Time Nick Message 03:22 Wuzzy Repixture will soon see a major mod restructring, adding "rp_" in front of almost all mod names (including the evil "default") 03:22 Wuzzy @rubenwardy 03:22 Wuzzy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=409543#p409543 03:27 MTDiscord yay 03:33 MisterE[m] Wuzzy: you might take the opportunity to use one of the default replacements that splits it up into a bunch of mods 03:33 Wuzzy RIGHT 03:34 MTDiscord well, except repixtures default is heavily modified, so you would have to propagate those changes, and change the names of the default split up 03:35 MisterE[m] Yeah, and good luck even with the basic renaming project 03:36 MTDiscord also with a prefix of rp, maybe it will become the default game for all those roleplayers on minetest servers :p 03:36 Wuzzy xd 03:40 MTDiscord repix could be a better, more explicit optoin 03:40 MTDiscord option* 03:43 MTDiscord has anyone done a 5 character prefix yet? seems 2 is basically the standard, outside of mcl which is three 03:43 MTDiscord ikea uses 4 03:44 MTDiscord I have some 10-char prefixes 03:46 MTDiscord honestly for the purpose of namespaces being to reduce collisions, allowing 2-char prefixes seems odd 03:50 MTDiscord hmm, ig you count homedecor, its 9 04:01 MTDiscord well there you go 05:15 Wuzzy Hades Revisited has hades_ 10:13 MTDiscord My unreleased arcade game uses arc_* 10:35 MTDiscord there really should be some list of games' mod namespaces somewhere... NamespaceDB 11:13 TenPlus1 hi folks 11:17 TenPlus1 do we have any contentDb admin in the room today ??? 11:19 MTDiscord rubenwardy is the only ContentDB admin 11:19 TenPlus1 thanks luatic 11:20 TenPlus1 he seems to be afk today, was hoping :) 11:21 TenPlus1 wsor4035: you alive ? 11:24 definitelya luatic: I believe GreenXenith is right; if you allow the use of common namespaces like arc_, the author of a different game (named Advanced Robo-Cats or something, a long name) could then namespace it as some gibberish if so inclined, adding needless confusion to development for everyone using it, just to be compliant. 11:25 definitelya Or is that a non-issue? 11:27 MTDiscord arc_* isn't all that common 11:29 TenPlus1 when putting a world together you would test [game]'s and mods to make sure they are compatible first 11:30 MinetestBot 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest_game: TNT node drop particles: Only pick string tiles as fallback 13edd033b https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/edd033b708488472c6bd688b14d8a5f59ef5b218 (152022-04-24T11:29:29Z) 11:30 definitelya Ok, but eventually you'd run into a game that can't use the semi-common namespace. Modding is about the community, so I think it's important to keep things simple and clear. 11:37 TenPlus1 wsor4035: Could you please approve "Ethereal NG" mod on ContentDB, we have players waiting to use it and it doesn't appear on the content tab after you removed it 11:42 MTDiscord Have you fixed the problems with it yet? 11:42 TenPlus1 There was no problem to begin with, but yes, I've added separate default biome removal 11:43 TenPlus1 also next time I would appreciate it if you would file issues via the mods notabug.org page instead of pulling it offline 11:46 MTDiscord As CDB editors we have a responsibility to follow the policies of the platform. We can try to contact authors to resolve things quietly, but there is no standard way to reach authors that they ACTUALLY pay attention to, and we can't wait indefinitely. 11:47 TenPlus1 the source link is on the page itself, a simple message would have sufficed. but pulling the mod completely from the site was total overkill 11:47 MTDiscord But trackers are usually not too of mind when it comes to urgent problems. 11:48 erle indeed, taking it offline is the only way to make sure people pay attention 11:49 MTDiscord I don't think we're going to change the policy of correcting our mistake if we discover that a mod was wrongly approved, and I don't think we should. 11:49 erle yeah i also think it would be bad 11:49 TenPlus1 the mod was approved by ruberwardy and thoroughly tested 11:49 erle so what was the problem? 