Time Nick Message 00:33 Gustavo6046 Is it just me or are caves spawning on every power of 2 depth? 00:33 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: unless we abstract the scripting API in a glue-code-agnostic way. 00:33 Gustavo6046 Although that will be difficult, given Lua's idiosyncrasies. 00:33 Gustavo6046 We could also target a more "common" format, like WebAssembly, and let the developer choose the language. 00:46 Hawk777 That sounds nice TBH. But it would still require maintaining two scripting connections (unless Lua has a WASM backend?) in order to not break everything that ever existed, and I’d personally still rather the core devs spent their time on other choices from the pile of open tickets. 00:48 Hawk777 Abstracting things doesn’t help the matter because the MT devs would still have to maintain the abstraction and its two implementations. 00:49 Hawk777 I’d say it’s also beneficial that, with only a single language option, modders can all read each other’s code. 01:02 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: it is not necessary, if we can create the Lua backend as mere glue code for a universal scripting API 01:02 Gustavo6046 I THINK it would be easier to have the legacy API untouched 01:02 Gustavo6046 but Lua-only 01:02 Hawk777 You keep saying “mere glue code” as if mere glue code doesn’t need maintenance :) 01:02 Gustavo6046 and have the universal API have all these goodies 01:02 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: it doesn't 01:03 Gustavo6046 The moving parts it glues do. 01:03 Gustavo6046 And we don't maintain Lua, do we? 01:03 Hawk777 Well, I guess we disagree then. 01:03 Gustavo6046 The Lua glue code would allow access for both the universal API and the legacy API. Sounds convoluted, but it's for a reason -- it makes it only one part that needs to be maintained with respect to changing Lua versions. 01:04 Hawk777 Changing Lua versions? I thought the core devs had already decided they would never go beyond Lua 5.1 because of compat breaks in the Lua stdlib. 01:04 Gustavo6046 Lua is very, very awful when it comes to backward compatibility, which is just yet another reason I would gradually phase it out, or at least give it less attention or something, in favour of JavaScript. 01:04 Hawk777 I.e. stuff which has nothing to do with Minetest being taken away and breaking mods/games. 01:05 Gustavo6046 Welp 01:05 Gustavo6046 I already stated 01:05 Gustavo6046 The legacy API will be left untouched 01:05 Gustavo6046 so existing mods and games will work perfectly 01:05 Gustavo6046 PLUS, this also guarantees they will never break! 01:05 Gustavo6046 In the universal API we can emphasize on long-term forawrd/backward compatibility 01:06 Gustavo6046 by making certain features behave differently depending on the API version 01:06 Hawk777 And… now you have a translation layer, which implements the legacy API in terms of the new API. And every time you rework the new API, you have to update the translation layer to match. 01:08 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: nono 01:08 Gustavo6046 the legacy API does not need to be implemented in terms of the new API 01:08 Gustavo6046 Both are interfaces to the game's mechanics 01:08 Hawk777 OK… so now every time you want to refactor game engine internals, you have to update both consumers instead of just one? 01:09 Gustavo6046 psst 01:09 Gustavo6046 glue code :PP 01:09 Gustavo6046 lol 01:09 Gustavo6046 I think I'm starting to get your point. 01:09 Gustavo6046 Being modular is good 01:10 Gustavo6046 Instead of updating the consumers, just have them access the game's interface? So the game mechanics will themselves be responsible to maintain backwards compatibility, to not break either. 01:10 Gustavo6046 We can still deprecate features, but if we remove any we must reflect that in both API codes. 01:11 Gustavo6046 I think "glue code" is a bit misleading, C++ does it for you in the form of classes -- templating, abstract classes, the numerous ways to perform dynamic dispatching... you get the point. 01:11 Hawk777 Sure. You can only make that if you can predict the shapes of things well enough to make it future-proof. 01:12 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Also we're stuck at 5.1 lua anyways, because the just in time compiler is at 5.1 01:12 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: it's easier if the game internals are separated from the details exposed to the scripting engine. So, say, if in the future "mapblocks" are internally reinvented as "chunks" or whatever, the scripts can still refer to the new ones as they have ever done to the old ones. To the modder, they're still as mappy and blocky as they've ever been. 01:13 Gustavo6046 Yeah, LuaJIT's main contributor has retired from the project 01:13 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> And JIT lua is only 30% slower than straight up C code. And no, he came back early this year 01:13 Gustavo6046 So don't expect much updates to come from that 01:13 Gustavo6046 oh? 01:13 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Yeah he's working on the garbage collector 01:13 Gustavo6046 JS has a more active scene and community. That and other reasons is why I think it would be far more modder-friendly. If you ask me, anyway. 01:14 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> JS is the most moving target in the universe 01:14 Gustavo6046 But including it without breaking existing mods nor doubling the required effort will be complicated. We'll need a battle plan. 01:14 Gustavo6046 exe_virus: yes it is 01:14 Gustavo6046 but we don't need to support the new ESes 01:14 Gustavo6046 We can use an embedded interpreter, like QuickJS 01:14 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Then why leave lua, we don't need to support 5.2+ 01:14 Gustavo6046 It's not just about that 01:14 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> QuickJS will be slower 01:14 Gustavo6046 JavaScript is more programmer-friendly 01:14 Gustavo6046 Yes, but not by a significant amount 01:14 Hawk777 No. 01:15 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Lua is pretty damn friendly 01:15 Gustavo6046 Lua is not programmer-friendly, at all. 01:15 Hawk777 I’m a programmer, and I like Javascript less than Lua, ergo you are wrong. 01:15 blaise javascript is shit. 01:15 Gustavo6046 Many Lua programmers have departed for JavaScript. 01:15 Hawk777 See how this is all personal opinions? 