Time Nick Message 00:00 rubenwardy installing using Content > Browse online content is recommended 00:00 rubenwardy but the answer is minetest/games/nodecore, where minetest is the user data dir 00:00 rubenwardy commonly ~/.minetest/games/nodecore 04:04 Menchers unlimited viewing range is no longer unlimited 04:35 DeepT another benefit of rolling release distros, no horribly "cutesy" release names 04:35 DeepT i hate that crap so much, idk and i dont wanna know wtf "jammy jellyfish" is 04:35 DeepT version numbers are rational, stupid names are not 04:35 DeepT thank you for attending my ted talk 05:56 lissobone Greetings. 06:15 DeepT apparently manually editing /etc/apt/sources.list to add the newest ubuntu version repos is ~ to do-release-upgrade 06:18 lissobone I have to come out of the closet. 06:26 MTDiscord DeepT: I doubt that 07:44 lissobone Hello. 08:35 DeepT DeepT: I doubt that 08:35 DeepT tell that to my working ubuntu upgrade 08:36 DeepT for various reasons of china's fault it was the only way 08:41 MTDiscord DeepT: It seems to be how Debian folks usually upgrade their OS's, but the do-release-upgrade tool does more. 08:41 MTDiscord Not sure if "more" necessarily is "better" though. It definitely breaks stuff often. 08:42 DeepT from a glance at the source code it doesnt do much that id want/need 08:42 DeepT ...like most of ubuntu 08:42 DeepT or debian for that matter :P 08:54 MTDiscord Honestly I think like 2/3 times I did do-release-upgrade I regretted it lol 08:54 MTDiscord But I think the last time it half-worked? 09:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove the 'loops' occlusion culler (#13169) 13b8aaad4 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b8aaad4f1ef2e4b22cb7d47de9cb54068ccbbe18 (152023-01-23T09:58:29Z) 16:53 MTDiscord nah debian people just have "testing" as the release and run apt upgrade 16:54 MTDiscord i guess they would do that in the rare cases they run stable though 16:54 MTDiscord but you can simply put stable as well 16:55 MTDiscord and it should work 16:55 MTDiscord in theory no editing of sources.list is ever required hehe 17:03 kabou just put "sid" in your sources.list 17:04 kabou i think it's been more than 20 years ago since they last broke libc 17:04 kabou that was fun 17:16 DeepT i started with an old broken as hell banana pi w2 image 17:16 DeepT getting it into a working, updated system was a fun expereince 17:18 MTDiscord Looking for advice how to fix this the right way. For minetest web, I need a way to launch the client, create a new world, and start the game, in one shot. The command-line --gameid --go doesn't work unless there's an existing world. So I added a bit of code to directly create the world in this situation: 17:18 MTDiscord https://github.com/paradust7/minetest/commit/62e885147dc07dc09cb45d0f6c8940be616f1715?diff=split#diff-ea7e5163c3659f6bf4bce96c4d955d28c454191010572cce541f8f3fab11887a 17:20 MTDiscord This works in most cases, but since it completely bypasses the builtin menu, there's a problem with the configuration option allowed_mapgens, which is only ever read by the main menu code. 17:28 MTDiscord For example, nonsensical_skyblock, which requires singlenode, ends up using the wrong mapgen 19:48 FavoritoHJS How I can be optimist about the future when even our saviors are influenced by the same people who are killing us? I fear efforts are best spent not on saving mankind now, but accepting we're completely fucked and ensuring that after the end times we can return to "not fucked" in decades and not centuries. 19:49 MTDiscord who is killing you? you seem very much alive to me 19:50 FavoritoHJS nothing right now, but climate change, authoritarianism, et al will in the future 19:50 MTDiscord the end is already a decade late - wasn't it supposed to be in 2012 or something? 