Time Nick Message 00:32 mmuller hey, are the mobs mods mostly up-to-date (as in -- run well with each other and latest minetest)? 00:32 mmuller also, and recommendations for good mobs mods? 00:32 mmuller *any 00:44 MTDiscord Well in content db you will find mobs_redo, mobs_animal and mobs_monster in the first pages so they are techincally the best 00:44 MTDiscord just because something is first does not mean that it is the best 00:45 MTDiscord Best reviews 00:45 MTDiscord in fact mobs redo performance is not that great 00:45 MTDiscord yeah low quality but its api is easy to use, doesnt make laggy mobs 00:45 MTDiscord >doesnt make laggy mobs but yet it does 07:06 independent56_ i wish mapserver would do more then a map, like telling me if ars is on in a signal, or type of train... just all extra information i need. 07:06 independent56_ but you could argue that if i cared that much, i would add the features already. 09:21 VanessaE anyone awake? I need some help with mod security.. 09:21 sfan5 hi 09:22 VanessaE I need minetest.get_dir_list() to read from a dir outside of the mod/world dir 09:23 VanessaE I put the mod in secure.trusted_mods, then in the code I requested an insecure environ, local ie=that, then ie.get_dir_list(), but it's blocking access 09:23 VanessaE (I'm preparing a feature for skinsdb) 09:23 VanessaE well, ie.core.get_dir_list() that is 09:23 sfan5 the fact that get_dir_list exists in the insecure environment is misleading 09:24 VanessaE oh? 09:24 sfan5 you get an insecure environment but the engine methods are always sandboxed 09:24 VanessaE fuck. 09:24 sfan5 (unless mod security is disabled wholesale) 09:25 sfan5 I have wondered about this in the past but didn't bother to create an issue 09:25 sfan5 you could be the one to do it ;) 09:25 VanessaE I'm trying to create a new option in skinsdb such that it can read from a global directory (and another it can write to), which all of my servers would then use 09:26 BuckarooBanzai btw: had the same issue with `minetest.mkdir` (not available in an insecure env) 09:26 VanessaE so wait, is there no way at all then to do this? 09:27 sfan5 if you want it to work you can always use os.popen(string.format("ls %q", path)) 09:27 sfan5 "ls '%q'" actually 09:27 VanessaE I can't guarantee the game would be running on Linux. 09:27 VanessaE unless windows has an 'ls' command :P 09:27 sfan5 interestingly "dir" works on both windows and linux 09:28 sfan5 but this is the best you get unless the engine issue is solved 09:28 sfan5 unless you pull in luafilesystem or something similar, which then leads to other annoyances 09:29 * VanessaE sighs 09:29 VanessaE > =os.popen(string.format("ls '%q'", "/")) 09:29 VanessaE stdin:1: attempt to call field 'popen' (a nil value) 09:31 sfan5 io.popen 09:31 sfan5 I was thinking of python 09:31 VanessaE oh, io 09:32 VanessaE I should have caught that 09:33 VanessaE hm, no, that's still not right.. 09:33 VanessaE > for _,i in pairs(io.popen(string.format("ls %q", "/home"))) do print(i) end 09:33 VanessaE stdin:1: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got userdata) 09:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome 09:34 sfan5 it returns a file handle you can read from 09:34 VanessaE ah 09:44 VanessaE > local d=io.popen(string.format("ls %q", "/home")) while true do l=d:read("*line") if not l then break end print("---"..l) end 09:44 VanessaE bingo. 09:44 VanessaE (the --- just to prove to myself that it's working) 09:44 VanessaE now to see if it works in-game 09:49 VanessaE well it doesn't crash anyway :P 09:53 VanessaE it works :) 09:53 VanessaE thanks! 09:54 VanessaE well getting the list is successful.. now to make it actually WORK. :P 10:06 celeron55 maybe it's good that it's not too easy to do insecure things? 8-) 10:07 VanessaE :P 10:31 VanessaE but it seems like there's no way to access an image file that's outside the usual MT dirs and forward it to clients, so I have to copy the "global" files to skinsdb's textures dir at startup anyway :-/ 10:53 VanessaE * `minetest.dynamic_add_media(filepath, callback)` ... can this add images from outside the mod/world dir? 10:54 VanessaE hm, probably isn't what I want anyway 10:59 celeron55 i don't know, but i'm going to guess you'll have to copy them to the media directory for some reason or another 11:01 celeron55 it's a bit iffy to change how all those work for trusted mods just because one out of 1000 wants to do something 11:21 * VanessaE sighs 13:32 independent56_ how do i prevent client sqlite errors when two players join my server from the same computer? 