Time Nick Message 00:01 MTDiscord erlehmann: alright, here it is: https://gist.github.com/appgurueu/b6fab0f1e11e394705a6bb216507cf32 00:01 MTDiscord note that this uses a lazily initialized lookup tables, meaning textures will be read as the need for their average color arises, and not at all at startup 00:03 MTDiscord Also this made me realize I was using "r" instead of "rb" to read textures in Epidermis. Fixed. 00:03 erlehmann oh lol neat 00:03 erlehmann > textures will be read as the need for their average color arises 00:03 erlehmann this kills the map creation performance 00:04 MTDiscord note that after the first map creation, the values will be cached until shutdown 00:04 erlehmann only for the nodes on the map, but yeah 00:05 erlehmann i could just render a dummy map lol 00:05 MTDiscord if more than 20 textures must be read for the map, yeah, might make sense to load all at startup 00:05 erlehmann well the thing is 128x128 00:06 MTDiscord To initialize it all at startup, do for filename in pairs(modlib.minetest.media.paths) do local _ = average_texture_color[filename] end 00:07 erlehmann lol why does the colors.json contain an entry for doc_basics_gameplay_hades.png 00:08 erlehmann definitely more than 20 lol 00:08 erlehmann thank you luatic 00:09 erlehmann add_scalar(0.5):floor() 00:09 erlehmann hey 00:09 erlehmann that introduces a bias 00:09 erlehmann not sure if relevant 03:25 erlehmann banners can now be used for markers on maps :) https://mister-muffin.de/p/6yYp.jpg 06:19 erlehmann now even better banners on maps :3 https://mister-muffin.de/p/gGdh.jpg 06:27 erlehmann (they work in item frames and have a help message) 10:37 MTDiscord erlehmann: I should maybe add alpha weighing 10:53 MTDiscord erlehmann: Fixed the gist, now weighs by alpha and doesn't attempt to load non-PNG media. 12:31 MTDiscord @Luatic You can DEFINITELY change max_users on the fly I did that back in 0.4.X when suddenly all those 3rd-party apps connected and my active userbase couldn't play anymore 12:32 MTDiscord I changed it from 40 to 60 or 65 without restart...and later back to 40 12:32 MTDiscord Yes? 12:33 MTDiscord I was saying you couldn't change dedicated_server_step on the fly 12:33 MTDiscord I just read something else, let me recheck 12:35 MTDiscord Nvm I skipped the 'don't' it seems, sorry 12:37 independent56 What's a normal size for map.sqlite on servers? Mine is 8 gb, from 4 gb back in 2021-11 12:37 independent56 One day, it'll hit the 10 gb mark 12:41 independent56 I still can't belive i have so little space left on the server. Time for some spring cleaning 12:43 independent56 Where is tunnler's abyss's linetrack hosted? 12:46 MTDiscord The bigger it gets the smaller it grows usually 12:46 MTDiscord Not smaller slower* 12:54 independent56 Why? Because the probablity of finding a random co-ordinate and it being unloaded decreases? 12:56 independent56 It makes an exponantial graph with time on the y axis and size on the x XD 12:57 independent56 A lot of space on my server was taken by massive amounts of logs XD 12:57 independent56 36gb of terse .txt from 2021-11 12:57 MTDiscord Query time complexity should only grow logarithmically with a decent DBMS like SQLite 12:58 independent56 hmm 13:49 independent56 How many lawyers play minetest? 1%? 0.5%? 13:54 definitelya No clue mate 14:25 MTDiscord 100% of minetest players play minetest 14:26 InFerNo__ Does updating a server make changes to the world? I did the update and now it's like I'm a new player and need to "register" again 14:29 sfan5 sort of but what you're describing is not intended nor expected behaviour 14:29 InFerNo__ looks like a new world, I went to the coords me and the kids had our "base" on, but it's just completely different 14:30 sfan5 by which means did you update? 14:31 InFerNo__ package manager 14:31 sfan5 distro? 14:31 InFerNo__ arch 14:33 sfan5 if you use the systemd service you should have world folders inside /var/lib/minetest/ 14:33 sfan5 you might have ended up with the wrong one 14:35 InFerNo__ perhaps, the world folder is still there, the world.mt file is the old one, but the others have a a very recent modif date/time 14:35 InFerNo__ and since the service is tied to the name of the world folder, it's hard to be mistaken 14:35 sfan5 true 14:36 sfan5 so you didn't find two worlds in there? 