11:49 erle from both a QA point of view and fairness problem, everything should be complaint 11:49 erle compliant 11:50 TenPlus1 there was none, wsor assumed that ethereal biome settings were insufficiant and abused his position as contentdb admin to pull it 11:50 erle that sounds kinda stupid if you pit it like that 11:50 erle so 11:50 erle what do you mean with “insufficient” 11:50 TenPlus1 he also pulled Doors Redo without even testing the mod and quickly re-added it 11:50 erle what lol 11:50 erle why 11:50 MTDiscord If you've fixed the biome issue but it's still not approved yet, make sure you mention that you fixed it in the approval thread, so any logged in editor will see there's new info on it. 11:51 TenPlus1 no reason, am starting to think he has a grudge against certain mod makers 11:51 erle i am quite certain that wsor has a grudge against some people, but i thought it would be snarky comments at most 11:51 MTDiscord @wsor statement please 11:51 erle for example, i often have comments on github that others disagree with 11:51 MTDiscord It is not an "abuse of power" to fulfill the responsibility that comes with that power, including correcting past mistakes, even if people have come to rely on those mistakes. 11:52 erle and wsor was the person who most often just downvoted my comments without any explanation 11:52 MTDiscord TenPlus1: wsor isn't an admin; he's just an editor - see https://content.minetest.net/users/ 11:52 erle maybe even when i turned out to be right hehe 11:52 TenPlus1 you went about it the wrong way wsor, what would have been an easy comment or message turned into all out abuse of position 11:52 erle TenPlus1 if wsor did something then the problem is not with the person but with the system 11:53 erle like, if the system permits it, that's the issue 11:53 erle or, maybe it is a non-issue 11:53 erle because there was a problem 11:53 erle i can't snay 11:53 erle say 11:53 MTDiscord Tenplus, I can't speak to any particular person having any grudge against you, but based on your attitude in the package approval thread, I could see how they come about. 11:53 TenPlus1 the system was fine until he decided to make it an issue 11:53 erle but first look for systemic reasons before you blame a single person 11:54 MTDiscord oh look, tenplus1 is still complaining rather than actually fixing the issue. the problem is tenplus1 thinks it is acceptable to break every single biome mod and force them to optional depend ethereal instead of properly fixing the issue. they also have turned to attacks rather than actually fixing the issue 11:54 erle i don't even like wsor (i.e. i'm largely indifferent), but please try to figure out if a) there was a real bug b) if it was a honest mistake 11:54 erle some people just don't care 11:54 TenPlus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=409547#p409547 11:54 MTDiscord they have exhibited this behavior in the past when called out on using mc assets 11:55 erle Jonathon why would adding it as an optional depends help? 11:55 TenPlus1 the assets were supplied by the actual creator for the mod, I had express permission to use them 11:55 TenPlus1 and after the upset I ended up replacing them completely by a new artist to keep the peace 11:55 MTDiscord adding it as a optional depends fixes the issue because it makes minetest load your mod after ethereal nukes all the biomes 11:56 erle oh lol 11:56 erle i don't see a mistake here, maybe one of documentation 11:56 MTDiscord the nether mod for example, handles this properly by saving existing biomes and shifting them 11:56 erle there are lots of mods that mess up the game world 11:56 erle oh i see 11:56 erle it's just massively suboptimal 11:56 erle and easy to fix 11:57 MTDiscord to be fair, its easy to make this mistake based on how the api is, but not acceptable to break every other biome mod ever 11:57 erle i would not think this as grounds for rejection, but if these kind of incompatibilities are – then i guess mineclone5 will never make it back on cdb lol 11:57 erle (unstable APIs, guaranteed to break something sooner or later if it has not already) 11:57 MTDiscord games != mods though 11:57 TenPlus1 exactly my thought, "aotearoa and australia" mods do the same 11:57 erle so a single mod is not allowed to break stuff, but a game is 11:57 MTDiscord If ethereal were a game it would be a different story, but it's not 11:58 MTDiscord mods are supposed to be used with other mods, games are allowed to have their own environments 11:58 MTDiscord erle: basically yes 11:58 TenPlus1 ethereal was a base to build onto, that's how it was made 11:58 MTDiscord anyways, it appears tenplus1 has pushed a patch 4 hours ago that may fix the issue. will need to fix this 11:58 TenPlus1 and to add to that base a simple optional dependency of ethereal could be added so it loads