Time Nick Message 00:36 muurkha yeah, nix and nginx are both pretty great 00:55 LandarVargan @DeepThgt: See the serverside settings max_block_send_distance and block_send_optimize_distance IIRC 01:14 DeepThgt try https://github.com/minetest-mods/xdecor/blob/master/src/chess.lua 14:09 lissobone Appears that the repository only contains an unusable perl script. 14:09 lissobone Yes, I know about the xdecor one. 14:09 lissobone I use xdecor-libre, by the way. 14:10 MTDiscord same code:P 14:11 lissobone So, I know that there is such a feature in xdecor, but I want to know what happened to the old chess mod. 14:11 lissobone The one rubenwardy himself helped developing. 14:14 MTDiscord zip download works https://github.com/bas080/chess/zipball/master 14:16 lissobone I downloaded this. 14:16 MTDiscord sorry, it contains only the perl script:( 14:16 lissobone There's a perl script. I couldn't make it work in any way, and it doesn't even seem to relate to minetest. 14:18 rubenwardy they probably deleted the repo and then later on made a repo with the same name 14:18 MTDiscord this looks like a chess mod https://github.com/bas080/chess-mod 14:19 lissobone The Ancient Chess Mod (Holy version). 14:19 lissobone Thank you. 14:20 lissobone It seems that it's not on contentdb yet. 14:20 MTDiscord np 14:20 lissobone Shall I release it, since it's under a free license? 14:20 lissobone Sharing is an act of love, you know... 14:21 MTDiscord I assume it'll need some fixes to work on modern minetest anyways so yeah, release it onto contentdb as a fork 14:22 lissobone I'm currently testing it. 14:22 MTDiscord its licensed under WTFPL https://cubicspot.blogspot.com/2017/04/wtfpl-is-harmful-to-software-developers.html 14:22 MTDiscord yeah preferrably you should relicense the fork to MIT or the like 14:22 MTDiscord but keeping a note that upstream was licensed under WTFPL ofc 14:24 rubenwardy looks correct 14:24 rubenwardy I edited the forum topic 14:25 lissobone Maybe relicense under GPLv3 to keep it freer? WTFPL states that one can do whatever you want with the software. 14:25 MTDiscord I believe this is exaggerated. Yes, the lack of a disclaimer is problematic, but in practice won't be this problematic. 14:25 lissobone And also to keep it more coherent in terms of licensing. 14:26 rubenwardy haha, I suggest keeping to the spirit of the original license - so MIT 14:26 rubenwardy CC0 with warranty disclaimer is closer but not sure if that's been tested legally 14:27 MTDiscord yeah I'd rather want to relicense a WTFPL mod to MIT, GPLv3 is the viral copyleft kind of "free" 14:28 lissobone So, what's wrong with it being viral? 14:28 lissobone You don't want to spread freedom? 14:29 DeepThgt GPL <3 14:29 lissobone It's still 100% free software. 14:32 lissobone MIT is for people who want to [[Look, this line of code is Open Source! I am so trendy and open! Can't wait until my rib cage becomes Open Source for my liver surgery!]]. Pushover license. No offense, it's still 100% ethical, open and free (as in freedom) while under MIT, but you're indirectly promoting nonfree software by merely allowing to include the work in proprietary products. 14:33 DeepThgt i couldnt agree more lissobone 14:34 DeepThgt also "pushover license" is the nicest way ive ever seen that described 14:35 lissobone The mod needs some reworking. 14:35 lissobone There are missing textures all over the board! 14:41 MTDiscord DeepThgt: usually I hear them being described as "cuck licenses" :P 14:41 MTDiscord anyways I'm not necessarily against the GPL, but I keep a personal policy that if the code for a thing I've made is smaller than the GPLv3 license text (35kb) I'm just being a dick not to license it under something more permissive 14:41 DeepThgt exactly 14:42 MTDiscord The thing about being a "pushover" is that if somebody pushes you over, you fall over. If you push against me, and a copy of me falls over, but the original stays standing, then that doesn't really make me a pushover. 14:42 lissobone That makes copies pushed over. 14:42 lissobone What's better: an army of standing clones or an army of pushed over clones with a single one standing straight? 14:42 MTDiscord If you break it, congrats, you get to keep all the pieces. 14:43 MTDiscord I would rather my licenses not start in an already-pushed-over state. 14:43 DeepThgt personally i just wouldnt want some guy to immediately monitize my work 14:43 lissobone GPLv3 allows you to sell software, it's not the issue here. 14:44 MTDiscord yeah even GPL licenses allow you to make commercial use of it 14:44 DeepThgt and contribute nothing back 14:44 lissobone That's why GPL is great. It offers enough freedom while imposing enough restrictions. 