Time Nick Message 05:37 sofar If anyone is wondering, I'm aware my server is down atm. Will look at it tomorrow. 07:23 lissobone Guys, I've got 8 genious ideas. 07:28 lissobone I've finally remembered what is the 8th one. 07:29 lissobone I'll start with the first one. 07:29 lissobone 1. Make a thruster in minetest (currently in process of doing so). 07:33 lissobone A thruster is the part of a spacecraft that produces thrust by ejecting matter at a fast pace. 07:33 lissobone I know how to implement it, but I need some help. 07:34 lissobone I want the thruster to require propellant in order to function. 07:35 lissobone Wait, I've got an idea. I'll take a look at how technic made their batteries. 07:35 lissobone The epic idea number 2: 07:36 lissobone Create artificial gravity in minetest. 07:36 lissobone I think that I will get kicked for spam if I continue any further. 11:09 Abdou-31 Hi folks! 11:09 MTDiscord nice, it's working! 11:31 MTDiscord hey, could I get a wiki account please? Preferably with username 'olive'. Forum post got no reply (and it says to ask on IRC) https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10473 11:32 MTDiscord I would very much like one too, see topic 11:35 Abdou-31 I've read that if someone has set an avatar on gravatar.com they don't need to add a profile picture on github, but it doesn't work for me 11:35 Abdou-31 I use the same email on both websites 11:37 pjalsDaniel[m] iirc you need to set a specific option for that to work 11:39 Abdou-31 on github or on gravatar? 11:44 Abdou-31 changed it manually 11:45 Abdou-31 searched on google how to link github with gravatar but got no good result 12:51 lissobone Just set the same avatar on github. 12:56 lissobone I've still got the same question. 12:56 lissobone Oh, hi, beanzilla, by the way. 12:56 lissobone What audio editor should I better use? I want to make an error sound for my new thruster mod. 12:57 lissobone When there's not enough propellant, it throws an error and refuses to propel the player. 12:57 rubenwardy GoodClover: done 12:57 lissobone Should I just stick with ffmpeg? 12:57 rubenwardy it's Olive as names need to begin with a capital 12:57 lissobone Minetest wiki account?? 12:58 lissobone Sounds prestige. 12:58 rubenwardy lissobone: I use audacity 12:58 lissobone Well, I was thinking of it. 12:58 lissobone I'll try it (once again, as I already used it when generating sh***post in 2018). 12:59 lissobone while*. 12:59 rubenwardy GoodClover: you should receive two emails, one for each of the wikis 12:59 lissobone Oh, by the way, I've got a question regarding minetest websites. 13:00 lissobone So, I've seen a modding guide (like yours, but 3 times smaller) on minetest.org. But there's also minetest.net, which appears to be the actual minetest website. 13:00 lissobone Well, it doesn't appear to be, it is the website. 13:00 lissobone And the main page of minetest.org... 13:00 lissobone It frightens me. 13:00 lissobone It says "final minetest". What is that? 13:00 rubenwardy minetest .org is a malicious domain, the person was banned for harassment, spam, and other things 13:01 lissobone Yeah, I've noticed the harassment. 13:01 rubenwardy the modding guide is an outdated version of my one 13:01 lissobone They called celeron55 a rather bad word, mocking his real name. 13:01 rubenwardy Bing banned rubenwardy.com a year ago, and it's only just been readded. So the .org version is a higher result on bing :( 13:03 MTDiscord ooo wiki account time :D 13:03 lissobone rubenwardy.org appears to redirect to your actual website from which I read your modding book. 13:03 rubenwardy minetest .org 13:03 rubenwardy I own rubenwardy.org 13:03 lissobone I know. 13:03 lissobone But minetest.org is the 13:03 lissobone That website. 13:04 lissobone I'll just stick with my personal favorite ffmpeg since I've always used it to make sounds for my (few) mods. 13:06 lissobone Why do they call minetest from the '.net' site 'trolltest'? 13:07 lissobone I really like how they proclaim that minetest is fading away nowadays because of conflicting goals. 13:07 MTDiscord don't get lost in that rabbit hole 13:08 lissobone My head aches. I'll just continue making the Thruster. 13:08 lissobone I always had a dream of traversing three-dimensional space without any air resistance and gravity. 