13:35 VanessaE is there anywhere other than $modpath/textures that I can dump png files and still have MT find them normally? maybe in $worldpath? 13:37 sfan5 $worldpath/worldmods/dummy/textures 13:37 VanessaE mmh 13:38 sfan5 also I think there's some way to have the server read a texturepack folder 13:38 VanessaE that's in the gamepath 13:38 VanessaE I think 13:39 VanessaE I got the "global" feature working well enough to "look" right but it still writes the images to the mod's textures dir and I want to avoid that.. 13:40 VanessaE but maybe I can have it mkdir modpath.."/../something_else/textures" like your idea. 13:43 MTDiscord Is there a policy on how public the servers on the server list have to be? Like, are servers that use a whitelist or require a password or invite allowed, or do they have to actually allow some level of real access to the general public? 13:46 sfan5 there is not 14:41 beanzilla Sorry to ask a odd question, does anyone know if there's mesecons:redstoneblock in MineClone2? 14:42 rubenwardy #mineclone2 is the IRC channel 14:42 beanzilla Ah, thank you. 15:21 basxto does or did minetest ever work with minecraft assets in any way? (I’m quite sure it didn't) 15:29 basxto there is a site which lists minetest as a minecraft remake, which feels wrong 15:52 entuland can't elaborate about those judgements 15:52 entuland but there is #mineclone2 15:53 celeron55 work with? 15:53 celeron55 what does that even mean 15:54 MTDiscord It works with MC assets if you convert them into a format that MT uses 15:54 celeron55 it's never included any, and never has been directly compatible with any, except player skins 15:54 MTDiscord In fact that can be said for any other game 16:31 basxto mineclone2 neither uses minecraft assets directly, opposed to projects like openttd, which rebuild the engine (it also remade the assets later) 16:32 basxto but since it's indeed not that defined that well, they supply their own definitions 16:33 basxto > A is a game where the executable and sometimes the assets as well are remade open source. Some of these games aren't exact remakes but evolution of original ones, which were eventually open sourced. 16:33 basxto > A is a game which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a game or series. 16:33 basxto > A game is one which has similar gameplay but is not a clone. 16:34 basxto with that definition mcl could be a remake 16:34 basxto mintest a clone or similar 16:34 basxto though it never felt like there was any focus on minecraft's RPG part 16:35 MTDiscord Minetest is a remake of an infiniminer remake. 16:40 celeron55 i think most people who mention infiniminer have never even seen it, minecraft definitely isn't a remake of infiniminer 16:41 celeron55 rather it's a similar engine 16:42 celeron55 the reason infiniminer is important is it's pretty much the first commonly known game to use cubic meter voxels in a first person setting 16:45 celeron55 then notch figured out a similar engine will make an interesting creative environment and can be made pseudo-infinite, and then he put zombies in it 16:46 celeron55 that basically is what minecraft is to this day 16:47 celeron55 it's a bit ironic that people sometimes play competitive games similar to infiniminer inside minecraft 16:47 celeron55 or minetest for that matter 16:50 MTDiscord I guess my point in mentioning infiniminer is that characterizing MT as "just an MC clone" is about on the level with calling MC an infiniminer clone. 16:50 celeron55 by the time minecraft had zombies i came along and figured there's room in this genre for pretty much anything i can be bothered to program and i can make reddit mad by doing it 16:51 MTDiscord MT is also similar to infiniminer in that a lot of how it's actually played is rather different from how it was designed to be played :-) 16:51 celeron55 back then reddit was where all the cool kids were 16:51 celeron55 nowadays it's discord or something 16:52 MTDiscord Haha, well, it's where all the kids are, at least. :-D 16:52 erlehmann by the time minecraft had zombies i came along and figured there's room in this genre for pretty much anything i can be bothered to program and i can make reddit mad by doing it 16:52 erlehmann LOL 16:52 erlehmann celeron55 are we the baddies? :D 16:52 basxto now that I looked more at how minecraft does things duo to mcl, I