14:44 DeepThgt handt finished my thought 14:44 lissobone That's more of an ethical issue. 14:44 lissobone You are free to, for example, sell someone's program without the developer knowing. 14:45 MTDiscord The GPL license's restrictions are okay, if you buy into the moral panic that it attempts to solve. Even given that, though, I could definitely do without the sermon and stick just to the licensing itself. 14:45 MTDiscord Well, you have to believe in both the moral panic, AND that it can be solved, or at least mitigated, by licensing, I suppose. 14:45 DeepThgt Apple put a fancy ui on bsd 14:45 DeepThgt and contribued nothing back 14:46 DeepThgt its not a theoretical issue, its a real life issue 14:46 lissobone BSD is a pushover license, that's why. 14:46 MTDiscord Most people contribute nothing back, regardless of which license they use. If you have an opportunity to contribute back, and don't, then that's your loss too, since you're now stuck maintaining an ever-diverging fork and you've failed to get upstream to take responsibility for some of the features you now have to maintain. 14:47 lissobone It's permissive, and Apple used that opportunity to make their nonfree product quicker. 14:48 MTDiscord Yeah, it's so terrible that BSD doesn't exist anymore because its licensing allowed Apple to push it over. 14:49 DeepThgt what would have been better is if apple was forced to contribute via better licensing of BSD 14:49 DeepThgt instead, BSD continues to suffer 14:50 DeepThgt BSD is dying https://www.csoonline.com/article/3250653/is-the-bsd-os-dying-some-security-researchers-think-so.html 14:50 MTDiscord How do you even determine if something is "dying?" 14:52 DeepThgt 6 months with security problems unadressed is pretty much "dying" 14:53 DeepThgt market share is decreasing due to lack of development 14:53 DeepThgt development that apple would have had to help with by contributing if it wasnt a pushoever license 14:56 MTDiscord how would that force apple to do anything? 14:56 MTDiscord BSD "marketshare" is really only a thing for people who believe in a free software "market." 14:57 DeepThgt marketshare is directly relevant to number of developers working on the code 14:58 DeepThgt popularity is important in FOSS 14:58 DeepThgt btw, as an aside, if someone needs textures for something i offer myself. GPL only tho 14:58 MTDiscord Popularity is important in GNU-philosophy FOSS, where you assume that every user has a roughly equal potential to become a contributor. 14:59 DeepThgt when security problems go unaddressed because nobody cares about your project, popularity is incredibly important 14:59 MTDiscord It's basically the difference between k-strategy and R-strategy. 15:00 DeepThgt and its quite clear from the state of BSD vs Linux which strategy works for FOSS development 15:01 DeepThgt BSD is fairly useless in comparison to Linux, and that has a lot to do with licensing 15:01 MTDiscord I don't really mind so much that people are using GPL; that's fine for you, and it has really nothing to do with me. But when people encourage naive developers, who don't know anything about licensing, to go over to the GPL side, that bothers me. It's bad enough to have people locking away their stuff with proprietary crap or -NC licenses on one side, but the last thing we need is stuff getting locked away with GPL on the other side. 15:02 MTDiscord I will grant that BSD is much worse at doing Linux things than Linux is, but that's sort of obvious already. 15:03 DeepThgt I would never blindly encourage a developer to use GPL, I would explain why they should use GPL 15:03 DeepThgt the difference is rational discussion of the benefits and drawbacks of GPL vs other licensing 15:04 MTDiscord Lock-in is the enemy of freedom. Proprietary lock-in, SaaS lock-in, GPL lock-in. I get that your club is really popular and fun, but I don't see why I should sign away my freedom to get in. 15:06 DeepThgt you are free to do as you wish of course, I am not trying to convince you to not use a license that allows companies to take your free work and make proprietary derivatives based off it 15:07 DeepThgt if thats the variety of freedom you wish, good luck. I'd personally prefer my work to continue to stay free, and have contributers 15:09 DeepThgt the simple fact that companies spend $ to push overly permissive licensing is enough for me to want to not use them 15:09 lissobone There's a reason GPL was developed, and that's to protect our freedom. 