13:09 lissobone I'll have to add special physics overrides for that to work. 13:09 rubenwardy lissobone: detachment from reality 13:10 lissobone I remember playing some 2d mobile game on my old phone in 2014 about building spacecrafts and then launching them, completing various missions. 13:10 lissobone But I can't find it anymore. 13:10 lissobone It was fun. 13:10 lissobone I even hacked it to get unlimited perks. 13:11 lissobone Wow, "Most peo­ple were anonymous, many were hos­tile to everybody, and some were mentally ill". 13:11 lissobone I didn't notice that. 13:12 lissobone This community is literally the nicest place on the entire internet. 13:12 lissobone Well, maybe I haven't seen something important yet... 13:12 rubenwardy the number one most toxic thing that has ever happened to this community is the person that made minetest .org 13:13 lissobone Is it, like, a troll? A giga-prank that has gone wrong? 13:15 lissobone One of the features they list: "Full integration of 3D Armor and the skins system". WOW! They managed to preinstall skinsdb (or simple skins (or literally anything else that provides skins)) and 3d_armor! Unbelieveable, I'm stunned! 13:17 rubenwardy yeah, final minetest is 0.4 + mods. They forked Minetest but didn't really have any C++ knowledge 13:17 lissobone ohohno my ribs 13:17 lissobone theyhurt 13:17 lissobone Well, I am fine now. 13:38 lissobone I have made the error sound. 13:38 lissobone (This probably was very unnecessary of me). 15:08 lissobone Guys. 15:09 lissobone I have joined some channel ran by oldcoder. 15:09 lissobone I am descending into the rabbit hole (with safety precautions, of course). 15:09 rubenwardy don't poke the bear 15:12 MTDiscord I don't know what "safety precautions" might mean, but I hope you have some idea of what you need to be prepared against in order to be sure that they're adequate for the task. 15:12 lissobone Safety precautions like: 15:12 lissobone A specil climbing rope. 15:12 lissobone Specil hooks. 15:12 lissobone Specil gas mask (just in case I get bombed with chlorine). 15:12 lissobone Specil hands. 15:12 lissobone Mechanical hands. 15:13 MTDiscord If you just had one of those bionic commando arms then you wouldn't need any of that stuff except for the gas mask maybe. 15:13 lissobone No, just mechanical arms. 15:13 MTDiscord Every arm is mechanical 😆 15:14 lissobone With joints, tendons and stuff. 15:14 lissobone Yeah, like that. 15:14 lissobone And partially metallic bones. 15:14 lissobone (All bones are partially metallic). 15:15 lissobone Are alkali earths considered metals? 15:15 lissobone The bear doesn't react to active poking. 15:16 lissobone I have seemingly stunned him with [DATA PLUNGED]. 15:16 lissobone Oh no. 15:16 lissobone He is doing an illegal move. 15:17 lissobone Time to utilize the specil safety precautions. 15:17 MTDiscord I think when people say "don't poke they bear" they mean "do not speak to, or look directly at the bear, or make any visible movements", not just "be polite" or something. 15:17 lissobone I left and now I feel bad for them. 15:17 lissobone But I won't return. 15:23 MTDiscord There's a lot of bad blood left over from that conflict, and it's best just not to touch any of it or get any on you. 15:26 MTDiscord And to be fair, any community, including this one, can have people who are rude or hostile, and new conflicts can happen if the right circumstances arise again. But at least any future bad blood is not a foregone conclusion, and if we make the right choices we probably have a lot of influence over whether it happens or not. 15:55 MTDiscord gah, why on Earth does the dev wiki not use the same translation system as the regular one? 15:57 MTDiscord /shrug why on earth does the regular and dev wiki need to be separate to begin with 15:57 MTDiscord or it may just lack it altogether 15:57 MTDiscord yeah, unifying them would be great 15:57 MTDiscord pretty sure the dev wiki does have translations, but they aren't well used 15:58 MTDiscord The regular wiki uses some MediaWiki plugin for the bar at the top, the dev one dosen't have that and so has a manual page 15:58 MTDiscord (which is presently broken) 16:01 rubenwardy the dev wiki doesn't have many pages any more 16:01 rubenwardy would be nice to unify them 16:02 MTDiscord The dev wiki sort of feels like a thing that shouldn't even exist, and all the information that's on it and isn't already in /doc in the repo should just be merged into there. 