Time Nick Message 00:06 DS-minetest nevermind, I've found it. what I was searching for was the camera offset 00:30 absurb will minetest ever have an auto-updater? 00:32 VanessaE that's your OS's job 00:32 VanessaE applications should not have their own updaters. 00:33 DS-minetest + 01:52 absurb sure, but windows doesn't have one and microsoft ain't gonna add it any time soon 01:53 absurb relying on microsoft to do this is foolish 01:53 VanessaE get a better OS. 01:54 TommyTreasure batch files on a schedule should work fine 01:55 absurb i admire your integrity and your strong activist stances, like an ant pushing a tricycle, but let's be practical here 01:55 VanessaE ... 01:55 absurb unless minetest gets put on steam, it's going to be a black sheep among other applications which do have autoupdaters 01:55 VanessaE so who's gonna pay for it? 01:55 TommyTreasure write a batch file to do the upgrading for you 01:55 VanessaE and for it to get on the apple store properly? 01:56 VanessaE and all the other places people want, where it costs money? 01:56 VanessaE (I assume it costs on steam) 01:57 absurb i have no idea how it works on steam anymore, after the greenlight system went kaput and steam became a free-for-all for developers 01:57 TommyTreasure btw, what part of minetest are you wanting to have upgraded automatically 01:57 VanessaE like I said, it's the OS's job to update applications. for an application to be able to do so itself implies that it must occasionally get root/admin level access 01:58 TommyTreasure if i recall, the main game engine is only released 2 times a year in the stable version 01:58 VanessaE (on a properly-functioning OS anyway) 01:58 VanessaE TommyTreasure: close to that yeah 01:58 TommyTreasure so what's the issue? doesn't seem to make sense 01:59 TommyTreasure mods are the equiv to other games' 3rd party plugins, 01:59 TommyTreasure and some you many not want to auto upgrade without verifying they work properly 02:00 TommyTreasure either way, some sort of batch file or script will do the upgrade for you 02:00 VanessaE I just run a script when I want to update all my mods, which reaches out to github/gitlab/etc, and that script is quite simple. 02:01 TommyTreasure there are some mods you need to be careful with upgrades, especially when they merge or push a branch into master, and you don't follow through with your research 02:01 VanessaE yep 02:01 absurb i like that, keeping lua mods updated automatically 02:02 absurb that's something an OS will never do for you 02:02 MTDiscord you can update via cdb 02:02 MTDiscord if you really dont like git 02:02 TommyTreasure i hate to say this, but there's one mod that has changed its master branch just this week. if you auto-upgrade that one, you now have a very broken mod 02:02 VanessaE absurb: fail. I could just tie that script to crontab and have it run daily, weekly... hell, every 17 minutes if I wanted. 02:03 TommyTreasure lol, full game backup every 15 minutes 02:03 absurb you and i are programmers, most people toying with minetest aren't going to have the expertise for this 02:03 TommyTreasure i'm not a programmer 02:04 VanessaE I'm a programmer but it doesn't take a programmer to write a script like I use. 02:04 TommyTreasure dos batch file programming is very hard to learn, and neither are the basic bash commands for linux scripts 02:04 TommyTreasure isn't* 02:04 absurb heh, i admire your faith in humanity 02:04 TommyTreasure fat finger <<<<< 02:04 VanessaE and it would be trivial for the minetest devs to include it with the engine if they wanted. 02:05 MTDiscord update via cdb for people who dont have a brain is my suggestion 02:05 VanessaE John: right 02:05 TommyTreasure cdb isn't automated, as they're looking to do 02:05 absurb heh 02:06 * VanessaE sighd 02:06 * VanessaE sighs 02:06 TommyTreasure from my old fidonet/bbs days -- the most lazy sysop has the largest autoexec.bat file 02:06 VanessaE haha 02:06 absurb holy shit lmao 02:06 absurb some people, i swear to god 02:06 VanessaE TommyTreasure: or the largest collection of scripts :) 02:07 TommyTreasure i ran a multinode bbs, with a binkleyterm mailer front end, using a lantastic network, and all nodes booted and ran from floppy 02:07 MTDiscord i mean, its not auto update, but its pressing a button 02:07 VanessaE exactly. 02:07 TommyTreasure took time to write the batch files, but it ran for years 02:08 VanessaE absurb: in any case if you think it's so important, go file an issue on github. 02:08 VanessaE maybe the devs will agree. 