Time Nick Message 00:09 merazi hey 00:09 merazi remember me from yesterday? I had troubles with mineclone2 and the default mod 00:09 erlehmann d 00:09 erlehmann yes 00:10 merazi I solved the issue by installing the mod manually 00:10 erlehmann merazi did you find out problem 00:10 merazi installing the game* 00:10 erlehmann what was the mod 00:10 merazi It was a game, mineclone2 00:11 erlehmann yes but what required the default mod 00:12 merazi I'm not entirely sure, but I would guess it was something from mineclone2 00:12 merazi I understand games are the same as a mod pack 00:13 MTDiscord no, they arent 00:14 MTDiscord they go in there own dir, they have there own minetest.conf, also game.conf, have menu folder for backgrounds images, header, icon, and music 00:14 merazi mmmm 00:15 merazi Ooohhh ok, I found a "mods" dir in mineclone2 00:15 merazi there are e l0t of mods 00:18 erlehmann marazi yes there are 00:18 erlehmann so many mods :) 00:25 merazi so, I just removed mineclone2 using the ingame menu 00:26 merazi and then went to the game's website, downloaded the zip file and moved it to ~/.minetest/games/ 00:26 erlehmann what website did you use? 00:30 rubenwardy it shouldn't make a difference 00:30 rubenwardy all versions of mineclone2 don't have a default mod 00:31 merazi I went to https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/?protocol_version=39 00:31 erlehmann rubenwardy i wanted to know if it was git.minetest.org again ;) 00:32 rubenwardy merazi: that's the same as what the in client downloads 00:34 merazi weird 00:34 rubenwardy I suspect you're enabling different combinations of mods 00:34 merazi maybe something happened when I removed the game from the ingame menu 00:34 merazi I have all of them enabled 00:35 merazi Maybe the order in which the mods are being loaded changed (???) 00:59 MTDiscord does find_node_near accept decimals for the radius? 00:59 MTDiscord like, if I want to find a node within .3 m of the search center 00:59 MTDiscord because my position is derived from a player's position 01:01 rubenwardy radius is an integer, unfortunately 01:02 MTDiscord there is no find_nodes_near 01:02 MTDiscord there is find_nodes_in_radius 01:03 rubenwardy node, singular 01:03 MTDiscord ah, 01:03 rubenwardy minetest.find_node_near(pos, radius, nodenames[, search_center]) 03:27 MTDiscord blah, well thx 04:30 merazi good night people (it's pretty late where I live), have a wonderful rest of your day/night 11:36 independent56 How do i specify paths to a texture? I tried `tiles = {"stop/spam/" .. texture .. ".billboard.png"},`, but it can't find the texture, despite the folders being named perfectly. 11:43 kabou putting the png files in mod/texture , then mod code can refer to "bla.png" without explicit path i think 11:44 kabou independent56 mod/textures i mean 11:45 independent56 So basically if there were textures in textures/stop/spam (as in my case), then a simple {texture}, with texture being the name of a png file in textures/stop/spam, it would still find it? 11:46 kabou dunno if it works with subdirs, you should try 11:47 kabou it might and it might not 11:47 independent56 Yes, it works!! 11:47 kabou cool 11:48 independent56 I used a python script to generate the textures. --> https://gitlab.com/56independent/britsignals/-/blob/master/textures/stop/generator.py 11:48 independent56 Thats why it's called stop/spam 11:48 independent56 Just look at the fnction calls at the bottom 0_0 11:49 kabou good thing i'm not from california.. 11:52 independent56 ? 11:52 independent56 I'm not from california either 11:52 independent56 oh i get it now 11:52 independent56 It's a prop 65 joke 11:52 * kabou hands independent56 a cup of coffee 11:58 independent56 I ran out of space on my server because of automated backups 11:58 independent56 :-| 11:59 independent56 I need to upgrade my storage to 1 tb 11:59 MTDiscord hands independent56 some biscuits 12:00 independent56 thanks 12:00 independent56 That's why i couldn't join my server 12:00 MTDiscord Enjoy, your meal! 12:08 Parnikkapore_m independent56: Hi, I somehow always got killed while touring the mesecons zone of the NEOM museum (NEOM3?). What's up with that? 12:08 Parnikkapore_m Oh he's offline 12:09 * Parnikkapore_m has to remind himself to talk on IRC on IRC instead 12:30 independent56 Hi 12:30 definitelya hey 12:30 independent56 .Thanks for telling me 12:43 erlehmann rubenwardy it looks to me that the portal thing will be resolved without drama bc of kay27 finding schematics the wrong approach and writing a generic function to generate ruined portals or so. which would be great, because that means we have more diversity in approaches! 