Time Nick Message 00:32 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Switch MapBlock compression to zstd (#10788) 13d1624a5 https://git.io/JEQA8 (152021-09-01T00:32:31Z) 00:46 erlehmann LOL 00:50 erlehmann neat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10788 00:51 erlehmann sfan5, i applaud the choice to go for faster map saving/loading instead of saving more disk space 01:17 MTDiscord sfan5, I just want to complain that the new minetest api online is nowhere near as helpful as the wiki was at being a very fast coding reference. (still is tho its' code blocks are broken) For example: I want to find minetest.colorize() for chat msgs... I search "colorize" in the search bar, and it gives me many results , none of which are what I want. (I lost paitence at the third :P) Whereas, when I search google for minetest.colorize, I 01:17 MTDiscord get this on the first result: https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.colorize which is exactly what I wanted. The difference is the searchable example code snippets... so so useful, and they will soon be gone.... I wish that the wiki remained online, unbroken. You could maintain it by letting the community edit it like wikipedia. You could make a banner note that it is maintained by the community, and as such should not be considered to be 01:17 MTDiscord reliable. Then give a link to the official api ( which is useful in its own way, just not the same way as the wiki was useful) Anyhow, thats my gripe and two cents, Not looking to start an argument, just my personal opinion. Do something abt it if you want to or not 01:21 MTDiscord minetest api online? 01:22 MTDiscord also the wiki is hosted by c55, not sf*n5 01:23 MTDiscord @MisterE, Modder of Sortz ^ 01:56 MTDiscord yes Minetest api: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ 01:56 MTDiscord but there seems to have been general concensus to remove the wiki 01:57 MTDiscord and the wiki has already been broken in that the code isnt displaying properly 01:57 MTDiscord its markup isnt being formatted anymore 02:00 MTDiscord thats not new 02:01 MTDiscord its just marked up https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt which is official 02:01 MTDiscord Its like this year 02:01 MTDiscord no, thats not the same thing im talking abt 02:01 MTDiscord I like the wiki: 02:02 MTDiscord https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.colorize 02:02 MTDiscord thats a page in it 02:02 MTDiscord im saying that the gitlab is just that file with markup applied 02:02 MTDiscord oh yeah 02:02 MTDiscord well. yes. Its very useful as a reference but not to quickly find what you want 02:02 MTDiscord and not to see how to use it 02:03 MTDiscord the wiki is no longer maked up 02:03 MTDiscord it was a few mo ago 02:04 MTDiscord oh yeah, thats some importing errors from when it was updated 03:49 Menchers dynamic shadows are so cool :D … 4FPS though 03:49 * Menchers turns it down to the lowest setting 04:24 IvanGorinich hello 04:24 IvanGorinich ca you help me 04:24 IvanGorinich a have this ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 100) 07:57 sfan5 @MisterE the wiki is not and was never an official reference; I know of the downsides of the minetest.gitlab.io (I was not involved in its creation though) which is why I use lua_api.txt myself since I can just ctrl+f for the function I want there 07:58 sfan5 dunno what's going to happen to the wiki, there is/was(?) already a note that the pages are unmaintained and not to be considered official reference 07:59 sfan5 erlehmann: I think with its current settings zstd may even be both faster and smaller. this is just based on some situational observations though, didn't benchmark it. 10:44 independent56 My new spawn is mixing elements of dutch and Warsaw Old Town Square design. 10:46 independent56 In the end, it is my hand in design. So my spawn has "megatiles" of differing brick, andthe houses are built in towo different main amterials. 13:18 MTDiscord erlehmann: I'm assuming you're generating a model and sending it as dynamic media? 13:48 ghoti Kind of new to lua here.. I want to write a script that reads xban.db. How do I pull that file into an array variable? Or do I even need that? Can I step through the array some other way? 13:53 independent_ What do i need to do to get bokeh in my screenshots? 