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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-11-28

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01:01 cheapie BuckarooBanzai: I took a look at your "Mesecons Lab" game thing - if you want more digilines stuff, you might want to hop on daconcepts.com:30000 sometime and take the "Gridknot" travelnet next to the spawn to "Ringroad Southeast" - that's my playground area.
01:05 erlehmann cheapie do you have any mesecons machines that corrupt server memory without actually crashing the server?
01:05 cheapie There are bouncing DVD logos on digiscreens, a 100% relay controlled 3-stop elevator, a working image editor using the digistuff GPU, a more or less completely hidden piston door with the digilines pistons, demos of libdetector/libexpander, noteblock music, a Tetris machine...
01:05 cheapie erlehmann: What do you mean by that?
01:07 erlehmann cheapie most times *i* corrupt server memory, the server crashes shortly after
01:07 erlehmann from a mod i mean
01:07 cheapie If you're corrupting server memory somehow, that sounds like an engine bug.
01:09 erlehmann true ^^
01:11 cheapie The relay logic elevator was "fun" to wire: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20211119_164838.png
01:11 cheapie (the white insulated mesecons are from a half-abandoned mod that allows for color-coding them, nobody ever uses it)
01:12 erlehmann cheapie i take that answer as a “i myself do not build in-game machines that exploit glitches or try to backdoor servers”
01:13 cheapie I have all privs on (and SSH access to) the server I play on most, so I don't *need* to exploit anything :P
01:13 erlehmann nah, the funny thing is to use that on other servers ofc
01:14 MTDiscord <Jonathon> does anyone know how to get in contact with hlqkj ? if so can they ask them to take a look at https://github.com/mt-mods/homedecor_modpack/issues/3 ?
01:19 cheapie I should mention too - libexpander is a block of code you can copy/paste into LuaC programs to let you use pins on I/O expanders as if they're part of the LuaC itself (yes, you can do things like "port.i = pin.e" or 'if event.pin.name == "F"'), while libdetector lets you treat the digilines player detectors as if they're connected to an extra pin, in a similar manner.
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01:20 erlehmann i have questions about the stairs mod. at some point it used a mesh for the stairs, then it used a nodebox for “world-aligned textures”. now why would anyone use a mesh in the first place? also: does anyone have a *working* showcase of upside down stairs with textures aligned to other nodes of the same type?
01:21 MTDiscord <Jonathon> have fun finding a mod that enabled it
01:21 MTDiscord <Jonathon> my game forces it by default
01:22 erlehmann the aptly-named “stairs” mod does not seem to correctly align brick textures on upside down stairs *even though* it claims it does
01:22 erlehmann Jonathon what game is your game?
01:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> it doesnt claim it does, its a option you have to enable if i recall orrectly
01:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *correctly
01:23 erlehmann ohhhh
01:23 erlehmann thx
01:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> also stairs is a shit mod because a. it uses its own namespace instead of the mod registering it, b. it only allows certain registration defs
01:25 MTDiscord <Jonathon> this later is hilarious because you have to resort to overrides to make mte shut up about sfan5's use_texture_alpha change to three modes rather than bool
01:25 erlehmann Jonathon what is the setting named though?
01:25 erlehmann oh lol
01:26 cheapie Oh, this was a fun one too: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20211127_192516.png
01:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> erlehmann: its in the api call worldaligntex, rather stupid, should have just enabled it by default
01:31 erlehmann Jonathon thank you, it works when worldaligntex is true
01:31 erlehmann Jonathon any idea why someone would use a mesh over a nodebox?
01:33 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i think it better rendering or something
01:33 MTDiscord <Jonathon> there is a reason, dont recall
01:33 MTDiscord <Jonathon> but world aligned, might be something else, only work on nodeboxes
01:34 erlehmann i know the thing with world aligned and nodeboxes, i just don't get why anyone would want a mesh instead of a nodebox in the first place
01:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Meshes are necessary if you aren't sticking with strict boxy models.  Even if you are, you can theoretically get some performance benefits from removing hidden surfaces, in the event you're making a model that might be used very often.
01:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I had some nodebox models that were okay, but they were like 60 tris, and I reduced them to 12 with mesh models, though I did compromise on the strict orthogonal/cubey look.
01:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you were wondering about mesh + worldalign vs nodebox + worldalign, I dunno, I haven't done that myself yet.
01:44 MTDiscord <Jonathon> meshs cant have worldaligned
01:52 erlehmann Warr1024 ok but for stairs meshes are ok?
01:56 erlehmann if anyone has a reasonable lua workaround for the breakage from Minetest commit 87ab97da2 (minetest.find_nodes_in_area() pretends there is nothing outside of ±31000 even when there is) i'd be interested
01:57 erlehmann and by reasonable, i mean nothing that corrupts server memory etc.
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03:00 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think making stairs a mesh instead of a nodebox saves you ... like 2 tris, which feels a little trivial, but maybe it adds up.  Oh, and also I guess if you use a transparent texture then you won't have extra internal surfaces showing up as nodeboxes would.
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04:47 jonadab I still want to see a voxel game that makes player characters 5-6 nodes tall, instead of 1.5-2, and then doesn't have things like stairs and slabs because they wouldn't be needed.
04:48 MTDiscord <Jonathon> then make one ;P
04:48 jonadab Sure, I'll do that in my spare time this evening.
04:49 jonadab It's only 11:40pm, I'm sure I can have it done before I go to bed tonight.
04:49 jonadab Err, 11:48, whatever.