14:36 InFerNo__ can you define "world" in this case? 14:36 InFerNo__ what should I look for specifically 14:37 sfan5 ls /var/lib/minetest/*/world.mt | wc -l basically 14:38 InFerNo__ returns 1 14:39 InFerNo__ /var/lib/minetest/.minetest/worlds/world also contains world.mt file though 14:39 sfan5 that sounds promising 14:39 InFerNo__ the players.sqlite file contains the usernames 14:39 InFerNo__ :-) 14:40 sfan5 stop the server, move that to where the new one used to be and then check back 14:40 sfan5 (take a backup of both just in case) 14:57 InFerNo__ thanks sfan5 14:58 InFerNo__ According to my self-made documentation, the world used to reside in /var/lib/minetest/.minetest/worlds/world, but now it (needs to) reside(s) in /var/lib/minetest/minetest-server (where "minetest-server" is the name of the config file and the systemd unit) 14:59 InFerNo__ I copied it over after careful verification and everything is working again 15:48 Andrew Hmm... 15:48 Andrew src/client/content_cao.cpp:23:10: fatal error: ITextSceneNode.h: No such file or direct 15:48 Andrew Anyone got this before? 15:49 InFerNo__ I have updated Minetest 5.4.1 to 5.5.0 on my kids' ARM device, but now the screen stays black, does anyone have a tip? 15:49 Krock downgrade? no idea. needs logs to figure out what could be wrong 15:50 Krock Andrew: Irrlicht versions and Minetest version mismatch? 15:50 InFerNo__ can give 'm, got one of their computers ssh'd right now 15:51 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12035#issuecomment-1027306600 there's also this 15:51 Krock although not pitch black 15:51 Andrew Krock: Might be, thanks 15:51 InFerNo__ the menu doesn't even load, it's just a black screen with a window border 15:53 InFerNo__ debug.txt only contains 2022-02-05 11:54:56: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/home/maxim/.minetest/worlds/Maxim] 15:53 InFerNo__ which exists 15:54 Krock and that's even before the main menu? 15:55 Krock minetest.conf -> debug_log_level = verbose 15:55 Krock this will generate you more detailed logs 15:56 InFerNo__ I just removed minetest.conf but it doesn't even recreate 15:57 Krock can you start a server from command line? 15:57 Krock if that works, the issue would be really somewhere in the graphics engine init 15:58 InFerNo__ ok, it created te ck 15:58 Krock in which case you could run Minetest in gdb, then break and backtrace to see where it's stuck 15:58 InFerNo__ ok, it created the conf when I ended the process 16:01 Guest3456 how do I make clean in mt source? 16:02 Guest3456 like get rid of all compiled objects? 16:03 Guest3456 I understand that there are incremental build issues 16:03 InFerNo__ verbose log gave me this: https://pastebin.com/raw/26MdhN7v 16:04 Guest3456 I want to rebuild mt with newest git source and I did a git pull on the three that I still have from 5.5-dev 16:04 InFerNo__ do you have open changes? 16:04 Guest3456 I did a build in it and now I would like to clean that tree from the previous build before starting a new one 16:06 Krock InFerNo__: at least the logs indicate no issue.. which is unfortunate 16:06 InFerNo__ does make clean do anything? 16:06 Krock "make clean" removes the cached build files 16:06 Krock and lets you rebuild everything from zero 16:07 InFerNo__ not the bins? 16:08 Guest3456 make: *** No rule to make target 'clean'.  Stop. 16:08 Guest3456 Is that perhaps because the tree is already clean? 16:08 Guest3456 I can also not find any CMakecache.txt 16:09 InFerNo__ no, I don't think so, I have another project repository and I think we have a "clean" target in the makefile 16:09 Guest3456 well, there is no Makefile in my tree atm 16:09 Guest3456 I guess it is clean then 16:10 Guest3456 also, I am building a debian package, so it builds in the debian/ subdir 16:10 InFerNo__ I can't help you then, unfortunately, I don't know about Minetest development, I'm here to resolve other issues :) 16:10 Guest3456 I did debian/rules clean and that cleaned up the debian build area 16:10 Guest3456 I'm gonna wing it 16:50 Guest3456 appguru ? 16:50 appguru yes? 16:50 Guest3456 how can I pull your max objects commit into my local minetest clone? 16:51 Guest3456 I'm not very proficient with git 16:51 Guest3456 instead of wrestling 2 hours with git manuals, maybe you can give me a helpful pointer 16:51 Guest3456 I have a tree with minetest master 16:52 appguru simplest way to go is probably https://github.com/cli/cli 16:52 Guest3456 and a tree that I cp -al  -'ed 16:52 appguru and then just "gh pr checkout " 16:53 Guest3456 hmmm, is there a way to add your branch to my second tree using bare git cmds? 16:54 Guest3456 so I can run diff -ruw on both trees and update the debian/patches dir 16:54 Guest3456 so that I can have your patch in every debian build I will do of minetest git 16:54 Guest3456 (that is my aim with it) 16:55 MTDiscord well, the "git-only" way would be to add my repo as a remote and pull the branch 16:56 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12055.patch might work as-is 16:56 sfan5 if not you can easily edit it to match what debian's scripts expect 16:56 lagash I've looked at https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/issues/229, but it appears to only concern metapackages. How would I get the list of mods that hard depend (or even optionally depend) on, say, unifieddyes? 