Time  Nick        Message
00:10 rschulman   Does anyone know how to charge up elepower's Electric Hand Drill?
00:10 rschulman   I can't seem to find instructions anywhere.
00:41 lmat        It now takes like 15 minutes to ride my cart down to the deep part of the mine...
00:52 oil_boi     I take like a month posting on the forums and it's chaos woooo
00:53 leo_rockway oil_boi: dude, every time I git pull there's something new. Do you even sleep?
00:53 oil_boi     Oh I do, I take 20 minute breaks every hour as well :D
00:54 leo_rockway :D
00:54 leo_rockway those spiders are something else now. Pretty challenging. They run like crazy. I like it.
00:55 oil_boi     Thanks! Just wait until they can climb walls, castles are gonna need to have to be designed very carefully hahaha
01:21 leo_rockway oil_boi: I noticed in a video that it snows in a desert biome. Per biome weather is not implemented then, correct?
01:37 oil_boi     leo_rockway, Not yet
01:54 leo_rockway oil_boi: a suggestion: maybe snowmen should drop carrots in the future.
01:56 oil_boi     Ooo that's a good idea
01:56 oil_boi     Logged it
01:56 leo_rockway :D
01:57 oil_boi     How does one have non-free content in a gpl engine??
03:20 leo_rockway oil_boi: I see that smelting ores now gives you XP, but mining iron still gives you XP as well.
06:38 oil_boi     leo_rockway, oops
06:38 oil_boi     I'll have to fix it tomorrow
09:48 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: Fix minor typo (#9917) 138ee2ece https://git.io/JfaQf (152020-05-24T09:48:19Z)
09:50 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix two bugs in content_cao 13f51cf7c https://git.io/JfaQt (152020-05-24T09:48:51Z)
09:50 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix constant re-queueing of emerges that will always be unsuccessful 135430770 https://git.io/JfaQq (152020-05-24T09:48:33Z)
09:50 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix documentation of emergequeue_limit settings 13a9d6be8 https://git.io/JfaQm (152020-05-24T09:48:33Z)
09:50 Emerald2    Woot!
09:51 Emerald2    Nice work sfan5 :D
09:57 Emerald2    All the devs do a good job. I'm just not usually watching. XD
11:24 Ravise      Hi (it's me again), is the chat-related part of CSM api ill-designed for purpose?
11:25 nephele     could you elaborate why you think so?
11:26 Ravise      There is no way (using minetest's api only) to pass message through arbitrary number of filters - first filter that "fires" is blocking all of the filters after it
11:27 nephele     I don't understand that requirement..? if you want to change the string just pass it along through functions?
11:27 Ravise      Suppose we have independent mods on client side: timestamp_chat and chat_coloring
11:28 Ravise      With using only minetest's api, there is no way to have the message colored AND timestamped
11:28 nephele     that's not true, i can most definetely make you messages that are colorized and timestamped
11:29 Ravise      Either timestamp calls minetest.display_chat_message first, having the message bypass chat_coloring filter or vice versa
11:31 Ravise      You can make both by making one monolith mod, true, but I see no way to connect two independent mods from independent authors
11:31 nephele     I don't see what the problem is with this
11:32 Ravise      Hang on a sec, I'll draw a diagram, the text might be hard to understand
11:42 Ravise      https://imgup.cz/image/kLto
11:44 nephele     I don't see the problem, if it did reacht the second one you would have two messages in the chat, one formatted with timestamp and the other colorized
11:45 nephele     you clearly need to do something later to process the message afterwards, this is not designed to be a filter (and on a filter ordering is important too for the result to be consistent)
11:46 nephele     If you want a filtering api make one in lua? I don't see a point in specialcasing one part of the lua csm api to behave like that
11:46 nephele     if the second callback does not get called that i would consider a bug though
11:48 Ravise      I expected the api to expect modders would like to cooperate :|
11:48 Ravise      Something like "msg" -> filter one -> returns modified msg -> filter two -> ...
11:49 nephele     this has nothing to do with cooperation, the usecase you have is only a tiny one, it makes no sense to make it overly complex to optimize it for that usecase when you could have written a generic api for lua to do this in 10 to 20 minutes ;) anyway this is just my opinion :P
11:49 nephele     you can already do that
11:49 nephele     just call the second csm from the first one
11:49 nephele     with your modified message
11:49 Ravise      That would sort of defeat the point of totally independent mods, though
11:49 nephele     that doesn't need any special ordering support at all
11:50 nephele     i don't see why, mod compatibility is not something you get for free, you have to work for it
11:50 Ravise      Of course, a "specialised" chat handling library could be written, but a] it's not minetest's api, thus fractioning and incompatibility is likely to happen, b] the minetest's api is designed "by implementers", not "for users"
11:50 nephele     you can't change every api to hopefully have every usecase
11:51 Ravise      If chat handling on csm-api side would be implemented differently, compatibility would be way cheaper though
11:51 nephele     the "api" is just calling the second function with the first function
11:51 nephele     if you want you can overwrite the on chat handelere thingy that calls functions to behave like you wish and make both mods depend on it
11:51 nephele     but that seems much harder than changing one line of code
11:52 Ravise      In other words, the chat-related csm api is ill-designed for purpose, thank you...
