Time Nick Message 01:07 MisterE123 Is there a reason that setting param2 on nodes in bulk would be significantly slower than setting content in bulk? 01:11 Desour as in minetest.set_node_bulk? 01:11 MisterE123 no, as in regular VM node manipulation 01:12 MisterE123 setting individual param2's in a list and then setting the list to the vm 01:13 MisterE123 It could be I just have bad code 01:14 Desour idk of any reason, but idk much about voxelmanips 01:54 MTDiscord Param2 is of dynamic type, probably needs to check if light updating 01:55 Desour param2 can't change light propergation properties. param0 can 02:20 MTDiscord param1... 03:03 Guest54 muurkha i guess “kinda salty” means i do not have diabeetus but should drink more. thanks for the survival tip! 03:04 Guest54 if i ever get lost in the wilderness i'll know what to expect 03:38 Guest54 AncientMariner look, it seems that a) bonemeal can be used on fully grown melon stems to create a particle effect without being used up b) the alignment on bambus is wrong: https://mister-muffin.de/p/ueIJ.png 03:38 Guest54 i was just fishing on the nether roof, coming across this 03:39 Guest54 (nether roof canal is really nice, boat goes brrrr) 03:55 Guest54 rubenwardy i noticed that if i have a mod that depends on a mod that is available in the base game but also in a modpack the modpack is enabled, which is … unexpected, but also leads to bugs unless i manually disable the modpack. 03:55 Guest54 rubenwardy can i, as author of the mod in question change my dependencies to say “if the user has installed this mod already, do not enable a modpack” or is the automatic dependency activation just broken? 03:57 Guest54 in anyway, i think it is a bit weird to enable a modpack if the dependency is already fulfilled by the base game 03:57 Guest54 (it also crashes, i think) 03:59 Guest54 interestingly this does not seem to be a situation in which it is a problem to have two mods with the same name (even identical) as there are good reasons to … well, make modpacks, and have the thing standalone. 11:08 rubenwardy !tell Guest54 Minetest won't enable a third-party mod if the dependency is in the base game 11:08 MinetestBot rubenwardy: yeah, yeah 11:24 MTDiscord probably not the highest priority, because it ain't meta breaking, but you can raise a bug, and then it isn't forgotten 11:25 MTDiscord but i'm afk, so cannot raise now 11:25 MTDiscord by later, i will have forgotten 🙂 11:28 rubenwardy Reply contexts don't send to IRC 13:27 MTDiscord Ah, my mistake, it was to guest54 in regards to the bug raised. 14:05 MinetestBot Guest54: Mar-25 11:08 UTC Minetest won't enable a third-party mod if the dependency is in the base game 14:08 Guest54 rubenwardy re: “Minetest won't enable a third-party mod if the dependency is in the base game” – well, i tried https://content.minetest.net/packages/erlehmann/mcl_lever_status_indicator/ with mineclone2 while having mesecons installed. did mcl2 do anything to cause it? it used to work in the past without enabling mesecons modpack. 14:09 Guest54 rubenwardy mcl_lever_status_indicator depends on mesecons_walllever, which is both provided by mesecons and mineclone2 (with a reskin, but it's basically the same thing). 14:11 Guest54 AncientMariner, btw, i guess the mesecons_walllever case shows that if you rename the texture of a mod that exists outside mineclone2 you should rename the mod inside mineclone2, otherwise it may randomly not work if the mod outside mineclone2 does not rename its textures (and it probably will not). 14:13 Guest54 rubenwardy to me it just looks as if the automatic dependency activation algorithm does not check the base game before going around activating dependencies 14:13 Guest54 maybe it is different though 14:21 Guest54 rubenwardy another question, is there any way to tie dependencies to specific versions of other mods as a player? i guess cdb has no policies to require mods to not arbitrarily break compatibility and my proposals on how to not break mods by being smarter about API design and name changes have been steadily rejected for over 2 years now. 14:21 rubenwardy Guest54: ok, I can reproduce the mesecons thing, time to open an issue 14:21 rubenwardy Guest54: no, that introduces SAT issues which would make the dependency resolver a huge pain 14:22 rubenwardy plus you get issues when different