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| 01:01 |
cheapie |
BuckarooBanzai: I took a look at your "Mesecons Lab" game thing - if you want more digilines stuff, you might want to hop on daconcepts.com:30000 sometime and take the "Gridknot" travelnet next to the spawn to "Ringroad Southeast" - that's my playground area. |
| 01:05 |
erlehmann |
cheapie do you have any mesecons machines that corrupt server memory without actually crashing the server? |
| 01:05 |
cheapie |
There are bouncing DVD logos on digiscreens, a 100% relay controlled 3-stop elevator, a working image editor using the digistuff GPU, a more or less completely hidden piston door with the digilines pistons, demos of libdetector/libexpander, noteblock music, a Tetris machine... |
| 01:05 |
cheapie |
erlehmann: What do you mean by that? |
| 01:07 |
erlehmann |
cheapie most times *i* corrupt server memory, the server crashes shortly after |
| 01:07 |
erlehmann |
from a mod i mean |
| 01:07 |
cheapie |
If you're corrupting server memory somehow, that sounds like an engine bug. |
| 01:09 |
erlehmann |
true ^^ |
| 01:11 |
cheapie |
The relay logic elevator was "fun" to wire: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20211119_164838.png |
| 01:11 |
cheapie |
(the white insulated mesecons are from a half-abandoned mod that allows for color-coding them, nobody ever uses it) |
| 01:12 |
erlehmann |
cheapie i take that answer as a “i myself do not build in-game machines that exploit glitches or try to backdoor servers” |
| 01:13 |
cheapie |
I have all privs on (and SSH access to) the server I play on most, so I don't *need* to exploit anything :P |
| 01:13 |
erlehmann |
nah, the funny thing is to use that on other servers ofc |
| 01:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> does anyone know how to get in contact with hlqkj ? if so can they ask them to take a look at https://github.com/mt-mods/homedecor_modpack/issues/3 ? |
| 01:19 |
cheapie |
I should mention too - libexpander is a block of code you can copy/paste into LuaC programs to let you use pins on I/O expanders as if they're part of the LuaC itself (yes, you can do things like "port.i = pin.e" or 'if event.pin.name == "F"'), while libdetector lets you treat the digilines player detectors as if they're connected to an extra pin, in a similar manner. |
| 01:19 |
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| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
i have questions about the stairs mod. at some point it used a mesh for the stairs, then it used a nodebox for “world-aligned textures”. now why would anyone use a mesh in the first place? also: does anyone have a *working* showcase of upside down stairs with textures aligned to other nodes of the same type? |
| 01:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> have fun finding a mod that enabled it |
| 01:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> my game forces it by default |
| 01:22 |
erlehmann |
the aptly-named “stairs” mod does not seem to correctly align brick textures on upside down stairs *even though* it claims it does |
| 01:22 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon what game is your game? |
| 01:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it doesnt claim it does, its a option you have to enable if i recall orrectly |
| 01:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *correctly |
| 01:23 |
erlehmann |
ohhhh |
| 01:23 |
erlehmann |
thx |
| 01:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also stairs is a shit mod because a. it uses its own namespace instead of the mod registering it, b. it only allows certain registration defs |
| 01:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> this later is hilarious because you have to resort to overrides to make mte shut up about sfan5's use_texture_alpha change to three modes rather than bool |
| 01:25 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon what is the setting named though? |
| 01:25 |
erlehmann |
oh lol |
| 01:26 |
cheapie |
Oh, this was a fun one too: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20211127_192516.png |
| 01:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> erlehmann: its in the api call worldaligntex, rather stupid, should have just enabled it by default |
| 01:31 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon thank you, it works when worldaligntex is true |
| 01:31 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon any idea why someone would use a mesh over a nodebox? |