01:15 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: hm 01:15 Gustavo6046 that is a point 01:15 Gustavo6046 People will inevitably have different opinions 01:15 Hawk777 “Which language is better?” is always a personal opinion thing. 01:15 Gustavo6046 Yeah 01:15 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> I have done both, and C, and java, and so on. Lua is perfect for mods, and javascript is made for web, simply put 01:16 Gustavo6046 exe_virus: JavaScript was made to be an embeddable scripting language, in this case for web browsers. 01:16 Gustavo6046 Legends say it would be more Lua-like, if Netscape hadn't demanded it be "more Java-like". 01:16 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Fair but it's made with the assumption of multithreaded 01:16 blaise nah, ANSI C (C#) is miles better than turbo pascal, or basic, or many others 01:16 Gustavo6046 Hence the name 01:16 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Everything in games is basically single threaded 01:16 blaise that isn't an opinion. 01:16 Gustavo6046 Isn't JavaScript single-thread-only? (and async) 01:16 Gustavo6046 Kinda like Python's GIL 01:16 Gustavo6046 blaise: C# != C 01:16 Gustavo6046 C# is kinda bad 01:17 Gustavo6046 exe_virus: JS is single-threaded 01:17 specing someone been badmouthing lua? 01:17 blaise it's a standard that all other implementations of C are expected to conform to 01:17 Gustavo6046 It uses an event loop to make more use of that CPU usage 01:17 Hawk777 WTF? “C# is kinda bad”? I’m not the biggest fan of it, but at least it’s statically typed, which JS isn’t. 01:17 Gustavo6046 I think it supports more threads, though 01:17 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Ah, that makes sense 01:17 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: good point 01:17 Hawk777 Um no, C# and C are totally different languages. 01:18 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Truth 01:18 Gustavo6046 blaise: C# is a Java-like language designed by Microsoft 01:18 Gustavo6046 I think you're thinking of C++. 01:18 Gustavo6046 C and C++ are both standardized. 01:18 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Java ~= javascript 01:18 Gustavo6046 I couldn't care the least about regulatory bodies like ANSI. 01:18 blaise borland C is completely different from C... 01:18 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> C# just has four plusses instead of two 01:18 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> C++ is still, to this day, a cluster though 01:18 Gustavo6046 They can shove their shiny language standards and revisions up their own Firewire ports for all I care. 01:18 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Like I would expect all the implementations to be standardized by now, but nope. 01:18 Gustavo6046 exe_virus: true 01:19 Gustavo6046 Different C++ standard libraries have wildly different ranges of support 01:19 blaise it's kind of insane.. 01:19 Gustavo6046 It does happen a bit with things like JavaScript too, though 01:19 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> And I'm a fan of C++, but like dang, why can't it be simple yet 01:19 Gustavo6046 I imagine not with Lua since it has an ACTUAL reference implementation. 01:19 Gustavo6046 exe_virus: C++ is complicated by definition. Literally. It's a LOT more complicated to parse and compile than C. 01:19 Gustavo6046 I'm fine with it, but I think C++ is not superior to C, because it has tradebacks. 01:20 Gustavo6046 Especially when it comes to size. C++ is a behemoth, which is usually not a Very Good Thing(TM). 01:20 blaise indeed 01:20 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> True, though I mean chromium is the best example of what c++ can be 01:20 blaise but everything has it's use case.. 01:20 Hawk777 Personally when I tried writing some code in C after working in C++ for a long time, I was just so sad about how much boilerplate I had to write. 01:20 Hawk777 Really? No RAII? 01:20 Hawk777 Sadness. 01:20 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Its like 10MB of total power 01:20 Gustavo6046 blaise: that is true 01:20 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: that is true 01:20 Gustavo6046 quite a bit of boilerplate in C 01:21 Gustavo6046 I'm not a fan of boilerplate either 01:21 Gustavo6046 But I think you're supposed to do the boilerplate only in some parts of the code (main-level or something) 01:21 Gustavo6046 and then you write the meat and potatoes of the program in a lower level, without classes or whatnot. 01:21 blaise Gustavo6046: you could always go pure assembly? XD 01:21 Gustavo6046 blaise: true 01:21 Gustavo6046 but C is basically a prettified assembly 01:22 Gustavo6046 there's little point in using assembly rather than C 01:22 Hawk777 No no, it’s things like resource management. With C you have to remember to manually release resources (free memory, close file handles, whatever) in both the success and failure paths. In C++ both are handled by RAII. 01:22 Gustavo6046 especially today with C compilers often optimizing the code more than a manual assembly programmer could ever do on their own 01:22 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: only for heap-allocated objects 01:23 Gustavo6046 local variables are automatically handled by scope 01:23 blaise yeah, well.. C wouldn't have gotten to where it's at without people that know how to code in ASM 01:23 Gustavo6046 you'd be surprised how much stuff can be moved to the stack. 01:23 Gustavo6046 (and faster than heap) 01:23 Hawk777 File handles can’t be “moved to the stack”. 01:23 Hawk777 Nor can dynamically sized containers. 01:23 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: true and true 01:23 Gustavo6046 those do get a bit boilerplatey 01:24 Gustavo6046 I think std::vector was one of the first things C++ had? 01:24 Gustavo6046 specifically because of that 01:24 Gustavo6046 Whoa 01:25 Gustavo6046 this lua API is beautiful 01:25 Gustavo6046 I don't know what i was expecting 01:25 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> define 'beauty' 01:25 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> personally, i hate lua 01:25 Gustavo6046 it looks extraordinarily clean 01:25 Gustavo6046 I mean, compared to ordinary Lua code 01:25 Gustavo6046 it almost doesn't look lie Lua 01:25 Gustavo6046 like* 01:26 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> so by inheritance, i hate the lua api 01:26 Gustavo6046 oneplustwo: you were smiling in chat up to this point, weren't you. 01:26 Gustavo6046 There's no such thing 01:26 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> smiling? 