11:52 nephele     i didn't design it
11:52 nephele     and your assertion still makes no sense
11:53 nephele     it's not ill designed just because it doesn't cover every hypotehtical use case
11:53 Ravise      I think we won't move the discussino any further, so with all due respect, let's stop before we start to get angirer :)
12:03 rubenwardy  Minetest's callback model tends to not be very well thought out, sorry
12:03 rubenwardy  on the server side, doing things like you suggest would be done using  `minetest.format_chat_message`
12:03 rubenwardy  but there's not client equivalent
12:04 Ravise      As I'm a player, not server admin, I'd like things to be solved on client-side as much as possible, to be independent on benevolence of server admins not/installing server mods for my convenience :)
12:06 Ravise      It seems my best option is csm lib providing "chaining" api built on top of basic minetest's and calling other chat csm modders to adopt it?
12:07 Krock       how should a chat-format-modifier pipeline look like?
12:07 Krock       or in your terms "chaining"
12:07 blaise      lol
12:07 sfan5       probably like format_chat_message but on the client side
12:07 rubenwardy  (pipeline is the correct term)
12:07 Krock       but format_chat_message can only be overwritten once?
12:08 blaise      i've seem so many chat <--> irc mod's
12:08 blaise      holey moley
12:08 hoodedice   minetest.get_chat_message():uppercase():grammarize():remove_excess_exclamation_marks()
12:08 Ravise      I'd imagine callbacks to have signature function(msg) --do something witht the msg; return msg; end
12:08 Ravise      Of course, it require callbacks to be "sane", like, not returning ""
12:08 blaise      I like the ones that introduce ansi color codes... they're super nice
12:09 sfan5       Krock: but you can chain those
12:09 Krock       Ravise: so one callback would provide the args for the next run callback?
12:09 Ravise      And minetest's core looping over the lists of callbackcs, like this (suppose the msg is alredy filled with the message)
12:09 Krock       sfan5: perhaps chaining the format string would be an approach?
12:10 Ravise      for cb in callbacks; msg = cb(msg); end; return msg
12:10 Ravise      While we are at this, it would be best to provide some metadata right with the message (e.g. the type, author etc.) but I understand that would most probably require breaking change in protocol
12:11 Krock       no it wouldn't
12:11 hoodedice   minetest should have RFCs :^)
12:11 Krock       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7521
12:11 Krock       table format without protocol bump
12:11 nephele     hoodedice, request for comments? :D
12:12 hoodedice   :^)
12:13 Ravise      Krock: I don't see inside the minetest core, I just like to use the api :) And as the message is given as string in the api, I expected it's expected to send the message as string
12:14 Ravise      Not having to guess metadata from message string format would be nice, IMO
12:14 rubenwardy  I'd forgotten that chat_send_all supports this
12:15 Krock       you'd be given author, message, time and format string. I think it would make sense to do conditional overwrites of the format string only (or abort sending if that's wanted)
12:18 Ravise      Having the message type (e.g. /msg, /me, general say etc.) would be nice too, but preparating that from format string shouldn't be too much trouble
12:19 Ravise      And of course, the message text must be editable as well :)
12:19 rubenwardy  a chat command use is a normal message that begins with "/"
12:20 rubenwardy  you won't receive that though
12:20 rubenwardy  as the server will swallow it
12:22 Ravise      Those messages do have fixed structure, and since we'll have access to the format string, and since only the message type is to be guessed, the REs should be short enough not to cause mass confusion
12:24 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add chat_font_size setting (#9736) 13a9b74f4 https://git.io/JfaFk (152020-05-24T12:24:13Z)
13:09 luvo        henlo! Is it possible to call the on_use function of a given hoe? having the itemstack
13:10 Krock       itemstack:get_definition().on_use(...)
13:10 luvo        get_definition, that's the key! thanks Krock
13:10 Krock       probably
13:10 Krock       !next
13:10 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
13:10 luvo        I trued itemstack:on_use but didn't work
13:12 Krock       true
13:39 bdju        are the versions of mods in the client's mod downloader older than versions elsewhere? is it worth git cloning dfcaverns?
13:40 Krock       sometimes yes. Automatic updates have to be authorized first
13:41 nephele     i think that depends on the mod
13:41 nephele     develop branches arent on contentdb usually?
