Time Nick Message 01:36 MTDiscord Modnames need to be unique, but as far as I know, modpack names don't have to be, per se... 02:42 MTDiscord Name space conflict? 04:30 fluxionary warr1024: mod names need to be *compatible* w/ older mods w/ the same name, at least if they want to be listed in the content db 04:30 fluxionary er, mods w/ the same name as other mods 04:32 fluxionary Warr1024, compatible is a slightly fluid concept, but at they should implement the same public API, and not crash if swapped out for the original mod by that name 04:32 MTDiscord you would think that a cdb moderator || that doesnt do much of anything in the queue admittedly || would be aware of such things 04:33 fluxionary Jonathon: who is that cdb moderator? also, if someone has volunteered for something, but doesn't understand the protocols, that's not a problem. we just need to point them in the right direction. 04:34 MTDiscord im saying your pointing out policy of cdb, to one who (sometimes) enforces it and helped make it 04:34 MTDiscord https://content.minetest.net/users/ 04:36 MTDiscord (if it wasnt obvious, the moderator is warr1014) 04:36 fluxionary Jonathon: if you say so, warr1024 is a name i've seen before, but i wasn't aware they had responsibilities 04:36 MTDiscord *warr1024 04:36 MTDiscord well, cant fault you there since they dont actually do much in the queue 04:38 fluxionary huh, now i'm really curious how they ended up so far up that ladder 04:40 fluxionary "Warr1024 has a game placed at #3." "Only 16 users have written more helpful reviews." "Has received 92071 downloads across all packages." 04:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault 04:40 MTDiscord while i will point out that warr doesnt do much of anything in the way of approving things in the queue, they have been useful in policy debates/insights/cdb features/well formating responses 04:40 fluxionary that's pretty epic actually, i'm surprised i don't know more about them 04:42 fluxionary also, ShadoBot: shh 04:46 MTDiscord i wonder if you can escape shadow bot responses 04:46 MTDiscord like #3 04:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault 04:46 fluxionary while we're on the topic, i wouldn't mind being added to the cdb review committee, or the github minetest-mods review team 04:47 MTDiscord lol, good luck getting into minetest-mods 04:48 fluxionary i have no idea what's involved in getting to that point, but i feel like minetest-mods needs more reviewers 04:48 MTDiscord see https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues/118 place is basically a graveyard outside of the few mods smalljoker and buckaroo have rights to/work on 04:49 MTDiscord which is part of the reason mt-mods exists, and has certain repos 04:50 fluxionary well, it's a dead-end, but it's also not really a "graveyard", since there's only one grave... 04:50 fluxionary i'll poke at the status quo tomorrow, i'm too close to sleep rn to trust my judgmeent 04:52 fluxionary mt-mods exists, and i'm a part of mt-mods, but mt-mods also is a great example of why people *should not* get editorial control over various mods 04:53 MTDiscord Hmm, so ShadowBot thinks that I have a game placed at Furnace segfault on CDB? Well, good thing that game doesn't have any "furnace" item in it then. 04:54 MTDiscord someone needs to make a mod for that? ๐Ÿค” 04:54 MTDiscord typical nodecore style it would need to be some sort of joke 04:54 fluxionary i'm throwing myself into hot water again w/ a "hot take", but there is apparently a relatively small intersection between "people who are motivated to maintain mods" and "people who have good judgment about how to maintain mods". 04:55 MTDiscord Good judgement takes motivation and time. At least they've got half of the ingredients, and the other one is a matter of ... well, time. 04:57 fluxionary and this is minetest. it's all volunteer work, and none of my criticism is meant to tell people they can't try to improve things 04:58 MTDiscord On the contrary, criticism is by its nature usually meant to tell people they NEED to improve certain things :-D 05:00 fluxionary Warr1024, i dunno. i want to suggest that they improve things, but i also want to be able to point to a concrete strategy that they can use. i do have an essay i've been working on, but while it's in a public repo, it's not quite at the point where i want to publish it 05:01 fluxionary i also think that a huge thing that we need is a unit/integration testing framework for mods. i've done a bit of work on that, and am focusing on it again 05:01 MTDiscord you are aware of sx mineunit stuff, right? 