Time Nick Message 15:50 Warr1024 Hmm, I just realized, if the MT listing on the Play Store is still down ... well, Roller's NodeCore app is still up, and that's IIRC just vanilla Minetest with some artwork and main menu tweaks, so it should be sufficient to play. 15:52 Warr1024 It looks like it filters the server list, but if e.g. if you want "emergency" access and remember your server address, you can still join manually. 15:54 independent56 Would it be possible for a mod to delete map.sqlite entirely from the system? 15:54 independent56 Or do i have to take the slow approach and do //deleteblocks 15:54 Warr1024 If you delete map.sqlite while the game is running, it tends to crash out. 15:54 independent56 Don't worry, it does it just before it shuts down the server 15:54 Parnikkapore_m might be possible using unsafe mode, but also ^ 15:54 Warr1024 Best option would be to have the game trigger some external thing and then shut itself down so it can be deleted by a script before the server restarts. 15:55 independent56 I'm considering making a backrooms fork where you can build and then randomly everything gets removed in a 10-hour long apocolipse 15:55 Parnikkapore_m map sync taking place while the shutdown callback is running in 3... 2... 1... 15:55 independent56 So i'll just have to hack worldedit's deleteblocks command for the mod? 15:56 Kimapr "Hmm, I just realized, if the..." <- https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.voxelmanip.rollertest 15:57 Kimapr this exists 15:58 MTDiscord Interesting ... just a repackaging of Minetest without a specific game? 15:58 MTDiscord no, it's a fork 15:58 independent56 It could be worse; if i had it i'd put ads in 15:59 independent56 But i don't so i won't 15:59 MTDiscord it has about the same non-game specific changes that the nodecore app has 15:59 MTDiscord btw, @ROllerozxa (he/him) I noticed that the mobile controls for NodeCore for Android are different from default MT ... and it looks like you hid the inventory button entirely, but that has the "player's guide" and discovery/hint system which might be useful. Seems like it might be better to have it hidden inside the "gear" menu...? 15:59 MTDiscord Oh, I found it you changed the icon... 15:59 MTDiscord huh whar 15:59 MTDiscord I hid it? it's supposed to be at the bottom left to the hotbar 16:00 MTDiscord Then I guess the only thing actually missing is I don't see an Aux1 key, which is not terrible but would be nice to have still... 16:00 MTDiscord it probably also has that, lemme check 16:02 Kimapr erm, nope, it does not haves that 16:03 MTDiscord Aux is used for a few things like the "drop everything" command, for which there's actually a discovery. 16:03 MTDiscord huh 16:03 MTDiscord I thought aux1 was entirely unused in nodecore 16:03 MTDiscord nearly, but the ability to bulk drop stuff was a big QoL thing. 16:03 MTDiscord sneak+aux1+drop will drop all stacks of items matching the selected one. 16:04 Kimapr Rollerozxa: aux1 is used for WAVING 16:04 Kimapr (very important social gesture) 16:04 MTDiscord ah, that too 16:08 Warr1024 There's room for an Aux1 button on the very bottom right, it looks like. 16:09 Warr1024 I am rather tempted to just start using the NodeCore app as my daily driver for MT on mobile. The UI is simplified, it works well, and it's actually based on a newer engine version... 16:14 MTDiscord yeah bottom right is around where the aux1 button used to be, I probably should add it back 16:14 MTDiscord there's also the setting that allows for aux1 to be triggered using the touchscreen joystick... which is a bit odd but interesting I guess 16:15 MTDiscord also yes WAVING very important 16:17 MTDiscord reminds me though, I really need to update my apps... 16:21 Warr1024 Hard to decide what icon it should have. You could use a hand icon for it, since it's used to wave, and also the "drop multiple stacks" is, I guess ... hand related? 