16:57 Guest3456 ooh thanks sfan5 ! 16:58 Guest3456 that's exactly what I wanted 16:58 lagash I suppose I could do it by querying the API, but perhaps there's a data dump somewhere? I assume it's not in the repo there. 17:07 MTDiscord Ladash, go to the package, go to what it provides, click a item, shows you what you want 17:11 Guest3456 sfan5 that direct patch download, is it documented somewhere?  I could not find any reference to it on the github page for that pr 17:11 Guest3456 it's very nifty 17:11 sfan5 someone in the github docs, no direct links I'm aware of 17:11 sfan5 somewhere* 17:12 Guest3456 in any case thanks a million for mentioning it! 17:12 Guest3456 helped me to postpone wrestling with git innards 17:13 Guest3456 and appguru thanks also 17:13 Guest3456 I have a hunch why my chickens kept dissapearing 17:14 Guest3456 or is that unrelated? 17:17 rubenwardy lagash: https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/unifieddyes/ 17:17 rubenwardy remember that mods don't depend on specific packages, they depend on mod names 17:17 rubenwardy a metapackage is CDB's name for a mod name 17:18 lagash rubenwardy: thanks, I just figured that out, lol 17:22 lagash What would be a more popular/maintained alternative to colouredstonebricks mod? 17:24 lagash letters optionally depends on it 17:28 Krock I think there's one mod from Tenplus1 or VE that uses dyes 17:30 Krock !mod cblocks 17:30 MinetestBot Krock: Coloured Blocks [cblocks] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13303 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/cblocks 17:32 Krock it might make sense to look out for unmaintained mods which could be moved into the minetest-mods group for maintenance 17:53 MTDiscord >moved to minetest-mods group for maintenance, funny considering its basically dead as well 18:06 Calinou what alternatives does minetest-mods have? 18:06 Calinou I'd say it's still better than keeping the mod in your own user/organization 18:09 MTDiscord mt-mods 18:12 rubenwardy isn't that just for buck's mods? It's a confusing name as well 18:12 MTDiscord no 18:13 MTDiscord right now its VE mods, bucks, dead minetest-mods, and a few other random ends 18:28 definitelya I just fixed minetest-mods/frame mod by changing all mentions of "doors_blank.png" to "blank.png", finally. 18:28 definitelya I really need to learn git a bunch. 18:41 lagash Looking through the Lua API, I can see it mention on_rightclick pointed_thing can be nil, but what about clicker? Is that always non-nil or do I have to check for it? 18:42 MTDiscord it can be nil if another mod is calling your on_righclick 19:10 erlehmann lagash better check it. something can click and then vanish i think. 19:11 erlehmann people usually think it is impossible, but i think there is like 1 frame or so where it can happen. 19:11 erlehmann don't believe me, of course, try to make it happen yourself 21:19 erlehmann rubenwardy i understand that the mumble positional audio CSM uses the log message method that you suggested. it seems to be fine. thanks! 21:20 erlehmann what is a good programming language that also works easily on windows? i mean i need to write a very small program that reads the logs and makes the hardware rumble/vibrate/whatever you call it. 21:22 erlehmann i can already make the thing go BRRRRR with python. does anyone have experience with python on windows? like how hard is it. 21:34 rubenwardy python is as easy as any other 21:34 rubenwardy anaconda helps install and manage environments 21:38 erlehmann also regarding your sdl question, it seems to be that sdl can work, but the device support is limited 21:38 rubenwardy work for what? 21:38 rubenwardy oh rumble 21:38 erlehmann i'll add that to the thread some time 21:38 erlehmann as soon as i figured it out 21:39 erlehmann see, the problem is that i do not have hardware right now that can rumble 21:39 erlehmann and a friend of mine has it, but is on windows 21:39 rubenwardy Remember Zipf's law 21:39 rubenwardy Just supporting the top 5 devices will allow support for the vast