Time Nick Message 01:13 MinetestBot Samson1: Mar-17 07:18 UTC afaik: you can't load a WE schematic if there's an unknown node in it, the node has to be registered. an alternative would be to edit the WE file manually and replace the missing nodes with known ones 01:13 MTDiscord ^or just add a alias for the node 01:14 Samson1 BuckarooBanzai Thanks. :) 02:10 Samson1 What's the best server spawn location mod? 02:24 MTDiscord ...? 02:25 Samson1 Mod for setting server spawn. 02:25 MTDiscord static spawn or whatever its called, in minetest-mods 02:25 Samson1 I know there are so many but somehow I can't seem to find any haha! 02:26 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest-mods/spawn_command 02:26 Samson1 oh, thanks. 07:09 Guest7234 How can I register in the Minetest Wiki? 10:02 MTDiscord Forum thread 14:51 InFerNo__ erlehmann, they are too young to understand what an IP is or what it's relevance is, they can barely read, but what they can do and know how to do is to click a server in the list, because it's the same as connecting to our internal server 14:52 erlehmann InFerNo__ yeah, well, did my information help you? 14:52 erlehmann also note that the last connected server may be pre-filled 14:52 InFerNo__ that list will be cleared 14:53 InFerNo__ I'm configuring my network now to filter that URL 14:53 erlehmann what OS do your kids use anyway? 14:53 InFerNo__ Arch Linux 14:57 erlehmann InFerNo__ you can probably just use ufw in that case 14:57 erlehmann do they have unrestricted internet access otherwise though? 14:57 erlehmann i mean i'd probably want to ONLY allow the server you designated 14:58 erlehmann instead of ONLY blocking the server list 14:58 MTDiscord Yad: Re: skybox. I added a custom skybox in Blockbomber if you want to look at that example. 14:59 InFerNo__ no, they don't have unrestricted internet access 15:00 Yad theehymns: Thanks :) 15:03 erlehmann InFerNo__ then i suggest to block everything else for port 30000 except the server you want them to have access to 15:04 erlehmann ok i just realized that any port can be used 15:04 InFerNo__ I think blocking the list would have better results as servers can have non-standard ports 15:04 erlehmann i am a dumbo and should be quiet 15:05 InFerNo__ sure, they could "search" for other servers, but they're not computer-savvy enough yet to realise they can copy the info and paste it into the game 15:05 InFerNo__ worries for later 15:12 erlehmann “they're not computer-savvy enough” until the kindergarden age son learns how to use a tiling window manager to watch more youtube 15:12 erlehmann happened to friends of mine hehe 15:12 erlehmann maybe i misremember it, but i think it was like that 15:13 InFerNo__ they already figured out how to bypass the youtube domain block by watching the videos embedded in duckduckgo 15:13 erlehmann also the kid now only gets served single videos downloaded with youtube-dl 15:13 InFerNo__ that's how I also ended up fixing it, I download what they want and for everything else there's youtube kids 15:13 erlehmann what is youtube kids? 15:14 erlehmann last i checked, youtube video autoplay is horrible 15:14 InFerNo__ age restricted youtube with parental controls 15:14 InFerNo__ youtubekids.com 15:14 erlehmann oh, i have a question 15:15 erlehmann does this take into account age rating of the culture or jurisdiction you are in? 15:15 InFerNo__ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 15:15 erlehmann i mean stuff like “in europe violence is worse than sex, in US sex is worse than violence” (even if this is not accurate, you prob know what i mean) 15:16 erlehmann well, i guess you are in for a challenge once they figure out invidious 15:16 erlehmann countless hosts to block! 