16:03 rubenwardy Meetings is useful 16:06 ROllerozxa organisational pages like the meetings page can be on the regular wiki but maybe behind an usergroup lock or something if regular users should be discouraged from editing them 16:06 ROllerozxa ...eh not that it matters considering wiki registrations aren't open to begin with 16:07 MTDiscord Well, "should either be merged into /doc OR moved to the regular wiki" then might be fair. 16:08 MTDiscord Maintaining 2 wikis isn't twice the work as maintaining 1, but it's gotta be at least SOME extra work. 16:12 lissobone Why not just place a message that would tell the user that this wiki is deprecated and soon will probably be merged into the regular wiki? 16:18 ROllerozxa well I guess there's more amount of work maintaining it for c55, which for us means one will be more broken than the other (code blocks and language selectors and whatnot...) 16:19 ROllerozxa the dev wiki also has some interesting general engine documentation which for a lack of better place would move to the regular wiki. putting it in doc/ would make it subject to PR review and those take some time... 16:20 ROllerozxa like, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12749 which apparently doesn't even have roadmap approval, whatever that means for *pieces of documentation* 16:23 MTDiscord Honestly we should just make an exception to the PR review requirements (i.e. make it just one core dev approval) when it's specifically documentation that already exists and people are already relying on anyway, merely being moved from one place to another. 16:25 Guest507 hi 16:25 muurkha hi 16:25 MTDiscord hi 16:26 Guest507 I wrote to the forum for the translation of the wiki page, it is being looked at, right? 16:26 Guest507 I was told to write to this irc channel 16:33 muurkha I wonder who would be looking at it 16:33 ROllerozxa it is being looked at by our highly trained mese powered robots 16:34 ROllerozxa Warr1024: such a PR review exception could extend to all documentation-only PRs really, only one coredev review required (alternatively a single different coredev, if the author is a coredev themselves) as to speed things up a bit with a drought of active coredevs 16:36 MTDiscord ...maybe. It smells a little slippery-slopey. I have to assume we have the standards for a reason, like the risk of somebody introducing incorrect documentation. In the case of just moving docs, I don't think there's a major difference in the expectation of correctness or reliability between the dev wiki and the repo docs, so if we do end up moving something inaccurate or outdated into the repo, it won't be making a bad situation 16:36 MTDiscord notably worse. 16:39 MTDiscord Really, the biggest problem might be the fact that core devs are expected to write PRs, but aren't given credit for reviewing PRs. The only core dev that I'm aware of MT having ever actually "fired" was somebody who was trying to focus most of their time on review and approval work, and rarely ever wrote new PRs. 16:40 MTDiscord The system rewards participants for creating PRs, while discouraging them from actually reviewing them by taking away time that could be spent writing PRs. If I wanted to create a massive pileup of unreviewed PRs, I'd be very hard pressed to come up with another system. 16:40 definitelya Solution: add high-scores for the most proficient reviewers. 16:40 definitelya kek 16:41 ROllerozxa coredevs getting fired would imply they are employed and getting paid 16:42 MTDiscord It's really hard to build objective metrics for reviewing effectiveness, since it depends a lot on the quality of the PRs themselves. So somebody could easily just review a bunch of already-good PRs and get a lot of credit for pushing through merges, while somebody who does a lot of work to shepherd a few originally-shoddy PRs to the point where they get merged wouldn't get much credit for that work. 16:44 muurkha a solution adopted by ZeroMQ was to approve every PR as fast as possible with no review 16:44 muurkha people would compete to approve PRs faster than other people 16:44 muurkha once it was merged into master, though, they had to fix it 16:45 muurkha they explicitly didn't try to keep bad code from getting ito master 16:45 muurkha *into 16:45 muurkha they just tried to fix it as fast as possible if it did 16:46 MTDiscord Hm, so code maintained like wiki pages? 