Time Nick Message 01:10 Noclip[m] Does the ingame contentdb browser and downloader always use https/tls? 01:12 rubenwardy Yes 01:19 Noclip[m] rubenwardy: But the connection between client and server during gameplay (including the chat) is still unencrypted, right? 01:19 rubenwardy Correct 01:19 Noclip[m] Okay 01:24 cheapie Decided to try Minetest on a terrible computer from about 2011 here (has an AMD E-450, which is a... not-great netbook CPU, despite this being a desktop). Server can't really keep up, but the client ran okay after turning the settings down enough (I see the default settings still assume you're playing on a supercomputer). 01:24 muurkha heh 01:24 muurkha erle told me about this subsampling setting which helped a lot with my wimpy laptop supercomputer 01:25 muurkha undersampling = 4 01:25 stormchaser3000 lol, I would expect it to run reasonably well, but perhaps I was getting my hopes up 01:25 muurkha I stuck it in my minetest.conf and now I never get below 25 fps 01:25 stormchaser3000 It does at least work somewhat well on a Pi 400, but that's probably overkill 01:25 cheapie Yeah, I'm sure I could get the client running faster if I played with some of those settings, but even with just the basics (more sane view range of like 30-50 and most of the eye candy disabled) it was hitting 40 FPS - which is "fine" 01:25 Noclip[m] Doesn't it even run fine on Raspi? 01:25 muurkha nice 01:26 cheapie This CPU is one of those weird ones AMD did for a while where its own integrated graphics are faster than what the CPU can keep up with. 01:26 stormchaser3000 cheapie: that's basically what I was getting on my Pi 400 when I had window compositing disabled on xfce4 and the viewing-range reduced 01:26 farribeiro run in raspi 4? 01:27 muurkha raspi 4 is equivalent to 400 I think 01:27 muurkha it just doesn't have a keyboard built into it 01:27 stormchaser3000 I didn't have to disable the basic shaders, though I imagine if I had gone near trees I would have had to have changed the appearance of the leaves 01:27 farribeiro try out the flathub ... arm64 is supported 01:27 stormchaser3000 yeah, it can be downloaded from Flathub, but it's also available in the Manjaro repos (though that tends to lag a bit behind) 01:28 cheapie farribeiro: I'm not sure what difference that makes, basically every distro ever ships MT in a real package manager too. 01:28 stormchaser3000 I am surprised at how well hexchat works on the pi 400 these days though. I used to get more rolling-shutter effects with gtk2 apps 01:28 stormchaser3000 Even Ubuntu 10.04 had Minetest 0.3 in it's repos ;) 01:29 farribeiro also kvirc built with arm64 ... i maintainer 01:29 muurkha does minetest 0.3 run better on a netbook? 01:29 stormchaser3000 If you can manage to get 0.3 to compile, then probably 01:29 cheapie Heck, even Haiku (which isn't Linux) ships Minetest in their repos. They don't really have working 3D acceleration, so performance... isn't great. 01:29 stormchaser3000 0.3 uses some old C code that doesn't really compile on modern systems without some modifications 01:29 cheapie They default to burningsvideo, IIRC. 01:29 stormchaser3000 that's cool to hear Haiku has it 01:30 stormchaser3000 That's a project I check in on every once in a while 01:31 muurkha why would it be hard to get 0.3 to compile? 01:31 stormchaser3000 Old C standards 01:31 stormchaser3000 Old C standards and modern GCC don't mix very well 01:31 muurkha I think GCC can still compile C89 and even K&R C 01:31 stormchaser3000 you can technically get it to compile, but you have to change some include statements 01:32 muurkha I have occasionally had to tweak stuff from the 90s that does things like write to strings 01:32 stormchaser3000 the header files in glibc aren't quite the same as they were back then and you can compile it with clang, but I have run into strange results doing that (mapgen was all wonky) 01:33 stormchaser3000 I think there are a couple source files that need unistd.h nowdays and possibly one more header file that wasn't required back then 01:33 muurkha oh, sure 01:34 muurkha it's common for the includes you need to change a bit 01:34 muurkha but easy to fix 02:32 Noclip[m] rubenwardy: I some form of admin confirmation required if someone wants to add a new project to contentdb? 02:33 MTDiscord you add it, submit it for review, and an editor reviews it 02:33 rubenwardy .Packages are reviewed by editors. This is mostly to look for issues in the description or licensing, they don't read every line of code 02:34 rubenwardy Or even any kind of code 02:35 Noclip[m] But at least it prevents an attacker from just spamming new projects? 02:36 MTDiscord yeah, and all the stuff in package inclusion 02:36 MTDiscord and images, etc 02:37 Noclip[m] Does the review include testing the project? 