01:26 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> at what? 01:26 Gustavo6046 at me trash talking Lua 01:26 Gustavo6046 I don't like Lua 01:26 Gustavo6046 but this API is a pretty good 01:26 Gustavo6046 design 01:26 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> why would i smile? 01:26 Gustavo6046 happiness? 01:26 Gustavo6046 approval? 01:26 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> lol 01:27 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> IMO Lua has the simplest syntax out of every scripting language I ever learned or tried 01:27 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> the only thing i smile at is when i delete the print statements and stack overflow tabs after i finish debugging 01:28 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> i dont understand why they have to use "end" to end a function 01:28 Gustavo6046 too simple 01:28 Gustavo6046 oneplustwo: yeah I like that feeling too 01:28 Gustavo6046 like "ahh, finally I figured out this bloody bugger" 01:28 Gustavo6046 Helenah: do I sound british enough? :P 01:29 Gustavo6046 (I'm not) 01:29 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> Bash uses 'fi' which makes even less sense (yeah I know if backwards but no actual word) 01:29 MTDiscord <04o​neplustwo> if you want to sound british, you either need to emulate the upper-class or the coal miners, no in-between 01:30 Gustavo6046 lol 01:30 Gustavo6046 oneplustwo: you mean the distinction lies at y=-1024? 01:32 Gustavo6046 So 01:33 Gustavo6046 how do I assign a timeout to a farming:soil? 01:33 Gustavo6046 Is the param2 vacant? 01:33 Gustavo6046 or something? 01:33 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> nodeetimers? 01:33 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> *nodetimers 01:33 Gustavo6046 I probably want to learn how to get a block's parameter with the api first 01:34 Gustavo6046 Well, I wanted it to be a parameter of the block 01:34 Gustavo6046 If it has air above, it decrements till it reaches 0, then I can do stuff on the block. 01:34 Gustavo6046 above it* 01:34 Gustavo6046 If it doesn't, the timer is reset to a N 01:34 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ 01:34 Gustavo6046 ? 01:34 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> a nice prettified api reference 01:34 Gustavo6046 Ah 01:34 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> may be useful for you 01:36 Gustavo6046 thanks! 01:37 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> Node parameters cannot be changed during runtime...to have additional dynamic data use nodemeta 01:39 blaise I do like GO 01:39 blaise it's nifty.. :) 01:40 Gustavo6046 Golang? 01:40 Gustavo6046 Mehh. 01:40 Gustavo6046 It's fine. 01:41 blaise grinch 01:42 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> while we are at new api fantasies, i would like to start a shitstorm by suggesting python 01:42 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> forces clean indentation 01:42 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> But I code using nano 01:43 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> tata nano? 01:43 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> pardon me 01:43 blaise hahahaha 01:43 blaise nano... what a crying shame 01:43 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> but what is it? 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> oof 01:44 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> GNU nano only allows a few tabs per screen 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> rip 01:44 blaise it's the text entry program from the pine MTA 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> ah 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> thanks 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> brain fart there 01:44 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> sorry 01:44 blaise they seperated it when alpine became a thing 01:45 Gustavo6046 So like this? 01:45 Gustavo6046 https://termbin.com/2apr 01:45 blaise most people only used it when dialed into a bbs via modem or terminal node controler/packet access 01:45 Gustavo6046 although 01:45 Gustavo6046 I modified existing cocde 01:45 Gustavo6046 https://github.com/PilzAdam/farming_plus/blob/master/weed.lua is the original 01:46 blaise these days we have much better tools to work with.. vim or emacs being amongst the most popular 01:47 Gustavo6046 I use micro 01:47 Gustavo6046 not vim or emacs or nano 01:47 Gustavo6046 but vim is fine I guess 01:47 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> i use gedit 01:47 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> light and fast 01:47 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> with awesome synctex 01:47 Gustavo6046 when it comes to GUI tools I either use mousepad (for writing simple text files or tiny projects) or VS Code (the OSS fork) 01:47 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> with awesome synctex 01:47 Gustavo6046 discord has s/// syntax, doesn't it? 01:48 blaise Gustavo6046: micro? 01:48 Gustavo6046 it should let you double-check your edits, and support editing messages other than the last 01:48 Gustavo6046 blaise: yeah 01:48 Gustavo6046 it's written in go I think 01:48 blaise url? 01:48 blaise I prefer vim 01:48 Gustavo6046 https://micro-editor.github.io/ 01:48 Gustavo6046 eh I prefer micro 01:48 Gustavo6046 it's simpler to use, but not necesasrily stripped down like nano 01:48 Gustavo6046 and has a plugin interface, kinda like Vim does 01:48 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> nano is my choice cause it is very barebones while still supporting the most needed features (search by term/line, replace, syntax highlighting) 01:49 blaise interesting 01:49 Gustavo6046 but anyways 01:49 Hawk777 Are we just having all the holy wars at the same time in this channel now? We’ve done programming languages, now we’re on text editors, I suppose tabs-vs-spaces will show up next. 01:49 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: xD 01:49 Gustavo6046 I like 4 spaces 01:49 Hawk777 I like tabs. 01:49 Gustavo6046 I think spaces have already won a long time ago-- 01:49 Hawk777 But rendered as four spaces. 