Time Nick Message 00:31 MinetestBot 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Make tool crafting recipes more compact, move to tools.lua 13f176ba4 https://git.io/JeQSw (152019-12-16T00:29:33Z) 12:25 jrmu greetings all, Fear, I'm interested in minetest and I saw a debate between v4 and v5 12:27 nephele greetings to you 12:27 jrmu greetings nephele 12:29 jrmu any you would recommend? 12:35 rubenwardy jrmu: v5 is the officially supported version, and contains massive improvements over v4 12:36 rubenwardy Including better GUI support (ongoing), better moving objects, an inmenu content store 12:36 rubenwardy There are a lot of stubborn servers still on v4, however 12:36 jrmu ah 12:36 rubenwardy You can use both on the same computer 12:37 rubenwardy V5 is a major new version which breaks network compatibility. Some mod compatibility is broken too, but this is limited 12:37 rubenwardy Worlds are unaffected 12:38 rubenwardy Out of 20 things, only 1 of my mods needed to be updated for v5 13:48 Fear if v5 is better then why does debian and rest of them use v4? 13:49 rubenwardy Because Debian doesn't allow updates within a stable release 13:49 rubenwardy Ubuntu doesn't allow any non-bug fixes within a release 13:50 rubenwardy Firefox is about the only package that is allowed to release features within a stable release of Ubuntu, Fear 13:50 rubenwardy Not sure about Debian's policy, but Debian is well known for being stable so is probably similar 13:51 Fear ah 13:52 sfan5 that a lot of words to say "the 5.0 series was release so recently that Debian has not picked up on it because it's a stable-focused distribution" 13:52 sfan5 anyway 5.0 is present in testing and backports https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all 13:52 rubenwardy Can you opt into packages from testing and backports? 13:53 rubenwardy Or is it a case of onece you enable it, you get everything 13:53 Fear I guess you can't run v4 or v5 do both? 13:53 Fear well, can't you run v5 server and people with v4 and v5 clients can join? 13:53 Fear or whatever 13:53 Fear (no mods) 13:53 sfan5 unforunately not 13:54 Fear hm 13:54 sfan5 5.x client can only join 5.x, 0.4 clients can only join 0.4 13:54 rubenwardy You can have both clients on the same computer 13:54 sfan5 rubenwardy: it is possible to pull just one package from a repository you add 13:57 Fear hm 13:58 Fear still determining debate on which server to run.. heh oldcoder says to use v4 and .net is the main 13:58 Fear which one has the most users 13:58 Fear shrug 13:59 rubenwardy Oldcoder has been banned from our community for spam, harassment, and general foul behaviour 14:01 rubenwardy He's sent hundreds of unsolicited spam emails, published confidential information, contacted work and family of people 14:01 rubenwardy Just fyi 14:01 Fear ah 14:02 Fear doxing, getting revenge on people he disagrees with by contacting their employers / families? 14:02 Fear something like that? 14:03 rubenwardy Yeah 14:03 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18946 14:03 sfan5 Fear: keep in mind when you run v4 upstream won't provide you with support, bug or security fixes and most mod authors won't try to make their stuff work on there either 14:03 rubenwardy Some context tbere 14:38 Fear is his code trustable at least? 14:39 Fear has he ever put in a backdoor / vulnerability or anything? 14:40 sfan5 I don't think he's written any code. I wouldn't trust it myself either way. 15:15 rubenwardy Fear: he has said about adding spyware to it before, but it's unlikely to actually contain bad code. It's probably not worth the risk, that are better maintained v4 forms like luk's 0.4.18 15:18 rubenwardy V5 contains a lot of features which opens ups more modding possibilities, full xyz rotation for entities, and GUI theming 15:19 rubenwardy You can have two versions on one computer 15:19 rubenwardy I have both v4 and v5 16:12 Abdou31 Hello all! 17:56 Exe_Virus Hello, I have made a lot of progress on the blender->b3d->minetest model front, and currently I am stuck trying to get animations to export in blender 2.8. Has anyone successfuly exported animated meshes to .b3d from blender 2.8 and gotten them to load in minetest? 