12:44 erlehmann at least this is how i interpret this image: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/attachments/3e26468a-29bb-4721-ad33-7d4e2f2ce72a 12:45 erlehmann i think placing big schematics may not be compatible with his mapgen or something. no idea. 12:45 erlehmann but making a generic function is super interesting 12:46 rubenwardy looks to me that you already created drama 12:46 erlehmann did i? 12:47 erlehmann honestly, the mcl* thing has been low-key drama between several people with strong opinions on things ever since i was aware of it 12:47 erlehmann i don't think i made it worse 12:47 erlehmann as long as we can still collaborate 12:48 erlehmann i mean no one has banned anyone from each others bug tracker so far ;) 12:48 rubenwardy you made it worse by bringing the drama into here, and trying to hold your code hostage 12:48 rubenwardy it's not productive 12:48 erlehmann well, you made it clear that legally, i can't. and i think it was the wrong approach. 12:50 erlehmann i think the right approach is to not publish things that can be taken that way. 12:50 erlehmann i.e. make sure that at every step the published thing is of high enough quality that people will not complain. 13:05 MTDiscord how many mineclones are there now? 4 or something? 13:07 erlehmann it's mineclone2, mineclonia and mineclone5. mineclone2 is “EXACTLY LIKE MINECRAFT”, mineclonia is “STABILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FEATURES”, mineclone5 is “merge all the things, we can fix the bug slater, also replace the mapgen and generally WOW ISN'T THIS COOL” 13:07 erlehmann i would say all three have a justification to exist 13:08 erlehmann though i am, of course, a bit biased about all of them 13:12 erlehmann Sublayer plank have any other games had this level of fragmentation so far? 13:14 independent56 And now theres a mineclone which has a bigger community then minetest and uses java 13:14 independent56 Forgot what it's called. Something like Minework or something 13:15 erlehmann well, mineclonia and mineclone5 kinda depart from minecraft imitation at key points 13:15 erlehmann or at kay points, hehehehe 13:15 MTDiscord erlehmann: lol, minecraft maybe? it feels like there's a sizable community around every single major version of minecraft going back to even beta or alpha 13:16 erlehmann Sublayer plank oh but that is probably because of gameplay differences, not differences in philosophy 13:16 erlehmann about how to develop 13:22 MTDiscord true 13:24 definitelya If they aren't careful, Mineclone5 will become the next MTG in the Minecl- universe at this rate. 13:25 MTDiscord how so? 13:25 erlehmann i doubt it 13:25 MTDiscord mineclone5 has... some kind of goal at least, it knows what it wants to be 13:25 erlehmann i think mineclone2 and mineclonia are more compatible with each other than either one is with mineclone5 at this point 13:26 definitelya Sublayer plank: They'd have many bad decisions deeply ingrained in the game; and then it would be too late to save it. 13:26 erlehmann the goal is of kay to put as many cool things into it 13:26 erlehmann i think there are a bunch of bad decisions already, but it's not *my* game so all i can do is tell people 13:26 definitelya Good goal, you just have to be wary. 13:26 definitelya erlehmann: mhm 13:27 erlehmann kay knows what he is doing, he just values features over everything else it seems 13:28 erlehmann take for example, aligning the mcl_maps on a 128×128 grid. kay thinks it is stupid because he once wanted to make a map with a village in the middle and also because it does not conform to minetest chunk size. 13:28 erlehmann so he wants to align his maps on the player position 13:28 erlehmann other people, like me, think it is bad, because that way it becomes very hard to put maps in item frames next to each other and have them line up 13:28 erlehmann funnily enough, the mineclone2 purists agree with me here beause coincidentally i advocate the way that is EXACTLY LIKE MINECRAFT hehe 13:29 erlehmann but you see, to him maps in item frames are not as important as to me 13:30 erlehmann and also his changes conflict somewhat with changes i have already made that add new features, but he knows that and probably thinks those changes are not cool enough 13:30 erlehmann so yeah, different goals 13:30 erlehmann that's all 13:31 MTDiscord and in other new mineclonia is a dieing project, falling way behind the other 2 versions in terms of features 13:32 MTDiscord since users want features, hence why mineclone5 is popular 13:32 erlehmann look, it does not matter to me what you think. i prefer to not lag to death because someone placed a billion echests. 13:32 erlehmann the users who use mineclonia value stability and low lag over features. that's all. 13:32 erlehmann you can have both kind of users. 13:32 erlehmann i honestly don't care about people who think features are more important than not having crashes. they can go play mineclone5. it is good that i can say that! 13:33 definitelya "It's not a bugfix PR, it's a feature!" 