01:49 Gustavo6046 oh. 01:49 blaise CRLF vs CR 01:49 Gustavo6046 Exactly 01:50 Hawk777 Oh no, another one! 01:50 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> I like newlines 01:50 Gustavo6046 I like tabs but CONVERTED to four spaces. 01:50 blaise heh 01:50 Gustavo6046 IhrFussel: I like BEL 01:50 Gustavo6046 fite me 01:50 Gustavo6046 fite me and my typewriter with a literal physical bell! 01:50 Gustavo6046 dingdingding 01:50 blaise :D 01:50 blaise how about irc clients? 01:50 Hawk777 I don’t like the converted. I feel that storing as TAB means I’m being nice to people reading my code, because depending on their eyesight, the nature of their brain, the size of their monitor, font size, font selection, etc. etc. etc. they can choose whatever indentation level per scope they find makes the code easiest to read, without modifying the physical file. 01:51 Gustavo6046 I think there's a right way to store indentation 01:51 Gustavo6046 screw individualism /s 01:51 Gustavo6046 just kidding 01:51 Gustavo6046 I just don't like there being a separate character specifically to store indentation 01:51 * blaise uses kvirc for GUI, but in CLI will use EPIC with amnesiac script 01:51 Gustavo6046 or generalizing indentation as tabulation at all 01:51 Gustavo6046 I use weechat for IRC 01:52 Gustavo6046 I also use Manjaro Linux, don't murder me over it 01:52 blaise heh 01:52 * blaise uses gentoo 01:52 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> I use...discord for IRC 01:52 Hawk777 Gentoo FTW. 01:53 Gustavo6046 Also 01:53 Gustavo6046 tabs can screw up code if it's posted online 01:53 Gustavo6046 like in a pastebin or something 01:53 Gustavo6046 or in forums 01:53 Gustavo6046 I'd rather expand directly in the file than do it every single time to share it online 01:53 blaise depends on the service and tool 01:53 blaise hastebin actually does pretty good with it 01:53 Gustavo6046 ah 01:53 Gustavo6046 yeah but hastebin is good 01:53 Hawk777 So can spaces if you’re using a shitty web service (i.e. one that doesn’t have support for preformatted code so all multiple spaces turn into a single space per HTML rules). And if you use a nonshitty one, tabs are fine. 01:54 Gustavo6046 too bad it's kind of down often but still 01:54 blaise wgetpaste and dpaste tends to muck it up pretty bad 01:54 Gustavo6046 good services 01:54 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: nah 01:54 Gustavo6046 most of them don't allow configuring tabs 01:54 Gustavo6046 (which is why you prefer tabs to begin with, isn't it? user configurability) 01:54 Gustavo6046 in fact, I'd say MOST programs and places in general don't allow configuring tabs, except for text editors and some programming-specific places (like GitHub) 01:54 Gustavo6046 It's just not a very common concern. 01:55 blaise Gustavo6046: you can set up your own hastebin server.. 01:55 Gustavo6046 blaise: I'm referring to the main service, but yeah I forgot about that detail 01:55 blaise :) 01:55 Hawk777 Just because one specific tool that might be used for viewing a file doesn’t allow configuring tab width, doesn’t mean I should avoid catering to the other 99% of tools that do (i.e. just because web services don’t, doesn’t mean I should harm people using text editors, which are by far the more common way to look at source code files) 01:55 Gustavo6046 :D 01:55 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: except, it's not tooling 01:55 Gustavo6046 it's everything else 01:55 Gustavo6046 tabs are not very popular nowadays 01:55 Gustavo6046 ASCII control characters are overrated 01:55 blaise as far as coding, there was a tool I liked using in X considerably more than working from CLI 01:56 Gustavo6046 they're a fad, a relic from a distant past 01:56 blaise can't remember what it was called but it supported pretty much everything 01:56 Gustavo6046 I'm glad Unicode does not include extra tabulation. 01:56 Gustavo6046 (I think it doesn't) 01:56 Gustavo6046 Horizontal tabulation, thati 01:56 Gustavo6046 s 01:56 Hawk777 It’s a freaking text file. There’s the language interpreter, which doesn’t care one way or the other, and there are text editors and viewers, which by and large allow configuring tab size. 01:56 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: no they don't 01:57 Gustavo6046 most don't 01:57 Gustavo6046 or do 01:57 Gustavo6046 I guess most text editors do 01:57 Hawk777 Let’s see. vim does. emacs does. notepad++ does. Visual Studio Code does. 01:57 Gustavo6046 micro does too 01:57 Gustavo6046 but the thing is 01:57 blaise maybe it was visual studio code? 01:57 Gustavo6046 you don't want your code to only be readable in the text editor 01:57 Gustavo6046 what if you have to email patches to a mailing list and have it be reviewed? 01:57 Gustavo6046 what if you want it to put in any of the hundred pastebin services available online to show others? 01:58 Gustavo6046 "[pastebin link] look at how big my wiener is!" "lol what" "oh wait... it's kind of... deflated. ew. what." 01:58 blaise Gustavo6046: most people expect diff format 01:58 blaise seriously 01:58 Gustavo6046 ? 01:58 blaise anything other than that is insulting 01:58 Gustavo6046 what does that have to do with tabs or spacers 01:58 Hawk777 If I want to show other people my files, I’ll push them to a Git repo and they can clone it thank you very much. 01:58 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: just use github gist 01:58 blaise "what if you have to email patches to a mailing list and have it be reviewed? 01:58 blaise " 01:58 Gustavo6046 or termbin 01:58 Gustavo6046 I am in a haste 01:59 Gustavo6046 don't have time to open up A BROWSER just to put code up in the webz 01:59 Gustavo6046 blaise: yes 01:59 Gustavo6046 talking about email clients 01:59 blaise ah... 01:59 Gustavo6046 which there are hundreds upon hundreds of that are used by lots of people 01:59 blaise I run postfix and sendmail manually from the cli 01:59 blaise XD 01:59 Gustavo6046 including community managers and project maintainers and reviewers and whatnot 01:59 Hawk777 Besides, if I put it on the web with four spaces, anyone who finds four spaces suboptimal to read is still s*** out of luck. 01:59 Gustavo6046 oh yest 01:59 Gustavo6046 the CLI 02:00 Gustavo6046 the biggest felonies you can have in tab land. 02:00 Hawk777 Except now anyone who finds it suboptimal to read is *still* out of luck even if they read from a text editor. 02:00 blaise just kidding, I use claws 02:00 Hawk777 blaise: Are you sure you’re not my clone? 