15:16 erlehmann :D 15:18 erlehmann as a kid i once figured out that buying stuff using a coupon somewhere applied the age of the person who bought the coupon (or no age?) 15:18 erlehmann this is how i got unreal tournament (1999) 15:43 definitelya Speaking of Invidious, this is bad: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=2M-L0yPbtPE 15:44 definitelya Watch out if your VPN routes through Russian/ Belarusian IPs. 15:47 erlehmann definitelya i am on a low bandwith connection, could you elaborate? 15:48 definitelya erlehmann: It's just the node-ipc dev now distributing malware through protest-ware. 15:49 erlehmann oh that assclown 15:49 definitelya :\ 15:49 erlehmann you know, when i thought NPM disasters could not get any worse than leftpad or colors, node-ipc came along lol 16:10 MTDiscord new NPM packages seemingly go rogue every time I open the fridge, wake me up when symfony goes rogue and puts malware in twig instead 17:21 mrkubax10 When game#2926 will be merged? No need to hurry, just asking 17:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2926 -- Polish translation by mrkubax10 17:32 ROllerozxa AFAIK the informal requirement for MTG translation PRs to be merged is that at least one other fluent speaker of the language reviews it first 17:37 mrkubax10 ah ok 17:39 MTDiscord Best we can do is basically check for typos etc. using Google Translate but that's about it. Would be great if you could get a fluent speaker to review it. 17:47 idfk does the latest minetest client work with older server versions that are also 5.x? 17:50 erlehmann usually that is the case, why? 18:01 idfk I ask as the LibrePlanet conference is coming up this weekend and they will host a Minetest server with the version available in Trisquel, which will be 5.1.1 18:02 idfk last year, I had to write a downgraded client package for Arch Linux as the latest version then did not work with the older server -- that was version 4.x 18:05 idfk wasn't sure if I had to make one again for this year... idk how backwards compatible server/client is for Minetest 5.x 18:07 MTDiscord theoretically MT follows semver 18:07 MTDiscord so a 5.5 client should be able to work with 5.x 18:07 MTDiscord 0.4.x and 5.x are incompatible 18:08 mrkubax10 for me 5.4 works with 5.5 server 18:08 Krock 5.5.0 must work with 5.0.0 clients, if not that's a bug to fix 18:08 Krock (also vice-versa) 18:09 idfk I'm asking about 5.5.0 client with a 5.1.1 server :) 18:10 sfan5 also works but you should really really upgrade the server 18:11 idfk if it was me, I'd be running the latest server... 5.1.1 is the "latest" on the FSF endorsed Trisquel OS 18:11 idfk 5.1.1 is from around Jan 24, 2020... so, I agree 18:12 sfan5 compiling from source isn't too hard 18:12 idfk again, it's not my server - I have no access to it.... we'll see how latest client works on their server :) 18:13 sfan5 oh 21:25 Philaire Good evening 21:25 Philaire is there a good place to ask for troubleshooting ? 21:26 Philaire For I don't understand why my game is so slow/lagging 21:27 Philaire for example, if I break a block on the client, the server takes the notice on the spot 21:27 Philaire (as seen by the commandline) 21:27 Philaire but the client takes up to ~20 seconds to update 21:27 Philaire causing unplayable lag 21:28 sfan5 version? OS? rough hardware specs? singleplayer? if not, the same info about the server 21:30 Philaire Right, let me gather that 21:31 Philaire For both, OS is Arch linux, version is both 5.5.0 21:32 Philaire for client : GTX 1080 x 32 GB RAM x i7 7700K 21:33 Philaire for server : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E8400 / 2GB ram & Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 21:33 Philaire At startup, there is little to no lag 21:34 Philaire but after one minute, everything lags 21:34 Philaire blocks aren't placed/mined 21:34 Philaire day/night cycle goes random, with weird back and forth time slices 21:35 sfan5 hm 21:35 Philaire Game is Mineclone 2 (but Minetest default has same behaviour) 21:35 Philaire and I'm using a docker linuxserver/minetest. 