majority of users 21:39 erlehmann i showed him the ouch csm https://github.com/Git-Forked/ouch/blob/master/init.lua 21:40 erlehmann well to be fair, almost all gamers i know use linux exclusively and otherwise maybe consoles 21:40 erlehmann one uses windows and laments the fact that her games work *better* (like higher fps) on linux, but battlefield or whatever dectects running it on linux as cheating 21:41 erlehmann while a bunch of cheats on windows are not detected (or so she told me) 21:42 erlehmann rubenwardy the device that is most common in my circle of friends is most likely not supported by sdl, bc proprietary protocols 21:43 erlehmann i remember reading up on how vendors do this and apparently there are even devices which require you to have a dongle to connect them … but you can also buy it without the dongle. sooo … some ppl figured out the dongles speak bluetooth and now no one needs to buy a dongle. 21:43 erlehmann i forgot the name 21:43 rubenwardy which device? 21:43 rubenwardy I would guess that SDL just talks to the driver, which implements the device 21:44 erlehmann the problem is having a driver in the first place, and such vendor shenanigans make that more complicated 21:52 erlehmann well, the device in particular does not matter, SDL is indeed limited by the driver 21:52 erlehmann https://old.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1im3nr/has_anyone_managed_to_support_rumbleforce/ 21:52 erlehmann > SDL works with my Dualshock3 (emulating X360) on Windows, just not Linux. 21:52 erlehmann stuff like that 21:52 erlehmann i mean the thread is a bit old 21:53 rubenwardy I have a Steam Deck preordered, I want to modify Minetest to run well on there 21:54 erlehmann hmm, does minetest use sdl already? would be nice to just have a rumble function in the engine instead having to go through client mods. 21:54 rubenwardy not yet 21:54 rubenwardy will do soon 21:54 rubenwardy well 21:54 erlehmann i am asking bc additional dependencies are frowned upon 21:54 rubenwardy we plan to use SDL for input in the future, some work has been done on it 21:54 erlehmann might work better than the irrlicht mess ig 21:55 rubenwardy yeah 21:55 rubenwardy SDL is super well supported 21:55 erlehmann i remember when v-rob was surprised that i had two thinkpads in which the same letter gave irrlicht different OEM-whatever codes 21:55 erlehmann or maybe one was on reform2, i do not remember 21:57 erlehmann i am still concerned that minetest OGLES2 will not run on the mali GPU 21:57 erlehmann it is literally conformant 21:58 erlehmann i guess hecks “i'll just use OGLES2, everything supports it” needs two things: real world tests (i have hardware on which minetest looks bonkers with OGLES2) and actually limiting yourself to what OGLES2 guarantees 21:58 erlehmann the second thing is probably way harder 21:59 erlehmann in general, ppl with good hardware – especially game devs – are *really* unwilling to restrict themselves or put more effort into something if it runs on their devices :/ 21:59 sfan5 minetest's shader support is extremely basic shit 22:00 sfan5 and if that doesn't run on some awful embedded gpu then good luck doing anything useful with it 22:00 sfan5 so quit whining that devs won't restrict themselves to unreasonable constraints 22:01 erlehmann sfan5 the main problem is calling it OGLES2, really 22:02 erlehmann like if you are not adhering to the guaranteed minimums, then maybe chose something more advanced anyway? 22:02 erlehmann and yes i know that drivers are, in general, shit 22:02 erlehmann GPU drivers i mean 22:05 erlehmann i see the bug no different than the backface culling thing, which was triggered by minetest. but ultimately a driver problem. 22:05 erlehmann or, well, a hardware problem. 22:06 erlehmann i think either the hardware can not do backface culling or the driver did assert it could not. in any case, not drawing the triangles by means of a mesa patch fixed it, i think. 22:28 erlehmann Pexin regarding player provided media, it does take away from anything using note blocks etc. 22:28 erlehmann well, note nodes to be exact 22:31 Pexin we have note blocks on lifo but i was told they kinda suck 22:33 erlehmann probably 22:33 erlehmann i am just saying that removing game possibility space is bad 22:34 erlehmann also you have to weigh legal issues: ppl rickrolling each other is funneh, but “do you have a loicence for that, matey?” 