02:00 Gustavo6046 somehow they are all born in the very crib that tabs vs spaces was born at to begin with. 02:00 Hawk777 Gentoo *and* claws? 02:00 Gustavo6046 the good old teletypewriter. 02:00 blaise lol 02:00 Gustavo6046 geez that's pointy, put those claws away from me 02:01 Gustavo6046 lol 02:01 blaise it's the only email client I can find that properly supports proper certificate checking and gpg 02:01 Gustavo6046 micro has tabstospaces (which I just set to false) but no spacestotabs 02:01 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: Noh!~ I would feel defeated if I were to succumb to tabulation devices this easily! Me of all people! 02:02 Gustavo6046 blaise: I use mutt and exim 02:02 Gustavo6046 using Gmail as a router so I don't have to mess with ISP level stuff 02:03 Gustavo6046 by the way send some random stuff to contact@gustavo6046.cf just to make sure it still works, I transitioned the DNS handling from Freenom to FreeDNS lately 02:03 Gustavo6046 (the domain still is Freenom though, and it's a temporary one) 02:03 Gustavo6046 (except it's until I get a source of income, so "temporary" is a bit optimistic) 02:03 blaise I host my own postfix/dovcot kitbash 02:04 Hawk777 Exim+Dovecot for me. 02:04 Hawk777 I have run Postfix, but found Exim a little easier. 02:04 blaise I need to renew my certificates, actually 02:05 Hawk777 No automation with LetsEncrypt for you? 02:06 Gustavo6046 I host local exim 02:06 Gustavo6046 I don't like going knee deep in stuff I don't know 02:06 Gustavo6046 I like experimenting a little at a time 02:06 blaise I didn't know about exim, I'll check it out 02:06 Gustavo6046 I also don't like too traditional/oldschool methods, like the very mature GNU/BSD stuff 02:06 Gustavo6046 blaise: I probably didn't need it 02:07 Gustavo6046 it's more powerful and extremely flexible, but not as simple, so it's more suitable if you need more flexibility than postfix can offer, I've heard 02:07 blaise mostly I just need to be able to whitelist, and report attempted abuse to spamassasin.. XD 02:08 Gustavo6046 I still don't know how to commit and how often. Is it every little change, or everytime I implement something fully? Is it okay to implement a feature when I didn't test it, with a description like "Feature feature", and maybe commit fixes later with a description like "Fixed feature featured", "Fixed feature feature again", ...? 02:08 Gustavo6046 blaise: do you use fail2ban? 02:08 blaise yeah, of course.. 02:08 * Gustavo6046 bonks his head against the keyhole of blaise's mail server 02:08 Gustavo6046 ow 02:09 blaise you don't even know my hostname.. XD 02:09 Gustavo6046 I know lol 02:09 Gustavo6046 I'm just kidding you 02:09 Gustavo6046 I wonder how important security is if nobody knows your IP, especially if you're behind a CGNAT like me. 02:09 blaise for the longest time I was getting pings from china.. 02:09 Gustavo6046 (I am a sad potato) 02:09 Gustavo6046 Is this the right way to implement what I want? https://github.com/Gustavo6046/farming_plus/commit/d3387b29ac1d6aeddbd8c3fefd58cca42fbf1884 02:09 Gustavo6046 blaise: lol 02:10 Hawk777 Lua uses elseif, not else if. 02:10 blaise my server is sitting pretty on a pretty fat fiber connection out in the wilds.. 02:10 blaise so I kinda have to use good protection.. 02:11 Hawk777 (technically “else if” is valid code, but you need more ends for it) 02:11 blaise yay, clang-11 is done 02:12 Hawk777 I’m not sure if it’s good practice to modify node metadata so frequently either. 02:12 Hawk777 But that part I’m not sure about. 02:14 Gustavo6046 ah 02:14 Gustavo6046 I see 02:14 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: probably not? 02:15 Gustavo6046 it's supposed to be kind of static I guess 02:15 blaise so, I've been flying an Adder for a long time now 02:15 blaise I've got a few billion credits... 02:16 blaise should I move up to the python, or go directly to the Anaconda ? 02:16 Gustavo6046 What about settings, like the timeout values at the top of the file, Hawk777? 02:17 Gustavo6046 blaise: I'd say don't be too all in at once 02:17 Gustavo6046 This is the kind of thing that really feels like it has a catch 02:18 Hawk777 Gustavo6046: I’d make those local, but seems fine to put them there. 02:18 Gustavo6046 I never watched Family Guy (that's an American show, I don't think people watch it here in Brazil), but if I recall correctly it has an episode where the guy gets very rich and spends it all at once. 02:18 Gustavo6046 And... bad stuff happens. I think. I don't remember lol 02:18 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: ah 02:18 Gustavo6046 Is there no way to expose them to the player, sort of? 02:19 blaise it's Elite Dangerous... I would never sell my Adder.. 02:20 Hawk777 Do you mean expose the numbers? Are you saying you want them to be settings or something? Because just making them non-local in the file will not let the player edit them through any kind of UI. 02:20 Hawk777 You’d have to use the settings API for that. 02:21 Gustavo6046 ah 02:21 Gustavo6046 blaise: I thought you meant like those wierd US airlines where you get "credit" for flying, for some reason lol 02:21 Gustavo6046 and you could get comfier seats or whatever if you endured the crappy ones for your lifetime 02:21 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: yeah 02:21 Gustavo6046 that's what I mean 02:22 Gustavo6046 I don't really like making them hardcoded 02:22 Gustavo6046 At least putting them at the top makes it easier for anyone who wants to edit it to do so, right? 02:22 * VanessaE sighs... why, just why? https://imgur.com/U5ESefq.png 02:22 Hawk777 Sure, or you could use settings for them. 02:22 Gustavo6046 o.o 02:22 blaise VanessaE: :o 02:22 Gustavo6046 what happened, VanessaE? 02:22 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: yeah 02:22 VanessaE fuck if I know. some wxgtk bug I guess 02:25 Gustavo6046 VanessaE: yes but what is the context 02:26 Gustavo6046 it does look very buggy 02:26 Gustavo6046 but that's wxWidgets for you 02:26 VanessaE Gustavo6046: that's Prusaslicer, normally it doesn't look like that. 02:26 Gustavo6046 a what? 02:27 VanessaE ... 