Time Nick Message 07:06 independent56 all my "players" are just visitors, looking at the map (and in one case, attempting to place cobble inprotected areas) 07:07 independent56 i hope one day, i wont just get visitors, and instead, a proper player. just like my playership with tunnler's abyss, building because "why not?". 07:09 independent56 and maybe i shouldnt creep out my players by flying, staring at those who play on my server. 07:09 independent56 just a thought 08:14 definitely_a Are you Minecraft veterans playing Mineclone2 or Mineclonia? The latter seems to have more level headed project leaders overall. 08:15 definitely_a I checked the issues on Mineclone2 git and oh my, was it a great shism... ,:( 08:16 definitely_a schism* 08:28 definitely_a &local=true 08:28 definitely_a woops 15:58 independent56 how's my imposter syndrome? dont even ask http://2.26.38.198/wordpress/2021/06/13/i-am-i-am-not/ pls help me 16:01 entuland if you really are 14 years old I guess you should just take it easy and don't stress yourself out over such dilemmas 16:01 entuland just enjoy what you do and if you feel like it, put effort at getting better at it 16:01 entuland mind you, that stands even if you're 56 years old 16:04 entuland I'm 42 years old and I have never bothered even attempting multithreaded programming 16:05 entuland there is no such thing as a binary "true/false programmer" - world is nuanced 16:06 entuland world / life / whatever 16:06 y5nw reality 16:07 entuland that one, yes :) 16:07 celeron55 if you're 14 years old, look at other people who are 14 years old 16:08 celeron55 you're ways ahead if you just know what programming is 16:08 celeron55 no need to stress about it 16:08 celeron55 same thing for system administration 16:10 celeron55 continue the hobby in any amount and you'll still be ahead after 10 years 16:11 MTDiscord Or don't look at other people who are 14, some people move at their own pace. I remember wanting to have my fair share of megaprojects when I was a teen, come to find out megaprojects kinda suck IMO. 16:11 celeron55 what even is a megaproject 16:13 MTDiscord Some big endeavor that is expected to take anywhere from years to your entire career to complete, often with the intention of becoming popular enough to support its own development. 16:13 sfan5 something bigger than a project but clearly smaller than a hyperproject 16:13 specing you'll be ahead after 10 years, but others will be ahead in social matters 16:14 celeron55 that's true, i would recommend the social things also 16:15 MTDiscord Honestly I didn't really do much with programming until my later teens, that's when I started having (slightly) smaller ideas and seeing problems to fix rather than fixes without a problem. 16:16 MTDiscord Started to, anyways 16:16 celeron55 not to sound super depressing, but it's annoying to try climbing out of loneliness at 25. definitely don't set yourself up for that challenge 16:16 specing and if you are too ahead of everyone, you'll become a friendless social outcast 16:17 MTDiscord I mean, some people like being a hermit, but most don't. 16:18 MTDiscord Finding spaces outside of the internet can also help, such as a local Maker's Space, Hacker's Space, or User's Group 16:19 celeron55 specing: not necessarily if you don't build your entire persona around it 16:20 rubenwardy university is also great for making friends 16:20 rubenwardy the recipe just requires adding alcohol 16:20 MTDiscord and making debt /s 16:21 celeron55 it's also great for not making friends 16:21 specing celeron55: it's hard to socialise if you use things that noone else is using, and other people using things that you are not using 16:21 rubenwardy in the UK, it's more like tax. It's paid as a % of my earnings over a threshold 16:22 celeron55 specing: -> also use things other people are using 16:22 MTDiscord Ruben: Interesting 16:23 rubenwardy If you earn less than £22k, you don't need to pay anything. It's a certain percentage of your earnings over 21k, just like any other tax 16:23 specing celeron55: yeah, no. My dislike of windows/facebook/msn/discord/etc has not changed since primary school 16:23 rubenwardy Yeah, Facebook is a definite requirement for a social life at university 16:24 specing seemed so, yeah. I was out of everything 16:24 rubenwardy all the events are organised through it 16:24 specing yep 16:24 rubenwardy There's a point where you need to weigh up the limited loss of privacy with your own happiness 16:25 specing Thing is, I am happier without it (other than not having a social life, but you get used to it) 16:25 celeron55 ah, always so lovely when a megacorporation basically owns people 16:25 rubenwardy you can probably make do without it if you have good connections with flatmates and such, and if you campaign the uni to list events on their own website 16:26 MTDiscord I had Facebook for a year, then decided it was best left alone. 