21:36 Philaire What do you think ? :/ 21:36 sfan5 was that the one that comes with postgres by default? 21:36 Philaire No, it's using SQLite. 21:37 Philaire Should I switch to POSTGRES? 21:38 sfan5 no, sqlite is supposed to work 21:38 sfan5 can you test one of these? https://github.com/minetest/minetest#docker 21:39 Philaire I can test without docker, if you want. 21:40 sfan5 sure 21:40 sfan5 taking that out of the equation would help 21:40 sfan5 if you're doing that you can also take a log of the server running with --verbose, maybe that contains a hint 21:41 Philaire Alright. 21:41 Philaire Can I do the same for the client ? 21:41 sfan5 sure but I don't think your client is the issue 21:41 Philaire like, seeing when a message is sent from the server to the client 21:41 Philaire and received by the client 21:44 Philaire Okay 21:45 Philaire it's even worse with the --verbose option 21:45 Philaire I'm stuck with a black screen 21:45 sfan5 one the client?! 21:45 sfan5 -e 21:45 Philaire Yep 21:45 Philaire Meanwhile, the server is spouting slow messages 21:45 Philaire like 21:45 Philaire 2022-03-18 19:59:51: INFO[Emerge-0]: initialEmerge: area: (-528,112,-448)(-417,223,-337)=112x112x112=1404928 (5MB) 21:45 Philaire 2022-03-18 19:59:51: INFO[Emerge-0]: initialEmerge: area: (-288,112,-448)(-177,223,-337)=112x112x112=1404928 (5MB) 21:46 Philaire 2022-03-18 19:59:51: INFO[Emerge-0]: initialEmerge: area: (-368,-48,-528)(-257,63,-417)=112x112x112=1404928 (5MB) 21:46 Philaire 2022-03-18 19:59:51: INFO[Emerge-0]: initialEmerge: area: (-288,-48,-528)(-177,63,-417)=112x112x112=1404928 (5MB) 21:46 sfan5 that's normal 21:46 Philaire Bad habits 21:46 Philaire got kicked for pasting a long message, sorry 21:46 sfan5 if the client is frozen what does/did it output? 21:47 Philaire Well, it locked my mouse, so I killed it 21:47 Philaire I'm restarting it rn 21:48 Philaire Well, on verbose mode, there's no update on the client side. 21:48 Philaire Just "2022-03-18 22:48:36: INFO[Main]: Client: avg_rtt=0.089 21:48 Philaire 2022-03-18 22:48:46: INFO[Main]: Client: avg_rtt=0.089" 21:49 sfan5 I think you skipped a few steps 21:49 Philaire Or mainly random updates 21:49 Philaire like 21:49 Philaire "2022-03-18 22:48:55: INFO[Main]: cmd 41 (TOCLIENT_TIME_OF_DAY) count 6 21:49 Philaire 2022-03-18 22:48:55: INFO[Main]: cmd 75 (TOCLIENT_HUDCHANGE) count 6 21:49 sfan5 you joined the server and then you get a black screen, right? 21:49 Philaire 2022-03-18 22:48:55: INFO[Main]: cmd 76 (TOCLIENT_HUD_SET_FLAGS) count 6 21:49 Philaire 2022-03-18 22:48:55: INFO[Main]: cmd 84 (TOCLIENT_CLOUD_PARAMS) count 4" 21:49 sfan5 ... 21:50 Philaire Yes. 21:50 sfan5 okay that makes more sense 21:50 Philaire With the dockerized version, I have at least the world, but with huuuuge lag 21:50 sfan5 can you pastebin the whole server log up to this point? 21:50 Philaire Sure. 21:50 Philaire It's huge 21:50 Philaire so it'll be only a portion 21:51 Philaire Thanks a lot for your time, sfan5. 21:51 Philaire https://pastebin.com/raw/zM2zf2dC 21:52 sfan5 there's some parts you could safely skip but to avoid the risk of something important being in there you should upload the entire file 21:52 sfan5 though that looks like a start 21:53 Philaire And here's the client view : https://pastebin.com/raw/vGfNbBLn 21:54 Philaire And the ping tests I did to check for lag https://pastebin.com/raw/8UjriC0U 21:55 Philaire What do you think is happenning/I did wrong? 21:56 sfan5 servers appears to be doing fine so the problem will be inbetween: the network 21:57 Philaire I moved the .minetest folder on the server on .minetest.bak to recreate one 21:57 sfan5 or should be at least, there some obscure known bugs in the network stack none of which match this situation 21:57 Philaire black screen problem got fixed 21:57 sfan5 ...did you configure anything of note in minetest.conf? 21:57 Philaire Nothing. 