02:37 MTDiscord officially, no 08:15 muurkha huh, I just found out VanessaE left Minetest in November. that's a huge bummer 08:16 muurkha I was wondering why I wasn't seeing updates on any of her mods 08:25 Oblomov oof 08:26 muurkha she handed off all her servers to different people in the community so the users wouldn't lose their buildings and stuff 13:07 schwarzwald[m] I'm fooling around with refactoring the OBJ mesh loader in Irrlicht, and things are already breaking. 13:08 MTDiscord ooh I've read the obj mesh loader to infer the subset of obj it supports 13:08 schwarzwald[m] I created an in-memory buffer to fake file loading for my unit tests, but it's incomplete because of limitations with constness ATM. 13:09 schwarzwald[m] `stringstream::tellg()` isn't const, but `IReadFile::getPos()` is, so I have big problems there. 13:09 schwarzwald[m] I hardcoded that and the file size to make it compile, but when I loaded the mesh the stdlib threw an exception. 13:14 mazes_83 I'm looking at memory size for my server, even no player logged in memory usage increase. Is it supposed to ? 13:14 MTDiscord Depends on what's running. Mods can cause stuff to load. 13:15 MTDiscord Sounds like a maybe memleak. May also be Lua doing its thing though; what happens if you call collectgarbage a few times? 13:17 mazes_83 idk how to call collectgarbage 13:17 MTDiscord With WE you should be able to use //lua 13:17 MTDiscord Otherwise just grab a mod that does it periodically 13:18 MTDiscord Lua should schedule GC itself, but who knows how it's heuristic works and when it starts to do so 13:18 MTDiscord its* 13:19 mazes_83 ok got it 13:20 mazes_83 need to restart server to test one or other way 13:35 mazes_83 got to let the server idle a bit to be able to test 13:38 mazes_83 second question bit same as first: what can trigger cpu usage when idle (not that much but still > ten times more as an idle firefox window) 13:42 MTDiscord You mean in MT specifically? 13:43 mazes_83 yes 13:44 MTDiscord I'd find out what the baseline for the C++ code is by running something barebones like Void Game ... and then anything beyond that, I'd suspect is globalsteps or afters, if no players are on. 13:44 mazes_83 ok, I will take a look on globalsteps in my mod set 13:46 mazes_83 one is already suspected (climate_api), I did local changes that dropped drastically this mod cpu usage, but didn't check if it can leak some stuffs 13:48 mazes_83 may lua code coverage tools help, or am I on the wrong way ? 13:55 sfan5 the server has a profiler 13:55 schwarzwald[m] Lol, so that's why it crashed. `c8* buf = new c8[filesize];` with a filesize of -1 probably doesn't work too well. 14:26 mazes_83 sfan5: the profiler works for memory usage ? Can I use it on server with none connected ? 14:26 sfan5 cpu usage 15:10 mazes_83 ok thanks all, I added a guard to just skip globalstep if no player connected in two mods: petz and climate_api: the memory consumption is now stable when server "idle" 15:11 mazes_83 now I got to see which of those two slowly eats all memory 15:12 mazes_83 hope to see less swapping on the host. again ty all 15:50 MTDiscord If you do isolate it to one specific mod, getting a bug report into the mod's bug tracker would be great 15:57 Meowie_Gamer hello 16:11 Meowie_Gamer im kinda tired??? i got tons of sleep 16:58 ronoaldo Hi! Does anyone know why water_life is no longer on Content DB? https://content.minetest.net/packages/Gundul/water_life/ - it was here, now do not show up on search anymore. 17:09 ensayia Seems like reaching out to the developer would be the best course of action. If they don't answer... that might be why. 17:09 farribeiro Gundul 17:09 fluxionary ronoaldo, possibly check the approval discussion, it might have gotten un-approved for some reason 17:10 fluxionary (it can take a day to get an email alert about something like that, depending on your email settings) 17:17 ronoaldo ensayia: thans, since the page with the author/mod no longer exists on ContentDB, I'm trying to find where it was hosted but I'm not finding the mod elsewhere. Searched for the mod in forums also without luck. 17:18 ronoaldo fluxionary: do you happend to have a link for such page? My search engine attempt landed only to a comment on the mod made by a user, which lead to the same 404 page I linked above 17:18 fluxionary ronoaldo: oh sorry, i thought you were the mod dev 17:18 fluxionary i've got a copy of the mod in case it needs to be mirrored somewhere 17:18 ronoaldo no ,the mod was on my server, and now I don't seem to get it. I do have the mod copy thogh, in the image container of my server so I'll probably need to restore from there. 