16:21 Warr1024 Just labeling it Aux1 is kinda blah. But then, all the documentation calls it Aux/Aux1/Special or whatever because thats what it was called in base MT. 17:03 kilbith listen up, people 17:04 kilbith this obtuse being that is sfan5 has chosen the wrong target and decided to put me in quiet mode on the dev channel 17:04 kilbith me who had the good intention of preserving the community from a guy who posts screwy sexual stuff on his blog and constantly drain everyone's energy 17:05 kilbith if the community prefers erle's participation to mine, fine, I will abide by the general opinion and quietly retire 17:05 kilbith but there's no room for the two of us here 17:07 kilbith sfan5: I give you exactly 2 hours before removing this quiet mode, and I'll close my PRs if applicable 17:07 celeron55 that's bullshit, you're perfectly capable of coexisting with erle 17:08 muurkha kilbith: I think you also said you were writing your mods in such a way that nobody else would be able to maintain them because you want to keep other people from forking them 17:08 celeron55 and you're just creating drama for the sake of it 17:08 celeron55 go find something more productive to do 17:08 muurkha so I'm not convinced of your sincerity about "preserving the community" 17:09 muurkha also how is erle's sexual orientation any of your business? 17:14 kilbith MT is already on the downward slope in terms of popularity, we'll see how erle can replace me to help you get back on the track? 17:14 kilbith if you think silencing me can help you, you're kidding yourself 17:15 muurkha maybe other people who wouldn't put up with your bullshit, and haven't yet started playing Minetest, will replace you 17:15 kilbith I don't even know who the fuck you are muurkha, I never talked with you 17:15 muurkha a lot of people are not going to be enthusiastic about you rooting around in their personal blogs to see if you disapprove of their sexual preferences 17:16 muurkha I'm just a muurkha, kilbith 17:18 muurkha but even I can state the obvious 17:18 appguru kilbith: I don't think anyone here is willing to throw their moral integrity out of the window just for the appeasement of the offender - even if the offender has very promising PRs open like you. 17:19 MTDiscord I think there are more valid reasons to criticise erle than his dating profile, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point kilbith 17:19 celeron55 kilbith: i am not under contract to make MT have any slope whatsoever so i'm free to not listen to that reasoning even if it was true. and you are not under contract to make MT better either, so you could just leave any moment regardless of how this issue goes for you. in essence what comes out of this doesn't matter. i could ban you or leave you whine 17:19 MTDiscord kink shaming ain't cool. ehrl can certainly rub people up the wrong way, but to see this from you when every comment i've seen from you has been laced in condescension is a bit rich etc. 17:19 muurkha erle can be hard to get along with but he isn't actively malicious 17:20 celeron55 kilbith: so what's left is your intentional rudeness towards others. that doesn't work much in your favor 17:20 MTDiscord plus, you're also forcing people to make a choice. and no one likes blackmail 17:21 MTDiscord "kilbith BOT — Today at 1:02 PM you are only 18 years old and you don't have the necessary maturity to judge things correctly" 17:21 kilbith celeron55: sure, be aware of your net losses then; I already have a fine contract somewhere, and for sure I don't need MT to exist as a developer 17:22 MTDiscord i would say though, kilbith, take some time, you're clearly annoyed, and maybe you're justified in your frustration, but there are many ways to go about it 17:22 muurkha celeron55: what about kilbith's attempts to skirt around the edges of open-source licensing by writing their code so that only they can read it? (an unsuccessful attempt, to be sure, because other people are more capable than kilbith thinks) 17:22 MTDiscord take some time before burning the building down, as it is hard to repairr 17:22 kilbith now that's only up to sfan5 to take the wisest decision or not 17:23 muurkha also I think publicly shaming others for their sexual preferences goes quite a bit beyond just "intentional rudeness" 17:24 muurkha sometimes it gets the target killed 17:24 Kimapr why did kilbith become cringe? 17:24 kilbith muurkha: it's my project, I do whatever I want with it, you should be already thankful that I dedicated 2 years of my talent to create this mod 17:25 lebruhgamer[m] "so I'm not convinced of your..." <- no one gonna be convinced of that .. remember that kilbith also wrote anti- stuff before and tried to remove compatibility with older hardware and sh*t on poor countries before 17:26 lebruhgamer[m] for reference on anti- stuff: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2023-03-02#i_6059242 17:26 muurkha lebruhgamer[m]: oh, I didn't remember that, thanks 17:26 lebruhgamer[m] for reference on poor people: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2022-08-17#i_6008349 17:26 muurkha oh, becuase I'm not on #minetest-dev 17:26 kilbith Russia being a shit country is for sure an obvious statement 17:27 kilbith like it or not 17:27 MTDiscord seriously, are you just trying to go out with a bang? 17:27 lebruhgamer[m] no one gonna trust someone with that kind of bad attitude 17:27 MTDiscord firing everywhere and burning all bridges? 