first 11:58 MTDiscord *will need to test this 11:58 MTDiscord otherwise the entire "compatible games" listing would be pretty pointless :-) 11:58 MTDiscord TenPlus1: yet it wasn't made a game 11:58 MTDiscord Being allowed to be incompatible with every other package of its type is more or less the defining trait of a game. 11:59 erle luatic the “compatible games” listing is probably bogus for mcl5 because it changes so much, but yeah 11:59 TenPlus1 keeping it a mod was a lot simpler for world creators 11:59 erle i think a) ethereal should be fixed b) it is stupid to pull something over this when other mods do the same 11:59 MTDiscord also, for the record, im just a cdb editor, aka the rank that actually approves content. rubenwardy is the only admin 11:59 TenPlus1 it has already been fixed erle, changed were pushed earlier 11:59 MTDiscord erle: no, other biome mods do not do the same thing 12:00 MTDiscord [dis]approves* 12:00 TenPlus1 but in the end, the choice of use comes down to the player and their mod usage 12:00 erle Jonathon so what rule says that a mod may not conflict with another mod that has nothing to do with it? 12:00 MTDiscord players may freely choose mods themselves, yes. 12:00 MTDiscord CDB respects that choice, just as players must respect that some mods are inappropriate for CDB. 12:00 TenPlus1 if they can freely choose then why was ethereal pulled from contentdb entirely 12:01 erle i ma happy that cdb is doing some necessary QA here, but i think if that is such a huge problem, it should have been caught in the first place. it can probably be automated. 12:01 MTDiscord state of completion, and contendb precedence 12:01 MTDiscord also, feel free to send a cdb report for editors to review if you think a mod is breaking other things 12:02 MTDiscord erle, if you think CDB policies can be automated, then we look forward to seeing your PR for it ... 12:02 TenPlus1 I wouldnt say automate things, but message the authors in a timely manner before removing mods 12:03 erle Jonathon what if a mod does not work in it's default state? i reported it as a negative review, but it was turned into something else ig. should i have reported directly somewhere else? https://content.minetest.net/threads/2530/ 12:03 erle i mean it is fixed now 12:03 erle but what if i find a mod that does not work in its default state in the future 12:04 MTDiscord CDB is ultimately there to serve players, especially new players who don't already know all the places they can get packages, and not just a place to promote creators work. CDB policies are thus geared toward offering naive players the best possible experience, rather than just accepting anything that technically works if you know what you're doing with it. 12:04 erle then i guess i have some negative reviews to post on QA grounds 12:04 erle if it leads to people improving their mods 12:05 MTDiscord well, in that case you abused a review as a bug report. should have made that as a thread, also making a issue and linking it to a thread would probably been better. also, you can report with the report button 12:05 TenPlus1 and now I have 6 players asking why they cannot install Ethereal on singleplayer worlds because it's been pulled from content tab 12:05 MTDiscord the report button is at the bottom right of the page, under threads 12:05 erle TenPlus1 maybe you should have made it PERFECT in the first place 12:05 erle Jonathon so in the future i report it there if it does not work? 12:05 TenPlus1 no mod can be made perfect, and ethereal was made a specific way for a reason 12:06 MTDiscord i would report to the issue tracker first, but yes, you can also report there as well if the author is not doing anything 12:06 TenPlus1 I take bug reports seriously and they are usually fixed within a day if possible, but no report or message was sent, the mod was simply removed 12:06 erle well in this case i just thought the author will react to a recent negative review 12:06 erle and also i posted the solution in the review 12:06 erle so players know it is not totally useless 12:06 erle just have some setting 12:07 erle thank you 12:07 MTDiscord Tenplus, if you are very responsible about you mods then that is commendable, but we don't maintain a special list of VIP modders who actually respond quickly, so sometimes you just have to roll with it the way things are. 12:07 TenPlus1 It would be better if bug reports and issues were sent to the git pages the mod is hosted, that way they are checked