17:19 ronoaldo fluxionary: thank you! I got a version pinned on my server, probably going to use it 17:19 definitelya Here is the repo: https://github.com/berengma/water_life 17:20 definitelya berengma AKA Gundul 17:20 ronoaldo oh, cool - that confused me for a few seconds until I saw the Contributors spot at Github lol thanks definitelya 17:21 definitelya np :) 17:25 MTDiscord The author removed it from cdb. Reportedly they took a step back from minetest due to life a while back, and one user claims they left minetest due to some drama on the forums recently, however I can't personally verify that 17:25 ronoaldo oh, that is unfortunate. thanks for the info Jonathon 17:29 ronoaldo i also find it annoying that contentdb do not keep older versions archived/downloadable... I download mods during my server build-time and most of TenPlus1 mods have older versions removed :| 17:29 ronoaldo but that is just for me probably, so... 17:30 fluxionary on a different topic, do any devs have any idea how a player object passed to an `on_dieplayer` callback would have the name be an empty string and have get_pos return (0,0,0)? i can't find any evidence a mod called it directly. 17:33 fluxionary ronoaldo, all of TenPlus1's mods are here, you can use any commit you like: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1 17:35 ronoaldo yeah, Im using fixed releases from contentdb for reproducible builds, and that is failing so probably going to need to move from it to git commit hashes... wonderful 17:38 fluxionary using git submodules for that is pretty reliable, e.g. https://github.com/BlockySurvival/bls_mods 17:39 ronoaldo yeah, I have used git submodules and it is quite painful sometimes - it could probably me doing it wrong tho. 17:39 farribeiro ronoaldo make a go utility to download from contentdb 17:40 fluxionary farribeiro, doesn't help if the old versions aren't available 17:40 farribeiro i thinking do same, but as lua module 17:40 ronoaldo yep, I have the tool and the issue is that the older versions are removed 17:40 farribeiro right 17:41 farribeiro i think a git submodule is a good way to maintain updated 17:42 ronoaldo I'll probably go nuts and vendor everything and call it a day 17:43 farribeiro are you writing the month update for your server, ronoaldo ? 17:43 ronoaldo yep, working on it now, updating for 5.6.1 and doing the mod updates right after 17:43 ronoaldo the issue is I could not split these as upgrading to 5.6.1 forced me to also update missing mod versions 17:44 ronoaldo it will be harder to debug if issues arise 17:44 mazes_83 Warr1024: I did already open pr for some other parts in climate_api 17:44 farribeiro i opened some issues, ronoaldo, take a look 17:44 ronoaldo farribeiro: will do, thanks! 17:45 mazes_83 Warr1024: in fact same part but different issue (cpu), now try to fix memory (if not in petz) 17:45 farribeiro i will open new issue 17:47 farribeiro no... just a single commet 17:52 MTDiscord ronoaldo: cdb does keep older versions around, looks like tenplus1 probably purged there older ones 17:53 mazes_83 is it about doors redo ? I introcued some change to it recently 17:53 mazes_83 introduced 17:53 mazes_83 * 18:01 mazes_83 ronoaldo: ? 18:02 ronoaldo mazes_83: sorry, I could not understand your question ... 18:03 mazes_83 you said you had one issue with one of tenplus1 mod, if it is doors redo I can maybe help 18:03 ronoaldo I was mentioning that I was trying to apply some skills in software releases for reproducible builds that I used elsewhere into my Minetest server, and was sharing my failed attempts. Specifically, the attempt to use contentdb as a source of truth. 18:04 ronoaldo mazes_83: on, no - it is not a specific mod, it is the mod author removing the mod old releases that caused issues to me 18:04 MTDiscord i would never use contentdb as a source of truth. always git 18:04 mazes_83 ok, got it wrong, not readed all very careful 18:05 MTDiscord cdb is meant to be user friendly and for non technical users. or a listing service to find mods for more technical users and then use git 18:13 ronoaldo Jonathon: yes, that makes sense. I tought it was the central repository for minetest mods when I started. There isn't one sadly. By source of truth I mean: point in time released content source of truth. Most git repos don't tag releases so it is a bit harder to figure out what is a "stable" release. 18:13 MTDiscord minetest mods in general dont really have releases, probably 90 percent are rolling release 18:14 ronoaldo Yeah, it gets more difficult to keep my server running then :) probably going to shut it down. 18:17 MTDiscord not really, dependabot, etc, services make it rather easy. plenty of servers do it 18:18 ronoaldo my point is not that it is hard to update the mods, it is hard to debug issues when something breaks 18:18 ronoaldo updating the mods is as simple as a single command. debugging what broke with everything rolling release is the issue 18:19 ronoaldo I was relying on a "stable" ping as made by the author, which is as far as we can go with regards to mods I guess 18:19 ronoaldo What I am realizing is that there is no such thing so it is just pointless 18:20 ronoaldo The server I have now has around 80G of player generated data on the map (mapgen + player builds + entities + nodes), and all can break with an update. 