16:47 muurkha pretty much 16:47 MTDiscord A few older git hosts allow creation of a branch that any user can edit 16:48 MTDiscord Avoiding the whole PR process, eventually changes are copied from there to master 16:48 ROllerozxa agile dev go wheee 16:48 ROllerozxa ...and then crashes into a concrete wall 16:49 ROllerozxa eh, or maybe not 16:49 MTDiscord tinycc uses that exclusively now as the original dev no longer works on it 16:53 lissobone The thruster works. 16:54 lissobone I just need to add sound effects and usage cost. 16:54 lissobone And maybe rework the texture. 16:54 lissobone It looks horrible. 16:54 lissobone It's like a portal gun, but also laser machine gun from terraria. 17:11 lissobone I have completely disabled any gravity and deceleration. 17:11 lissobone Now I just fly like in vacuum. 17:14 lissobone Oh no. 17:14 lissobone I actually feel nauseous. 17:15 lissobone I shouldn't associate myself with Sam that much. 17:16 lissobone I even had an idea of cosplaying him (actually possible). 17:20 MTDiscord I've actually changed merge policy a lot over time with NodeCore. Early on I flew a lot by the seat of my pants and added and removed stuff very easily. Now that the project is mature and has an audience actually relying on it, I have to put some care into my changes. I think that's just the natural creep of a project: the agility that it uses early on to gain success ends up causing, through that success, a loss of agility. 17:30 muurkha Warr1024: that can happen 19:34 MTDiscord Beta branch it 🙂 19:41 MTDiscord It would nice if there was a "staging" release of Minetest with less stringent PR merge requirement so that folks could easily try these PRs without having to merge themselves as is done with WINE. 19:42 MTDiscord Anyone could run one. I used to run one for my own personal use. I would just periodically pull from upstream master and re-cherry-pick some PRs that I liked on top of it. Had a script that didn't require all that much intervention. 19:50 MTDiscord Some semi-official status of a Staging release could encouage submitters to rebase as master progresses 19:52 MTDiscord too many PRs just wither from having to rebase over the long approval process 20:01 MTDiscord Semi-official meaning having a download link on the Minetest download page 20:02 MTDiscord Maybe a catchy name like Minetesting 20:18 MTDiscord Call it Minerelease, just to confuse people 20:19 MTDiscord Looks kinda like Mineral-ease, which would be a decent name for a mineral-oil-based laxative. 20:21 Pexin looks like 2 people pulling on something fighting over it. mine! release! 20:25 MTDiscord pulling & fighting over something? you mean a pull request? 20:32 MTDiscord Mesemess 20:35 MTDiscord I like to say Minetest is pronounced like Minet-est as if "she is a playful cat" 20:35 MTDiscord or being the most Minet game 21:01 definitelya Minet and and the Aristo... tests? 21:07 Desour so many good alternative names for minetest, but without "test" 21:08 sfan5 mesetint 21:08 Desour 5.0.0 would've been the perfect time to rename to minerelease 21:09 Pexin tru 21:09 Desour 2 more suggestions: minetset (easier to type for me apparently), meintest (anagram) 21:11 Pexin YourMese 21:11 Desour meinmese 21:11 Pexin as in YOU make game u want 21:12 Pexin yourmine 21:12 Pexin kek 21:13 Desour meinemine 21:13 definitelya wtftest 21:13 definitelya u may have 1 vowel. 21:13 Desour the f in wtf is unpopular in schools and other circles 21:14 Pexin i pick one w umlauts 21:14 definitelya Of course, it would stand for "what the fork"! 21:14 definitelya *grins* 21:14 Desour or "want to fork" 21:15 Desour wtfthis 21:15 Pexin in all srs, YourVox 21:15 definitelya jkjk... unless? 21:15 rubenwardy mineprod 21:15 definitelya Ok I need slep. 21:15 Desour vöxel 21:15 Pexin voxbox 21:15 Desour rubenwardy: what's prod? 21:16 rubenwardy production 21:16 Pexin test -> production 21:16 rubenwardy you often have test and prod environments 21:16 definitelya Alien prodding is not allowed by celeron, I think. 21:17 Pexin while back i looked up what would be the gernan fot "tunnelbuilder" but do not memory 21:17 Desour !tell definitelya ^ citation needed 21:17 MinetestBot Desour: I'll pass that on when definitelya is around 21:17 Desour tunnelbauer 21:36 MinetestBot definitelya: Oct-19 21:17 UTC ^ citation needed 21:37 Desour oh, MinetestBot you're doing your job today? 21:43 MTDiscord So many of these names would be great for release version names. Peppy Prodtest, Ticklish Tunnelbauer, Mocking Minerelease