15:09 lissobone Why it was developed*. 15:11 MTDiscord All this "pushover" talk is basically focusing on displays of strength, rather than actual strength. It's the same kind of thinking that makes people rattle sabres at each other in order to look tough, while the guys who don't waste their time doing that crap can actually make things happen, largely because everyone is ignoring them, too busy focused on their contrived game. 15:11 DeepThgt actual strength, like the state of BSD? 15:11 DeepThgt lol 15:11 MTDiscord The GPL was developed as an anti-walled-garden. I just don't want to be part of any walled garden, anti- or not. 15:12 MTDiscord Again, this "state of BSD" is a GNU-ism. 15:12 MTDiscord It's "dying" when measured by GNU metrics. 15:12 lissobone Guess who just rattled his sabre and went fixing chess for new minetest versions. 15:13 DeepThgt by any measurable metric, BSD is dying 15:13 MTDiscord That's a pretty bold claim. 15:14 MTDiscord If you don't use BSD, then yeah, I can see how it looks like it's dying to you. 15:16 DeepThgt "dying to me" is also dying to everyone else. Its not used, and its not developed 15:16 MTDiscord Haha, wow, that's an even bolder claim. 15:17 MTDiscord er, sorry, 3 bolder claims. 15:18 MTDiscord I mean, normally, if somebody made a bold claim, I'd ask for evidence, but I guess it's kind of moot when I already have the counterexample that disproves it. 15:19 DeepThgt what metrics do you have that show BSD is being used and developed more now than the past 15:19 MTDiscord I don't have those. I never said that I agreed with your premise, i.e. that those kind of metrics are relevant to decide the fate of a project. 15:20 MTDiscord This is not a popularity contest. Popularity is a feature. Not every project is going to have every feature. 15:21 DeepThgt like security patches, drivers, working software? 15:21 DeepThgt lol 15:21 DeepThgt ok, ive got work to do. choose whatever license makes you happy 15:21 MTDiscord "Dying to me" is dying to everyone else <-- it's not dying to me, so disproven by counterexample. It's not used <-- I use it. It's not developed <-- then it seems weird that I have to upgrade every 6 months. 15:22 smk I have freeBSD 12.1 server, its pretty solid with almost no issues in past 1 yr 15:22 MTDiscord Linux has some cool features. Every now and then, one of those features makes a difference for me, hence why I run a significant amount of Linux. However, for all those development resources, they're all spread out working on stuff that mostly doesn't matter to me, so I have to tolerate a pretty significant amount of bloat, and the features I care about evolve slowly. 15:23 smk They still releases timely patches and all 15:24 lissobone By your logic, DeepThgt, Debian is dead, since it updates only once a year. 15:24 MTDiscord OpenBSD, in contrast, is much more focused. They don't have a lot of features, but they aren't missing a lot either, for lack of them; the stuff that I actually use is largely there. It's also much easier to understand the system because it's not doing a lot that I'm not asking it to do. They don't have a lot of development resources, but they are all going into things that really make a difference in my usage. 15:24 lissobone (Practically, it's usually more often, since there are some security updates every now and then.) 15:24 DeepThgt lissobone, does debian leave security issues untouched for 6mo at a time? 15:24 MTDiscord Wait, Debian updates once a year? I thought it was like 2+ years 😆 15:25 lissobone 2 years? Doesn't matter. 15:25 lissobone It's still alive. 15:25 lissobone 85 years? 15:25 lissobone Still alive. 15:26 smk he he DeepThgt just join the mailing lists of old projects that you think are dead, you will realise the activity and discussions 15:26 lissobone It's secure, though. 15:26 MTDiscord If a project can go dormant for 85 years and still be considered alive, then I don't think anyone can call any project "dead", except maybe Babbage's original stuff. 15:27 lissobone Alright, the chess look alright now. 15:27 MTDiscord The fact that I only have to do a risky dist upgrade to Debian once every couple of years is actually a feature for me. I kinda hate "upgrade days" and having fewer of them is a lot less stressful. 15:28 lissobone Why not make an operating system that will NEVER update? 15:28 lissobone Just release it as it is and abandon it. 15:28 lissobone (Make sure that it's stable and secure first.) 