTDiscord I guess if you really want the ultimate challenge, you'd add Nodeternal Darkness on top of SkyHell ... but I don't know if that's been proven beatable yet. 04:18 Guest54 what does that do, eternal night? 04:18 MTDiscord It's actually darker than night. 04:18 MTDiscord it's like falling deep into a cave with no lights 04:18 MTDiscord except it's like that everwhere 04:19 MTDiscord Warr1024: iirc i have been able to grow a tree in dark skyhell 04:19 MTDiscord It does relax a couple of "requires direct skylight" mechanics to allow them to use artificial light though. 04:19 MTDiscord Haha, nice, though you have to be able to grow more than 1 I think before we can be sure it's really playable. 04:20 MTDiscord Like, you need to be able to get a tree farm going far away enough that you don't suffer massive radiation before you progress anywhere. 04:20 MTDiscord that seems doable 04:20 MTDiscord YEah, that's the hypothesis. 04:20 MTDiscord just need to get some distant fires going 04:21 MTDiscord it's possible in dark skyrealm, should be in skyhell too 04:22 MTDiscord The 2 significant challenges that skyhell has that are unique and not present in skyrealm are the 2 time pressure mechanics: the radiation, and the fact that you need a sponge squeezer before you can do optics. 04:22 MTDiscord So you have to get away from the lux in your starting island early, and can't afford to idle around it much, or you suffer radiation and the loss of inventory slots with no water to wash off is pretty devastating 04:23 MTDiscord and having to manually squeeze the sponge and extend the water, and not let the supply dry out while you're handling hazmat, is maddening. 04:25 Guest54 uh, radiation? 04:25 MTDiscord yes, radiation 04:25 Guest54 what the fuck 04:26 Guest54 how far away do i need to be 04:26 MTDiscord you have 15 cubes of radioactive rock under your feet 04:27 Guest54 if this were any other game i would think you are joking 04:27 Guest54 so how far away do i need to be to not lose item slots? 04:27 MTDiscord dunno 04:27 Guest54 i already build a wood/dirt island at the edge to make more trees 04:27 Guest54 and replaced the dirt on the original island largely with ash 04:30 MTDiscord the further away you are from nasty rocks the less irradiated you'll be 04:31 MTDiscord Most radiant effects (radiation, infrared) follow a natural inverse square law. Shielding is also a thing (though not for you because you don't have the materials for that yet) 04:32 MTDiscord usually, i just yoink one of the sponges from the island and use it to unradiate myself 04:32 MTDiscord tbh I don't even remember how I calculate path length, or what effect scattering has on the path length... 04:33 MTDiscord i dont think early-game radiation was ever a big problem for me 04:33 MTDiscord Ah, yeah, I guess if you're careful enough you can go ahead and start using the sponge for manual showering. I hadn't thought of touching the sponges until I was ready for a water tower... 04:34 Guest54 i would question it if it did not sound so plausible 04:34 Guest54 the radiation thing i mean 04:34 Guest54 i like the use of particles in nodecore a lot btw Warr1024 04:35 MTDiscord Heh, I still consider the radiation model very simplistic, even if I did model scattering and absorption of materials and such. Like, that only currently affects the player's exposure, and the way radioactive materials interact with each other is basically just simple proximity checks. 04:36 MTDiscord Well, it's gotta be playable on a ThinkPad T430s or it's not gonna have trouble getting developed at all... 04:37 MTDiscord The real life universe can scatter trillions of particles everywhere every femtosecond but I've got this whole von neumann bottleneck I gotta work around. 04:39 Guest54 what do the particles mean that come when i punch a growing tree? 04:40 Guest54 can i threaten it into growing faster? 