22:35 Pexin websites handle it with a disclaimer "we don't control what people post, ucantsuethis" 22:35 Pexin at least they used to 22:35 erlehmann oh they get away with it if they have a takedown process 22:35 MTDiscord oh yay, GH is half-dead again 22:35 erlehmann as a smaller operation, you may get a cease and desist 22:36 erlehmann luatic in what way? 22:36 Pexin full disclosure, mc hammer u cant touch this in midi-style is now playing in my head 22:36 MTDiscord https://www.githubstatus.com/ 22:36 erlehmann Pexin, also some media are absolutely haram. in germany you can get in trouble for publishing specific songs, i think. 22:37 MTDiscord I was wondering why pushing to a branch didn't trigger an update on the PR. I assume it's because of webhooks being dead. 22:37 erlehmann people usually think of nazi music or porn songs or something like that, but in reality an album named “planktonweed tape” by a rapper “spongebozz” is banned (as in you are not allowed to promote it where kids are, and sell it only if an 18+ customer specifically asks for it). 22:38 erlehmann obviously, i am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice 22:38 kabou memeclone 22:38 erlehmann but i think hosting random media is not a good idea if the state expects you to keep quiet about that sweet sweet plankton weed lol 22:40 erlehmann you can, of course, say that the constraint is that they can only upload media that they have made themselves or CC licensed songs. but you need moderation then ig. 22:40 erlehmann or bulletproof anon hosting 22:41 * Pexin makes castlevania-themed server with ripped-off sprite art on blockfaces and complete with area music. gets sued into the ground by konami. 22:41 erlehmann hehe 22:42 erlehmann yanvania: senpai of the night! 22:43 erlehmann Pexin the reason we allow player provided bitmaps using mcl_maps is because it is insanely hard to make one 22:43 erlehmann i.e. you can not just upload some offensive picture 22:44 erlehmann so i guess having a sound api that allowed a mod to create songs in-game could be a thing 22:44 erlehmann i believe that currently the synchronization primitives for that are missing. not sure. 22:45 erlehmann i must of course say that my concerns are influenced by playing on anarchy servers 22:46 erlehmann where literally the only constant is that even the griefers hate fascists, but otherwise players lie, cheat and steal. who needs better mobs when your opponents do weird stuff like humans do? 22:46 erlehmann i have had a lot of fun making a house with a sign “do not steal my diamonds” which trapped players inside when they tried to. 22:47 erlehmann (they could always dig out of it) 22:48 erlehmann some other player once made some device that had a change detector (or how it was called) on a furnace (?) and threw potions of harming at whoever stole the cooking results without disarming the device. 22:49 erlehmann i would definitely upload something like 10 minutes of silence followed by a rickroll hehe 22:50 Pexin was about to type something about humans are the monsters but battery sent laptop to sleep mode. silly battery. 22:53 erlehmann i think the worst thing i ever did to another player was 4 metal doors with a pressure plate in it 22:53 erlehmann and a protection block nearby 22:53 erlehmann i mean, i did free the other player 22:54 erlehmann and i have not seen anything that looks *more* like a trap lol 22:54 erlehmann good old doortrap, my fav 3x3 build 22:54 erlehmann good for catching mobs too btw 22:55 Pexin I've heard of sponges just below the water surface, so there's a thin layer of water, players think they can swim, then drop down a tall shaft into lava 22:55 erlehmann off 22:55 erlehmann oof 22:56 erlehmann reminds me of the sponge mod i once made 22:56 erlehmann it replaced air with sponge:air haha 22:56 erlehmann or sth like that 22:56 erlehmann Pexin the defense is obv to have songes be saturated after a time. mcl* sponges are. 22:57 erlehmann Pexin https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=21586 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26979 22:59 Pexin yeah i found that mumble csm but I was referring to scripted nodes/mobs that can respond to specific stimuli to play different sounds with ingame distance atten 23:00 Pexin my fault for not properly using "positional" i guess 23:01 erlehmann but that thing seems to be possible already, or not? 23:01 erlehmann or, … you mean like minecraft warden? 23:01 erlehmann like a mob *hearing* sounds? 23:02 Pexin is it? 23:02 Pexin like it can detect nearby player and query info from it (current hp or whatever) and decide what sound to play? 23:03 Pexin and vary the audible distance 23:04 erlehmann why not 23:04 Pexin hm