02:27 VanessaE oh fuck 02:27 VanessaE I'm on the wrong channel 02:27 Gustavo6046 :P 02:27 Gustavo6046 It happens 02:27 Gustavo6046 Don't be too roused about it, it's fine. 02:28 VanessaE heh oh well 02:28 Gustavo6046 hm? 02:28 Gustavo6046 is there anything you're trying to say or? 02:28 * VanessaE takes her gripe over to the correct channel :P 02:28 Gustavo6046 Ah :P 02:31 Gustavo6046 weird, Minetest Game disappeared from the content list 02:32 Gustavo6046 I had Minetest Extended, which I deleted since I think it overrode Minetest Game for some reason. Not cool. :/ 02:33 Gustavo6046 I wish it were in ContentDB, even if it were to be distributed with the game or alongside it. 02:33 Hawk777 https://content.minetest.net/threads/233/ ← I brought up yesterday that it’s not actually shipped with distro packages in all cases, but is now also not available from contentDB, but nobody replied before I had to leave. 02:34 Gustavo6046 How do I redownload it? 02:34 Gustavo6046 Ah 02:34 Hawk777 But that thread is why it’s not in contentdb. 02:34 Hawk777 You can still grab it from Github. 02:34 Gustavo6046 >_> 02:34 Gustavo6046 I want to download it, rubenwardy 02:34 Hawk777 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game 02:34 Gustavo6046 Ah 02:34 Gustavo6046 At least I still can get that 02:34 Gustavo6046 I'm not barred from THAT. 02:34 Gustavo6046 Next step: make the game proprietary 02:35 Hawk777 If it *were* shipped with the engine in all cases, I would not see a lot of point also having it on ContentDB, since that seems like a recipe for users ending up with two copies of it (one in a system location made by package installation, and the other in their home directory made by contentdb installation). But it’s not in all cases shipped with, so having it not in CDB is a little annoying. 02:36 Gustavo6046 yeah 02:36 Gustavo6046 I had to git clone it 02:36 Gustavo6046 Hawk777: why put it in a system location at all 02:36 Hawk777 Uh, because that’s where it would end up if it ships with the engine and you install via e.g. a distro package manager. 02:37 Gustavo6046 Ah, screw that 02:37 Gustavo6046 Distros, distros. 02:37 Gustavo6046 There should be a standard place to put files without necessarily guarding them to root. 02:37 Gustavo6046 Like /opt maybe? 02:38 Hawk777 Sorry, but I currently have over a thousand distro packages installed on my computer. I am not interested in going to each one’s website and checking whether a newer version is available. Package managers are good. 02:38 Gustavo6046 I know 02:38 Gustavo6046 yes they are 02:38 Gustavo6046 but also very non-standardized 02:38 Gustavo6046 which results in issues like this 02:39 Gustavo6046 this kind of confusion is not easy to avoid 02:39 Hawk777 Um, no, fundamentally you either install something system-wide (thus available for everyone, but should not be writeable by anyone because then user X can break stuff for user Y), or you install stuff per-user (thus available for only that user and nobody else). 02:39 Hawk777 The problem only shows up if you try to install the same thing both ways at the same time. 02:40 Gustavo6046 yes 02:40 Gustavo6046 Maybe duplicate resolution is easier 02:40 Gustavo6046 So per-user stuff overrides system wide 02:40 Gustavo6046 That's how I'd do it 02:41 Hawk777 I mean, *ideally* the result would be that everything gets installed system-wide. That has other advantages; disk space is relatively cheap, but it’s still nice to keep software out of backups (there’s no point backing up that which can be re-downloaded and reinstalled), and the easiest backup is one which just grabs your whole home directory. Fortunately Minetest games and mods are pretty tiny so they don’t really contribut 02:41 Hawk777 h, but larger software which insists on installing itself in a user home directory is annoying for that reason even if not on a multi-user machine. 02:42 Hawk777 Sure, I can handle a hundred gigs of Steam games on my hard drive. I don’t want to upload a hundred gigs of steam games to my backup storage every time I do a full backup. 02:43 Hawk777 Ergo, keeping user data and programs separate = good. 02:44 specing Sounds proprietary 02:44 specing Anyway, backup tools should have exclude/include lists 02:44 Hawk777 Well of course they do, but it’s annoying to add a dozen different directories to an exclude list. 02:45 Hawk777 Much better if programs (and their assets, i.e. stuff that comes back at the press of a button) live in one place, and user data lives in another. 02:46 Hawk777 As I said, I don’t really care much about Minetest in this case, because Minetest mods and games are tiny. 02:48 specing Things should respect the XDG standards 02:49 specing I suppose games off $proprietary service would install into ~/.cache , which you can exclude altogether 02:50 Hawk777 Well, that would be acceptable I suppose. Ideally software would be installed into /opt (if giant-blob-that-insists-on-living-in-one-directory) or /usr (if sane normal software). 02:51 Hawk777 In practice Steam lets you pick the install directory; I wasn’t attacking it, just giving it as an example of really big software that I don’t want in ~. 03:01 specing All the out-of-package-manager software I used so far did install to /opt by default 03:01 specing one of them installs to ~/opt/ by default... a rather strange choice I suppose :) 03:02 Hawk777 :O 03:02 Hawk777 Yeah that’s weird. 03:03 Hawk777 Yes /opt seems to be pretty common, except for the case of things that expect to be run as a regular user but also act as their own package manager, like Steam and Minetest. 03:03 specing it's a foss package too (the one that installed to ~/opt) 03:07 Gustavo6046 How can I tell the meta value of my block? 03:08 Gustavo6046 If there is one set, anyway? 03:08 Gustavo6046 Maybe color the outline? 03:13 Gustavo6046 Can I use a = as an expression in Lua? 03:14 Gustavo6046 Oh nevermind 03:14 Gustavo6046 I don't need to lol 03:21 Gustavo6046 The auto-generated docs are condescending. They assume that if you don't understand them, it must be that you don't understand Lua. 03:22 Gustavo6046 I don't want the concepts, I get them well enough already; I just want the damn method names! The actual reference! 03:22 specing Gustavo6046: doc/lua_api.txt? 03:22 specing Gustavo6046: doc/client_lua_api.txt? 03:22 Gustavo6046 Oh, thanks 03:22 Gustavo6046 I was looking for that 03:23 Gustavo6046 Something that doesn't have outdated warnings slathered all over it lol 03:23 specing hmm 03:23 specing I wonder if you see the API if you do dump(_G) 03:23 Gustavo6046 I want to set a node's texture, like, I want to overlay cracks on it. 03:23 Gustavo6046 Transparent cracks 03:25 Gustavo6046 There should be a way to define a new node as a variant of another one, so using API functions on the original node type would also give the new one. 03:25 Gustavo6046 Node type aliases, I'd call them 03:25 Gustavo6046 Like slightly grassier versions of the tiled soil texture. 