21:57 Philaire This is just blank test. 21:59 Philaire ah, now I have the lag problem again, though 21:59 sfan5 so what the server is seeing is high packet loss towards the client, resulting in nothing getting true 22:00 sfan5 ping is obviously fine as you showed, maybe UDP isn't, maybe large packets aren't 22:01 sfan5 s/true/through/ 22:01 Philaire UDP works fine 22:03 Philaire Is the mod code executed on client, server, or both ? 22:03 sfan5 exclusively server 22:03 Philaire Is the config powerful enough ? 22:05 sfan5 basic stuff should absolutely work 22:05 sfan5 tried confirming UDP performance using iperf3? 22:05 Philaire I'm testing it right now as we speak 22:08 Philaire Sounds good, no ? https://pastebin.com/raw/PTZVqXP7 22:10 sfan5 I see 10% packet loss there 22:10 Philaire Yeap. Is it that bad ? 22:11 sfan5 unusable levels of bad, I'd say 22:11 sfan5 for example if this happened with TCP you'd be instantly annoyed at how terrible the usability of an SSH session is 22:12 Philaire which is nuts, since my ssh session is perfectly stable 22:12 Philaire and I have no lag there 22:12 Philaire Both endpoints are on openvpn with a 500KiB/s bandwith 22:13 sfan5 QoS dropping packets? 22:13 Philaire Hmm? 22:13 Philaire Didn't get you there 22:14 sfan5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_shaping 22:14 sfan5 or 'Traffic policing' I guess going by the intro text 22:15 Philaire well, if it was the case, then my Mindustry server would suffer the same problems 22:15 sfan5 if that uses TCP by chance then perhaps not 22:16 sfan5 anyway I take the iperf results as a clear indicator that it's (thankfully) not Minetest's fault 22:17 Philaire Well 22:17 Philaire this makes it weirder 22:18 Philaire What are my chances to fix it ? 22:20 Philaire I mean, I could set up a minecraft server (which uses TCP) 22:20 Philaire but I don't want to go non OSS 22:22 sfan5 I have no good idea 22:22 sfan5 you can go into troubleshooting by staring at packet captures inside/outside ovpn to determine if the packets get lost there 22:23 Philaire I mean, it's common to have Minetest over VPN, right ? 22:23 MTDiscord not really 22:23 sfan5 the usecase I'd usually see if when you have a game that requires clients to be in the same LAN 22:23 sfan5 like the old days 22:24 sfan5 is* 22:24 Philaire problem is that we're behind multiple routers 22:24 Philaire so we have to use ovpn as a rendezvous 22:26 Philaire Just made another test 22:26 Philaire using a different host 22:26 Philaire and using a direct ip online with minetest on it 22:26 Philaire no vpn 22:26 Philaire same lag problem 22:26 Philaire And UDP drop is half https://pastebin.com/raw/ezCqa8Uj 22:27 Philaire the lag is actually *worse* 22:28 sfan5 the other unfortunate thing is Minetest's network stack is sensitive to packet loss so even that might not be low enough 22:28 Philaire well 22:28 Philaire in this test, both connections are using optic fiber 22:28 Philaire and disks are SSD's 22:29 Philaire There's something I don't get here 22:29 sfan5 why are those still limited to 1 Mbit/s? 22:29 Philaire I used the 1M limit 22:29 sfan5 oh inside iperf 22:29 sfan5 ? 22:29 Philaire yeah 22:30 Philaire I mean 22:30 Philaire without limit I have a 10% loss 22:30 Philaire and yet, all my other game servers work fine 22:31 Philaire I don't get it 22:31 Philaire either I'm extremely unlucky 22:31 Philaire either I'm doing something ultrabad 22:32 Philaire what's more insane is that whatever I do 22:32 Philaire the server registers 22:33 Philaire but there's no client feedback 22:33 sfan5 one-sided packet loss is possible 22:33 Philaire sure 22:34 Philaire but that's strangely and weirdly limited 22:34 Philaire I mean, it's just that specific side 22:34 Philaire no matter on what I launch it 22:36 Philaire ... okay 22:36 sfan5 hmm okay that iperf3 test may not be the best way 22:36 Philaire lag also happens when I try it on my raspi 22:36 Philaire which is directly on my lan 22:38 Philaire Is there an obvious bug on MT that I happen to be unfortunate enough to trigger 22:38 Philaire or am I doing something hecckin' wrong ? 