mods depend on different versions 14:22 rubenwardy in some package managers, they install the same package multiple times - this works when it's a library with no global side effects, but won't work with MT mods 14:22 Guest54 rubenwardy, well, here is an example: the “mineclone2 furniture mod” references textures from mineclone2 and has been working well for a year now. it works in current mineclone2, but due to renaming of textures, at least 6 furnitures have dummy textures in the new game. renaming textures also breaks texture packs, but AncientMariner already 14:22 Guest54 knows that and does not seem to care too much (see chat from two days ago). 14:23 rubenwardy maybe there's a way for the mod to detect the current mcl2 version and use the right texture 14:24 Guest54 i guess the robust version is to steal the texture from the node you are copying (that works until they rename nodes again, lol) 14:24 Guest54 i kinda did a think like that for carved pumpkin, just duplicate pumpkin node to start with 14:26 Guest54 rubenwardy what exactly would be the issue in treating mod name + mod version as the dependency algorithm key instead of just mod name? possibly having multiple mods activated at the same time as a result i guess? 14:26 rubenwardy plus you get issues when different mods depend on different versions 14:26 rubenwardy in some package managers, they install the same package multiple times - this works when it's a library with no global side effects, but won't work with MT mods 14:27 Guest54 true, but in the case of base games it could prevent the “mineclone2 changes something without putting in the work to make it work for the existing mods“ case, unless i am not seeing it. i guess that is not general enough. 14:28 Guest54 by the way, is there a possibility a mod external from a game could be loaded instead of a mod in a base game? i have not managed to do so, but it would make quickfixes for some things possible. 14:29 Guest54 rubenwardy btw, i can not open the issue for the base game dependency thingy right now (still wrong computer, or i'd be logged in as erle), is it urgent? 14:30 Guest54 also, i'll just quickly look if i can patch it 14:38 Guest54 uh, i can't seem to figure it out right now. 14:39 rubenwardy weird, can't reproduce using a bare min example 14:40 Guest54 so what is your minimal example? 14:40 rubenwardy mymod depending on farming 14:40 rubenwardy modpack / farming 14:40 rubenwardy minetest game 14:41 Guest54 does alphabetic ordering play into this at all? 14:41 rubenwardy perhaps the issue is that it's using minetest game as the base game instead of Mcl2 14:42 Guest54 how is base game determined? 14:42 rubenwardy menu_last_game 14:42 Guest54 when i am in the mcl2 tab, shouldn't that be mcl2 then? 14:47 Guest54 rubenwardy mod auto-enabling order seems to be weirdly interleaved between base game and downloaded mods. could it depend on recursion depth? 14:48 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13350 14:48 rubenwardy you don't need to ping me for every message 14:49 Guest54 oh sorry 14:50 Guest54 thanks for creating the issue. do you know where the unit tests are for pkgmgr? 14:50 rubenwardy Haha 14:51 rubenwardy Pkgmgr was written before lua unit tests were added 14:51 Guest54 yeah, but it was modified after 14:51 Guest54 i have worked on dependency resolution (e.g. redo build system) and without tests you are guaranteed to get it subtly wrong 14:51 Guest54 i am guilty of refucktoring recursive dependency resolution a lot of times 14:51 rubenwardy I've been meaning to rewrite it at some point to allow testing 14:52 Guest54 i guess the message here is “the auto-activation thing was never tested” 14:52 Guest54 i mean beyond normal use 14:52 rubenwardy See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12295 14:52 Guest54 thx 14:52 rubenwardy It was manually tested 14:53 rubenwardy Following that plan 14:54 Guest54 i see 14:54 Guest54 there's a typo (mod / mob) btw 14:54 Guest54 btw, is there some shortcut to disable an entire modpack? 14:55 Guest54 maybe i am a dumbo 14:55 rubenwardy Yes. There's a button when you select the modpack 14:55 rubenwardy May need to click twice 14:55 Guest54 oops, it is there 14:55 Guest54 i am a dumbo 14:56 Guest54 thx 14:56 Guest54 i kept double clicking on the modpack name and it would not disable, probably due to auto-activation 14:57 Guest54 btw, do you know of any guide how to design forwards-compatible lua packages? 