16:26 celeron55 i have a false throwaway facebook account for reading private groups, but i never post anything and never represent myself there 16:27 MTDiscord Was probably a year too long tbh- 16:27 celeron55 i had an actual account in 2007 or so, for a year or two 16:27 specing rubenwardy: the events I attended were all published in uni mailing list. There were also many that were facebook only, or required registration there 16:28 specing which I obviously did not attend 16:30 rubenwardy anyway, it's hard to make friends after university. Uni has the benefit of lots of different people, alcohol, and a general friend making attitude - everyone is away from home and doesn't know anyone 16:30 rubenwardy but after that, you tend to have work colleagues, any groups you go to, and friends of friends 16:31 specing rubenwardy: most my classmates weren't away from home. We don't have campus-style unis that are common in usa 16:31 rubenwardy Our uni was a city university not a campus university, most people were still away from home though 16:32 specing Alcohol is also no-go. It messed with your self-control. I also hold that if you need alcohol to befriend someone, you shouldn't befriend them anyway 16:33 rubenwardy you don't need it, but it helps 16:34 rubenwardy there are non-alcohol events too - board game nights, cafe crawls, etc. It's just an excuse to do something 16:39 MTDiscord Funny thing about this community is that for many people (myself included) this was pretty much our wider friend group, and for some it might be their main friend group. Of course, the community was more centralized on IRC at the time and -hub/-chat was at it's most active point during 2015-2018 AFAIK. 16:44 independent56 celeron55, haha yeah. im only looking at those teenagers online who have already made a huge/contributed a lot to an advanced program. i fail to see all the students in school who prioritise "spending time with "mates"" more then programing in a cold, dark room, staring into a dark room. 16:45 independent56 and the teachers dont understand whatever i say about programming. any sentence i say will most;y go over their heads. i should use less jargon, and more simple words. but anything to make me look smarter. 16:45 rubenwardy pretty much all students in a school prioritise spending time with mates over programming in cold dark rooms 16:47 MTDiscord Have you tried programming in a warm, well lit room? 16:47 rubenwardy communication is a two-way street, you need to communicate well for people to understand. Code switching is important for that, don't talk to non-technical people the same you would with programmers 16:47 rubenwardy and yeah, generally a good idea :D 16:48 rubenwardy My plants prefer when I program in a warm well lit room 16:48 entuland independent56, trying and make yourself look smarter isn't... smart 16:48 independent56 XD yeah. i shouldnt say "i am operating a self-hosted webserver using XAMPP, public IPs and port forwarding". is hould just say "i made a self-hosted website" but the first makes me look smrt, so i use it 16:48 independent56 and the teacher's confused expression is worth it 16:49 MTDiscord Oh man, I'm starting to think of 2015 like it's my own 1995...I don't like this 16:49 celeron55 you need to have a with mates mode and a programmer mode just like people who work as programmers, if you're so far into programming even your teachers don't keep up 16:49 entuland even that one may be avoided unless you're queried about what you are doing or what you can do 16:49 rubenwardy anyone that knows their shit will know you're talking shit 16:49 entuland that is, just don't brag around, that'll be a great starting point 16:49 rubenwardy public IPs and port forwarding? .....you're hosting at home? 16:50 MTDiscord ^ 16:50 rubenwardy I guess by self-hosted you mean literally home labbed rather than managing the hosting yourself 16:50 Krock if I pay for a VPS and set up a website, is it self-hosted? 16:50 rubenwardy I'd say yes 16:50 rubenwardy Ie: I have a self-hosted instance of Weblate on a VPS 16:51 independent56 yes, mum wont buy me a VPS, so i made a PS at hoem XD 16:51 MTDiscord Self-hosted usually means not managed by another company, so while the VPS isn't self hosted your website on a VPS would be. 16:51 celeron55 it's self-hosted if you're the one to call when it breaks 16:51 rubenwardy I'd say self-hosted is in terms of software management, and home labbing is in terms of hardware management 16:51 Krock for a website you don't even need a VPS 16:51 independent56 just some webserver 16:51 rubenwardy ah yeah good point ben 16:51 rubenwardy nope, you can use a CDN like GitHub pages 16:52 rubenwardy there are webservers but you don't need to know about them 16:52 celeron55 calling github pages self-hosted seems stretching it 16:52 rubenwardy until the fastly outage happens 16:52 rubenwardy github pages isn't self-hosting 16:52 rubenwardy you're not managing software or hardware 16:52 MTDiscord That being said, self-hosting has advantages and I encourage using the opportunity to learn. 