19:50 MTDiscord again Favorito, you're massively exaggerating the current state of affairs here 19:50 MTDiscord we're not at all "completely fucked" 19:51 FavoritoHJS i would... if we would do shit 19:51 FavoritoHJS we won't 19:51 FavoritoHJS there's no money here, and there won't be until it won't matter anymore 19:51 MTDiscord No. 19:52 FavoritoHJS welcome to the denial phase of grief 19:53 MTDiscord hah 19:53 muurkha well, each of us will die 19:54 MTDiscord Your line of thought is not new; we've been there already: People calling for an apocalypse hoping that it might serve as a catharsis for mankind 19:54 muurkha not clear that the death rate under authoritarianism is higher 19:54 MTDiscord This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy 19:54 MTDiscord (Favorito's attitude that is) 19:55 MTDiscord FavoritoHJS: If you tried to base your statements on facts, you'd quickly see how it all fades away in uncertainity 19:56 muurkha maybe in a marginal sense: conceivably we could abolish death if we work hard enough on it, which is unlikely to happen if we regard the effort as futile 19:56 muurkha but almost everyone born has already died 19:56 FavoritoHJS ok, how many of the tecnologies, policies, peoples that will save us are sponsored by self-serving plutocrats? 19:57 muurkha and the effort to abolish death seems like a bit of a long shot even if it's prioritized 19:57 muurkha climate change would be a pretty bad problem if we kept burning fossil fuels and not doing geoengineering, but that's not the direction we'll go 19:58 Krock me burning coal in the furnace actually causes CO2 emissions 19:58 muurkha the self-serving plutocrats are investing in massive wind farms, solar power plants, and perhaps most importantly, advances in PV panel manufacturing 19:58 MTDiscord muurkha: Even considering the worst case of "humans act as dumb as possible", it's a problem that would ultimately solve itself due to the negative feedback loop ;) 19:59 muurkha yeah, I think that's what FavoritoHJS is worried about ;) 19:59 muurkha also it might end up solving itself the way it did on Venus, where negative feedback stabilized the climate at a much higher temperature 19:59 MTDiscord Worst case might indeed be a drastic decline of the population, but anyone who speaks of "the end" or "extinction" is just laughable; such scenarios are far from plausible, even considering the absolute worst case 20:00 FavoritoHJS thus why I said "I fear efforts are best spent not on saving mankind now, but accepting we're completely fucked and ensuring that after the end times we can return to "not fucked" in decades and not centuries." 20:00 muurkha There are lots of possible human extinction scenarios, but climate change probably isn't one of them. 20:00 FavoritoHJS but it will kill modern civilization dead in the water 20:01 MTDiscord What a bold claim 20:01 FavoritoHJS global shipping chains, anyone? 20:01 FavoritoHJS do you remember how badly they broke down under covid? 20:01 FavoritoHJS Imagine that, but even worse 20:01 MTDiscord Why? I suppose rising sea levels should aid shipping ;) 20:02 muurkha i do remember. i'm imagining it. it didn't produce even a single regional famine 20:02 FavoritoHJS But it will drown all the ports and make most living areas uninhabitable 20:02 MTDiscord what 20:02 muurkha Yes, in like 100 years 20:02 MTDiscord why would it "drown the ports" 20:02 muurkha Because ports are mostly at sea level, and a few meters of sea level rise are expected 20:02 MTDiscord also if living areas become uninhabitable I suppose people will have to find new living areas, gradually 20:03 FavoritoHJS if they can 20:03 FavoritoHJS spoiler: most of the poor won't, and guess who produces our stuff 20:03 MTDiscord Not only the poor people produce stuff 20:04 sfan5 paradust: it sounds like this issue would already exist with minetestserver and --world 20:04 muurkha Poor people can walk inland too 20:04 muurkha Mostly rich people produce our stuff 20:04 FavoritoHJS and then live where? plus, it could be too hot as well 20:04 muurkha Sea level rise is 3.7 mm a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise 20:04 sfan5 allowed_mapgens support should either be added to the C++ side, or better some glue code added that allows the C++ to call the "create a world with the right stuff" parts of builtin/mainmenu 20:06 muurkha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise#Projections_for_the_21st_century says the projected range of sea level rise by 02100 is 300–1200 mm, or 2400 mm if Antarctica melts 20:06 FavoritoHJS Plus, do you think the chaos that will be produced from a good chunk of the worlds population will bode well for the continued upkeep of production? 20:09 muurkha It's certainly going to be a tumultuous century 20:09 FavoritoHJS They'll revolt due to a lack of resources needed to live, and will revolt harder when they aren't provided -- or worse, diverted elsewhere. 