Time Nick Message 00:11 rubenwardy https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/hub/ 00:11 rubenwardy !title 00:11 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Community Hub -MineClone 2 by Wuzzy - ContentDB 00:11 rubenwardy ContentDB now uses some fancy graph theory to work out what games a mod supports 00:18 rubenwardy this is largely an experiment to see how effective the algorithm it 00:18 rubenwardy -it +is 01:20 ronoaldo is there an updated android version for 5.5? 01:28 gargamel I got an Android update ronoaldo 01:28 ronoaldo nice, so it is just rolling out then! should be showing up for me soon. 01:29 gargamel Yea it was a day or two ago. 01:35 rubenwardy ronoaldo, gargamel: I did a partial roll out. Just checked the console, and the error rate has massively increased 01:35 rubenwardy so will pause the roll out until the cause can be checked 01:36 ronoaldo rubenwardy: ok! thanks for the update :D 01:38 ronoaldo my irc client showed up the wrong emoji, hopefully it has not propagated as a "face with tears of joy" and actually a "slightly smiling face" unicode (if any) 01:39 rubenwardy lol. I see the text `:D` 01:39 rubenwardy :\D 01:40 ronoaldo yeah, it was showing up very weird for me here lol glad it was just plain text then 02:18 jingkaimori who handles this issue now? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1367 02:19 rubenwardy no one currently 02:19 rubenwardy there's an abandoned PR that could be salvaged 02:20 jingkaimori So I can try on it without collide with others 02:20 rubenwardy yeah 02:21 jingkaimori Are there breaking change affected texture modifier now? 02:21 jingkaimori like [png:... 09:16 erlehmann Are there breaking change affected texture modifier now? 09:16 erlehmann like [png:... 09:16 erlehmann i would be surprised if [png is used already, it's pretty gnarly 09:17 erlehmann can dynamic media be referenced in texture modifiers? i hope so 10:00 MTDiscord yes OFC, otherwise Epidermis wouldn't be possible 10:09 erlehmann luatic i guess you agree that [png is not very useful then? 10:10 erlehmann like whenever i thought of it, i thought: if i EVER put something inline, it has to be human-readable 10:10 erlehmann which leaves only PPM, PBM, PNM 10:11 erlehmann and due to the fact that [png contains base64 encoded PNG, about 96 bytes of it are overhead. i can definitely put some small texture in the overhead of [png alone! 10:11 erlehmann (if using any of the PxM plaintext formats) 10:13 erlehmann i should probably write an issue on that 12:10 sfan5 human readable? wat 12:27 celeron55 human readable image formats seem a bit absurd to me 12:28 rubenwardy PNGs are human readable, if you display them 12:29 celeron55 the only time i've used them is for compiling images into a program binary for a microcontroller 12:29 celeron55 i.e. direct inclusion into source code, where source code is the human readable format 12:30 celeron55 that's quite far from a network transmission format 13:05 erlehmann celeron55 i have worked quite a bit with human readable image formats and they are pretty good for small (!) in-band signaled textures. think 16x16 monochrome bitmaps (like unifont) or something. 13:07 erlehmann when textures become large, i think they should not be in texture modifiers tbh 13:08 erlehmann back-of-the-envelope calculation: with a [pbm modifier you would use approximately as many bytes as [png would for a 10 x 10 bitmap or so, only that the pbm thing would be human-readable 13:09 erlehmann well, png would use a bit more ig 13:09 erlehmann but you see where i'm going: only for small images inband texture modifiers make sense – but for small images, base64 encoded png with about 96 bytes of overhead is not the best format 13:10 erlehmann if someone wants to stuff large images in texture modifiers, my question is: WHY 13:10 erlehmann is this a caching question? 13:11 erlehmann P1 13:11 erlehmann 8 8 13:11 erlehmann 00000000 13:11 erlehmann 01101100 13:11 erlehmann 11111110 13:11 erlehmann 11010110 13:11 erlehmann 11000110 13:12 erlehmann i try again: [pbm P1 8 8 00000000 01101100 11111110 11010110 11000110 01101100 00111000 00010000 13:14 erlehmann the png version of that is [png:iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAQAAAAEAAQAAAAB0CZXLAAAAUElEQVRo3u3XsQoAIAhAQf//p20pkKBaA+9NhjcLRT4KAABag5jtMwAAvcEtAACA+jgdFAAAeoMVAABAfvLHAQDgX1AXdQkAAFBRbgEA0BYMVqzvAI7d1EAAAAAASUVORK5CYI 13:14 erlehmann celeron55 rubenwardy does this change your opinion? 