Time  Nick           Message
00:18 MTDiscord      <Bastrabun> Not long ago, the backport-5 branch of MT engine was updated. Does that mean this branch is what people who want a stable version  should follow?
00:19 MTDiscord      <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12773
00:19 MTDiscord      <Jonathon> ^read the above
00:20 MTDiscord      <Bastrabun> I did, but not sure what to make of it. Is it a new 5.6.1 release now?
00:21 MTDiscord      <Jonathon> also read https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/747163566800633906/1020256247674572860
00:22 MTDiscord      <Bastrabun> Ok, so I barged in right when release was still ongoing? ? Then I'll shut up until done and happily test for 5.6.1 instead of 5.6.0
11:14 jwmhjwmh       rubenwardy Why was the Zero modpack removed from ContentDB?
11:17 MTDiscord      <ROllerozxa> technical modname conflicts
11:19 MTDiscord      <ROllerozxa> since it was a modpack that provided mods such as player_api, it would be installed whenever you tried to install some MTG-dependant mods and break dependency resolution
11:19 MTDiscord      <ROllerozxa> "install some MTG-dependant mods"... for a non-MTG game ofc
11:33 jwmhjwmh       That isn't Zero's fault. When installing dependencies, ContentDB should keep a blacklist for mods like player_api.
11:37 rubenwardy     I meant to write a thread but never got around to it. It broke another game when a user installed zero indirectly to get player API. Zero should be a game forked from void, making it a modpack doesn't make much sense
11:39 jwmhjwmh       The advantage of making it a modpack is that individual mods can be enabled and disabled by the user.
11:39 MTDiscord      <kimapr> why does it need to be forked from void
11:39 MTDiscord      <kimapr> just make it a standalone game
11:45 jwmhjwmh       I was actually the one who suggested to the maintainer of Zero to rename zr_player_api to player_api. It seems the issue is my fault '=(
11:48 jwmhjwmh       How about during dependency installation ContentDB just blacklist modpacks that provide mods which are also provided by MTG.
11:49 rubenwardy     Easier to implement that blacklist by removing the modpack from CDB
11:50 rubenwardy     I'm currently working on adding supported games to Minetest and ContentDB
11:50 rubenwardy     One way to do it is have Zero only have Void in supported_games, and so not be installed for other games
11:53 jwmhjwmh       That sounds good. About when will that be done?
12:11 definitelya    I had a tornado forecasted in my area today, so my connection is acting up, it seems. :)
12:31 definitelya    jwmhjwmh: I still don't really get why the removal from CDB is that big of a deal, anyone looking to contribute or to play with Zero will want to use the git version, IMO.
12:37 jwmhjwmh       I expect a lot of players only find mods through ContentDB.
12:38 definitelya    Yes, that's probably why.
15:12 MTDiscord      <GoodClover> What's the difference in input handling between the main menu and in-game? I'm trying to run MT inside of Xephyr (X nesting), mouse & kbd work fine in the menu but nothing works in-game.
15:14 MTDiscord      <GoodClover> Mouse makes some sense, as in the menu it's being used as "normal", in-game its being captured and used for rotation. But why would the keyboard system be different?
22:46 galex-713_     hello, i am experiencing fps drop after some time playing minetest and don’t understand why
22:47 galex-713_     also i don’t understand why it takes 20% of my memory
22:47 galex-713      i am currently at 3-7fps but usually it’s more like 15-20fps (which is totally fine
22:49 schwarzwald[m] I sometimes have an FPS drop when my view range is set too high and I move into an un-generated part of the world.
22:49 galex-713      for me it’s like, independent of the world i am playing
22:49 galex-713      it’s usually after a little while playing, it comes
22:49 galex-713      and then i can stop, start, restart, it’s shit, idk why
22:49 galex-713      i think reboot changes it, but idk why
22:50 schwarzwald[m] Could it be a mod?
22:50 schwarzwald[m] Having mesecons running etc. can really cause an FPS drop.
22:51 galex-713      but it’s even in multiplayer
22:51 galex-713      and no mesecons in default game
22:51 galex-713      so no
22:51 schwarzwald[m] galex-713_: I'm curious whether this memory pretty much stays at 20% or whether it looks like it gradually gets more and more.
22:52 galex-713      no it stands still
22:52 galex-713      were you thinking about memory leaks?
22:52 schwarzwald[m] Ok, probably not a memory leak, then.
22:52 galex-713      because the issue is preserved if i kill and start again minetest
22:52 schwarzwald[m] But not if you restart the computer?
22:52 galex-713      i’m not sure
22:53 galex-713      i had this issue, so i stopped playing minetest for a while
22:53 galex-713      and today i tried again, and everything was fine
22:53 galex-713      i was starting to believe it was debian’s version which was bad, and arch’s one was good
22:53 galex-713      but no
22:53 galex-713      now it’s back to as bad as before
22:53 schwarzwald[m] Sounds like a bug.
22:54 schwarzwald[m] Might be a tricky one to get confirmed, though. ?