realize that minetest players (2D in a 3D world) were closer to what infiniminer did :D 16:52 erlehmann le reddit rageface 16:53 erlehmann basxto i think fleckenstein is your go-to source for "everything that minecraft can do" btw 16:53 MTDiscord I played Infiminer for a bit, vaguely reminiscent of old versions of CTF 16:53 erlehmann he pretty much says his mineclone2 goal was to religiously clone minecraft, including bugs, even if the minetest engine has to bend backward 16:54 basxto oh damn, I just release that my quotes lacked the most important words xD 16:54 basxto *realize 16:55 MTDiscord Okay, I had never even actually seen infiniminer before, just took people's word for its similarities 16:55 MTDiscord but now that I see some gameplay footage from it, it's way more similar than I expected 16:56 erlehmann mineclone2 neither uses minecraft assets directly, opposed to projects like openttd, which rebuild the engine (it also remade the assets later) 16:56 erlehmann basxto pretty sure you can use minecraft assets though 16:56 erlehmann clamity does i think? 16:58 MTDiscord You could use MC assets in any MT game, but (1) you'd probably have to convert them to the right formats, and (2) they can't be distributed bundled. 16:58 basxto I actually thought about trying to create a converter for the free raspberrypi version of minecraft 16:58 MTDiscord MT games can only use assets they have permission to, or else they can't redistribute a version that's directly playable without importing assets, so they pretty much all ship with their own. 16:59 MTDiscord Minecraft is interesting but if I wanted to play Minecraft then I'd just play my copy of Minecraft. I imagine a lot has changed in the like 7 years since I last touched it. 16:59 basxto but the textures might not fit, I don't think the models are exactly the same (I honestly don't want them to be) 17:01 basxto warr1024: infiniminer videos always feel like watching a FPS match in a voxel miner world 17:01 basxto +for me 17:02 MTDiscord I'd love to see a faithful remake in MT :-) 17:03 basxto and in general you can use comercial assets by either converting them or supporting their file formats directly … the latter is probably more done my foss remake engines 17:04 MTDiscord I don't really go much for adaptations/clones of popular titles like MineClone2, but ones of more osbcure games like infiniminer, or ones that are kind of stretching the original vision of the engine like Box World 3D, I like. 17:05 erlehmann basxto, in the tools directiory of mineclone2/mineclonia there is a texture converter 17:05 celeron55 an infiniminer remake in minetest would be cool 17:05 erlehmann This is a Python script which converts a resource pack for Minecraft to 17:05 erlehmann a texture pack for Minetest so it can be used with MineClone 2. 17:05 erlehmann Coverage is close to 100%, but it's not quite there yet. 17:05 celeron55 of course as has been said CTF is a bit similar but it's not the same 17:05 basxto mineclone2 is what I played most since I switched back from voxelands, but I pretty much just want a well documented game with builtin and well integrated mobs, farming, automatization and lots of generated stuff to explore 17:06 MTDiscord Infiniminer looks like a .NET thing so honestly I'm not sure whether I'd actually be able to run it as it is. The MT engine seems like it'd be a great fit for it, tho. 17:06 basxto I miss vombies and mesecon a bit tbh 17:06 basxto :D 17:06 rubenwardy I don't really play or enjoy FPS games, and I think CTF makes that evident 17:06 erlehmann vombies? 17:06 basxto dunno if they are still a thing 17:06 rubenwardy well, the base design that is - now that I no longer dev it, presumably it's gotten better \o/ 17:06 MTDiscord ruben: if you like to develop games but not play the games you develop, then the MT scene is right for you :-D 17:06 basxto was probably one of the first mob mods 17:07 MTDiscord I have noticed that the things I enjoy the most are the things I CAN'T create for myself. 17:07 basxto I don't remember if they were supposed to be zombies or vampires, they were at least badly drawn and nobody could tell 17:07 MTDiscord It is, after all, hard to find surprises in a thing you made yourself. 17:07 MTDiscord Games with a ton of emergent mechanics are a bit of an exception to that, at least, though. 17:09 basxto your procgen just isn't good enough :D 17:10 MTDiscord I don't find procgen that exciting though. 