13:33 erlehmann don't understand me wrong, kay fixes bugs all the time 13:33 erlehmann but he also adds new features in the bugfixes 13:33 erlehmann possibly creating new bug sources 13:34 erlehmann it is only logical that that way he gets new features faster out the door 13:34 erlehmann not everyone has to do the tradeoffs the same way 13:43 erlehmann Jonathon i wonder if you consider “can not see entities being on fire in mcl2 >0.71 unless you have the mandatory CSM installed” a feature. i consider it an anti-feature. 14:07 erlehmann by the way, i do not like kay27 really, but i think if there is ever a chance for him to influence how map generator works in future, it might be a good idea. 14:07 erlehmann he has identified and worked around difficult problems 14:07 erlehmann only he is doing it in lua, very slow, also still not 100% reliable 14:08 erlehmann since he ultimately has to code around engine bugs to prevent mapgen griefing 14:36 MTDiscord oh yeah also, has mineclonia more or less replaced mineclone2? mcl2 seems to be a bit dead now... 14:37 MTDiscord because if I understand correctly mineclonia has the same version goal of staying at 1.12 14:37 rubenwardy mineclonia has the goal of staying still 14:37 erlehmann not really 14:40 erlehmann cora has taken over mcl2 maintainership recently after fleck asked her. i think it is not salvage-able without a lot of effort, but she is trying to fix it. most importantly, reset the mobs to a state that they were in mcl2 0.71 and mineclonia, also merge the performance fixes from mineclonia. 14:40 kabou afaik mineclone2 has dumped the 1.12 only requirement 14:40 kabou the goal was just to add features carefully 14:40 erlehmann if we have a 1.12 only requirement in the mineclonia readme, then only bc we have not replaced it 14:40 kabou but about a year ago the mobs got severely fuxxored over 14:40 kabou and then drama ensued 14:40 erlehmann and mineclone5 and mineclonia ensued 14:41 kabou and leading devs dropped out 14:41 kabou kay returned and forked mineclone5 14:41 erlehmann and clamity server switched to mineclonia 14:41 kabou recently mineclone2 got an new project lead, cora 14:41 kabou we're working on things 14:42 erlehmann i hope it gets into a playable state again 14:42 kabou AFAICS the mioneclonia policy is "erlehmann's favo server cannot ever change" 14:42 erlehmann kabou lol 14:42 erlehmann it's more like: “no feature justifies adding new bugs or crashes” 14:42 kabou clamity does not exist anymore does it? 14:42 erlehmann and “mandatory reviews for everything, however long it takes” 14:43 kabou isn't it now oysterity? 14:43 erlehmann yes, clamity was murdered by a rogue admin 14:43 kabou doesn't cora run oysterity? 14:43 erlehmann yes 14:43 erlehmann she does 14:43 kabou well expect a change over to mineclone2 then at some time 14:43 kabou i guess 14:43 erlehmann i hope not, it is so buggy 14:44 kabou why would she stick with mineclonia? 14:44 erlehmann well currently she is sticking with her own branch 14:44 erlehmann because she is unhappy with how long reviews take. 14:44 kabou reviews or testing? 14:45 erlehmann but if you have looked at mcl2, reviews *always* take forever. or look at minetest, which has much more reviewers. 14:45 kabou the revert is just too huge to review 14:45 kabou but how many are testing? 14:45 kabou you're not, erlehmann 14:45 erlehmann i am testing stuff all the time. 14:45 kabou your own stuff 14:45 erlehmann how do you think these bug fixes and test structures come to be? 14:46 erlehmann and the testing instructions for which i am ridiculed 14:46 erlehmann testing has to be included in reviews. otherwise you join what my friend calles the “LGTM community” 14:46 erlehmann where you just comment LGTM because the code looks like it works 14:46 erlehmann but no one ever even started the game 14:46 erlehmann and boom crash lol 14:47 erlehmann look, it is a spectrum. i put quality above everything else. kay puts features above everything else. cora is somewhere in between. 14:47 kabou whatever. did you check if hoppers suck in items placed inside in mineclonia yet? 14:47 erlehmann what do you mean? 14:47 kabou https://mister-muffin.de/p/Rrtk.png 14:48 erlehmann i throw an item on top of the hopper and it gets sucked in? 14:48 kabou see the flower item inside the top hopper? 14:48 kabou it does not get sucked in 14:48 kabou it should 14:48 kabou btw the hopper has an empty slot 14:49 erlehmann i just tested it. it works. but we never modified hoppers in mineclonia. 