18:05 Krock see character.b3d in minetest_game/mods/player_api/models/ 18:05 Krock alternatively one of the mobs_redo compatible mods 18:17 Calinou character.b3d was made with Blender 2.7x, if not 2.6x 18:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't override the FGIMG style property if the image parameter is null 13b50dc43 https://git.io/Je7qo (152019-12-16T18:26:57Z) 18:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove the dependency on FGIMG/BGIMG from the hovered/pressed variants 13e42faae https://git.io/Je7qK (152019-12-16T18:26:57Z) 18:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: StyleSpec: 0-initialize the property_set array 13bd4b8d4 https://git.io/Je7q6 (152019-12-16T18:26:57Z) 18:38 Exe_Virus While character.b3d works, it doesn't help me create a new .b3d. Essentially, I'm uncertain if any of my animations are actually being exported, and am looking for someone who has done blender 2.8 animation export with .b3d 20:26 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Correct documentation around minetest.item_place 13db7e59f https://git.io/Je7Yi (152019-12-16T20:24:34Z) 20:26 gpcf hi 20:26 gpcf I got severe map loading issues 20:26 gpcf on my server 20:26 gpcf using postgres 20:27 gpcf Is there any way to debug it? 20:27 gpcf such as showing how many blocks are in the emerge queue? 20:28 gpcf emerging a couple of blocks easily takes two minutes or more 20:30 gpcf Is a long emergequeue better for loading or a short one 20:30 gpcf on a system with postgres? 20:33 FriendlyPerson01 Gpcf I am sorry I can't help you but I am sure someone will sooner or later. In the meantime is someone able to help me understand if modding is the appropriate and effective approach for dealing with play ability situation like how the text of UIs get cut off if they been adjusted for larger text sizes and the chat size is not increasing for instances? 20:34 slvr How do you make the center UI go away when 3d_mode=sidebyside? 20:34 slvr There is a left, a right, and an extra un-wanted center window drawn when in a menu or crafting. 20:37 FriendlyPerson01 Hello there welcome there proller. 20:37 sfan5 gpcf: does postgres have a slow query log? 20:37 sfan5 also the server profile might give you some insight 20:37 sfan5 ("might" because I've never tried) 20:38 BuckarooBanzai gpcf: are you sure its a postgres loading issue? on the server-list you still have a "base" lag of about 400ms... 20:39 BuckarooBanzai sfan5: gpcf: slow query log: https://www.cybertec-postgresql.com/en/3-ways-to-detect-slow-queries-in-postgresql/ i used something like this before but the db wasn't the problem... 20:39 BuckarooBanzai it can be used on a "live" system too.. 20:40 gpcf blocks loaded in RAM are blazingly fast 20:41 gpcf I set the server to retain blocks for 1 day 20:41 gpcf that works incredibly well 20:41 gpcf (server has plenty of RAM to do that) 20:41 BuckarooBanzai gpcf: oh god, not the "unused_.. something" setting? 20:41 Exe_Virus what is the default? 20:42 sfan5 you are thinking of server_unload_unused_data_timeout 20:42 gpcf I set that to 86400 20:42 BuckarooBanzai sfan5: yes, that one: a negative side-effect is a heavy insert traffic on minetest-shutdown, like in the minutes area... :/ 20:43 BuckarooBanzai but i guess thats not the current problem... 20:44 Exe_Virus Update on my b3d issues. I have found the exporter works for the chracter.blend file provided by minetest, but have been unable so far to rig mine up towork identically to character.blend 20:44 Exe_Virus i.e. Someone who knows blender rigging would be able to help. 20:46 FriendlyPerson01 That's a good update indeed, thanks Exe_Virus for informing who is most likely able to help you. 20:48 gpcf I have added a second thread 20:48 gpcf that is better 20:48 gpcf and raised emergequeue total to 4096 20:48 gpcf now the values seem more reasonable 20:48 sfan5 note that there are some unsolved problems with multiple emerge threads 20:49 sfan5 also I guess the queue shouldn't get ever get that long 20:49 BuckarooBanzai single threaded works just fine, fyi 20:50 FriendlyPerson01 Precisely I am not keen on the multi emerge thread as you mentioned sfan5. 