02:09 VanessaE (but I doubt it 02:09 VanessaE ) 02:09 absurb honestly i'm too lazy, it's such a minor detail 02:09 TommyTreasure as for minetest moving to steam, i doubt that very much. that's not a very good move for a game that steam can't make money for access 02:09 absurb if nobody else has cared, i certainly won't 02:09 VanessaE well then don't complain here about it. 02:09 absurb i'm not complaining 02:09 VanessaE either help or gtfo. 02:09 MTDiscord honestly tho, someone should shove the concept of not outdate as heck software down linux package maintainers throats 02:09 absurb i was asking if there were existing plans for it 02:09 VanessaE (and yes, filing issues, done properly, is helping)_ 02:10 VanessaE [03-21 21:55] i admire your integrity and your strong activist stances, like an ant pushing a tricycle, but let's be practical here 02:10 VanessaE [03-21 21:55] unless minetest gets put on steam, it's going to be a black sheep among other applications which do have autoupdaters 02:10 VanessaE yeah, nop. 02:10 VanessaE this ^ is not "asking" 02:10 MTDiscord there was talk in a github issue for windows updates if i recall correctly, but not linux because package maintainers would scream 02:10 absurb i WAS asking 02:10 VanessaE besides, Windows has a software store don't they? 02:10 MTDiscord its a joke lol 02:10 absurb lol 02:10 VanessaE doesn't it* 02:10 absurb windows store is awful 02:11 MTDiscord some fool is selling 5.2 on it no less 02:11 absurb never ever use it ever 02:11 VanessaE some of us just run a decent OS :) 02:11 VanessaE (Debian ftw) 02:11 absurb sure 02:11 MTDiscord the most outdated one ever 02:12 absurb anyway, bots is my hot issue i want to push for 02:12 VanessaE John: nah, not if you run the testing branch 02:12 VanessaE that's about as up-to-date as any other distro while being pretty stable. 02:12 MTDiscord hmm 02:13 TommyTreasure i'll stick with my palm pilot 02:13 VanessaE heh 02:13 absurb excuse me why hasn't minetest been compiled for TempleOS? y'all are real slackers 02:13 MTDiscord :thonking: 02:13 VanessaE wtf is TempleOS? 02:14 absurb damn 02:14 MTDiscord a meme more or less 02:14 absurb yeah, it's a meme OS created by a schizophrenic man 02:14 VanessaE heh 02:14 MTDiscord i mean, its pretty impressive what he did do from scratch ish 02:17 absurb kinda. it took him 10 years to essentially create something on-par with the C64's "Kernal" on x86 02:20 absurb i'm literally shaking rn i can't believe minetest is not on gaystation and xcocks noooooooooooo 02:20 VanessaE wtf 02:21 MTDiscord :NowHwhatTheHeck: 02:21 MTDiscord seems just ment to provoke tbh 02:21 TommyTreasure well, that kills my interest here for the day. g'nite all 02:21 VanessaE night Tom. 02:21 absurb shitposting aside, i recall there was discussion on how to properly implement mobs in the engine, or some kind of API for it 02:21 MTDiscord looks at mobkit 02:22 absurb mobkit is hot ngl 02:22 VanessaE or TenPlus1's mobs 02:22 MTDiscord no, just no 02:23 VanessaE what? mobs_redo works pretty well I thought. 02:23 VanessaE my players seem to like it 02:23 MTDiscord Your players also dont care about massive load times and shoddy performance 02:23 VanessaE hey now 02:23 MTDiscord limiting and overhead you dont need 02:23 MTDiscord mobs_redo = lag 02:23 MTDiscord its a simple equation 02:24 MTDiscord lol 02:24 VanessaE how is mobkit any better tho? 02:24 MTDiscord It isnt, really 02:24 MTDiscord It is also a mess 02:24 MTDiscord People that praise it like the best replacement ever just want something different 02:24 MTDiscord it does give you way more control 02:24 MTDiscord and less overhead 02:24 MTDiscord Sure, it has upsides 02:24 MTDiscord But it also has downsides glances at code 02:25 MTDiscord also, is there a mod you dont have something to complain about? 02:25 VanessaE heh 02:25 MTDiscord Sure. Bakedclay. 02:25 VanessaE he'd complain about ilights too :) 02:25 MTDiscord *non simple mod? 02:26 absurb i suppose a large contention about mobs is in how it would be implemented into the base game if it were implemented in any official capacity 02:26 VanessaE it never will be 02:26 absurb yeah 02:26 VanessaE because "the base game" is frozen 02:26 MTDiscord How do you define non-simple, wsor? 02:26 MTDiscord more than registering basic nodes 02:26 MTDiscord WorldEdit is pretty solid 02:26 VanessaE engine devs want people to play other MT-related games, not just mtg 02:27 MTDiscord hmm, yeah 02:27 MTDiscord Ethereal is absurd in a lot of places but functionally reasonable 02:27 VanessaE (which is to say they don't like that minetest_gam is considered the "base game". 02:27 MTDiscord tho it has stagnated in terms of new commands 02:27 absurb shit, when i say "base game" i meant the engine 02:27 MTDiscord Villages is alright too 02:27 absurb i kinda didn't want to imply the C++ part of the engine, though 02:27 MTDiscord nothing is perfect ?