17:10 MTDiscord Like what surprises me isn't so much fancy mapgen stuff, as it is when a player discovers some new mechanic or trick I wouldn't have thought of. 17:14 basxto vombies are from Animals Modpack https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=629 17:15 basxto even supports minetest 0.4.13 17:45 basxto warr1024: and yes, infiniminer is c# and it was dropped because it's sourcecode was decompiled, it's not really a finished game 17:45 basxto it's fully open sourced, but all textures are in .psd format D: 17:55 celeron55 it's a weird choice to drop a game because its source code was decompiled with debug symbols 17:55 celeron55 you don't really lose anything in that if you keep developing it further, soon enough it'll deviate a lot from what was decompiled 17:56 MTDiscord I mean maybe there were some deeply embarrassing variable names or something 17:56 celeron55 i don't think so 17:56 MTDiscord I guess I can't comment because I don't really understand decompilation anyway. Like, that sort of implies that they were distributing binaries only and not source, and that alone boggles. 17:57 celeron55 well of course it was binary only like most games 17:57 celeron55 some people see leaking source code like someone seeing you pants down 17:58 celeron55 altough i guess that's not as bad either as some people think 17:58 MTDiscord We're open-source folks, we don't wear pants. 17:58 celeron55 the pants down thing i mean 17:58 MTDiscord Can't be caught with your pants around your ankles if you make sure to stay well away from pants in general. 17:58 basxto > Hackers modified the code to make mods, but also started making clients that would target vulnerabilities in the game as well as build incompatible game forks that fragmented its user base. Barth, who was making the game for free, then lost interest and dropped the project, as development of the game had become too difficult. 17:58 basxto that's what wikipedia says 18:00 MTDiscord MT's got its fair share of hack clients and forks and such, but I don't think those things have really affected it so much though. 18:00 MTDiscord A swift swing of the ban hammer is usually enough with casual cheaters 18:00 MTDiscord Like, interest waxes and wanes and there is some turnover in active contributors, but I think that's mostly just natural cycles stuff? 18:01 MTDiscord I don't usually bother punishing cheaters on my server. We mostly just laugh at them until they go away. 18:01 MTDiscord Also, exposing vulnerabilities that were going to be uncovered anyways seems like it just does some of the work for you in finding them 18:03 MTDiscord Fragmenting the userbase sounds like a greater issue, but then if they're willing to bail so quickly how good of a job were you really doing... 18:04 MTDiscord Yeah, I mean, if you ask me how many people play my game, I'd have to ask what level of engagement is the proper standard. 18:05 basxto well, he made other games after it 18:05 basxto or that studio 18:07 basxto spacechem, shenzhen I/O, opus magnum, nfinifactory (infiniminer+spacechem, somewhat) 18:07 basxto mhm … exile is more frustrating than fun 18:08 MTDiscord It seems like there's a whole "infini-" ecosystem, like maybe they reused enginy parts of the games for other things using similar tech but different play styles. 18:09 MTDiscord I thought the "hardcore survival" aspects of Exile were too literal for my tastes. 18:10 MTDiscord In practice I spent a lot of my play time in that game laying in bed trying to conserve hydration so that I could weather a long drought with as little dying and walking back home from spawn as possible. 18:11 MTDiscord When I decided to make a hardcore survival game I decided not to put dying in it :-D 18:11 MTDiscord (more accurately I ended up removing death later, but either way it's gone) 18:13 MTDiscord you can't mention a zachtronics game without mentioning TIS-100 18:13 MTDiscord If we were to make an infiniminer remake in MT I feel like "finiminer" would be a good name for it, to highlight how everyone seems to complain all the time about the 62km map size limit. 