13:15 rubenwardy I personally don't like sending image data in this way, at all 13:15 erlehmann then better axe [png before ppl start relying on it seriously 13:15 erlehmann it was a bad idea from the start 13:15 erlehmann dynamic media is better 13:15 erlehmann i mean there is one usecase, maybe 13:16 erlehmann if texture modifiers are garbage collected (are they?) you can get some ephemeral texture thing that way, maybe? 13:16 erlehmann still, [png as a texture modifier looks like an abomination to me 13:17 erlehmann i'll use dynamic media. and i would use a pbm/pgm/pnm based modifier, but also for small (like 8x8) textures 13:17 erlehmann only 13:17 erlehmann rubenwardy, btw you have a small bug in your recent mod compatibility code. it shows mods that are – to my knowledge – included in mineclone5 as compatible with mineclone5. 13:18 rubenwardy technically true 13:18 erlehmann extra_mobs for example has been merged into mineclone5 afaik 13:18 erlehmann so installing it will *not* be a good thing 13:18 rubenwardy Farming Redo uses the mod name farming, and is compatible with MTG 13:18 erlehmann oh okay? 13:18 rubenwardy it's perfectly allowed for a mod to override a game's mod 13:18 erlehmann well in this case its the same author even, so there is no difference. but i guess that can't be detected. 13:19 erlehmann also i need to talk to kay27 about not diverging with mods in mineclone5 from stuff that works in mineclone2 or mineclonia. 13:19 erlehmann otherwise that name-based compatibiltiy thing is going to break down soon 13:19 erlehmann (he has a bit of a habit of making huge refactorings) 13:20 rubenwardy that's problem with name based dependencies, there's no concept of fork or versions 13:54 MTDiscord erlehmann: texture modifiers aren't GCed currently 13:54 erlehmann luatic that makes [png even more of a bad thing imo 13:54 MTDiscord In fact I'm pretty sure dynamic media has less overhead than the texture modifier, as the texture modifier stores the data twice 13:54 erlehmann why was it even approved 13:55 erlehmann is there any mod using it? 13:55 MTDiscord (once in base64 form as texture modifier, the second time as actual texture) 13:55 erlehmann (everything i know uses dynamic media) 13:55 erlehmann (or texture modifiers from hell, but those can't compete with base64 binary nonsense) 13:56 MTDiscord erlehmann: it does have certain very limited use cases, such as only having the data pollute the cache of those clients who actually see it 13:56 MTDiscord consider an entity with a [png texture set - dynamic media would require the texture be sent to all players 13:56 erlehmann yeah but the *smallest* [png payload is a ~100 byte binary blob 13:56 erlehmann oh i see 13:56 erlehmann oh crap 13:56 erlehmann does that mean dynamic media sends the maps to all players? 13:56 erlehmann ._. 13:57 erlehmann this is a privacy nightmare 13:57 MTDiscord Considering that it uses the v1 API, OFC it does 13:57 MTDiscord v2 has a to_player option, would that help? 13:57 erlehmann yes 13:57 erlehmann definitely 13:58 erlehmann the problem is that with mcl_maps + amidst you can find any base unless the ground has been extensively modified 13:58 erlehmann luatic btw https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27763 13:59 MTDiscord heh 13:59 erlehmann i have a lot more of those 13:59 erlehmann not using a cheat client is not an obstacle for some players 13:59 erlehmann if you ever encounter the player deviant, try to be friendly with them 14:00 erlehmann they have some mental health issue that makes them insult ppl all the time, but are generally friendly otherwise 14:00 erlehmann and know a lot of minetest glitches 14:00 erlehmann and by insult i mean, the explanations sometimes contain a random “and fuck off”, just like ppl imagine tourette's is like (it isn't like that) 14:00 erlehmann it's like tiny mood swings 14:01 erlehmann so don't assume deviant is an asshole or sth 14:01 erlehmann deviant explained to me that seeing some ingame things that are not legit makes them angry actually 14:02 erlehmann like using a cheat client ^^ 14:03 erlehmann oh and i am writing this only bc the person is pretty open about their condition and it's better imo to know that instead of getting all confrontational to a person who apparently can not *not* do it. 14:03 erlehmann also i have never met anyone who was better at glitching 14:18 MTDiscord that's usually not texture related, but rather graphics-stack related 14:21 erlehmann luatic what exactly? 