| 01:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i think it better rendering or something |
| 01:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> there is a reason, dont recall |
| 01:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> but world aligned, might be something else, only work on nodeboxes |
| 01:34 |
erlehmann |
i know the thing with world aligned and nodeboxes, i just don't get why anyone would want a mesh instead of a nodebox in the first place |
| 01:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Meshes are necessary if you aren't sticking with strict boxy models. Even if you are, you can theoretically get some performance benefits from removing hidden surfaces, in the event you're making a model that might be used very often. |
| 01:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I had some nodebox models that were okay, but they were like 60 tris, and I reduced them to 12 with mesh models, though I did compromise on the strict orthogonal/cubey look. |
| 01:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you were wondering about mesh + worldalign vs nodebox + worldalign, I dunno, I haven't done that myself yet. |
| 01:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> meshs cant have worldaligned |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
Warr1024 ok but for stairs meshes are ok? |
| 01:56 |
erlehmann |
if anyone has a reasonable lua workaround for the breakage from Minetest commit 87ab97da2 (minetest.find_nodes_in_area() pretends there is nothing outside of ±31000 even when there is) i'd be interested |
| 01:57 |
erlehmann |
and by reasonable, i mean nothing that corrupts server memory etc. |
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| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think making stairs a mesh instead of a nodebox saves you ... like 2 tris, which feels a little trivial, but maybe it adds up. Oh, and also I guess if you use a transparent texture then you won't have extra internal surfaces showing up as nodeboxes would. |
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| 04:47 |
jonadab |
I still want to see a voxel game that makes player characters 5-6 nodes tall, instead of 1.5-2, and then doesn't have things like stairs and slabs because they wouldn't be needed. |
| 04:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> then make one ;P |
| 04:48 |
jonadab |
Sure, I'll do that in my spare time this evening. |
| 04:49 |
jonadab |
It's only 11:40pm, I'm sure I can have it done before I go to bed tonight. |
| 04:49 |
jonadab |
Err, 11:48, whatever. |
| 04:50 |
specing |
jonadab: digging tunnels would probably become tedious |
| 04:51 |
jonadab |
specing: Depends how many nodes a tool can dig through at a stroke. |
| 04:51 |
jonadab |
Those numbers could be adjusted. |
| 04:51 |
specing |
node targetting would become tedious |
| 04:51 |
jonadab |
The larger issue is that there would be about 30 times as many nodes. |
| 04:51 |
specing |
not digging speed |
| 04:51 |
jonadab |
Which would be a perf issue. |
| 04:52 |
jonadab |
And yes, building large structures would take more work. |
| 04:52 |
jonadab |
OTOH, you wouldn't have to build everything half again its real-world size to allow for detail. |
| 04:52 |
jonadab |
Walls could be 1 foot thick, instead of 3 feet thick. |
| 04:53 |
jonadab |
So there are trade-offs. |
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| 05:26 |
cheapie |
This is what it takes to get a cart to run at a constant(ish) speed lower than the max, I suppose :P https://cheapiesystems.com/media/cart-pid.webm |
| 05:27 |
cheapie |
DES is the setpoint, ACT is the actual speed, PRP, INT, and DRV are the outputs of the three terms, PWR is the commanded power, and OUT is the actual signal to the rails. |
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| 20:52 |
cheapie |
BuckarooBanzai: I should mention too - on that same server I mentioned earlier, on the other travelnet ("Cityknot") next to the spawn, there's a "west city" station. If you go there, across the street from where you'll end up there is a a "Minetest Digital" store (big gray/blue building with an "MD" sign out front). That building has examples of pretty much every digilines device that server has, and you're welcome to copy anything you want from |
| 20:52 |
cheapie |
there too. Let me know if you want the whole building exported as a schematic or something. |
| 20:54 |
BuckarooBanzai |
I'll check that out as soon as i have some free time :) |
| 20:54 |
cheapie |