18:14 basxto I’m taking damage and don't understand why :D, I hope it gets easier once I understand how to get the basic things 18:15 basxto and dunno, I rather program real assembler and run it on my gameboy 18:16 basxto people complain about the map size? 18:16 basxto so far the map seemed quit big to me 18:16 MTDiscord you're probably taking damage in Exile because the homeostasis of your body is entirely the player's responsibility. You need to keep fed and hydrated, regulate your body temperature, etc. 18:17 MTDiscord Apparently there are people who play minetest by getting on a server and just walking, and I suppose assume they should have to walk for hours on end to find a spot to settle 18:17 basxto maybe it was temp, thirst wasn't at 0% 18:18 MTDiscord Hypothermia and heatstroke can both kill you in exile, and a lot of things like rain and furnaces and shelter can impact your exposure to heat/cold. 18:18 basxto I drove a bit around by boat to explore a bit of our map 18:18 basxto that took hours 18:19 MTDiscord Personally I tend to limit map size pretty tightly, unless there are enough players that it starts to feel crowded. I don't want to keep eating up disk space to store just plain mapgenned terrain that players haven't even developed, and I keep rotated backups and such too. 18:21 MTDiscord It's really sad when a server just ghosts and leaves no backups or snapshots or continuity plan and players just loose their work and their community. I require players to CC0-license anything they build on my server so that anyone can pull snapshots anytime, and there's no risk that we'll just lose funding to run it and everyone will lose their year-long projects. 18:23 basxto you certainly don't want me as a player 18:23 basxto I probably discovered 90% of our map :D 18:24 basxto and looted everything I found on my way 18:25 basxto but walking for a bit before settling is important, there should be nobody around 18:26 basxto I’m already annoyed that others can see my name from afar 18:26 basxto they can just run or dig to where I am -.- 18:27 MTDiscord Looting is not allowed on most of the NodeCore servers out there, but the way nametags are handled in the game is designed to handle a mix of coop and anarchy play. 18:28 MTDiscord You can't see a player's nametag unless you can see their face up close enough, so they don't show through stuff 18:28 MTDiscord but you can learn to recognize a player by clothing color, if you spot them at a distance 18:28 basxto I’m talking about generated structures 18:29 MTDiscord ah, yeah, dungeon loot is actually still pretty new in nodecore 18:29 basxto mcl has more 18:29 basxto there are mineshafts and villages 18:29 MTDiscord yeah, the original MC went hog-wild with prefab structures and MCL pretty much had to match 18:30 basxto tbh it makes exploring more fun 18:31 basxto I don't know what I would do if somebody dug into my base 18:32 basxto I know all the people on the server, but killing and looting them would be well deserved 18:33 basxto is that normal mintest behavior or a nodecore modification that you can see players only if the are clone neough? 19:11 independent56_ get the areas mod, to protect your base. 19:11 independent56_ unless it is anarchy 19:12 independent56_ or unallowed 19:13 independent56_ i hate data loss. i lost all my documents from pre-2020 because of a mistkaed disk format. but it had all sorts of edgy in it, so i dont really mourn the loss that much. the docuents i keep now are much more numerous and harder to backup. 19:19 independent56_ i just found out that clapham junction is a thing that exists... wow! 19:21 independent56_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccG2nKn-zgs 19:33 basxto I don't run the server 19:59 independent56_ night is annoying, and i dont want to disable the cycle. can i make night as bright as daytime, and if so, how? 20:14 Noisytoot independent56_: What's the difference between night and day if the brightness is the same? 20:14 independent56_ the sky. i want to see nighttime, maybe i add a small handicap to the brightness at night, but it will be livable darkness. 20:17 basxto fullmoon :D 20:18 independent56_ XD 20:18 independent56_ i want to be at that point where you can build, but it is uncomfortable to live without lighting. 20:20 independent56_ tfw your long cargo train takes 3 track sections 20:28 MTDiscord "...normal mintest behavior or a nodecore modification..." it's nodecore, but there's also https://gitlab.com/Kimapr/mtg_player_names 22:34 independent56_ http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:fartown 22:35 independent56_ does my luaatc code look like it needs extra? (ignor the indentation) 22:35 independent56_ goodnight, will check logs tomorrow. 23:43 MTDiscord "fartown" sounds like an area protection system based on flatulence.