13:56 sfan5 ghoti: inside minetest you can call xban api functions to read parts of the db 13:57 sfan5 outside of it you'd do this https://github.com/minetest-mods/xban2/blob/master/init.lua#L360-L377 but you will also require an implementation of minetest.deserialize 13:58 erlehmann luatic what where should i generate a model 14:31 Sven_vB hi :) I'm trying to find a mod for a storage container block that can show 4 item icons on its front surface, and can be opened by its owner to store items in it. the drawers and smart shops seem to be able to do that on small scale, but they seem to use entities to display the item icons, so they don't scale well for a huge wall of storage. why do they use entities? can the MT engine not generate dynamic textures from item icons? 14:33 Sven_vB even better if the storage block can be rotated to show the items on top and bottom 14:33 MTDiscord MT generally can't do dynamic textures in general, outside of entities. 14:34 Sven_vB would it be feasible to add that? 14:34 MTDiscord Anything that looks dynamic actually is actually the game flipping through several different definitions of items, each with the only difference being specifically the textures used. 14:36 Sven_vB indeed, the client graphics engine would not need to combine them, it can just draw multiple existing textures in the right place 14:37 Sven_vB I guess the client engine can even keep drawing it the way it uses for entities, just the server should not waste as much resources on them 14:37 independent_ Tha sounds like the drawers mod 14:37 Sven_vB maybe a "entity light" or "cosmetic entity"? 14:37 independent_ https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Storage_Drawers 14:38 Sven_vB independent_, indeed, I mentioned the drawers mod above, and it seems to be affected. have you tried making a 100x20 wall of drawers with 4 icons each? 14:38 independent_ no 14:39 independent_ Yousaid you were looking for a mod like that, so i assumed you were doing a "r/tipofmytounge" type question 14:39 MTDiscord They specifically mentioned that they were wondering if there was anything that didn't need entities. 14:43 Sven_vB well, what I really meant was something that doesn't make the icons disappear even if there are many. maybe entities aren't the problem in itself, but just the way they're used. could a mod make resource-efficient "fake"/"ghost"/"cosmetic" entities that only cause the client to render them, but don't strain the server? I guess they should be excluded from AI events, not be checked by the "find entities in radius" function etc. 14:45 MTDiscord As far as I know all entities are managed by the server. 14:46 MTDiscord And there especially isn't a way to say "No, this entity will never be seen by get_objects_inside_radius" 14:47 Sven_vB so we'd need server support for cosmetic entities. I'll check if there's a feature request already 14:49 sfan5 if you had entities that are not visibile to the usual API functions the mod creating the entity would itself be unable to manage it 14:49 sfan5 so that's kinda of contradictory 14:50 Sven_vB oh I see 14:52 MTDiscord Also, I think if there was a real way to dynamically change a node's texture (like with a metadata field) that would work better for the 4x item container idea you had. 14:53 Sven_vB what would we need for that? 14:58 MTDiscord I don't really know. I'm not familiar with most of the specific C++ egine code. However, meta is already occasionally used to change certain properties of an item though, like its description, and it's possible to give a node a proper animation without using the replacement method. I feel like a more manual texture change wouldn't be so difficult. 15:01 Sven_vB we'll probably need some kind of client support to avoid downloading all combinations of textures as separate image files. 15:05 MTDiscord I don't think it would need to pre-combine everything in the first place. The concept of overlays already exists in various forms. 15:21 Sven_vB would a mod need to register_node() each combination of icons? 15:23 Sven_vB (to define the combined texture) 15:29 MTDiscord Well in the current state of Minetest, yes. But in the theory-craft-land of "How could the engine be modified to support this?" that we were in just before now, then the entire point of true dynamic texture changing would be to let a node's texture change without requiring excess use of register_node(). 15:30 Sven_vB ok then I think I understand it. 15:30 Sven_vB now how do we convince the devs? :D 15:31 celeron55 that has been discussed multiple times, and the downsides have been deemed unacceptable. it would slow down mapblock mesh generation too much 15:31 Sven_vB I see 15:31 Sven_vB celeron55, so would the cosmetic entities approach from earlier be better then? 15:33 Sven_vB or maybe we could adapt the approach from text signs. if we can do text, we can probably upgrade it to emoji, and from there upgrade to item icons. 