03:25 Gustavo6046 I just want to do that. 03:25 specing you can do that 03:25 specing see how dirt with grass is done 03:26 Gustavo6046 ah 03:26 Gustavo6046 specing: yes, I get that 03:26 Gustavo6046 But I want to change the actual farming soil types 03:26 Gustavo6046 Not add new ones 03:26 specing you could pull it out of registered nodes and modify it? 03:30 Gustavo6046 oh? 03:30 Gustavo6046 I could? 03:31 Gustavo6046 specing: but for specific nodes 03:31 Gustavo6046 depending on the value of a meta int 03:31 Gustavo6046 I could make an air-like node with a slightly grassy "floor" 03:31 Gustavo6046 but that sounds like it could cause problems 03:36 Gustavo6046 specing: anything im mind? 03:41 specing air-like? you mean like a 1/8 slab? 03:52 Gustavo6046 specing: hm? 03:52 Gustavo6046 no, like a node that otherwise behaves like Air 03:55 specing But is fully textured like dirt-with-grass? 03:56 Gustavo6046 specing: no, just the bottom, from the inside 03:56 Gustavo6046 so the bottom face is a transparent grass texture 03:56 specing ok, so maybe a slab with no hitbox? 03:56 Gustavo6046 maybe 03:56 Gustavo6046 a tiny one 03:56 specing I'm trying to think of an example like you said 03:56 specing of a node* 03:57 Gustavo6046 specing: I imagine my use case is an example on its own right? lol 03:57 Gustavo6046 I have a tilled farm node 03:57 Gustavo6046 it has a timeout 03:57 specing Oh, I know of an example 03:57 Gustavo6046 I modified weed.lua from farming_plus, so that it has a timeout, and once it decrements to 1 it can spawn weed above 03:57 Gustavo6046 (not 0, because 0 means "no meta" and I use that to reset to the initial value) 03:57 specing seeds / early stage plants from any farming mod 03:57 Gustavo6046 no 03:57 specing a timeout? 03:57 Gustavo6046 I want the timeout to display on the top surface of the block itself 03:58 specing what 03:58 Gustavo6046 yeah 03:58 Gustavo6046 it's just a value 03:58 specing What 03:58 Gustavo6046 a counter 03:58 Gustavo6046 I set it in meta 03:58 Gustavo6046 sorry, I'm stupid 03:58 Gustavo6046 let me post the link 03:58 specing hmmmmm 03:58 specing Perhaps 03:58 specing I think that technic battery boxes do something similar 03:58 specing they show charge level on their side 03:58 Gustavo6046 https://github.com/Gustavo6046/farming_plus/blob/master/weed.lua#L31-L57 03:59 Gustavo6046 yes, kind of like that 04:02 Gustavo6046 specing: but I don't want to make new node types 04:02 Gustavo6046 it's fine if I have to make new textures, I guess 04:03 specing I dont think you can do new textures without new node types 04:03 specing How does technic do it? Several node types per battery box? 04:05 Gustavo6046 oh lol 04:14 Gustavo6046 specing: I found the source 04:14 Gustavo6046 for Technic 04:22 Gustavo6046 I'm usually not a fan of mixing faux-declarative and imperative, but it seems that in Lua mixing the two is the best way. 04:22 Gustavo6046 Everything else looks egregious lol 04:23 Gustavo6046 Like, the register calls are faux-declarative, as it groups what would otherwise be multiple calls (like init_node_type, set_node_type_thingthing, etc) and uses a single call with a table argument (or whatever Lua calls them). 04:28 Gustavo6046 But still 04:28 Gustavo6046 let me try to find the thing 04:28 Gustavo6046 specing: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/machines/MV/battery_box.lua 04:29 Gustavo6046 clever dude abstracted away common stuff 04:31 Gustavo6046 specing: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/a8daa417c485ee20716ec050d4c676b5c91af773/technic/machines/register/battery_box.lua#L159-L393 04:31 Gustavo6046 found the function 04:42 Gustavo6046 Yep, it seems to 04:43 Gustavo6046 local front_tex = "technic_"..ltier.."_battery_box_front.png^technic_power_meter"..i..".png" 04:43 Gustavo6046 notice the i? 05:05 Gustavo6046 I just want a way to visualize this timeout in general. 05:05 Gustavo6046 Without having to replace the node type 05:05 Gustavo6046 Ooh wait 06:19 * iamweasel waits stoically 06:21 specing Gustavo6046: I'd use infotext 06:21 specing or CSM :DDD 06:21 specing maybe your use case is a great example for what SSCSMs could be useful for 06:21 Gustavo6046 Ah 06:21 Gustavo6046 I see 06:21 Gustavo6046 Thanks! I'll use infotext 06:22 specing Gustavo6046: e.g. terumet thermoboxes use infotext to show how much heat they contain 06:22 Gustavo6046 Ah 06:23 Gustavo6046 Why are meta methods accessed with a colon? 06:23 Gustavo6046 Oh, that's Lua 06:23 Gustavo6046 nevermind 06:24 specing yep 06:25 specing obj:fun(a,b) = fun(obj,a,b) 06:25 specing syntax sugar 06:25 Gustavo6046 I see 06:26 iamweasel oh that's neat specing :) 06:27 specing Lua is a neat little language that is easy to use, up until you want to do inheritance 07:22 Gustavo6046 Also, crops in Helenah's server did not grow at all after a certain point. 07:22 Gustavo6046 Helenah: does debug.txt say anything abgout it? 08:22 Gustavo6046 I DID IT 08:22 Gustavo6046 :D 08:22 Gustavo6046 good night! 09:42 specing do you minetesters in general prefer one function to work on nodes, objects and "nothing" (pointed thing) or do you prefer 3 separate functions instead? 09:43 rubenwardy Depends on the context 09:47 specing core.use_item for CSMs 09:48 rubenwardy Pointed thing makes sense in that case 09:51 specing All cases use PointedThing. But I'm asking whether I should make core.use_item handle all cases or add use_item_on_node and use_item_on_object 10:36 Helenah Is there any way to optimise the engine to work on a pi 4? 10:37 Helenah I'm desperate to play with my gf and she has a pi. 10:37 Ingar the client is almost usable on a pi 10:37 Ingar last time I got 20-30 fps 10:37 Helenah Ingar: It lags like hell on this pi. 10:38 Helenah She could move around, but she said she wasn't comfortable with the lag. 10:38 Ingar a pi isn;t the greatest gaming machine ofc 10:38 Ingar might be better off with a NUC style machine 10:38 Helenah Ingar: What you mean? 10:40 specing get a PC :D 10:40 Ingar Helenah: I mean, the Pi4 sucks at OpenGL :) 10:40 sfan5 are you running it via the new opengl driver? 10:40 Ingar any 5-year old mini PC would be better 10:40 sfan5 gles2 might also give better performence 10:42 Ingar I"m at work now though, unfortunately I odn't have my Pi4 here 10:42 specing sometimes I wonder how the gma4500xhd in this 12 yo laptop would fare with minetest 10:42 Ingar specing: intel GMA ? 