14:58 Guest54 so far i am doing the following: 1. if a function gains some more arguments, keep it backwards compatible to the old version (e.g. defaults chosen match the older version). 2 if i am unsure about number and ordering of arguments, the sole argument is a table (easy to do the defaults there). 3. if i change the meaning of a function, i rename it. 14:59 Guest54 that way it will not silently fail 15:01 Guest54 hmm, have you ever thought about having a test setup where every mod in cdb is installed (on a VM i guess) just to see if it leads to dependency resolution problems or crashes or error messages or so? 15:01 Guest54 i guess it is infeasible for anyone having not entirely too much time and money 15:03 rubenwardy I've thought about it but never done it 15:04 appguru https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/baf99f826c6e35519f68b666c27af6953f295159/builtin/mainmenu/pkgmgr.lua#L430-L441 15:05 Guest54 another question: is there a possibility of texture packs setting graphical settings? given that texture packs <16px don't work well with the connected glass (by design, i might add, the borders of the connected glass are 1/16px) and there are at least 5 of them on cdb and one more i know that is not on cdb, it seems kinda necessary. 15:07 Guest54 i mean the problem always kinda existed for smaller textures in that they require disabling smoothing of textures or everything is blurred, but blurry textures were not the default and connected glass is going to be as it seems 15:11 Guest54 OH LOL 15:12 Guest54 i just found out that the frame of the framed glass looks super-weird for any glass base texture with a border thinner than 1/16 of the texture 15:12 Guest54 let's see if some *larger* texture packs are also broken now 15:14 Desour Guest54: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/texture_packs.txt for texture pack docs 15:14 Guest54 Desour there does not seem to be any provision for this 15:16 Guest54 oh yeah, i was right: hand painted pack also breaks, because it has bespoke borders 15:39 Guest54 kimapr the issue for connected panes is this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11546 18:43 MTDiscord Guest54? That is an oddly cool name 19:01 mazes_83 the "moveresult" passed to on_step is parent moveresult when object is attached ? 19:15 mazes_83 ok, I receive a message stating: ""Collision info missing, this is caused by an out-of-date/buggy mod or game" 19:15 mazes_83 from builtin/game/item_entity.lua: L204 19:17 Desour_ did you attach a dropped item? 19:17 mazes_83 yes 19:18 mazes_83 I think the assert should be done after checking and returning when attached 19:19 mazes_83 as luaentitysao.cpp shown me there will be no collision info when attached 19:22 mazes_83 In fact "chakram" mod attaches dropped items -> assert fails -> server restart 19:24 mazes_83 a temporary fix for the mod itself will be not attaching items, so it does not "crash" (it may crash later if dropped item is removed) 19:26 mazes_83 or is it intended none will attach __builtin ? 19:27 Desour_ if moveresult does not exist if attached, that should be documented 19:28 Desour_ considering that the builtin item does things if it's in a node and similar, I'd say it's not good to attach it 19:34 mazes_83 everything that's done may be skipped if physical_state is false. "it's not good" seems to be valid in such a case 19:37 mrkubax10 how do I make brass from basic materials? 19:41 mazes_83 one line with 2 copper 19:41 mazes_83 another with one silver 19:42 mazes_83 ingots for both 19:43 mrkubax10 weird that crafting guide doesn't show recipe for it 20:15 mazes_83 Desour: I ended up using '(en/dis)able_physics' for builtin_items, it works fine, finally chakram works back as before 5.3 20:17 Desour_ mazes_83: but builtin calls these itself. for your workaround you should probably also set force_out 20:19 mazes_83 yes ofc, it's workaround, I still prefer this than my server restarting when using a chakram 20:22 mazes_83 no if I set force_out, it may re-enable physics in an unintended way 20:23 Desour_ set to false I mean 20:24 mazes_83 no need, it's nil at init, and mod will attach those builtins as soon as spawned 20:26 mazes_83 but who know, it may happen