16:53 independent56 what should i call it instead? 16:53 independent56 self-self-hosting? 16:53 celeron55 when you're a kid, of course you self host out of your bedroom closet 16:53 celeron55 that's how you learn 16:53 celeron55 you don't learn otherwise 16:54 rubenwardy the term for hosting stuff at home is called home labing 16:54 independent56 ah thanks 16:54 MTDiscord I was never allowed to host out of my closet, otherwise I definitely would have had a Raspberry Pi website up years ago :P 16:54 rubenwardy when I was 15, I bricked my parents router by trying to portforward 16:54 independent56 i wish i had a closet to home-lab from. but i dont. i have to use some table, like some dork 16:55 independent56 i once changed the router's name, and disconnected EVERYONE XD 16:55 MTDiscord Having a proper space makes you a dork? 16:55 rubenwardy I managed to turn off the web admin portal and also the internet conenction 16:55 y5nw I did not host from my closet because of security considerations/Internet censorship 16:55 rubenwardy I fixed it by connecting with an ethernet cable and using telnet to reenable the web admin portal 16:55 y5nw rubenwardy: oof 16:56 independent56 that must hurt. a lesson: do not touch live wires, they could bite back (dont touch a working webserve,r you may break it, like i did, or a router, like you did) 16:57 y5nw In the area I lived in the ISP apparently blocked ports unless you write to them to not block the ports (which I didn't want to do to avoid some lengthy discussion with my parents) 16:57 y5nw independent56: don't touch the apartment you live in or it will collapse :P 16:58 independent56 XD 16:58 rubenwardy I didn't touch live wires? 16:58 rubenwardy Is that an idiom? 16:58 independent56 live wires being a metaphor for anything people rely on, and is working like a router, or XAMPP server 16:58 y5nw also it should be fine to touch jump wires ... in most cases 17:00 independent56 the only communication i had to have with my mum was about the webserver - do not unplug or touch it. let it sit and breathe my bedroom air! 17:00 beanzilla How long does it normally take for a mod to be approved on ContentDB? 17:01 independent56 it took 2 days for me 17:01 MTDiscord Depends how active staff are 17:01 MTDiscord Which is very inactive 17:01 MTDiscord Whats your mod? 17:01 beanzilla item_generator 17:02 MTDiscord Please hold 17:02 beanzilla I'm not in a rush anyway. 17:02 beanzilla I don't even know if it's valid or not. (I use parts of the default Minetest MTG game, and parts from another mod I was helping the author on) 17:03 independent56 as long as it adds to the MT modding community, its fine. my mod was literally a handful of mods put into a big blender XD 17:04 beanzilla Oh, ok... well then I should be fine then. 17:04 independent56 imo 17:04 MTDiscord Your license is incorrect 17:04 beanzilla Figured that. 17:04 MTDiscord Your using a model and texture from mtg 17:04 MTDiscord Default which is lgplv2 17:04 MTDiscord You could depend on default and remove that material thus being mit 17:04 y5nw independent56: if I really thought about hosting a web server from my computer back then I would have to talk to my parents on Internet censorship/safety, physical safety considerations, the fact that I was going to Germany soon (-ish at the time), and possibly letting the ISP at the time acknowledge 17:04 MTDiscord Or change it to lgplv2 17:05 y5nw Maybe make license exceptions? I have seen a few mods do that already 17:05 beanzilla Ah, ok... well I will fix it then... what about code wise? I essentially use my own "chest" concept which is directly from Minetest? 17:06 beanzilla And when I say "fix" I mean instead of just having the model and textture I just use the default instead. 17:06 y5nw It should be fine if the "concept" does not involve copying code IMO 17:06 MTDiscord ^ 17:07 MTDiscord Using a api is fine, copying the code that makes the api is not 17:07 MTDiscord (Unless you are using a compatable license) 17:07 beanzilla Ah, ok... so then I guess this was a fail then.... Yeah... exactly... oops. (Well I added it in because I was thinking of adding MineClone2 support, but I might as well since I have decided not to to go back the the old way) 17:08 celeron55 https://i.imgflip.com/5d8nr9.jpg 17:08 beanzilla So it would be fine if I used the default's api? 17:08 MTDiscord Yes 17:08 beanzilla And the default's texture and models? 