05:01 fluxionary jonathon: yes i am 05:01 MTDiscord ๐Ÿ‘ 05:02 fluxionary jonathon: i noticed that shortly after i started to work on my own solution, but decided that it wasn't actually a solution to the problem when SX said that they were testing for how they *wanted* minetest to work, instead of how it actually worked 05:04 MTDiscord yeah, unit testing gets into the weeds on some other subjects, like breaking apis from content, seperating them as different mods or not, testing in game automate(matters for ci minutes) vs just api code tests, etc 05:07 fluxionary Jonaton: unit tests, conceptually, shouldn't care about external APIs. i suppose what i want to create is a framework for *integration* tests. 05:08 fluxionary testing whether the mod works properly on its own is one step, but most of the bugs that minetest server runners have to deal w/, are related to how mods interact w/ each other 05:09 fluxionary for this purpose, i want to create a pure-lua implementation of the things that minetest provides to the lua API 05:10 MTDiscord valid point, thought you where more referring to per mod specifically rather than together originally, my mistake 05:12 fluxionary Jonathon: i'm thinking more about a mod and its dependencies, than a mod and how it integrates w/ every other possible combination of mods 05:14 MTDiscord seems you could use the cdb api for tracing deps and sourcing the code 05:14 fluxionary but mostly, i want to create a framework where you can say, "test this mod. other mods live in these specific folders. the builtin lua exists at this path." 05:15 fluxionary the framework will provide the things that the lua API provides. maybe it'll allow you to specify a specific mintetest version (though that's not super important to me) 05:17 MTDiscord besides dep issues, anything else you would want to check with such a frame work? 05:17 fluxionary Jonathon: possibly... though i'd rather just point to someone's mods & worldmods folders, and their world.mt file, and other standard locations like that 05:17 fluxionary Jonathon: some mods get complicated. i want to test that changes to them don't break anything 05:18 MTDiscord like your moreblocks pr? ๐Ÿ˜› 05:18 fluxionary yes, like my moreblocks pr :) 05:18 fluxionary or my smartshop fork 05:18 fluxionary i'm also working on some mods for totally redoing eating, damage, armor, mobs, and other things 05:19 wsor good luck, many people have tried those things in different ways, but not many have seen adoption 05:19 fluxionary stuff is complicated, i want a way to say "it's meant to work this way", for some particlar way 05:20 wsor arguably nodeio supported in elepower was an odd success story, but elepower isnt that active anymore 05:20 fluxionary wsor: yup, i do understand that i'm taking on more than i can really do on my own 05:21 fluxionary i never really played around w/ elepower, though i was curious at one point. i'm not too interested in machine/automation mods at the moment 05:22 wsor anyways, its still my current opinion, that such concepts would be better suited implemented into a game and used by its deps, rather than trying to be retrofitted onto the current ecosystem 05:23 wsor perhaps if said game seems success, it could be adopted to other games, etc 08:50 hmmmm hehehe 08:50 hmmmm hi norkle 08:50 hmmmm nice website u got thur 09:00 BuckarooBanzai !tell fluxionary you might be interested in this: https://github.com/buckaroobanzay/mtt but i think you are aiming for a new project, right? ;) 09:00 MinetestBot BuckarooBanzai: yeah, sure, whatever 09:36 BuckarooBanzai ^ for the sake of cooperation/community: i'm open to suggestions/rewrites and/or repo-move to a public org if there is interest in that 14:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04TurkeyMcMac -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid out-of-bounds memory access in attached node placement predictiโ€ฆ 131798ad0 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/1798ad0ec4deed12e7a3f20e8278171e304a087d (152022-12-10T14:00:27Z) 14:10 MinetestBot 02[git] 04TurkeyMcMac -> 03minetest/minetest: Prevent air acceleration with 0 jump speed (#13036) 13c18c082 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c18c08205995395e3db0a1a05167cd6f018947ee (152022-12-10T14:08:50Z) 14:21 eldritchcookie[m can i call registration function on a on_mods_loaded callback if not how could i make a mod always the last one to load? 14:23 sfan5 that's not easy doable 14:23 sfan5 for what reason do you need your mod to be the last? 14:29 vampirefrog it's a last laugh mod 14:45 eldritchcookie[m i want to create a game that isn't based on minetest game but would like to have many mods to work on it given that i will supply many things which have equivalents i considered to have a dummy default to supply the required dependencies and then modify the global state that those mods add to make their definitions use my mods's definitions, example my mod would be last and then would look at the global table and store its state 14:45 eldritchcookie[m internally then i unregister everything that depends on defualt and then using the stored state i translate it to make the mods be usable on my game 14:47 MinetestBot 02[git] 04mnh48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Malay (Jawi)) 131dde03d https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/1dde03dfec963155dfb6588f809c13874df17a0e (152022-12-10T14:30:43Z) 14:48 douwe[m] hey, can passwords be reset from the command line over ssh? 14:49 eldritchcookie[m yes if you know the command and it exists 14:49 douwe[m] I fail at both 14:49 douwe[m] * at both: but if you tell me, I'll succeed 14:58 eldritchcookie[m if you call minetestserver with --terminal long option you can execute any ingame command 14:58 eldritchcookie[m use /setpassword 14:59 douwe[m] $ minetestserver --terminal /setpassword 14:59 douwe[m] is that what you mean? 15:00 sfan5 if you have started the server with --terminal (and not as a service or such) you will get an interface where you can execute commands as the configured admin user 15:08 douwe[m] ok, thnx! Very helpful ๐Ÿ˜ƒ 17:01 MinetestBot fluxionary: Dec-10 09:00 UTC you might be interested in this: https://github.com/buckaroobanzay/mtt but i think you are aiming for a new project, right? ;) 18:19 FavoritoHJS https://youtu.be/2M94nrANJmQ?t=55 oh god oh FUCK microjang is pinkwashing THE MARKETPLACE 18:19 FavoritoHJS this is fucking personal now 18:20 MTDiscord Minetesters don't really care about the Mojank Marketplace, whatever that is. 18:23 MTDiscord plus they're doing what they think will get them the most money 18:23 MTDiscord yk exactly what you pay them to do haha 18:32 MTDiscord It actually rather makes sense that they're doing this, since (1) content the allow is effectively content they endorse since it's their own highly curated store, and (2) their target audience is a lot younger than a lot of audiences in minetest. 18:37 FavoritoHJS you say all content is endorsed... does that mean suing Microjank for copyright infirngment is an option? 18:41 MTDiscord What irc client for win is proffered nowadays? I haven't used irc in 20 years so I'm a bit rusty 18:44 muurkha what does "pinkwashing the marketplace" mean? 18:47 definitelya Covering the ugly with sunshine and rainbows? IDK xD 18:48 MTDiscord it's civil law, suing is always an option 18:48 MTDiscord sounds like it probably wont work out well though 18:50 MTDiscord cant people like make their own market place if they dont like the official one 18:51 definitelya I mean it is the most played game of all time, some people will surely go the legal route. 18:52 definitelya Anything to hurt the status quo... 18:53 MTDiscord @MikeNight personally I use good old hexchat on desktop, it's crossplatform and supports windows 18:54 MTDiscord Alright, I was looking at web clients but idk. I like customizability, and web apps are easiest to modify 18:57 MTDiscord well there is thelounge which is a selfhostable IRC web client that doubles as a bouncer 19:37 Yad Is there no round function? Only floor and ceiling? 19:39 rubenwardy only floor, thank Lua 19:42 muurkha Lua likes minimality 19:42 MTDiscord rubenwardy: floor and ceil 19:43 muurkha yup, math.ceil 19:44 muurkha you could quibble with this in that it handles negatives and positives asymmetrically: function round(x) return math.floor(x + 0.5) end 19:45 MTDiscord muurkha: and don't forget the float precision issues x) 19:47 muurkha how do those come up in this context? 