17:27 MTDiscord I mean, minetest as a community would probably be better off without a toxic individual that publicly shames someone for their dating profile that exists outside of and with no relevance to minetest 17:27 MTDiscord take some time, ehrl has recently gone heavy on me, and i'm not supporting this. this isn't the right way 17:28 muurkha Kimapr: maybe they gradually became more driven by hate and fear over time? that seems to have happened to a lot of people over the last three or four years 17:29 muurkha the question is, when you have someone primarily driven by hate and fear of those different from them, how do you minimize the damage they can do to the others around them? 17:29 Ingar assassination 17:29 MTDiscord open source brings the worst out in people, passion, and frustrations can result in nasty manifestations 17:29 celeron55 i don't really know how new you guys are, but kilbith has always been like that. for probably almost a decade 17:29 muurkha heh 17:30 muurkha is that why VanessaE left? 17:30 celeron55 and yes, it's cringe 17:30 appguru AncientMariner: It also brings the best out in people though. 17:30 Kimapr i haven't really been observing kilbith 17:31 celeron55 and bans don't fix him, or keep him away. he just comes back at the earliest convenience to make PRs and be rude again. it's weird 17:31 MTDiscord anyway, i probably shouldn't have got involved. i'll extract myself 🙂 17:32 celeron55 anyway, if he goes by himself just because sfan5 +q'd him on #-dev that sounds nice and convenient to me 17:32 kilbith then fine, I won't bother you any longer if you don't want to see me here anymore, just need a clear confirmation 17:32 MTDiscord i would be careful with that. i'm on the spectrum and got wound up, i got silenced and it amplified things 17:33 MTDiscord it can have a nasty effect when you have something to say and can throw gasoline on the fire 17:33 celeron55 if you're nice to everyone, i want to see you. if you aren't, i don't want to 17:33 MTDiscord of course, it was the wrong place 17:33 kilbith I probably deserve better than this project and the people involved in it 17:35 kilbith it's like trying to fill a spherical hole with a cube, no matter how hard you try, it will never really fit 17:35 celeron55 this seems like blackmailing to me 17:35 appguru Have you ever considered that perhaps this project also deserves better than you (in terms of behavior at least)? 17:36 appguru s/than/of 17:36 muurkha AncientMariner: I think your contributions to the dialogue have been the most evenhanded 17:37 MTDiscord thanks. probably not at the start, but i caught myself. my mistake 17:38 celeron55 yeah just avoid getting invested in kilbith, it's not personally worth it 17:40 kilbith go fuck yourself man 17:40 Kimapr you mean go fsck yourself? 17:41 kilbith I mean when was the last time you did something useful for MT? 17:41 lebruhgamer[m] and here we can see the attitude of someone trying to "preserve the community" 😏 17:41 MTDiscord 🍿 17:43 lebruhgamer[m] most people here don't really see much of his attitude because he's been in #minetest-dev instead of here, but that's always been how he is .. look at the irc log for proof 17:45 Desour kilbith: it looks to me like it would be good for your mental health if you didn't take things so personal every time. people criticizing what you say doesn't mean that they hate you, they just want to show you that your behaviour is not fine in some way. I think you could achieve your goals much easier with objective criticism, so that you don't become the new objective of the of discussion 17:45 MTDiscord good point, and i think the original point about reverting that pr was quite a popular view 17:46 MTDiscord though always focus on the issue, and not people 17:46 muurkha those links you posted demonstrate extremely contemptible and repellent behavior on kilbith's part, lebruhgamer[m] 17:47 muurkha I think there are times when focusing on people is important 17:49 kilbith I mean I don't have to mix with poor, talentless people who can't even apply to a job offer I posted that'd allow them to buy like... a new computer? 