22:38 sfan5 do you have a verbose log of that too? 22:38 sfan5 of the server 22:39 Philaire on the pi ? 22:39 sfan5 yes 22:40 Philaire no, but since I also have a lag when I do multiplayer on my local pc 22:40 Philaire I can post one 22:41 erlehmann any games or mods that spam network packets installed? 22:41 Philaire Just Mineclone2. 22:41 erlehmann is it version 0.71? 22:41 erlehmann oh yeah, also: disable weather 22:41 Philaire How can I do a) check version and b) disable weather ? 22:42 erlehmann weather is in minetest settings 22:42 erlehmann version, no idea, how did you get it? 22:42 Philaire ContentDB. 22:42 erlehmann recently? 22:42 erlehmann check in creative mode if you have a composter 22:42 erlehmann if yes, 0.72 22:42 Philaire Redownloaded it like ~45 minutes ago 22:42 erlehmann ok yeah 22:42 Philaire just deleted it 22:42 Philaire redownloading it now 22:42 erlehmann do you get this with any other game? 22:43 Philaire as in, minetest games or random games ? 22:43 erlehmann any other minetest game 22:43 Philaire Depends. Happens at random, increases as time increases. 22:45 erlehmann probably unrelated to your thing, but a short explanation of weather being bad: 1. minetest has particles and particle spawners 2. to my knowledge, rain is lots of particles, leading to a) network traffic bc particle spawners better b) client lag because minetest particle rendering makes way too many drawcalls 22:45 Philaire oooh, let me check, then 22:45 erlehmann the fix is ultimately, of course, to fix the weather in mineclone2, i believe cora (who is the maintainer of mineclone2) has also been working on that. 22:45 erlehmann do not just disable weather 22:46 Philaire weather is not implemented in Minetest (raw) ? 22:46 erlehmann rather, give yourself debug priv 22:46 erlehmann and then start and stop the weather in mineclone2 22:46 erlehmann if downfall (rain, snow) makes lag, then disable weather 22:46 Philaire You've lost me partly here 22:46 erlehmann type /help in the ingame chat 22:47 erlehmann and /grantme all 22:47 Philaire I grant myself debug privileges, is that wha- 22:47 Philaire ok, thanks 22:47 erlehmann that gives you all privileges 22:47 erlehmann then you can do /toggledownfall 22:47 erlehmann i think that makes it rain or snow or so? or makes it stop. 22:47 erlehmann minetest is an engine. no idea if minetest_game has weather, but you can download better weather mods from contentdb and mix them into your minetest_game stuff. 22:48 Philaire Alright. 22:48 erlehmann if the lag goes away when you disable weather, then it's mineclone2 being at fault here 22:48 Philaire Initial reason for me to use Minetest and not Minecraft is that it's a server in my office 22:49 Philaire I'm a CS teacher 22:49 Philaire got lots of students moaning (20s years old) that there are no good games on *nux 22:49 Philaire (which is wrong) 22:49 Philaire thought about setting up Minecraft with paper 22:49 erlehmann minetest is alright 22:50 Philaire found that it might be more educative to run Minetest, since it's FOSS 22:50 erlehmann the barrier to entry for modding is super low 22:50 Philaire and the API is clean too 22:50 Philaire no need to reflect on Java to work 22:50 Philaire just clean lua API 22:51 erlehmann debatable if it's clean :P 22:51 erlehmann but yeah, it's useful and easy 22:51 Philaire ask LexManos 'bout modding Minecraft, then 22:51 Philaire :P 22:51 Philaire though I was told, on some old and lost Discord server 22:51 Philaire that MT was quite laggy at times 22:51 Philaire and could have worse stats than MC 22:51 sfan5 oh man I thought I was going insane testing iperf3 with my server 22:51 erlehmann what happen 22:52 sfan5 it never went beyond 30Mb even though piping /dev/zero over ssh easily did 80Mb 22:52 Philaire tell me you have more than 10% loss 22:52 sfan5 turns out iperf tests upload from client -> server by default 22:52 erlehmann Philaire make this required reading lol https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html 22:52 erlehmann Philaire so about the weather 22:52 erlehmann does it fix anything? 