19:47 Yad luatic: Float precision issues appears to be why I have to use rounding. 19:47 Yad luatic: As I move entities they don't line up with the node matrix. 19:48 MTDiscord muurkha: IIRC there is one example of a border number which is just below x.5 but gets rounded up to x+1 19:48 MTDiscord https://stackoverflow.com/a/58411671/7185318 19:48 Yad luatic: for example if I call set_pos ten times adding 0.1 meters each time to the y axis position, I get a position something like 0.000 000 23 more than it should be. 19:49 muurkha luatic: interesting, I didn't realize! 19:49 Yad luatic: You're replying to my remarks about set_pos()? 19:49 muurkha Yad: yes, floats do that, but usually the error is a lot smaller than that 19:50 MTDiscord no 19:50 Yad muurkha: Hmm, it seems fairly small, certainly less than one pixel on the screen. 19:50 MTDiscord floats have 6 digits of precision approx. 19:50 MTDiscord lua uses doubles though 19:50 MTDiscord but Minetest uses floats for positions again 19:50 Yad luatic: Thanks for clarifying, I rely heavily on names to understand who is writing to whom, especially since I have HexChat configured to notify me only when my name is mentioned. 19:51 muurkha Yad: like in that particular case the error is -1.1102230246252e-16 19:51 Yad muurkha: 0.000 000 1 is the tenth of a micrometer 19:51 MTDiscord anyways, I'd just truncate that off 19:52 MTDiscord you can round but why the hassle 19:52 Yad luatic: if I truncate then I could end up with 1.999 999 meters 19:52 Yad luatic: which is not a valid position to place a node, no? 19:52 MTDiscord fair 19:52 MTDiscord it is 19:52 MTDiscord just place the node at the pos x) 19:53 MTDiscord minetest will do the rounding for you 19:53 Yad oh, will minetest.set_node() accept demcial positions? 19:53 Yad oooo 19:53 MTDiscord yes 19:53 MTDiscord XY-problem solved 19:53 MTDiscord Command sent from Discord by LMD: 19:53 MTDiscord !next 19:53 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 19:53 Yad luatic: I didn't realise that, thanks. 19:53 MTDiscord np :) 19:53 MTDiscord it'd be a lot less useful if it didn't 19:53 Yad hahahah 19:54 Yad I'm getting so used to nil-table exceptions I expected an error without an exact integer :P 19:56 Yad luatic: visual_scale is only for nodes...is there a way to do that with entities without having to make a separate mesh .obj file? 19:57 MTDiscord yes 19:58 MTDiscord I think it's called visual_size for them 19:58 MTDiscord and it is a vector in the object properties 19:58 MTDiscord refer to the Lua API 20:14 MisterE[m] New Blog Post: https://blog.minetest.net/2022/12/10/November/ 20:22 Yad luatic: Yes, thanks. 21:25 FavoritoHJS > but Minetest uses floats for positions again 21:25 FavoritoHJS this reminds me... there was an old bug in MC (still exists in bugrock) where if you walk across floating point presicion boundries in just the right way, the players collision box would be adjusted in just the _wrong_ way until you fall through the infinitesimally small space between blocks. Does that also work in Minetest? 21:25 FavoritoHJS And why is the world limit at 31k instead of 32k? 21:25 FavoritoHJS oops sorry for mention 21:34 MTDiscord Bad stuff happens around the 32k boundary, like if an object actually crosses over it. The boundary is backed off to 31k to make sure you can't even see/load past the 32k boundary. 21:35 FavoritoHJS why does that happen? I'm guessing some part of the engine is expecting coord locations to always fit in a short 21:35 FavoritoHJS (start screaming about 16.16 fixed point) 21:42 MTDiscord there are 2 boundaries 21:42 MTDiscord the server boundary and the client boundary (the former being a bit further out 21:42 MTDiscord 30007 in default settings and on the + borders i think 21:43 MTDiscord you can easily verify it by getting nodes (or entities) there using mod features 21:43 MTDiscord e.g. pistons 21:43 MTDiscord the mapblocks will just never be sent to the clients .. but if you move entities there you will see them 21:43 MTDiscord 31007 ofc 21:44 MTDiscord you can also place nodes if you noclip out and point at nodes at the edge (you won't see them but they're there - try it with rails hehe 21:55 FavoritoHJS interesting, so nothing is generated there but you can still place stuff and it gets preserved across reloads? 