17:50 kilbith please stop complaining about your old hardware if you can't even grab a job offer 17:50 MTDiscord not a good luck, dude 17:50 lebruhgamer[m] no one even thought that, in some places, there's no offer to begin with 17:50 muurkha Indonesian 13-year-olds playing Minetest on their cellphones would also probably appreciate it if you'd stop "mixing with" them 17:50 kilbith zero reaction to this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29298 17:52 lebruhgamer[m] that require skill though, and how would someone in poor country have the skill to accept your job offer 17:52 kilbith since when I care of poor countries even? 17:52 muurkha it would also require voluntarily interacting with kilbith, which seems like a bad idea 17:52 muurkha I mean, this is a case where focusing on people matters: when you're considering a job offer 17:54 lebruhgamer[m] see, you can clearly see how this person is 17:54 MTDiscord 3d modelling is a very particular skillset, easier to find programmers, and you probably know that 17:55 MTDiscord yeah I don't know if you're aware of that kilbith but there aren't a lot of 3D modellers around here in minetest 17:55 kilbith my guess is that there are just a lot of lazy people here 17:55 lebruhgamer[m] no one gonna trust someone who clearly don't care a subset of the world 17:55 kilbith whose then complain about their old hardware not supporting some advanced features 17:55 MTDiscord (if i insult everyone's character, surely they're respond and i can feel justified in my exit from this project) 17:56 muurkha there are some, ROllerozxa, I mean, you can build 3-D models for Minetest mods in Blender or whatever, and use them in a mod 17:56 MTDiscord it said "competent" and that's a subjective bar which even talented people doubt they'll hit 17:57 MTDiscord most brilliant people have plenty of self-doubt 17:57 MTDiscord because they have standards and are aware they need to improve and push themselves 17:57 muurkha it sounded like kilbith was looking for people to volunteer to be abused by kilbith 17:57 definitelya kilbith: My guess is you like the attention when people demean you. That's also a kink, just saying. 17:58 muurkha haha 17:58 kilbith what an horrible human being I am, eh? 17:58 kilbith booo 17:58 kilbith all of that would be quickly fixed with slaps in the face 17:59 MTDiscord i have no idea who is supposed to be keyboard slapping who 18:00 lebruhgamer[m] kilbith: we already went through this before -- they can't upgrade because they don't have money, because they can't get a job, because they live in unfortunate country where it's hard to get jobs in and they also can't move elsewhere because they don't have money to move to begin with, and you here just casually using wealth position to abuse others -- the advanced features are fine as optional thing (so both poor and rich can play 18:00 lebruhgamer[m] it by adjusting their settings), but you want to drop support for older stuff and thus only catering to rich people 18:00 MTDiscord but yeah, it is worth considering logging off, watch a program, take a walk, and cool down 18:01 MTDiscord you'll find that if you log off, cool down, and come back tomorrow, many will accept you and your contributions and not dwell on the past (i don't talk for others of course) 18:02 MTDiscord btw, your inventory notification system looked awesome... 18:02 MTDiscord but anyway, continuing this is not going to go well... 18:02 kilbith lebruhgamer[m]: I've always contributed for people who live in the civilized world, I don't see why the third world should necessarily be able to have fun with us, we're not a charity 18:02 MTDiscord oh fuck 18:02 MTDiscord seriosuly 18:03 MTDiscord he's probably never considered that poorer countries are kept down by wealthy countries trying to profit off their wealth by pushing regime change etc. 18:03 MTDiscord not a good look 18:04 lebruhgamer[m] yes, we all always knew kilbith to be THE person who hates the poor and that "only rich people should have good stuff" 18:04 lebruhgamer[m] which is entirely opposite of the values of open source project where we accepts everyone, rich and poor alike 18:05 kilbith an average worker in the US can play Minetest in good settings 18:05 MTDiscord if you really need to bring others down to feel good about yourself, you have some stuff you need to work through 18:05 MTDiscord a good developer can cater to many systems 😉 18:06 lebruhgamer[m] also ironic that kilbith is using US as example when even c55 is not from US to begin with 18:06 MTDiscord an average us worker can afford minecraft for all their family and several pc's 18:06 kilbith neither do I 18:06 MTDiscord who do you think plays minetest other than FLOSS advocates? 