04:40 Guest54 meanwhile, i did build a tree at the edge of the island 04:40 Guest54 well 04:40 Guest54 it was nice while it lasted 04:41 MTDiscord Guest54: yes, you can bully trees into growing faster 04:41 MTDiscord i do that extensively myself 04:42 Guest54 this is how it looks right now https://mister-muffin.de/p/rgEc.png 04:42 Guest54 not great, not terrible 04:43 MTDiscord looks like you can still continue 04:44 Guest54 well i built this whole new island just so i could, yes 04:44 MTDiscord did you figure soil renewal out yet? 04:44 Guest54 nope 04:44 Guest54 are you going to tell me? 04:44 MTDiscord maybe 04:45 Guest54 in mcl2 it's like 2 gravel + 2 dirt = 4 coarse dirt, then you use a farming implement on it to make farmland out of it 04:45 Guest54 farmland, when dug, drops dirt 04:45 Guest54 so in the end you make 2 dirt from 2 gravel, using 2 dirt and a farming tool 04:45 Guest54 as a cataclyst 04:45 Guest54 catalyst 04:45 MTDiscord farmland? i usually made dirt paths 04:45 Guest54 oh that works too, lol 04:46 Guest54 probably 04:46 MTDiscord in nodecore soil renewal involves composting 04:46 Guest54 the meanest thing about the island is btw that stuff just falls down when i mine it 04:47 Guest54 i'd much more enjoy a nodecore prison 04:47 Guest54 where the world is infinite stone 04:47 Guest54 and you are in a small room 04:47 Guest54 or mineshaft 04:47 MTDiscord infinite stone? 04:47 MTDiscord that's a lot of free stuff 04:47 Guest54 i once did that 04:47 Guest54 infinite stone + wuzzy mineshafts 04:47 Guest54 was funny 04:48 Guest54 not in nodecore though 04:48 MTDiscord in nodecore there's this node that is formed when pumwater is quenched 04:49 MTDiscord pumice 04:49 MTDiscord it drops nothing when dug 04:49 Guest54 why 04:49 MTDiscord and it disrupts water and pumwater flows, greatly amplifying the disaster 04:49 Guest54 in mcl2 there is poisoned potato 04:49 MTDiscord chaos and destruction 04:49 Guest54 it is the only useless item 04:50 Guest54 you eat it, you get damage 04:50 MTDiscord well, pumice is not entirely useless 04:50 MTDiscord you can walk on it, for example 04:50 MTDiscord it's solid 04:50 Guest54 want to be funny? you can rename items using an anvil. just rename it “baked potato” 04:50 MTDiscord until it meets pumwater that is 04:50 Guest54 some people will look at the name and eat 04:50 Guest54 pumwater seems to be evil 04:51 MTDiscord when pumice touches pumwater, it melts 04:51 MTDiscord into pumwater 04:51 MTDiscord pumwater is good if you handle it very carefully 04:52 Guest54 i like the regular lava 04:53 Guest54 n8 n8 04:53 MTDiscord ? 04:54 Guest54 night 04:55 Guest54 good night 05:36 MTDiscord They called you nate 16:50 Guest54 does anyone here remember luola or liero? i wonder if there are games like this for minetest 16:58 celeron55 i grew up with liero. good game 16:59 Guest54 i recently found https://liero.be and https://www.webliero.com/ – if you want to play some time, tell :D 16:59 Guest54 (the latter page enables you to play liero in the browser) 17:00 Guest54 liero was one of the first games i can remember modding, since everything was configurable in plaintext 17:03 Guest54 does anyone know if there is stuff like minetestmapper colors.txt in the node definition? 17:03 Guest54 i could use it for xmaps 17:05 Desour minimap_color? 17:05 Guest54 thx 17:06 Guest54 Desour wait, how can i access this from lua 17:07 Guest54 is it simply a node property like liquid range? 17:07 Guest54 seems so 17:07 Desour it's probably just client-side 17:07 Guest54 thx 17:07 Desour so you can't at all 17:08 Guest54 not? 17:08 Desour or only if it's manually specified 17:08 Desour idk how it's made 17:08 Guest54 c_content.cpp has push_ARGB8(L, c.minimap_color); and lua_setfield(L, -2, "minimap_color");, so it is readonly right 17:08 Guest54 ? 17:08 Desour idk 17:09 Guest54 i'll try to use it 17:09 Guest54 maybe ppl use xmaps then lol 17:10 Guest54 i relatively often see in-game maps on walls, but outside of mcl_maps i think those are simply rendered outside the game 17:10 Guest54 using minetest mapper or so 17:14 Guest65 Hello, is there anyone here? 17:15 Guest54 Warr1024 thanks for telling me about the radiation, i got the sponge :) 17:16 Guest65 Hello! 17:26 Guest54 Warr1024 Kimapr btw did i ask you if you liked hyperrogue? 23:20 Guest54 AncientMariner any idea why previous versions of mineclone2 are no longer here? https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/releases/ 23:21 Guest54 rubenwardy the three links for “how can i create releases automatically?” here seem to be dead: https://content.minetest.net/help/faq/ 23:32 Guest54 AncientMariner the page used to look like this: https://web.archive.org/web/20211016022837/https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/releases/ 23:35 Guest54 well, since nodecore still has releases, i guess cdb did not just delete old packages … https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nodecore/releases/ 23:40 Guest54 okay i was informed the older versions had copyright infringement