17:08 MTDiscord Yes 17:09 beanzilla Ok... well I guess I will strip the un-necessary stuff out since I only added for MineClone2 17:09 beanzilla Which I have change my mind on to begin with. :P 17:10 MTDiscord You could optionally depend on default and mc2 whatever, and then structure your mod to error if neither is found 17:11 beanzilla I was thinking of doing it that way... but I'd need to interpret the mc2 chest to see how it works internally so I can add the same concept there. 17:11 MTDiscord Yeah 17:12 beanzilla I've removed the models, textures, and sounds directory on the repo... but I have something else to do IRL right now so I will finish it a bit later. (Obviously now the code will fail, till I update the code) 17:13 beanzilla Thank you for the valuable information on what is valid and not. (Didn't even think about that stuff) 17:15 independent56 you will find the information sold in a local tesco, given that it is so valuble 17:19 MTDiscord Sure, will be busy for a while anyways 18:36 MTDiscord Requesting a review for my PR "Allow setting nick for favorite servers in client": https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11202 19:19 Li0n beanzilla: may I suggest using Mineclonia instead of Mineclone2? mcl2 is currently facing a significant loss of quality and playability, causing servers to switch to alternatives one by one 19:20 sfan5 does it still identify itself as mcl2? I don't see a single mineclonia server on the list 19:20 sfan5 oh one actually 19:43 AristotIe is there a place where I can change how often water updates/flows 19:47 specing yeah, abm rate 20:04 independent56 why did minetest choose the port 30 K specifically? is it because the devs wer elike "fuck it, i like this port, its round, fuck it!" 20:10 MTDiscord Because its outside the range other services use 20:10 MTDiscord I think 20:28 ar10ch Can anyone help with mobs(_redo) ? I can't figure out how I can get the mob to check its surroundings (objects_inside_radius) repeatedly, on timer, instead of using a node/node_timer ? 20:45 calcul0n_ ar10ch, with entity:on_step handler ? 20:45 independent56 i have a max lag of 12. fucking hell! 20:46 independent56 someone needs to make a reitcher scale, but for max_lag. 20:46 independent56 anyways, question - in luacontrollers, how do i get the max_lag value? 20:46 ar10ch ah ok, thanks Calcul0n I'll give that a try 22:34 MTDiscord I'm pretty sure that luacontrollers don't have access to that info 22:34 MTDiscord you cant get max_lag without parsing /status 22:35 independent56 oh 22:35 MTDiscord there isnt even a api method for it 22:35 independent56 well goodnight, eyelids want to crash down 22:36 specing There's a mod to add a digiline lag something something 22:36 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11077#issuecomment-817931472 22:37 independent56 vodafone mobile data down in my location. meh 23:00 ghoti Is there a mod which will change body and head position when a player sneaks, sort of the way that commercial voxel engine does it? 23:03 specing ghoti: I think you'll lean forward when sneaking in mineclone 23:04 specing try it on clamity anarchy 23:04 ghoti Hmm, but that wouldn't be visible to other players not running mineclone, would it? 23:05 MTDiscord fly and swim for 3d armor has a sneak animation in the model, not sure if it supports it 23:14 specing ghoti: it's visible. Mineclone is a server-side game 23:23 erlehmann sfan5 just to show how broken mineclone2 is currently (master & production branches), while backporting the mcl_jukebox API to mineclonia we just figured out that the refactorig never worked correctly and broke all existing music records https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/82#issuecomment-24433 23:23 erlehmann so anyone who upgrades from mineclone2 0.71 to a hypothetical future version would have music records that are simply not accepted by the jukebox 23:24 luk3yx Could you tell the MineClone2 people about your findings so they can fix it? 23:24 erlehmann i have stopped doing that months ago when i got insults as answers for my suggestions to have mandatory code review 23:25 erlehmann also fleckenstein is aware of mineclonia and will see it eventually 23:26 erlehmann i do not believe mineclone2 is salvageable at this point, except for carefully cherry-picking commits 23:27 erlehmann and honestly, i got a conflict in the farming mod while cherry-picking mcl_jukebox changes 23:29 MTDiscord development of mineclonia seems very slow, and just a filtered backport of mineclone2, not that much it does itself and its not on cdb 23:30 erlehmann > filtered backport of mineclone2 23:30 erlehmann yes that 23:30 erlehmann plus some other things 23:30 erlehmann but honestly what do you want 23:30 erlehmann mineclone2 has cool stuff, but you just need to look at kay27 server to see where "lets merge all the cool features" leads 23:30 erlehmann that server crashes every full hour like clockwork. and often in between. 