18:06 MTDiscord and there ain't many floss advocates 18:06 MTDiscord (mainly the developers) 18:07 MTDiscord or are we just making stuff for ourselves, for kudos, and pats on the back? 18:07 MTDiscord people who want free minecraft 18:07 MTDiscord people who want free minecraft download minecraft for free 18:08 lebruhgamer[m] ah yes ... AAARRRR.. playing in "demo" mode that tricked some flag to be full game 18:08 lebruhgamer[m] 🏴‍☠️ 18:08 MTDiscord it seems kilbith is writing code for the people he was bashing earlier (the floss community). it's a bit weird 18:08 lebruhgamer[m] more like kilbith is blind that the people he was bashing were also part of the floss community itself 18:09 MTDiscord i cannot help but be amused by the tech elitism and an argument with a guy who has celeron in the name. rage against the machine 18:10 MTDiscord didn't erlehmann make the minetest logo 18:11 MTDiscord yep, he did 18:11 MTDiscord it's a pretty sexy logo 18:12 kilbith I really hope that one day celeron55 will tell us that this guy committed suicide, but my lawyer advised me not to say that 18:13 MTDiscord what 18:13 kilbith if only I could swap Jude's life to some other 18:13 PrairieWind uhh 18:13 PrairieWind yeesh 18:13 rubenwardy bye 18:13 PrairieWind dude loves to escalate stuff it seems 18:13 MTDiscord oh thank you ruben, finally he's banned 18:14 MTDiscord too far, fuck 18:14 lebruhgamer[m] banning off irc wouldn't really help .. he might just put up like rant on the forum next, and then probably on his social media (if he had one, idk if he do) 18:14 definitelya Who hurt him? 18:14 MTDiscord Himself 18:14 definitelya true 18:15 MTDiscord thank you ruben, banning him is a win for the whole community 18:15 lebruhgamer[m] monitor the forum for potential post from him 18:15 celeron55 the question is, wait for the post on forum and github before banning on there, or just ban first 18:16 rubenwardy pretty sure that's the response he wanted 18:16 MTDiscord he intended to burn bridges by the looks of things, he doesn't want to come back 18:17 MTDiscord i don't think many/any will be interested in what he has to say anyway 18:20 MTDiscord Is it on purpose IRRLICHTMT_BUILD_DIR is not listed among the general and lib specific options in the readme, only in the section above? 18:21 sfan5 I didn't even know that option existed 18:32 MTDiscord AncientMariner: he's deleted the Camera API PR, so seems so, yes 18:36 PrairieWind oof, is the tips pr gone too? 18:36 MTDiscord (note that doesn't mean the work's lost, just that some else has to pick it up) 18:37 PrairieWind I only have the tips code 18:37 PrairieWind maybe I can pick it up after I get a bit better at c++ 19:00 independent56 I'm glad this "kiblif" guy is gone reading the chat logs 19:00 independent56 They seem to be more controversial then me, and that's quite something 19:01 muurkha yeah, I think celeron55 is from Finland, which was technically a third-world country (though I guess that changes this week as it joins NATO) 19:01 rubenwardy err no it's not 19:02 sofar technically? that's rich coming from someone with the nickname "muurkha" 19:02 rubenwardy ok apparently there's a cold war definition which was different 19:03 muurkha yeah, I mean, that's the only actual definition 19:04 muurkha the rest is just vague associations 19:04 independent56 Switzerland has the best trains of any third world country lol 19:04 muurkha heh 19:04 muurkha yes 19:04 muurkha unless we count China? I'm not sure if they were third world or second world 19:04 independent56 How come both Linus Torvalds and C55 came from Finaland? They should meet up sometime 19:04 sofar Torvalds lives in Oregon, USA 19:04 independent56 muurkha, In the 2000s it was mostly second world 19:05 muurkha independent56: in the 2000s arguably the second world didn't exist 19:05 independent56 hmm 19:05 rubenwardy > The use of the term “Third World” initially arose during the Cold War and was used to define countries that did not align themselves with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) or the Warsaw Pact. In other words, the term was used to classify countries that did not pick a faction during the Cold War. Countries that aligned with NATO were considered part of the “First World,” while countries that aligned with the Warsaw Pact were part of 19:05 rubenwardy the “Second World.” 