Has usage examples of things from digilines, digistuff, digidisplay, digiterms, digiscreen, elevatorparts, mesecons_carts, printer, rgblightstone, and probably a ton I'm forgetting. |
| 20:54 |
erle_ic |
cheapie BuckarooBanzai i think with the waspsaliva cheat client made by cora you can actually copy and paste things on public servers |
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| 20:54 |
erle_ic |
it does not get rotation of all nodes right though |
| 20:55 |
BuckarooBanzai |
No need for a cheat client... |
| 20:55 |
erle_ic |
and ofc you need the building materials |
| 20:55 |
cheapie |
erle_ic: Cheat clients are generally prohibited on that server. |
| 20:55 |
erle_ic |
cheapie well waspsaliva announces itself as a cheat client for exactly such reasons |
| 20:55 |
erle_ic |
on connection |
| 20:55 |
erle_ic |
so no fear |
| 20:56 |
cheapie |
That said, that server runs with no CSM restriction flags, so you can certainly use a client mod to save whatever you want, as long as you're not doing it for entire sections of the map (like whole cities or whatever). |
| 20:56 |
erle_ic |
WS is mostly a collection of client mods yeah |
| 20:56 |
erle_ic |
ha, i use local map saving, so i am definitely doing it for everything i see |
| 20:57 |
erle_ic |
i showed my friend a prototype of the clamity museum last night. i happen to have a 1.9GB map dump. |
| 20:57 |
cheapie |
That's generally not a problem there unless you're flying around everywhere for the sole purpose of saving everything you can. |
| 20:57 |
cheapie |
Also that server has around a 90GB map, saving all of that would take ages :P |
| 20:57 |
erle_ic |
no, i saw myself more of a historian |
| 20:58 |
erle_ic |
clamity had >16GB before it was unceremoniously murdered by a rogue admin :/ |
| 20:58 |
erle_ic |
sadly i have not found a server as cursed as it since then |
| 20:58 |
cheapie |
One of the other ex-VE servers was well over 100GB - not sure if the new owner has that one in operation yet or not. |
| 20:58 |
erle_ic |
i love to collect oddities |
| 20:59 |
cheapie |
Well, VE-Creative (the one with the almost 90GB map) has plenty of those, it's been in almost-continuous operation for just short of 10 years now. |
| 20:59 |
erle_ic |
the map dump i have for example contains corrupted portals (portal blocks wrongly aligned) and a water block that has an inventory |
| 20:59 |
erle_ic |
and totally legit sourceless flowing water, but that is kinda common ;) |
| 21:00 |
cheapie |
I have machines there that can do other oddities, like changing descriptions on itemstacks and whatever. |
| 21:00 |
erle_ic |
nice |
| 21:01 |
cheapie |
One of them uses an advanced touchscreen (so it can show item slots) and some //lua trickery, and lets you insert a stack and change the color/description to whatever you want. |
| 21:02 |
cheapie |
IIRC I have the Luacontroller sending the desired values to some digiscreens inside the machine, then the //lua command inside the command block reads the meta from those to determine what to set it to. |
| 21:02 |
BuckarooBanzai |
erle_ic: if you are a fan of oddities you should check out lga's museum of oddities on pandorabox |
| 21:03 |
cheapie |
The inventory slot on the screen maps to the first slot of a chest that's also hidden inside the machine - advanced touchscreens let you do weird things like showing inventories of other nodes, although you're of course still limited by the normal rules that otherwise apply (like no taking stuff from someone else's locked chest). |
| 21:05 |
erle_ic |
cheapie i queried you |
| 21:05 |
cheapie |
I see that. |
| 21:05 |
erle_ic |
i wrote it bc sometimes unregistered users are blocked from query |
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| 21:16 |
erle_ic |
cheapie i have a question about synchronization: do you have any reliable way for mesecons to make so called “anxiety machines” work? |
| 21:16 |
erle_ic |
if you do not know what that is, i can explain |
| 21:16 |
erle_ic |
(nevermind, i should probably do that anyway) |
| 21:18 |
erle_ic |
an anxiety machine is a machine that fails if the steps are not perfectly sequenced. my go-to example is two sticky pistons pointing at each other, one not extended with tnt in front of it, one extended with something that lights the tnt in front of it. if you can synchronize them perfectly, you can make them retract/extend in a way that the tnt is |
| 21:18 |
erle_ic |
never ignited. |
| 21:18 |
erle_ic |
however, if the machine has a hickup due to lag, the thing explodes |
| 21:19 |
erle_ic |
my anxiety machines always explode |
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