10:42 Helenah Ingar: How come it played Minecraft 8 better? 10:42 specing Ingar: yes 10:42 Helenah I thought Minetest was lighter? 10:43 specing Ingar:VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07) 10:43 Ingar specing: intel video :) http://ingar.intranifty.net/pictures/Upside-Down.jpg 10:43 rti Hi. I am new to EFI ftw? 12:59 MTDiscord <09s​rinivas> oof 13:16 hecks And when does this marking happen exactly? 13:54 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:55 sfan5 look into the unloading methods in serverenvironment.cpp 13:57 hecks looks like a matter of finding all the code that touches m_pending_removal and m_pending_deactivation 14:02 Helenah How do I debug while wheat and cotton wont grow all of a sudden? 14:16 hecks Helenah: you can start here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/e6aec880decf52d5e6db6ab005c04a7ef60b1156/mods/farming/api.lua#L191 14:40 rti Hi. I am looking for a way to host Minetest worlds. My main requirement is, that I need non tech ppl to be able to spin up world easily. Is there a solution already built/available? Like a Minetest server control panel which is able to mange Minetest server instances? For Minecraft there is https://gitlab.com/crafty-controller/crafty-web/-/wikis/Web-Console/Server-Management 14:42 Helenah rti: For worlds, I don't think there is and that's... risky... 14:42 Helenah The best approach would be to allow them to spin up their own servers 14:42 Helenah You can use pufferpanel (free) 14:43 Helenah Reason why I say allowing them to spin up their own worlds is risky because you'll have a single instance of the minetest engine where many people are spinning up loads of worlds, this is not good. Also, I think with the way minetest works, worlds would be stacked which also isn't good. 14:45 Helenah rti: Your best bet would be to use pufferpanel to aid you in providing a virtual minetest hosting solution where which minetest server is on its own port, the customer can use SRV DNS records to point sub domains to their server port(s). 14:46 rti Helenah: Thank you so much. Pufferpanel is exactly what I was looking for. I could have never guessed that name :D 14:46 rti Thanks again! 14:47 Helenah rti: It says it's for Minecraft server deployment, but when I've checked it out myself, it will also deploy Minetest. 14:48 rti Helenah: Ok, as it has a plugin arch, adding minetest as a plugin should not be that hard after all either. I will look into this! 14:51 Helenah rti: The UI allows you to choose what server you would like to deploy whether that be vanilla, bukkit/spigot/paper, forge, couldron/thermo or even some mod/plugin pack, even minetest. 14:52 rti Perfect 15:37 Helenah hecks: What do I do with that bit of code? 15:38 Helenah hecks: All I know is 2 days ago wheat and cotton grew. 15:41 hecks You can check what it needs to grow and how it's called, maybe it was some config option you've changed, maybe the server is failing to run timers for some reason 16:03 Gustavo6046 Ingar: OpenGL shaders are generally slower than classic surfaces 16:04 Helenah o.o 16:04 Helenah Oh Gustavo6046 ! 16:04 Gustavo6046 (I don't know how to call it, I nick it "hardware Quake" lol) 16:05 Gustavo6046 specing: if I chance the ID of a node, does minetest.register_alias allow me to maintain backwards compatibility?? 16:05 Gustavo6046 er, one single question mark, oops 16:06 Gustavo6046 Ah, it can 16:07 sfan5 you mean the name? yes 16:07 sfan5 nodes have (numeric) IDs internally but as a modder you cannot control what those are 16:07 Gustavo6046 ah 16:07 Gustavo6046 yeah, the name 16:07 Gustavo6046 thanks 16:09 Gustavo6046 also 16:09 Gustavo6046 is it a normal thing to do pull requests on Minetest mod repos on github? 16:09 sfan5 mod authors usually accept contributions yes 16:09 hecks sure 16:09 Gustavo6046 PilzAdam's original was last updated March 31st, 2019 16:09 Gustavo6046 https://github.com/PilzAdam/farming_plus 16:10 hecks if a repo appears inactive, consider just forking and adopting the mod 16:10 sfan5 !mod farming_plus 16:10 MinetestBot sfan5: [farming_plusplus] farming_plus fork by MTDad - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10187 - https://github.com/MTDad/farming_plusplus 16:10 sfan5 hm 16:10 sfan5 I think most people just use farmind_redo these days 16:10 sfan5 so not much point in looking into farming_plus 16:13 Gustavo6046 And then there are my edits, which I don't know if they work that well with the mod. There is a quirk or two, eg. the Grassiness value infotext is mostly for debug, I will definitely remove it from a wider release (like a PR), but if I find a better way to show the timeout value on tilled soil without much nodetype magick I will do. https://github.com/Gustavo6046/farming_plus 16:18 tango_ farming_redo so called because people had ran out of plusses 16:56 Helenah tango_: Oh, I didn't know I needed farming_redo instead. o.o 16:56 Helenah damn 16:56 Gustavo6046 tango_: lol 16:56 Gustavo6046 farming++ 16:57 Helenah How do I change the kick for inactivity time? 18:06 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Thomas--S -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: Allow to specify frame loop for model[] (#10679) 13d0a38f6 https://git.io/JL3Ut (152020-12-15T18:06:36Z) 18:06 MinetestBot 02[git] 04wsor4035 -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: Add mod_orgin to node def (#10697) 133ed940f https://git.io/JL3Uq (152020-12-15T18:05:55Z) 18:16 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow configuring block disk and net compression. Change default disk… 13e638056 https://git.io/JL3kY (152020-12-15T18:15:25Z) 20:15 tango_ wtf I'm getting kicked out from an unlisted server because minetest cannot connect to its server list? 20:16 tango_ and that's without even considering the issue of getting disconnected while underwater basically guaranteeing you'll die 20:18 sfan5 huh? 20:56 MTDiscord <10A​bdu> Is the 5.4.0 dev input lag (sometimes can't select an item in the hotbar) android specific or across all platforms? 21:57 Helenah I've built a tunnel which I intend for people to pass through safely... 21:57 Helenah Those yellow monsters from mc_mobs are spawning there... how do I stop that without using mods to disable their spawn? 22:21 specing Gustavo6046: I don't know, I mainly do client side modding