15:28 MTDiscord I run a mix of OpenBSD and Debian on iron, and a mix of Alpine and Debian in containers. They all work fine for me, and each has different strengths and weaknesses. 15:47 independent56 Is there a command line form of installing mods like the in-game mod-manager? 15:48 MTDiscord built into the engine? no, but I've heard there's many scripts that implement something like that 15:48 independent56 Like `minetest mipt find train` and `minetest mipt upgrade` 15:48 independent56 (minetest-apt) 15:48 independent56 Can i have the name of the best and cheapest scriptset? 15:55 independent56 I guess i'll have to use a python script and ContentDB grabber 15:55 independent56 Or take from Minetest's implementation. 15:58 independent56 Does contentDB at least have an API for downloading mods? 15:58 independent56 I'm sure there should be one given Minetest's in-game downloader 15:58 MTDiscord contentdb does have an API 15:59 MTDiscord https://content.minetest.net/help/api/ 16:01 independent56 Great! 16:02 MTDiscord just downloading a single package is as easily as crafting an URL with package name and release number, but if you want it to be fully functional you'd need to resolve dependencies and such too 16:02 independent56 Dammit, yeah, i'll look into it 16:04 independent56 This is great1 16:04 MTDiscord I think it's great2 16:05 MTDiscord great3 16:05 MTDiscord great4 16:05 MTDiscord (Well dammit I wanted to skip 3 and go powers of 2) 16:06 independent56 !!!! 16:06 ROllerozxa !!!! 16:07 DeepThgt you are all wrong, its clearly gre8 16:07 mrkubax10 gr8 16:08 lissobone The chess mod from there lacks any rules. 16:08 lissobone It's just a chess board mod at the moment. 16:08 independent56 Anarchy chess! 16:09 lissobone Well, maybe it's more realistic this way. 16:09 lissobone In real life, I have the freedom to place a piece anywhere on my board, right? 16:09 independent56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFk_3vUwtj4 16:09 independent56 I would love to do this in minetest 16:09 lissobone I can also tie my opponent up and beat him up with a sword (in minetest). 16:09 lissobone Pretty realistic. 16:09 lissobone I'll just leave it as it is. 16:10 lissobone The oldest ANARCHY CHESS server in MINETEST... 16:12 lissobone This will also require me to remove any chess piece ownerships. 16:12 lissobone Rules only make sense if you're playing it on a GUI of sorts like in chess.lua from xdecor. 16:13 independent56 I want to push the pieces and to have a high-quality blockchain enterprise-level NFT physics engine manouver the pieces where they can go 16:13 independent56 Just like the cat video 16:14 lissobone I want rocket-propelled chess. 16:14 rubenwardy independent56: Minetest's use of the cdb API is documented here: https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/blob/master/docs/minetest_client.md 16:14 rubenwardy Here's a tool: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=26446 16:14 independent56 Yes, i saw the link at the top of the contentDB page 16:15 independent56 Just as i was designing a python program to do the work for me 17:34 lissobone Question. 17:35 lissobone Was minecraft. notation supported in 0.4.16/17? 17:35 lissobone OOPS 17:35 lissobone I mean minetest. 17:35 lissobone minetest. 17:35 lissobone Or was it just minetest.env:? 17:40 rubenwardy minetest.env was deprecated early in 0.4 17:40 rubenwardy so it was long deprecated by 0.4.16 17:41 rubenwardy so yes, minetest.name rather than minetest.env:name 17:49 lissobone Alright. 17:49 lissobone That mod is way too ancient. 17:50 lissobone Gangnam style era mod. 19:27 independent56 So, my LAN server shows "listening on "0.0.0.0:30000"" and when i try to connect to its IP address, it times out 19:28 independent56 I'm using "--server --gameid 1 " and it just refuses to let me in 19:28 independent56 What do i need to change? 19:29 muurkha independent56: can you ping the external IP address with ping from where you're trying to connect to it from? can you connect to the external IP from the same machine? 19:29 independent56 I've managed to connect to the nginx host 19:29 independent56 Running on that sever, index.html and all 19:30 independent56 The server works across LAN but the Minetest software does not seem to wish to send. 19:32 independent56 https://pastebin.com/Aft3GYmi 19:32 independent56 From my SSH connection 19:36 FavoritoHJS 0.0.0.0 is a null connection, i'm guessing that means you connect to whatever your ip adress is, port 30000 19:38 muurkha 0.0.0.0 is INADDR_ANY 19:38 FavoritoHJS oh, so it's an ip mask 19:38 muurkha no 19:38 muurkha when you bind a socket to 0.0.0.0, you can connect to it on any of the machine's IP addresses 19:39 FavoritoHJS ...can you tell i can't networking? 