‍♂️ 02:28 MTDiscord People should use the term "builtin" more often ;p 02:28 MTDiscord ^ 02:28 MTDiscord builtin is the Lua part of the engine 02:28 VanessaE absurb: it would take both. the engine would need changes, and games would need to supply the content i.e. that actual models/textures/behavior 02:28 MTDiscord >engine change 02:28 absurb of course 02:28 MTDiscord doubt 02:28 MTDiscord Oh, also Air Sword is obviously the most perfect mod in the world. 02:28 MTDiscord Literally no flaws 02:29 absurb what games do with mobs isn't particularly important for now 02:29 MTDiscord its the most efficient mod for minetest ever 02:29 VanessaE Green: I mean for what he wants, which is obviously motion/paths and AI as part of the engine, and general behavior, look, etc being part of the game 02:29 MTDiscord > i kinda didn't want to imply the C++ part of the engine, though 02:29 VanessaE no, but that's still what it would take 02:29 absurb yeah 02:29 MTDiscord Why? 02:29 VanessaE otherwise if it's all Lua it may as well continue to be a mod. 02:30 MTDiscord Well of course 02:30 MTDiscord builtin is basically mods 02:30 VanessaE which means it has no point in being part of the engine package. 02:30 MTDiscord Correct 02:31 MTDiscord The only thing the engine needs is better default pathfinding. I mean you can make super fast Lua pathfinding, but it would still be even better if the engine did it right 02:31 VanessaE *nod* 02:31 MTDiscord Entities already have the capacity to be amazing mobs, people are just bad at using them 02:31 absurb personally i don't think the engine would need many changes, except improvements to the pathfinding algorithm. mod makers have shown they can already build the whole API in lua 02:32 MTDiscord Also no mob implementation has utilized an Entity Component System, which would seriously boost performance 02:34 MTDiscord (re perfect mods: Digilines is pretty good, ignoring the fact that it uses Mesecon style wiring. Hoppers also work just fine.) 02:34 absurb building it into the engine would definitely allow for performance boosts which mods and games can't accomplish alone 02:34 absurb the reason i think adding something like this would be worthwhile is because it would be utilized the same way, for example, privileges are 02:35 absurb a centralized way which would let mods work with each other and not clash 02:35 absurb mobs using two entirely separate systems would have completely unknown interactions, if at all 02:35 absurb if any at all* 02:36 absurb i hope i speak for everyone when i say mob infighting is fun to watch and even more fun to instigate 02:37 absurb but, like i said, i think there would be too much disagreement on how it should be implemented. and besides, API mods seem to work well enough for this 04:44 LoneWolfHT Is it just me or is this user broken? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=376792#p376792 05:03 luk3yx Could it be a deleted user? 14:32 MTDiscord It looks like the server list might be ignoring the Accept-Encoding header when deciding whether to return the server list JSON gzipped. 14:33 MTDiscord (either it or some reverse proxy or CDN or something) 14:34 sfan5 entirely possible 14:35 MTDiscord It does now strike me as a bit odd that --compressed is not enabled by default in my curl cmdline tool. 14:36 MTDiscord HTTP requests w/o compression support are pretty much an anachronism these days 14:38 MTDiscord Compressed responses w/o compression-enabled requests is definitely wrong, but I don't know if it's really worth fixing anyway. 14:38 sfan5 should be fixed now anyway 14:38 MTDiscord Oh, thanks 16:21 tech_exorcist where is Minetest's client↔server communication protocol's documentation, if there is any? 16:25 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt 16:31 tech_exorcist thanks! :D 21:51 sfan5 somewhat interesting: map positions mapped to heat (X) and humidity (Y) used by biome gen thus showing a Voronoi diagram of biomes 21:51 sfan5 https://i.imgur.com/wOCNukS.png 22:34 leo_rockway I thought the biome transition was subtle, not sharp like that. 22:34 leo_rockway unless that's not minetest? 22:38 sfan5 the heat/humidity noise takes care of subtle transitions, here it's just a linear function 22:41 MTDiscord it's a verynoice diagram 22:52 leo_rockway sfan5: gotcha. Thanks. 23:20 Herkules Hello, i have a quick modding question: 23:20 Herkules Is there a method or function that gives me the unix-timestamp? 23:22 sfan5 os.time(os.date("!*t")) 23:23 sfan5 or maybe just os.time() 23:23 sfan5 (I googled "lua unix time" for that) 23:25 Herkules Thank you very much for that quick answer. It does work :) 23:26 Herkules Now i look like a fool. I somehow thought that i can't call os in my mods. 23:26 sfan5 they're indeed sandboxed but harmless functions are left in 23:27 Herkules Nice to know for future projects.