15:24 kilbith someone is missing some IRLfriends: https://i.imgur.com/jW6MLls.png 15:36 MTDiscord I don't see how someone making 6 rather short posts on a forum means they are lonely, in fact you might be the one lacking some IRLfriends if anyone kilbith 15:44 erlehmann oh, i am lonely IRL. most everyone i know is, because of the pandemic. 15:45 erlehmann but i believe kilbith may not be accustomed to the thing that some people's activity comes in bursts. 15:50 kilbith duct tape on the mouth, erlehguy 15:51 MTDiscord spamming irc wasnt enough, seems there onto the forums now :/ 15:51 rubenwardy honestly, 6 posts in a go is not a lot 15:52 kilbith that's my point 15:52 kilbith he confuses IRC/forums with a bar 15:52 kilbith and github 15:52 kilbith wasting everyone's time 15:54 erlehmann with a bar? 15:55 erlehmann kilbith, have you even read my forum posts? half of those in the screenshot contain content that helps debugging the issue at hand. 15:56 kilbith I stopped reading you to preserve my mental health 15:56 erlehmann look how about you put me on ignore in your irc client and this is over right now? i can do the same thing for you! 15:57 kilbith there always has been village idiots like you and paramat, they are just more audible on modern communication networks now 15:58 erlehmann look, i have moderated an internet forum. while i have no idea what paramat did to upset you, i can guarantee that there are people with a worse signal to noise ratio out there. 15:58 erlehmann some, for example, mainly spew insults. does that sound familiar to you? 15:59 kilbith I'm just less hypocrite than everyone else, that's the point 16:00 kilbith bbl 16:02 erlehmann oh, i see: you confuse vile rhetoric with honesty. i can assure you that not everyone assumes ppl who make mistakes are total idiots though. 16:02 erlehmann or people who do they do not agree with 16:02 erlehmann in fact, most people do not go through life and think everyone is a total assclown. it might be on you. 16:05 erlehmann and in that case, yes, it's honest to voice it. but from a standpoint of “please make this stop”, i suggest to be a bit more civil and focus on the issue. for example, i have learned – because v-rob explained it – that it makes little sense to argue for not changing UI features in minor releases, as the breakage is pretty limited. 17:34 mazes_83 thanks all about the new release 17:36 mazes_83 new thing: can assign more keys to keymaps_slotN thanks to local irrlicht fork 17:38 mazes_83 but still on french keyboard if I want to mimic the us 123456789, it works only for 1->&, 3->", 4->KEY_OEM_7 (wtf), 5-> (, 6->KEY_MINUS 17:39 mazes_83 on our layout every other thing are not assignable to shortcuts 17:39 mazes_83 in this key row !! 17:40 mazes_83 in game HUD it works as a charm now hopefully 17:41 mazes_83 I don't understand how joysticks id are found, but as soon as I find the good one, game is "playable" with joystick 17:44 mazes_83 as soon as I open a HUD, I see wireframes on every rendered block 17:44 mazes_83 linux, RX550, default kernel radeon driver 17:47 MTDiscord A GUI you mean 17:47 MTDiscord (formspec) 17:47 MTDiscord might be #9072 ? 17:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 -- Faces show as if in wireframe mode if anti-aliasing enabled 17:48 MTDiscord LW has a similar graphics card (Radeon RX 570), so that seems to be the cause here 18:04 MTDiscord oh yay, I have the exact same issue 18:04 MTDiscord let me comment in the issue thread 18:27 MTDiscord I can reproduce it too if I enable antialiasing :o 19:28 mazes_83 exactly same bug, I always use HUD for any element which is not the game itself, my bad, I should use this term more exactly 19:30 mazes_83 so R500 series provides extra-aliasing instead of anti-aliasing