21:57 FavoritoHJS even physics works properly if you can turn some nodes into air 21:58 FavoritoHJS i wonder, I heard that ignore nodes cause buggyness, maybe the cause of the server not sending the chunk is because of all the ignore? 22:04 FavoritoHJS fascinating, permafrost snow piles are different every deleteblocks 22:04 FavoritoHJS even though the seed is the same 22:34 FavoritoHJS i've just realized... mesecons sticky blocks act like mc slimeblocks 22:34 FavoritoHJS flying machine? 22:38 FavoritoHJS whaaa 22:38 FavoritoHJS placing a sticky block behind a piston and activating the piston causes the block to dissapear 22:39 muurkha really? 22:39 FavoritoHJS yes 22:40 FavoritoHJS sticky blocks in general are buggy 22:43 MTDiscord seems like thats a false statement 22:43 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1051267833247584397/image.png 22:45 FavoritoHJS try placing a sticky block in front of the piston 22:46 FavoritoHJS it seems like it correctly checks for the sticky block for when to move nodes, but when actually moving the nodes it doesn't 22:46 FavoritoHJS i'm guessing the search starts at the piston instead of at the sticky block 22:50 MTDiscord even changing it from back to front still works fine 22:50 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1051269812736757770/image.png 22:52 FavoritoHJS sticky piston sticky 22:52 FavoritoHJS power piston, bye sticky 22:52 MTDiscord ignore only causes buggyness if there are buggy mods ^^ similar to unknown nodes or items. but yeah it gets preserved across reloads .. its written to the world db 22:53 MTDiscord still perfectly fine 22:54 MTDiscord mineclone used to have this feature: 22:54 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1051270689904152687/crashbutton.png 22:54 MTDiscord What, no bacon? 22:54 MTDiscord ah yes, crash the world when placed at the world border 22:55 MTDiscord when de-powering it to be precise yeah 22:55 FavoritoHJS fine, fine, fine... but kiwiirc doesn't host images for very long, so mirror it asap 22:56 MTDiscord there https://mister-muffin.de/p/_xis.png 22:57 FavoritoHJS kiwiirc is busted and isn't letting me upload stuff 22:57 MTDiscord mister-muffin is nice 22:57 FavoritoHJS update supression in a nutshell 22:57 MTDiscord you can easily upload via curl / http request 22:58 MTDiscord cat yourfile | curl -F 'arg=<-' https://mister-muffin.de/paste 22:59 Krock pretty much like https://0x0.st/ 22:59 MTDiscord yeah looks fairly similar 23:00 Krock do these files ever expire? 23:00 MTDiscord they haven't yet afaik 23:00 MTDiscord been using it for a year or so 23:01 rubenwardy I use my own domain and a py script to scp 23:01 rubenwardy https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/rubenimageupload 23:01 rubenwardy the script is associated as a program for .png/.jpg 23:01 rubenwardy so from the screenshot tool, I can open with "rubenimageupload" 23:01 MTDiscord i'm to old to host web services haha 23:02 FavoritoHJS anyways, here's the thing https://mister-muffin.de/p/Hwhi.png 23:02 MTDiscord but yeah that prob the best way to do it 23:02 MTDiscord Wait, shit, there's an age limit? 23:02 Krock that's not even a webservice 23:02 Krock plain file copy over scp 23:02 rubenwardy nginx and ssh 23:03 Krock well yeah. nginx to provide it to others 23:03 MTDiscord well to provide http access to the file you'd need to operate some kind of web service i suppose 23:03 rubenwardy I bought rwdy.uk for it. Unfortunately, all the 3 letter ones that made sense were taken :( 23:03 rubenwardy If I bought rdy.co.uk I could have rdy.uk 23:04 rubenwardy probably expensive though 23:04 FavoritoHJS you'd need some kind of web server to service requests, and that requires a domain and keeping a server on 24/7 23:04 Krock freedns > bought domains 23:04 MTDiscord yeah and like updating it and stuff 23:04 MTDiscord ive done this before ik how it ends lol 23:04 Krock FavoritoHJS: many VPS will work just fine for web hosting. 23:05 rubenwardy I already have a server on 24/7 23:05 rubenwardy I wouldn't recommend it for all users, but it's ideal for me 23:06 rubenwardy I barely use it anymore though, with discord 23:06 MTDiscord yeah if you have a server anyways that makes sense .. i mean i used to do it like that when i did hehe 23:06 Krock set up a lichess instance or something 23:06 Krock or invidio.us