13:41 Krock       so that ContentDB can update using the git repository's push messages (or whatever)
13:41 Krock       nephele: barely a mod has develop branches
13:42 nephele     huh?
13:42 nephele     i would think anything that isn't tagged a release or on a release branch is a develop branch
13:42 Krock       all changes happen in master, and a commit is tagged as soon the author feels like it
13:43 nephele     then the not-tagged stuff is develop branch :)
13:43 Krock       or not tagged at all, which is then a rolling release
13:43 Krock       develop branch == master branch
13:43 Krock       bdju: if you want to be 100% sure that you've got the newest update, yes.
13:43 nephele     Hmm, maybe i should work a bit on orion and make a tag thingy and ask to be put on contentdb...
13:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add engine version string to ContentDB API request (#9890) 13b3c7990 https://git.io/JfaN4 (152020-05-24T13:46:50Z)
13:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Replacement for Minimal Development Test (PR) (#9450) 136456aba https://git.io/JfaNB (152020-05-24T13:46:26Z)
14:22 bdju        Krock: thanks for the info
14:23 bdju        does anyone know why dfcaverns from the contentdb comes with broken configs? it keeps saying various files have invalid booleans. I went and commented out the lines in several, but then it came up with more and I was losing motivation
14:25 Krock       what kind of errors?
14:29 bdju        stuff like this: 09:13:37 < rekado> bah, looks like GHC really does need to have a reference on GCC, because it tries to use its record of the build-time GCC when packages run “cabal configure”.
14:29 bdju        09:13:48 < rekado> annoying that it won’t take GCC from the environment
14:29 bdju        ugh sorry, clipboard troubles-
14:30 bdju        2020-05-24 09:13:58: ERROR[Main]: Invalid boolean setting in /home/brad/.minetest/mods/dfcaverns/df_caverns/settingtypes.txt "dfcaverns_underworld_hud_requires_item (Require an item to view waypoints) bool true
14:30 bdju        "
14:31 bdju        many similar lines like this, all dfcaverns, but not all in the same directory within its directory. so then I was hopping around in vim opening settingtypes.txt of various dirs and commenting out lines it complained about
14:39 nephele     Is it new that minetest.debug messages appear in chat?
14:39 sfan5       depends on your settings
15:17 luvo        I'm a bit confused. If the hoe_wood definitions sets the max_uses attribute, how can it be nil when I access it on the on_use callback?
15:17 luvo        I'm sure I'm missing something
15:18 luvo        in the register of the hoe, if max_uses is nil it defines it at 30
15:20 luvo        the definition is here https://git.io/Jfapq
15:25 sfan5       the def table isn't copied so someone can mess with it afterwards in theory
15:26 luvo        but i have default and farming as the only dependency, so no change should have been madee right?
15:26 luvo        oh you mean
15:26 luvo        that itemstack doesn't have the hoe max_uses for example
15:26 luvo        right?
15:27 luvo        or what
15:28 luvo        and if no deftable is copied, how can I access the max_uses of the wooden hoe for example?
15:29 sfan5       farming.hoe_on_use gets the value of uses
15:29 luvo        exactly
15:29 sfan5       from outside there isn't any other way, since the "def" table is never saved
15:30 luvo        mmm
15:30 luvo        so no way for me to redefine the on_use of any hoe right?
15:30 luvo        because I'll need max_uses if I want to reuse hoe_on_use
15:31 sfan5       correct
15:31 luvo        oh..
15:31 luvo        allright thx
15:34 sfan5       uh actually
15:34 luvo        :D
15:34 sfan5       you can redefine farming.hoe_on_use, it gets the max_uses as parameter
15:34 luvo        mmmm
15:35 luvo        But I want to reuse the farmin.hoe_on_use logic, just do something after that function all on the on_use function
15:36 sfan5       you can keep the old function around and call it before doing anything
15:36 luvo        so it will be:\n new_itemstack = farming.hoe_on_use(blablabla)\n some stuff\n return new_itemstack
15:36 luvo        yeah, thats what I do, but for me to call hoe_on_use I have to pass the mas_uses
15:37 luvo        well
15:38 luvo        you mean to just redefine farming.hoe_on_use and not override_item("farming:hoe_wood"?
15:38 luvo        so hoe_wood item will use my redefined method?
15:38 sfan5       yes
15:39 luvo        allright!
15:39 luvo        thx
15:41 sfan5       luvo: http://sprunge.us/hXTe2P?lua
15:42 luvo        wow, didn't realized about that, I just copied the entire function
15:42 luvo        thanks again sfan5
15:42 luvo        :)
15:44 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build on FreeBSD, broken since open_url 13212a112 https://git.io/Jfaht (152020-05-24T14:31:06Z)
15:59 nephele     Is there any way to add like... friction to items?