22:55 galex-713      the most weird is
22:55 galex-713      ok maybe idk how graphics work etc.
22:55 galex-713      but minetest only takes 13% of cpu
22:55 galex-713      but is at 10fps
22:55 galex-713      why?
22:56 Desour         if you have 8 virual cores, 12.5% is one core
22:56 Desour         does it really stay over process restarts?
22:56 Desour         sounds very weird
22:56 schwarzwald[m] One possible explanation is that there's something that persists in one of the databases that correlates with a decrease in FPS.
22:57 galex-713      Desour, dual core
22:57 schwarzwald[m] Entities get despawned IIRC so entities doesn't explain it.
22:58 schwarzwald[m] Oh, but do boats despawn?
22:58 galex-713      schwarzwald[m], anyway it’s even in new worlds
22:59 galex-713      maybe i’m getting crazy
22:59 galex-713      maybe it’s not minetest but something else…
22:59 galex-713      but what?
22:59 schwarzwald[m] galex-713: Ouch, that is even more confusing.
22:59 galex-713      why is minetest slow
22:59 schwarzwald[m] No settings changed?
22:59 Desour         does it also happen in other games?
22:59 galex-713      no
22:59 galex-713      i tried to delete .minetest and .cache
22:59 galex-713      Desour, i don’t know other fps that i can play on my computer ^^'
22:59 galex-713      i just noticed sometimes minetest was fluid
22:59 galex-713      but apparently it can’t stay fluid too long
23:00 MTDiscord      <GreenXenith> what is your view range set to
23:00 galex-713      it’s only a factor 2 so idk maybe i’m just crazy or picky or idk
23:00 galex-713      how can i know the view range?
23:00 Desour         + and -
23:00 MTDiscord      <GreenXenith> +/- keys increase/decrease it
23:00 MTDiscord      <GreenXenith> also R will toggle far view (it should be off)
23:01 galex-713      190
23:01 Desour         that's pretty high
23:01 schwarzwald[m] That's a lot more than I've found necessary.
23:01 galex-713      it’s not the default
23:01 galex-713      this is really weird, i just gained 1fps but it looks a lot more fluid
23:02 galex-713      not so much as before tho
23:02 MTDiscord      <GreenXenith> Well, I play at 200 view range. Necessary is subjective.
23:02 Desour         what gpu do you have btw, galex-713 ?
23:02 galex-713      Desour, i915
23:03 galex-713      Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller
23:06 galex-713      why does minetest needs 2G of resident memory? i don’t understand
23:08 Desour         the vertex data can be very much, i.e. ca. 4*6*(3+2+4)*4=864 bytes per leave node. and it's never freed
23:09 Desour         (4 vertices per side, 6 sides, world pos + uv pos + color, 4 bytes per float)
23:09 galex-713      why it’s never freed?
23:10 Desour         because we don't do it.
23:10 galex-713      but why?
23:10 Desour         (as least I don't think we do it, as you can always see all previous mapblocks via full view range)
23:10 galex-713      mm
23:11 galex-713      why loading all vertices while only a fraction is displayed?
23:11 Desour         minetest does many things sub-optimal
23:12 galex-713      ok…
23:12 galex-713      ig it’s not what makes it slow…
23:13 galex-713      why only 15fps while 15% of cpu? what’s bottleneck? gpu?
23:16 Desour         I guess so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:17 Desour         but if it slows down over time and doesn't get better when you restart minetest, it's most likely not minetest's fault. maybe your graphics driver has some issues
23:18 galex-713      :/
23:18 galex-713      maybe i should give up
23:19 Desour         there's someone in the minetest community who'd tell you to buy a new pc
23:21 schwarzwald[m] <Desour> "(as least I don't think we do it..." <- Seriously?
23:21 schwarzwald[m] How hard can this be to do? ?
23:21 schwarzwald[m] Maybe I'll give it a shot after university.
23:23 schwarzwald[m] C++ Core Guidelines says, "P.9: Don’t waste time or space", because, "This is C++"
23:23 schwarzwald[m] With the following note:
23:23 schwarzwald[m] 'Note Time and space that you spend well to achieve a goal (e.g., speed of development, resource safety, or simplification of testing) is not wasted. “Another benefit of striving for efficiency is that the process forces you to understand the problem in more depth.” - Alex Stepanov'
23:32 fluxionary     galex-713, is that 15% of one core, or 15% of all cores?
23:33 fluxionary     galex-713, i think the client is mostly single-threaded
23:34 fluxionary     schwarzwald[m], that sounds like larry wall's "programmer's virtue" of laziness
23:35 fluxionary     galex-713, oh i see you already provided that info earlier
23:49 fluxionary     > Desour: (as least I don't think we do it, as you can always see all previous mapblocks via full view range)
23:49 fluxionary     Desour, isn't that controlled by `client_unload_unused_data_timeout`?
23:50 fluxionary     (and also `client_mapblock_limit`)
23:56 Desour         fluxionary: ah seems so. I didn't know about that.
23:56 Desour         600 seconds by default is pretty long though