20:09 FavoritoHJS tumultuous will be an understatement 20:09 FavoritoHJS i fear silicon-age collapse will be a better one 20:09 muurkha I might even say fascinating 20:10 muurkha I'm pretty confident in predicting that pretty much everyone born before 01980 will die this century 20:10 muurkha I mean, of those who are still alive! 20:10 muurkha Even without any catastrophes. 20:12 muurkha There will surely be a lot of revolts, as there were in the 20th century, and the 19th century, and the 18th century. 20:13 muurkha Probably some big genocides, too. 20:14 muurkha Hopefully not, of course, but probably so. The 20th century had the biggest genocides and wars the world had ever seen. So did the 19th century (though the word "genocide" hadn't been invented yet) until they were eclipsed by those of the 20th. 20:16 muurkha Climate change is a huge problem, but it's not technically unsolvable. It's "just" a question of coordination. 20:19 FavoritoHJS coordination that doesn't exist, and won't exist until it's too late. 20:27 muurkha Too late for you, but not for civilization. 20:28 muurkha Someone born today would be 76 years old at the turn of the century; they have a better than even chance of being dead by then. 20:28 muurkha (Even, again, without climate change.) 21:05 DeepT Climate change is a huge problem, but it's not technically unsolvable. It's "just" a question of coordination. 21:06 DeepT you cannot fix climate change, the climate is always changing 21:08 DeepT https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620_original_image/public/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png 21:11 DeepT that being said, im not pro pollution. I dont wanna eat microplastics, i dont wanna breathe a bunch of nasty air 21:11 DeepT i just don't see the point in being alarmed by something out of our control 21:23 DeepT interestingly enough, stopping international trade would reduce global emissions by 20-30% according to WTO's figures 21:25 DeepT id be curious to see also how on-shoring trade would effect other secondary emmissions problems, cause currently we manufacture in countries with worse pollution issues, the % of emissons that could be reduced could be even higher with ending the global economy 21:42 muurkha 'worse pollution issues' generally means conventional pollution, things like perchloroethylene in the river and unburned hydrocarbons in the air, not CO₂ 21:54 DeepT true, id hazard a guess that china/india etc have less stringent emissions requirements than say, the usa or canada 21:54 DeepT i have no data on that though 21:54 muurkha in general it's the opposite, but there's a lot of variation 21:55 muurkha the biggest difference I think, having lived in only one of those four countries, is that in USA and Canada what you can do is determined by official regulations 21:56 FavoritoHJS does a law exist if no-one enforces it? 22:06 muurkha the problem isn't that no one enforces laws in India or China 22:08 DeepT ya which is why we shouldnt manufacture there :P 22:09 DeepT on shore we can oversee env regulation compliance, child labor, etc 22:10 muurkha I doubt you can 22:10 DeepT i mean, it wont be perfect because nothing is, but not having the problem be across the world helps 22:10 DeepT either way, im far too off topic i think :P 22:11 definitelya__ I post-ironically support a Greta New World Order™. 22:11 DeepT lol 22:11 definitelya__ Every culture and nation can do as they please, but a worldwide authority forbids excessive pollution and nuclear warfare. 22:12 definitelya__ Easy right? :( 22:12 DeepT nuclear warfare takes care of excess population efficently though, and as humans drive climate change 22:12 DeepT nukes are a good thing 22:12 DeepT since we are on post irony now 22:12 definitelya__ uhm, let's agree to disagree... 22:13 definitelya__ Oh right 22:14 DeepT uhm, let's agree to disagree... 22:15 DeepT i don't agree to that whatsoever :P 22:15 definitelya__ Ye 22:17 DeepT i entirely give up on putting wiregaurd on this banana pi 22:17 DeepT stupid thing uses a custom kernel, no kernel headers available 22:18 DeepT im not installing docker to grab an ubuntu 16 build env to build a new kernel with the needed modules, ill install it to my old rasp pi instead 22:18 * muurkha writes a sea level rise mod 23:28 paradust sfan5: Are there any hooks that allow a game to customize world creation entirely? Would I need to worry about that