04:50 specing jonadab: digging tunnels would probably become tedious
04:51 jonadab specing: Depends how many nodes a tool can dig through at a stroke.
04:51 jonadab Those numbers could be adjusted.
04:51 specing node targetting would become tedious
04:51 jonadab The larger issue is that there would be about 30 times as many nodes.
04:51 specing not digging speed
04:51 jonadab Which would be a perf issue.
04:52 jonadab And yes, building large structures would take more work.
04:52 jonadab OTOH, you wouldn't have to build everything half again its real-world size to allow for detail.
04:52 jonadab Walls could be 1 foot thick, instead of 3 feet thick.
04:53 jonadab So there are trade-offs.
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05:26 cheapie This is what it takes to get a cart to run at a constant(ish) speed lower than the max, I suppose :P https://cheapiesystems.com/media/cart-pid.webm
05:27 cheapie DES is the setpoint, ACT is the actual speed, PRP, INT, and DRV are the outputs of the three terms, PWR is the commanded power, and OUT is the actual signal to the rails.
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20:52 cheapie BuckarooBanzai: I should mention too - on that same server I mentioned earlier, on the other travelnet ("Cityknot") next to the spawn, there's a "west city" station. If you go there, across the street from where you'll end up there is a a "Minetest Digital" store (big gray/blue building with an "MD" sign out front). That building has examples of pretty much every digilines device that server has, and you're welcome to copy anything you want from
20:52 cheapie there too. Let me know if you want the whole building exported as a schematic or something.
20:54 BuckarooBanzai I'll check that out as soon as i have some free time :)
20:54 cheapie Has usage examples of things from digilines, digistuff, digidisplay, digiterms, digiscreen, elevatorparts, mesecons_carts, printer, rgblightstone, and probably a ton I'm forgetting.
20:54 erle_ic cheapie BuckarooBanzai i think with the waspsaliva cheat client made by cora you can actually copy and paste things on public servers
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20:54 erle_ic it does not get rotation of all nodes right though
20:55 BuckarooBanzai No need for a cheat client...
20:55 erle_ic and ofc you need the building materials
20:55 cheapie erle_ic: Cheat clients are generally prohibited on that server.
20:55 erle_ic cheapie well waspsaliva announces itself as a cheat client for exactly such reasons
20:55 erle_ic on connection
20:55 erle_ic so no fear
20:56 cheapie That said, that server runs with no CSM restriction flags, so you can certainly use a client mod to save whatever you want, as long as you're not doing it for entire sections of the map (like whole cities or whatever).
20:56 erle_ic WS is mostly a collection of client mods yeah
20:56 erle_ic ha, i use local map saving, so i am definitely doing it for everything i see
20:57 erle_ic i showed my friend a prototype of the clamity museum last night. i happen to have a 1.9GB map dump.
20:57 cheapie That's generally not a problem there unless you're flying around everywhere for the sole purpose of saving everything you can.
20:57 cheapie Also that server has around a 90GB map, saving all of that would take ages :P
20:57 erle_ic no, i saw myself more of a historian
20:58 erle_ic clamity had >16GB before it was unceremoniously murdered by a rogue admin :/
20:58 erle_ic sadly i have not found a server as cursed as it since then
20:58 cheapie One of the other ex-VE servers was well over 100GB - not sure if the new owner has that one in operation yet or not.
20:58 erle_ic i love to collect oddities
20:59 cheapie Well, VE-Creative (the one with the almost 90GB map) has plenty of those, it's been in almost-continuous operation for just short of 10 years now.
20:59 erle_ic the map dump i have for example contains corrupted portals (portal blocks wrongly aligned) and a water block that has an inventory
20:59 erle_ic and totally legit sourceless flowing water, but that is kinda common ;)
21:00 cheapie I have machines there that can do other oddities, like changing descriptions on itemstacks and whatever.
21:00 erle_ic nice
21:01 cheapie One of them uses an advanced touchscreen (so it can show item slots) and some //lua trickery, and lets you insert a stack and change the color/description to whatever you want.
21:02 cheapie IIRC I have the Luacontroller sending the desired values to some digiscreens inside the machine, then the //lua command inside the command block reads the meta from those to determine what to set it to.
21:02 BuckarooBanzai erle_ic: if you are a fan of oddities you should check out lga's museum of oddities on pandorabox
21:03 cheapie The inventory slot on the screen maps to the first slot of a chest that's also hidden inside the machine - advanced touchscreens let you do weird things like showing inventories of other nodes, although you're of course still limited by the normal rules that otherwise apply (like no taking stuff from someone else's locked chest).
21:05 erle_ic cheapie i queried you
21:05 cheapie I see that.
21:05 erle_ic i wrote it bc sometimes unregistered users are blocked from query
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21:16 erle_ic cheapie i have a question about synchronization: do you have any reliable way for mesecons to make so called “anxiety machines” work?
21:16 erle_ic if you do not know what that is, i can explain
21:16 erle_ic (nevermind, i should probably do that anyway)
21:18 erle_ic an anxiety machine is a machine that fails if the steps are not perfectly sequenced. my go-to example is two sticky pistons pointing at each other, one not extended with tnt in front of it, one extended with something that lights the tnt in front of it. if you can synchronize them perfectly, you can make them retract/extend in a way that the tnt is
21:18 erle_ic never ignited.
21:18 erle_ic however, if the machine has a hickup due to lag, the thing explodes
21:19 erle_ic my anxiety machines always explode
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