more frequently... contentdb is for reviews more than anything 12:08 TenPlus1 Warr, that's a horrid way to act, you do the right thing by letting an author know if there's an issue before pulling it entirely 12:08 erle the reason why i have not submitted mineclonia to contentdb is because it does not yet fulfil the quality standards my and my friend agreed on. 12:08 MTDiscord tenplus1: please make a new release that contains the changes. otherwise would need to wait until tonight for cdb to auto make a new one 12:08 TenPlus1 I already have Jonathon, and it was added 5 hours ago 12:09 TenPlus1 I'm still waiting for it to be approved 12:09 MTDiscord I think ideally sufficiently bad bugs can be negative reviews as well as bug reports, as users have a right to know ... but then ideally, review authors are also responsible for their reviews and update them if the situation changes, but that generally also doesn't happen... 12:09 MTDiscord ah right, need to refresh the page for some reason, sorry 12:10 MTDiscord anyways, approved now 12:10 TenPlus1 thank you 12:10 MTDiscord as the issue has been fixed 12:11 MTDiscord Tenplus, if you want to develop a reputation then you do via your actions, but rather than someone who responds promptly and appropriately, you have developed one as someone who overreacts and thus it's better to just avoid. I didn't really know you before this ethereal scandal, but now I think I know more than I want to. 12:12 TenPlus1 scandal ? 12:12 TenPlus1 it wasnt an overreadction, the mod did waht it was meant to do 12:12 TenPlus1 a clean slate with new biomes to play with 12:12 MTDiscord anyways, this discussion certainly wasn't pointless in the end as it sparked game#2947 12:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2947 -- Mapgen: Don't clear biomes, decorations and ores by appgurueu 12:13 MTDiscord and got your mod fixed and reapproved :) 12:13 TenPlus1 how long before it re-appears on the content id tab ? 12:13 MTDiscord The idea of even having a "clear all registrations" kind of API is dubious without a more complex dependency system. 12:14 MTDiscord The content tab in the in game menu uses some caching or something. 12:14 MTDiscord TenPlus1: I suppose your Minetest will have to re-pull it's index? 12:14 MTDiscord its* 12:14 MTDiscord It takes a few minutes I think. 12:14 MTDiscord So try restarting 12:16 TenPlus1 Please know that I don't intend to over-react to things like this, it just irks me that proper channels aren't used to inform mod makers of any issues and an over-reaction of pulling a mod is somehow justified 12:17 TenPlus1 e.g. Doors Redo was taken down because wsor assumed it wasn't api compatible with default doors mod, when I stated it was he quickly re-added it's approval and removed any comments to the contrary on contentdb to hide the mistake 12:18 MTDiscord no, that was pulled due to rubenwardy and wuzzys request 12:19 MTDiscord doors redux was also pulled at the same time 12:19 TenPlus1 for waht reason ? it was fully api compliant 12:19 MTDiscord All this "proper channels" talk sounds a lot like some shady back-room dealing. 12:19 MTDiscord lol 12:19 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12034 tenplus1: control f for doors in this 12:20 MTDiscord redux is not api compliant, redo is 12:21 MTDiscord *api/node 12:21 TenPlus1 I try to keep my own mods up-to-date with changes added in the default mods so they are always compliant 12:22 MTDiscord thanks 12:22 TenPlus1 which is where some of the newer features of the default one's come from 12:32 TenPlus1 o/ 12:44 erle luatic what exactly changes there? 13:26 MTDiscord erle: changes where? 13:26 MTDiscord removing the clearregistered*? 13:27 MTDiscord ideally nothing would happen, except for some mods (adding more ores, for instance) not having to add default as an opt. dependency without risking weird bugs where their ore registrations get cleared :P 13:43 erle luatic what's the worst effect that could happen? 13:52 runs hi ya 13:52 runs hi 13:52 runs :-) 13:52 MTDiscord erle: biomes, ores and decorations of some mods appear that weren't expected to appear as they used to be silently unregistered? 13:53 MTDiscord I don't really see any downsides to this fix, but I also don't know the intention of this rather ancient code from 0.4.16 - perhaps it used to be necessary back then? 13:53 erle i am no sure what this entails. 