15:34 MTDiscord Signs use entities too. 15:34 celeron55 not sure, but a fact is the engine doesn't have a good method for doing what you want to do 15:34 celeron55 (when you want to do it in bulk) 15:35 celeron55 well, that assuming entities won't work 15:35 Sven_vB oh, that means having a wall with 20k signs would have the texts disappear as well? 15:36 celeron55 they should work and any problems that you have trying to use entities for that will be accepted as issues on github, but development regarding entities has been moving very slowly 15:36 celeron55 and you for sure will have problems 17:52 MTDiscord I’ve spawned about 25k SAO every server step 17:53 MTDiscord What hurt performance was the calculation of Particles 18:00 mazes_80 Hi, I try to give ability to some robots to farming:place_seed even when their owner is not online. From what I see, I need to create fake player to be able to do this, at least that's the way used by pipeworks deployers 18:01 mazes_80 I'm quite noob to minetest api though 18:02 Krock copy the create_fake_player (or similar, in that manner) function from pipeworks I guess 18:02 Krock there's no API to create a fake player 18:03 AliasAlreadyTake Can't you let the robot place the resulting block in the right position? Like "farming:carrot_1" ? 18:07 mazes_80 AliasAlreadyTake: I may think about it, but it would require to re-implement quite all the farming.place_seed logic 18:09 mazes_80 for now I'll just stand with disabling farming:place_seed when player not connected, I'll try to re-use the fake player pipeworks way later 18:20 independent_ Ugh... i ahte how big and empty creative structures are. I should have a rule against making such big and empty buildings. it has to be dense, 18:21 * Pexin builds a big empty structure made of depleted uranium 18:53 independent_ Pexin, Where was this? LF or your own world? 18:53 independent_ What do i need to do to get bokeh in my screenshots? 19:00 erlehmann sfan5, i tried tha manual calling an lbm idea and … it seems the lbm does not have an effect hmm 19:01 erlehmann sfan5 i'll debug it later more, but if there is anything in the logic that would intercept a call of lbm.action(pos, node) i would like to know 19:01 sfan5 don't think so 19:03 Pexin independent_: just a joke. I thought depleted uranium might be a sufficiently dense material for you 19:04 independent_ Haha XD. I meant in terms of use. Think of the sroads in the US vs the tight streetsof a medeteranin town 19:04 MTDiscord Texture modifiers are a big freaking mess, stay away 20:20 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Check for required libzstd APIs in cmake 1370dafcf https://git.io/JEbgi (152021-09-01T20:20:38Z) 20:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop Ubuntu 16.04 from gitlab-ci, add 20.04 instead 13e5edda2 https://git.io/JEbgP (152021-09-01T20:20:38Z) 20:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't look for zlib and zstd manually on Windows 1331d2b9e https://git.io/JEbgX (152021-09-01T20:20:38Z) 20:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update README for zstd changes 13e912008 https://git.io/JEbgM (152021-09-01T20:20:38Z) 20:23 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix falling mesh nodes being half size (#11389) 13ff9945d https://git.io/JEb2U (152021-09-01T20:20:57Z) 21:07 independent_ do the shadows work server or client side? 21:08 sfan5 w-what 21:22 independent_ I mean, in 5.5 dev, there are shadows. Where do they operate? 21:23 independent_ Eh, if it's a shader,then probably client. 21:23 sfan5 on the client of course 21:23 sfan5 no matter shader or not the server does not render anything, it does not put pixels on the screen, it can't add shadows 21:23 independent_ second question: What are some common tactics to reduce mapblock laod time from servers? 21:24 sfan5 identify the bottleneck first: the server's disk? cpu? network? 21:27 independent_ Good idea. probably my 40 mbp/s network. Or maybe the aging 186 gb HDD. Heck, it's everything 0_0 21:27 specing kick other players until the load time reduces to acceptable 21:28 independent_ Players: {56independent} 21:28 independent_ *clients={56independent} 21:28 specing see, kick yourself. No players => no load times => no problem :D 21:28 sfan5 if there are no players is the load time zero or infinite? 21:30 independent_ Look at this way: Loading blocks is something request by the palyer's computer. If there are no request,ther eisno load time.The question is not possible. You need players for the question ti be calcuable 21:59 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Add support for map block version 29 13b0ca3d7 https://git.io/JEb1s (152021-09-01T21:57:37Z)