19:39 muurkha it's a special case; there isn't an option to, for example, listen on any IP address that starts with 192 19:39 FavoritoHJS well, i imaginen you can... but you'll need os-specific apis 19:41 independent56 So... what should i bang on in my linux machine 19:41 independent56 Like what might be getting in the way and technologies so i know what to manipulate 19:42 FavoritoHJS if you can't connect to your server even after inputting the correct ip, chances are your router is blocking that port. Look for port fowarding. 19:42 independent56 It's from an internal IP address, and my router's info is all in Spanish with what seems to be a machine-translated English evrsion 19:42 independent56 I'll have a look 19:43 muurkha I forget if that's TCP port 30000 too or just UDP 19:43 y5nw I think only UDP is used 19:43 FavoritoHJS internal ip address... so one that's with 192.168.what.ever? 19:44 independent56 Yes 19:44 MTDiscord minetest only uses UDP 19:44 independent56 i'd say it's 192.168.1.139, but then i'm scared it mightreveal my location :p 19:44 FavoritoHJS i recall sometimes that doesn't work for some reason, probably some sort of protection 19:44 independent56 I'm bad at networking jargon 19:45 FavoritoHJS don't worry, those ip's are only local to within your network. Not that you can do that much with only an ip... 19:45 MTDiscord are you trying to access the server from the outside internet? are you sure that you're not behind CGNAT? 19:46 independent56 Thus the ":p". No. I am not accessing from outside the internet 19:47 independent56 I'm even on the same extender 19:47 independent56 I honestly think that it's some problem from the 30000 port in the server, as 80 works fine and serves web pages well on the EXACT same IP address 19:48 latex What's your favorite minetest server guys? 19:49 MTDiscord my own:) 19:49 independent56 Slightly off-topic, but why is it always reccomended to make seperate users for seperate services? 19:49 independent56 I just use the main non-admin user for everything 19:51 muurkha if you post to Fecebutt and run your Minetest server as the same non-admin user, and the Minetest server has a RCE vulnerability, whoever exploits it can then take control of your Fecebutt account 19:51 muurkha similarly Gmail, Venmo, Bitcoin, etc. 19:51 FavoritoHJS I think it's if one service is compromized, it being a separate user would help prevent attackers from attacking other things 19:51 independent56 Oh, makes sense now 19:52 independent56 Yes but rm -r ../gmail 19:57 independent56 I had a talk with google.... turns out i needed "sudo ufw allow x" 19:57 independent56 Dammit, sorry for bothering your cave 20:01 muurkha oh, I don't know about ufw. what distro is this? 20:03 y5nw I think UFW is quite common on some firewall tutorials. I use it on a Debian VPS. 20:04 muurkha useful to know that it can be what interferes with running a minetest server 20:08 independent56 ubuntu server, https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/opening-a-port-on-linux 20:08 independent56 First search result 20:15 muurkha aha, thanks 20:32 DeepThgt all you should need is sudo ufw allow 3000 iirc 20:33 DeepThgt "sudo ufw allow 3000" * 20:37 MTDiscord *sudo ufw allow 30000/udp 20:37 DeepThgt ty 20:38 DeepThgt id tell you a udp joke.... 20:38 DeepThgt but i'm not sure if you would get it 20:38 MTDiscord the joke's been lost in delivery, I assume 🙃 20:57 Noisytoot independent56> i'd say it's 192.168.1.139, but then i'm scared it mightreveal my location :p 20:57 Noisytoot You should be more concerned that we can /whois you 20:58 independent56 AHHH! 20:58 independent56 Too bad that IP address is the "PUBLIC" one. 20:58 independent56 I haven't revealed the private one, so that's still safe 21:26 FavoritoHJS strange, from a client mod `setmetatable` seems to exist, but `getmetatable` doesn't... 21:34 sfan5 the sandbox does that, it's intentional 21:37 FavoritoHJS but why? 21:39 Krock probably because you could abuse it in some way for accessing hidden variables or making the Lua environment insecure 21:40 Krock although I don't know why only the getter is affected 21:40 independent56 How would i set the walls of the selected worldedit region to a specified block? Do i need worldedit-addons? 21:41 independent56 I remember a //wall command 21:42 Krock that's probably an extension or something 21:43 independent56 Oh yeah thanks