23:31 MTDiscord i mean, if your just going copy mineclone2, why should i use yours over theres? 23:31 MTDiscord personally, looking at both, there both dumpster fires 23:31 MTDiscord if your just going to filter upstream, as luk3yx said, seems better to contribute upstream 23:31 erlehmann Jonathon clamity did and got from "laggy, barely playable" to "minetest goes brrrrrrr" 23:32 erlehmann Jonathon look at the mineclone2 issue tracker. i am sure about 15 minutes with it will convince you that it is a dumpster fire. 23:32 MTDiscord if i recall correct they run master, and not releases 23:32 erlehmann there are no releases since 0.71, which was already full of gamebreaking bugs the mineclone2 team post-wuzzy-involvement did not notice 23:33 erlehmann for example, minecarts going off the rails if you pressed left or right 23:33 MTDiscord as i stated, both versions are dumpster fires 23:33 erlehmann or quartz and nether wart not generating at all 23:33 MTDiscord and if you want to fix yours, eventually you will probably be different enough you wont be able to backport/cherrypick changes 23:34 MTDiscord *with git 23:34 erlehmann well mineclonia is based on the last playable version of mineclone2 23:34 erlehmann playable as in "a few bugfixes away from good" 23:35 MTDiscord anyways, did you look into my suggested idea for fixing mods that need to depend on "mesecons" redstone? 23:35 erlehmann yes but i did not understand it 23:35 erlehmann Jonathon for contributing stuff to upstream, i tried that several times. one time, for example, i contributed a patch for the crash that happened if you pressed a button at the map border. 23:35 MTDiscord yeah, i noticed that 23:35 erlehmann instead of that fix, something that made buttons at the map border explode if you pressed them was committed first 23:36 erlehmann which introduces 2 more ways to crash the game lol 23:36 MTDiscord more like they messed up with git and you through a fit over it 23:36 erlehmann no? 23:36 erlehmann then the developer i had reported it to, jordan, crashed clamity server repeatedly and bragged about it on youtube 23:36 erlehmann or somethign 23:36 erlehmann look i know jordan won't do that anymore 23:37 MTDiscord i mean clamity is "anarchy" so anything is free game 23:37 erlehmann but don't tell me i should contribute to a hostile upstream 23:37 erlehmann i think crashing the server is generally frowned upon 23:37 erlehmann the point is it was not helpful 23:37 MTDiscord whatever, anyways, ill dm you about my idea if your not busy? 23:37 erlehmann some other change from me contained a bug that made banners not craftable 23:38 erlehmann but instead of reviewing it i was ridiculed for submitting it as plaintext 23:38 erlehmann so it was merged to mineclone2 and then banners are STILL not craftable to this day 23:38 erlehmann as far as i am aware) 23:38 erlehmann ( 23:38 erlehmann argl 23:39 MTDiscord yeah, yeah, anyways, mind if i dm ya? or got other things to attend to 23:39 erlehmann yeah dm me 23:39 erlehmann but stop suggesting to contribute to a hostile upstream 23:39 erlehmann i do not actually think they want to be "hostile" but it does not matter 23:40 erlehmann it is frustrating to backport even the simplest things 23:41 specing lol @ exploding buttons 23:42 erlehmann specing oh i bet it was funny for jordan! 23:43 erlehmann but think about what happens if you manage to chain the explosions 23:43 erlehmann at some point you overflow the stack 23:43 luk3yx I feel like Minetest has become a drama magnet 23:43 luk3yx Many Minetest-related projects suffer from lots of controversy and drama 23:44 erlehmann nah 23:44 erlehmann not true 23:44 luk3yx Even my statement about it is full of controversy 23:44 erlehmann those who really have drama simply do not survive long 23:45 erlehmann i am just ranting right now because i am very frustrated with what should be a simple cherry-pick of 2 commits. it turned out to be a multi-hour "oh wait this code never worked" thing. 23:51 luk3yx Can't everyone just have fun 23:52 luk3yx And not argue 23:52 erlehmann no 23:52 erlehmann i live in germany, fun is verboten 23:53 rubenwardy people are complicated, that'll never happen 23:53 specing erlehmann: haha, so true 23:53 MTDiscord as long as people have different viewpoints, arguments will happen 23:54 MTDiscord civil arguments are fine 23:55 erlehmann well i was called a terrorist for suggesting code reviews. guess i shouldn't have done that! 23:55 erlehmann also i like arguing too, but it's tiring 23:55 erlehmann and it should go somewhere 23:55 erlehmann pointless bickering is for those two muppets that sit on the balcony, i forgot their names