14:49 kabou hmm 14:49 erlehmann if i have to take a guess, it would be “hey, this is one of the things that got an LGTM approval and was never even tested a tiny bit” 14:50 erlehmann users hate their *existing* machinery breaking down *much* more than not getting new features btw 14:51 kabou erlehmann just checked and indeed, in mineclonia it works 14:51 kabou time to make an issue 14:51 erlehmann see, that is the value of not breaking things all the time 14:51 erlehmann stuff keeps working 14:51 rubenwardy we have release processes and devops to prevent these issues 14:52 rubenwardy users want new features, and they also don't want bugs 14:52 rubenwardy "we" meaning the software engineering industry 14:52 erlehmann rubenwardy the process in mineclonia is the same as in minetest. convince one or two members of the team that your change is good. and you have to give a test plan, i guess that diverges. 14:52 kabou first im filing an issue then look at git blame 14:52 erlehmann but i heard that if stuff keeps working it makes something a dead project! 14:53 erlehmann the release process for mineclonia will be “speedrun the game a bunch” hehe 14:54 erlehmann kabou see this kind of thing basically happened at mcl2 all the time and that lead to ppl being fed up with it. i hope cora can make sure it does not happen again. 14:55 kabou well lets look at git blame where stuff got moved about lately 14:55 erlehmann rubenwardy it is trivial to add new features without adding new bugs. it is only that it is *work*. 14:55 rubenwardy it's definitely not trivial 14:55 erlehmann given the structure of mineclone2, it is. 14:56 erlehmann most features are neatly separated. 14:56 erlehmann and i believe mineclonia has a history of 10 months or so of fixing bugs and adding stuff without adding new game-breaking bugs or crashes. 14:57 erlehmann the downside is that a PR takes more than a “LGTM” to be approved 14:59 erlehmann rubenwardy what i mean with trivial is the complexity, not the amount. the complexity of testing is relatively low. it is a lot of work. maybe that was a misunderstanding based on how i phrased it? 20:22 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua API documentation: Various fixes (#12059) 13f7311e0 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f7311e0d97cb89bcb197a3e6b89e039151bb510f (152022-02-23T20:21:37Z) 22:08 kabou question about InvRef:allow_metadata_inventory_put() 22:09 kabou is it called only when a player puts items in the inventory or also when a mod makes an InvRef:add_item() call ? 22:09 kabou because the latter seems to not work for me ;-/ 22:11 kabou same with InvRef:on_metadata_inventory_put() 22:11 kabou doesn't trigger either on mod initiated add_item() 22:12 kabou lua_api.txt is not specific about the context where these callbacks are run 22:12 sfan5 mod calls don't trigger these, no 22:14 kabou bummer 22:14 kabou thanks for answering 22:15 kabou now I get to rethink stuff 22:16 kabou sfan5: wouldn't it be useful if these callbacks did trigger on mods? 22:16 kabou or does that open cans of worms? 22:16 kabou or was it simply never considered as a possibility? 22:27 MTDiscord if your writing a game, just override the method to call the callbacks 22:28 kabou oo, that's interesting, hadn't considered that 22:29 kabou you mean overriding add_item() ? 22:29 MTDiscord yeah 22:29 MTDiscord you can do it in a mod, but then everyone needs to dep on you 22:30 MTDiscord for example in some content ive made ive overriden methods to take a player name or player data 22:30 sfan5 kabou: what would the `player` argument contain? 22:30 kabou mineclone2 has CORE mods 22:30 sfan5 passing this on needs explicit support and I guess it wasn't considered 22:30 kabou sfan5: 'nil' ? 22:31 MTDiscord or you can set up for fake players which is a semi accepted standard 22:31 sfan5 well if a mod does somethingh in response to a player action wouldn't that be wrong? 22:32 kabou `player` would only be `nil` if the trigger for any invref callbacks was a mod 22:33 kabou so the mod would have to check `player` value 22:33 kabou Jonathon not sure how that fake player thing would work 22:34 kabou never seen an example of it 22:34 MTDiscord the standard is there is a .fake_player property or whatever mods can check 22:34 MTDiscord *semi standard 22:34 kabou is it documented somewhere 22:34 kabou ? 22:35 MTDiscord no, its a community thing 22:35 MTDiscord i think wuzzy does checks for it 22:35 kabou can you point me to an implementation? 22:36 kabou wuzzy is a creative guy 22:36 kabou he did lots of trickery in mineclone 22:36 MTDiscord hbhunger 22:36 kabou but no fake player stuff afaik 22:37 MTDiscord and mineclones code is rather bad 22:37 MTDiscord fake player https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11477 relevant issue 22:38 MTDiscord anyways, as much as fake player is used, i would still advocate that nil is the more proper way to do it 22:39 MTDiscord https://repo.or.cz/minetest_hbhunger.git/blob/HEAD:/hunger.lua#l140 22:39 MTDiscord is_fake_player there we go 22:39 kabou tnx! 22:40 kabou oh i c it is not a wuzzy thing, it comes from pipeworks 22:41 MTDiscord its used in a variety of different mods