19:05 celeron55 btw, as kilbith is going to delete his branches on github, i did fetch a copy of his repo. if anyone needs it just ask 19:06 independent56 Kiblitt seems to be 2020-2021 me on LF 19:06 independent56 I'm glad i grew out of that phase 19:06 muurkha LF? 19:06 independent56 Linuxforks 19:06 muurkha ah, not familiar 19:06 muurkha anyway so kilbith's rant against third-world people targets the actual founders of Minetest, even if kilbith is unaware of this 19:07 independent56 It's the server i used to love. Now i dismiss it as a pointless distraction (which is healthier then being the pinnacle of all my hate back in 2021) 19:07 muurkha yeah, being driven by hate is bad for you. I'm glad you got better 19:08 independent56 yes 19:09 independent56 Now i am driven by competition, passion, or the intent to annoy people 19:09 independent56 My decision to learn a few Arabic phrases was mostly to see how angry that Qatari guy inclass would get 19:09 independent56 And the only reason i even try to write mods is to compete with those developers on contentdb 19:09 independent56 I'm suprised they make so many mods!! 19:10 independent56 I am trying to teach myselfhow to twist my mind to turn these basic drives into productive things 19:11 muurkha I've often found that thinking that someone's opinion is stupid and wrong spurs me into learning about something 19:11 muurkha so I can put together a convincing argument for why it's wrong 19:11 independent56 haha good idea 19:11 muurkha most of the time the result is that I find that it was my opinion that was wrong in the first place 19:11 muurkha at least partly 19:12 muurkha this works better on forums than on chat because chat doesn't pause long enough for me to learn things, and also I can't delete my half-written comment 19:15 independent56 i'm glad i'm a teenager as my brain can manipulate itself whilst its still growing. "kilbif" will drive themselves to death with their attitude 19:19 muurkha if they're the only casualty, that would be better than the most likely outcome, that they kill several other people in the process 19:27 independent56 hmm 19:27 independent56 I don't understand why they hate the people who probably brought them the hardware needed to connect to IRC 19:33 muurkha hate feeds on hate 19:35 independent56 That explains it 19:35 independent56 They're french so get a lot of unjust hate from the brits 19:52 Elon_Satoshi howdy 19:52 lebruhgamer[m] uh oh.. ig that makes sense for them to use India and Malaysia as example, those are both ex-British colonies 19:53 lebruhgamer[m] wait.. ik someone from UK 19:53 lebruhgamer[m] ruben is brits right? 19:53 lebruhgamer[m] "They're french so get a lot of..." <- I hope he doesn't get death threat from kilbith because of this 19:53 rubenwardy unfortunately 19:55 rubenwardy oops 20:03 independent56 Just to clarify: I am British 20:04 independent56 I don't really care for the death threat; they'd surrender to me in a fight 20:16 MTDiscord there are some brits that dislike the french, and some french that dislike the brits 20:16 MTDiscord most do not 20:17 MTDiscord i'm british, and i prefer Europeans to many of our folk... 20:17 MTDiscord nationalism is pointless though 20:17 MTDiscord excuses treated fellow humans as less than 20:36 MTDiscord many Brits are terrible just as many non-Brits are terrible 🤷 20:57 MTDiscord summary - people suck 20:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Add mesh-holding blocks to shadow drawlist. (#13203)" 13b01f85d https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b01f85d573b5366db9ab16afad4f4e191e46bea2 (152023-04-03T20:57:05Z) 20:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Take mesh-bounding-sphere into account in updateDrawListShadow 137048fc2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7048fc25dd963490552214e15d5e9a4c612d6b18 (152023-04-03T20:57:05Z) 22:32 Jon[m] " nationalism..." <- Stop having braincells