15:59 nephele     currently they just slide along the bottom infinitely :D
16:19 nephele     heh, had a comment about returning nil somewhere crashing minetest, now removing that it's not the case anymore :3
16:26 ANAND       nephele: Add negative acceleration along the X and Z axes?
16:27 ANAND       Wrongly worded, sorry
16:27 ANAND       Add accelaration acting against the movement dir, is what I meant
16:33 nephele     that would then basically be a timer on each object i think?
16:33 nephele     I would prefer not having to do that, friction seems rather important to have for physics interactions
16:33 nephele     although i can use that solution for now if nothing else is available
16:40 nephele     ANAND: ah, i misunderstood you, maybe.. i'll try that
16:42 nephele     Heh, that almost works
16:42 nephele     the item does slow down indeed
16:42 nephele     but then it speeds up and flies of in the other direction :D
16:42 ANAND       lol
16:43 ANAND       Basic physics for physical entities engine-side would be good to have indeed. :)
16:44 nephele     i suppose i'll have to forcibly slow it down in lua for now
16:45 nephele     i do want to be able to throw items, not a fan of those floating rotating nodes :D
16:45 nephele     also have a much much higher item limit per node and infinite timeout so one can "safely" place em in the worls
16:45 nephele     would be neat if the game loaded items earlier, but that is just a bit of a nitpick
16:47 ANAND       How much earlier? Objects are already sent to the client immediately upon connection.
16:48 nephele     yeah but it takes a couple of seconds before they appear in the world
16:48 nephele     so graphically its a bit you spawn in, but then it takes a bit for items to appear
16:48 nephele     can also run where items will appear to be in those items :D
16:50 ANAND       Ahh
16:50 who0        Hi Guys, do you know if there is a mods to expose metrics for prometheus. (I found one it needs to push data to a gateway)
16:50 ANAND       I presume that's an issue with entity loading itself.
16:57 nephele     maybe, i never investigated :)
18:08 rubenwardy  who0: there will be built-in support for Prometheus in 5.3
18:37 luvo        Is there anyway of interacting with a running server with the lua api?
18:38 luvo        for example, to use minetest.get_connected_players()
18:42 luvo        I know there is a --terminal option, but that is only for using the in-game commands, right? not for scripting
19:17 appguru     luvo: you could use WorldEdit's //lua if you want to execute code
19:18 Krock       also lua formspec in the inventory if that still exists
19:18 Krock       from worldedit_gui
20:56 texmex      !tell oil_boi: hilarious xD https://youtu.be/DpSIV648DaI?t=7748
20:56 MinetestBot texmex: Do not put an : at the end of nickname
20:56 texmex      !tell oil_boi Hilarious! xD https://youtu.be/DpSIV648DaI?t=7748
20:56 MinetestBot texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around
21:46 luvo        thanks guys!
22:57 Hawk777     If I connect to an unlisted server by address and port number, when I go back to the server list, it’s shown at the top with a gold star beside it. If I connect to a second unlisted server, the first one disappears. How do I make the server list keep two favourite unlisted servers?
22:58 Hawk777     My serverlist/favoriteservers.txt file actually has both listed, but I only see one of them in the GUI.
22:58 sfan5       that's a bug, please report it
22:59 Hawk777     So… the intent is that both should be added to favoriteservers.txt (as they are) and both should show up? Each one is under a [server] section in the file; is that the intended file structure?
22:59 Hawk777     favoriteservers.txt doesn’t appear to be documented on either wiki.
23:00 sfan5       yes
23:01 Hawk777     Huh, it appears to possibly be linked to the fact that you also can’t seem to give names to unlisted servers.
23:01 Hawk777     I manually gave them names, and now both show up. Is the bug actually that you can’t give them names?
23:01 Hawk777     (manually by editing the file)
23:03 Hawk777     Or is manually naming unlisted servers more of a feature request, and two unnamed servers are supposed to both show up and that’s the bug?
23:03 sfan5       I don't think you're supposed to be able to name them
23:04 Hawk777     OK, in that case I’ll file “being able to name them” as a feature request (since that’s not intended to be possible right now) and “not showing more than one” as a bug.
23:04 Hawk777     Thanks!
23:19 epoch       (minetest segfaults when attempting to use a remote X server)
23:30 Emerald2    I have that problem too, Hawk777, but it behaves inconsistently.
23:32 Hawk777     Well, I filed the bug and feature request in question.
23:32 Hawk777     And for now I have my workaround, naming them by editing the file by hand.
23:32 Emerald2    Nice. I was too slack. :)
23:33 Emerald2    Now I just need to catch my 'client hangs when server crashes or is shutdown, only some of the time' bug with a backtrace.