18:20 MTDiscord welcome to software dev in general 18:21 Desour then just reload the data from the backup that you made before updating 18:21 MTDiscord also ^ 18:22 ronoaldo sorry guys, I appreciate your suggestions but I'm not new to software dev - the whole point I am making is about releasing software. 18:22 ronoaldo I have two daily backups off site where I host the software, that helps when something is wrong. Yeas I have a snapshot of the code on Docker image which also helps reverting a bad update. 18:23 ronoaldo This is development 101 perhaps these days? My point is about releasing software and how I was attempting to apply the practices I am used to on my server hosting... but I guess all points are already crystal clear probably :) thanks for the help. 18:24 MTDiscord see python 2 -> 3 having small breakages or any other language. 18:24 ronoaldo Yep :) i suffered a bit from it too 18:25 ronoaldo I'll have to leave, again, thanks for the comments. 18:35 muurkha Python 2 -> 3 was extremely unusual; that enormous degree of backwards-incompatibility has never happened in C, Perl, bash, C++, Objective-C, COBOL, FORTRAN, or just about any other language 18:36 farribeiro lua 18:36 Not_Leader perl and raku? 18:36 muurkha Lua is an exception! 18:36 muurkha it was going to happen in Perl but eventually they renamed Perl 6 to Raku, yeah 18:36 muurkha Lua doesn't try for backwards-compatibility from one release to the next, even 5.1 to 5.2 18:36 farribeiro luajit isn't compatible with PUC Lua 5.4 18:36 muurkha well, luajit is Lua 5.1 18:37 muurkha but PUC Lua 5.4 isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.3, which isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.2, either 18:38 muurkha it's pretty common for *libraries* (such as Minetest mods) to have backwards-compatibility problems, but very unusual for languages 18:38 ronoaldo Imagine if Python 2 was removed and we only had a git submodule to python 3 available? This is what I was talking about. 18:38 MTDiscord LuaJIT is a 5.1 with a bunch of 5.2 features added on top, plus the FFI 18:39 Not_Leader wait what about idris 1 and 2? 18:40 ronoaldo What about go 1 and.. wait, there is only Go 1. 18:41 farribeiro muurkha as lua is a exception, minetest is also. just works with luajit 18:43 Desour minetest also works with PUC lua 18:43 farribeiro fails with contentdb 18:43 MTDiscord farribeiro: PUC Lua 5.1, that is 18:45 Desour farribeiro: have u opened an issue? 18:45 farribeiro yes PUC Lua 5.1 18:45 farribeiro for ronoaldo? 18:45 Desour for puc lua failing with contentdb 18:46 farribeiro no... 18:46 muurkha farribeiro: minetest doesn't update to new versions of Lua because Lua is an exception 18:47 muurkha I mean, Lua is intended to be used that way 18:47 MTDiscord basically yes (also LuaJIT) 18:47 muurkha Not_Leader: I don't know about Idris 18:47 Desour we need 8 more issues 18:47 muurkha I have enough issues for all of us 18:48 Desour muurkha: what's your name on github? 18:49 muurkha kragen 18:49 Desour found 0 issues from u 18:53 muurkha it was a joke 19:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve crafting recipe documentation (#12806) 13977f656 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/977f656e09c4b542e09ec210b202ba46eb45ac5e (152022-10-01T19:20:28Z) 19:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add an item pick up callback (2) (#7712) 1322cbc05 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/22cbc058080127445b69d2137e346ad52f8b3387 (152022-10-01T19:21:06Z) 19:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Teach screwdriver to rotate 4dir nodes (#2992) 1399a7193 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/99a719309559b632af65756f380496aa269d4b4a (152022-10-01T19:19:42Z) 19:28 muurkha Desour: I meant "I have issues" in the sense of "I have psychological problems" :) 19:33 Desour ah, ok 20:22 Teckla Do Minetest games update themselves automatically? For example, I'm playing MineCore 5. Just wondering if it'll update itself, or if it requires manual intervention to update. 20:26 MTDiscord You have to update them in the content tab usually 20:31 kilbith welp, looks like I can play MT in good conditions now: https://i.imgur.com/ARuGx46.png 21:25 MTDiscord 3k USD laptop with linux deeply saddens me 21:41 MTDiscord What about 6K USD desktop with linux? 21:54 muurkha ElCeejo: send it to me, I'm willing to make the sacrifice 21:57 muurkha I'll suffer the deep sadness it brings, for your sake 22:07 MTDiscord That'd be up to Kilbith sadly 22:13 Teckla LandarVargan: Thank you! 22:54 Desour did you know? there are more closed PRs than closed issues 23:42 schwarzwald[m] Adding new bugs is a lot more fun than fixing old ones. 23:52 MTDiscord that's a lot documentation grammar corrections