22:53 Philaire well 22:53 Philaire lag happens even with no rain :( 22:53 Philaire evidence for satanic bug or ghostery increases :P 22:53 sfan5 Philaire: 0% actually but the reason I said "that iperf3 test may not be the best way" earlier is because you have the target bandwidth to match the actually available bandwidth 22:54 sfan5 s/have the/have to set the/ 22:54 Philaire ah 22:55 erlehmann Philaire consider the following: https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/src/branch/master/tools/analyze-packet-spam 22:55 erlehmann but hmm 22:55 erlehmann Philaire can you check out if the lag happens in, say, minetest_game? 22:55 Philaire It does, yes. 22:55 Philaire Just checked in case. 22:55 erlehmann ok well 22:56 sfan5 erlehmann: you can read the earlier logs, amount isn't the problem, something is wrong with the network or network stack 22:56 Philaire Happens slower, but it happens eventually. 22:56 erlehmann ok 22:56 Philaire sfan5 & erlehmann : problem is that it ALSO happens when I run on localhost 22:56 sfan5 when you run what on localhost 22:56 Philaire minetestserver 22:57 Philaire then I connect a couple of clients from localhost 22:57 Philaire what takes the biscuit is that I have *less* lag if I run that on Windows 22:57 erlehmann so there is no docker in this case? 22:58 Philaire No. 22:58 erlehmann oof 22:58 erlehmann then try without docker maybe 22:58 Philaire Already did 22:58 Philaire same problem 22:59 sfan5 at this point I suspect something is badly broken about your client computer 22:59 Philaire what's strange is that it's a MT-only behaviour 22:59 Philaire sfan5 : I would too, but it only manifests on MT 23:00 Philaire at this point, I think about putting a Voodoo statue on it 23:00 Philaire to see if anything improves 23:01 Philaire are there MT/MC2 servers for testing ? 23:01 sfan5 https://servers.minetest.net/ 23:02 sfan5 there's a bunch that say testing, even 23:02 Philaire well anyways 23:02 Philaire it's midnight here 23:02 Philaire been on it since 6 PM 23:03 Philaire going to hit the pillow 23:04 Philaire thank you guys for your help 23:04 Philaire I'll try again tomorrow 23:04 sfan5 good luck 23:04 Philaire perhaps even switch from ovpn to Wireguard 23:04 Philaire to see if it helps 23:05 Philaire (since we have a double firewall at office lab, but PC is a single machine on single vlan, so link on specific VPN, yada yada) 23:06 Philaire Good night, everyone. 23:50 erlehmann .help tell 23:51 erlehmann sfan5, how does the bot tell thing work? 23:51 erlehmann i want to tell Philaire that wireguard is much better than ovpn for games 23:52 wsor .tell erlehmann test 23:52 wsor !tell erlehmann test 23:52 MinetestBot wsor: I'll pass that on when erlehmann is around 23:53 erlehmann nothing happens 23:53 MinetestBot erlehmann: Mar-18 23:52 UTC test 23:53 wsor !tell erlehmann git good 23:53 MinetestBot wsor: I'll pass that on when erlehmann is around 23:53 erlehmann guess the bot is dead? 23:53 MinetestBot erlehmann: Mar-18 23:53 UTC git good 23:53 wsor uh no 23:53 erlehmann ohh 23:53 wsor either you have it blocked, or are missing the obvious 23:53 erlehmann wsor it has lag 23:53 erlehmann i have 7s lag here 23:54 erlehmann that's it 23:54 wsor seems you have a terrible internet connection atm then 23:56 erlehmann !tell Philaire wireguard is much better than ovpn for games because of its architecture 23:56 MinetestBot erlehmann: I'll pass that on when Philaire is around 23:58 erlehmann !tell Philaire you better join #mineclone2 if you want game-specific help some time later 23:58 MinetestBot erlehmann: I'll pass that on when Philaire is around