13:53 erle if you have no idea why the code was written, then you have no business in deleting it. 13:54 erle figure out why a fence was built before tearing it down 13:54 erle did you try git blame? 13:54 MTDiscord yes 13:54 MTDiscord please read the convo at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2947 13:54 MTDiscord the commit doesn't explain the lines either, sadly 13:55 erle who is the guilty party that inserted it? 13:55 MTDiscord paramat 13:55 erle then ask paramat 13:55 MTDiscord who has since stopped being a MTG dev 13:55 erle and does not respond to questions? 13:55 erle have you checked if there are chatlogs from the time? 13:55 erle irc 13:56 erle if they don't go back far enough i might have some more btw 13:57 MTDiscord https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2018-02-02 13:57 MTDiscord https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2017-02-02 * 13:58 MTDiscord "will merge game#1542 in a moment since it's urgent" 13:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1542 -- Mapgen: Dedicated registrations for mgv6 blob ores by paramat 14:21 ROllerozxa wait wtf, so biomes, ores and decorations that have been registered for use with MTG but that doesn't depend on default has been broken for 5 years? 14:23 MTDiscord Basically 14:24 MTDiscord Well, broken depending on how mods are loaded 14:37 rubenwardy it happens that game mods load first most of the time 14:37 MTDiscord in other words, this is your brain on not using depends properly 14:39 rubenwardy yeah 15:07 MTDiscord Jordach: There's probably no reason for MTG to be clearing biomes, ores and decorations though. 17:07 BuckarooBanzai !up your-land.de 17:07 MinetestBot your-land.de:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) 17:07 BuckarooBanzai !up 109.205.180.172 17:07 MinetestBot 109.205.180.172:30000 seems to be down 18:45 Pexin .msg MinetestBot !up linux-forks.de 18:46 Pexin doh 18:55 MTDiscord Command sent from Discord by Niklp: 18:55 MTDiscord !up your-land.de 18:55 MinetestBot your-land.de:30000 is up (13ms) (IPv6) 18:56 MTDiscord Command sent from Discord by Niklp: 18:56 MTDiscord !up wuwe.freemyip.com 18:56 MinetestBot wuwe.freemyip.com:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 19:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Builtin: Allow to revoke unknown privileges 131c8614a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/1c8614ac9ad591f8025712deae26b572cdede50d (152022-04-24T19:08:33Z) 19:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04GoodClover -> 03minetest/minetest: Use mod names/titles instead of technical names (#12192) 13a13cf0e https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a13cf0e3ce1774f89e59a730aaadc5b997293f36 (152022-04-24T19:09:11Z) 19:11 MinetestBot 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix typo: vector.check() ought to be vector.check(v) 1348d1bca https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/48d1bca9b8f65ca9ecc62043609685a6858ee094 (152022-04-24T19:10:03Z) 19:11 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Oblomov -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix some textures not being sent correctly to older clients 1323f981c https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/23f981c45817664c53d70ef0d3bd5c1b46675641 (152022-04-24T19:10:23Z) 19:13 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Oblomov -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix worldaligned textures 13b55d7cd https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b55d7cd45a304a8a5b8337a3c61defb6e5c27dd9 (152022-04-24T19:11:24Z) 19:23 Oblomov kwoohoo 19:24 ROllerozxa zamn, merge time 21:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: DevTest: Add more test weapons and armorball modes (#11870) 1377325b9 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/77325b92fbe8235b5c2d8d1261ecd53e3385bab2 (152022-04-24T21:48:50Z) 21:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04GreenXenith -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix invalid queued package element and path (#12218) 13a617096 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a6170963b8ce5fee97326d639f6660f5097f78c9 (152022-04-24T21:49:07Z) 22:10 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix texture packs not showing as enabled in mainmenu 13480d5f2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/480d5f2d51ca8f7c4400b0918bb53b776e4ff440 (152022-04-24T22:09:23Z) 22:31 fluxionary any insight into https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11877 ? i think i've hit a wall