20:55 gpcf are there any settings to debug the minetest side? 20:55 gpcf like the length of the emergequeue 20:56 sfan5 there might be debug output that prints to infostream by default 20:57 sfan5 so you can either enable verbose logging 20:57 sfan5 or recompile to make just the logging you want more visible 21:01 gpcf hmm 21:01 gpcf I#d like to have some chat commands to display that kind of stats 21:01 gpcf so they could be used when the server feels laggy to see what has changed 21:02 gpcf is there any config option that limits RAM usage 21:02 gpcf ? 21:03 gpcf so you could say ram_limit = 16 G or something like that? 21:06 gpcf also, some kind of "keep in ram please" flag would be nice for certain nodes, so they do not get unloaded as easily 21:06 gpcf it would be of great use for advtrains, for instance 21:09 Exe_Virus further update: It probably has something to do with my Armature bone structure. I wanted top use a single bone, but character.blend uses multiple that are sub-bones of the master. 21:20 Calinou gpcf: blocks can be force-loaded, but not individual nodes 21:20 Calinou (a block is a 16×16×16 area) 21:21 Calinou it will likely increase CPU usage if you have a lot of them, though 21:21 Calinou gpcf: also, RAM limiting can't be achieved by the program itself but there are system utilities to do it 21:21 Calinou (I forgot the name on Linux) 21:24 gpcf I was just thinking for the server to keep the blocks cached, not active 21:41 FriendlyPerson01 gpcf I believe there a few settings for this like the "tendency" to keep mapblocks cached in RAM so your RAM usage would go up in exchange for quicker access to "likely used" mapblocks. By default I bleieve it's 29 and I believe the higher this number is the higher this "tendency" is. 21:43 Calinou does PostgreSQL have a way to keep more things in RAM? 21:44 FriendlyPerson01 Does it even do that? I thought you would need a Redis or similar for partial RAM stored DBs? 21:44 sfan5 pretty sure every serious database can cache stuff in ram 21:45 slvr Why would it not already be cached? 21:45 FriendlyPerson01 I sure it does, but I mean that's like saying you can cut cheese with any serious processor right? I think the reason that Redis exists is because it's meant for that purpose. Just like how knives are more meant to cut your cheese. 21:46 slvr clearly you've never been disk bound while using redis 21:47 FriendlyPerson01 Nor had I used it, I just known it's reowned for being flexible in regards to to in RAM DB. 21:47 slvr It's not. It's just dumb and simple. 21:49 FriendlyPerson01 I am sorry, I wasn't aware of that being the case. I was just attempting to help with what I read online, I didn't mean to cause any harms. :( 21:49 * slvr may have overreacted 21:50 slvr anyway, postgres tuning is a good idea. Check your disk activity and see if it's syncing on every transaction. 21:53 slvr There is a note here to raise the shared_buffer postgres setting. That might help? https://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends 21:53 Calinou yeah, you could look at other articles to optimize PostgreSQL in general 21:54 Calinou in software, defaults are often tailored to old/low-end machines :) 21:54 slvr You need to profile the load for general tuning advice to be applicable. 22:16 codic If only Minetest had proper shadows.. 22:20 slvr raytraced minetest would be amazing 22:27 ronsor and have terrible performance 22:28 FriendlyPerson01 As far as I tell ronsor, Minetest is on par to Minecraft 1.12.2 graphic wise. I have an APU can hardly maintains 59FPS. 22:28 slvr It'd probably be ok as long as your view distance is not far. 22:29 slvr eg, in a cave. 22:29 slvr speaking of perf, does the software renderer even work? I was getting segmentation faults when trying to use it. 22:30 rubenwardy you should avoid the software renderer 22:30 rubenwardy if you have a choice to 22:30 rubenwardy also try burningsvideo, that sometimes works better 22:30 slvr I was trying to use it because my buggy nvidia drivers were drawing my charater about 50000 blocks behind where I was standing. 22:44 codic Well Minecraft does. Minecraft is written in java, and with some basic shaders, it runs alright; Minetest is written in the more performant c++ 22:47 ronsor burningsvideo works fine 22:48 ronsor I've used it in a VM without hardware acceleration 22:50 FriendlyPerson01 forgive me for my lack of knowing what is even burningsvideo? 22:51 ronsor a software renderer 22:52 FriendlyPerson01 I see gotcha. 23:00 slvr I actually tried burningsvideo too with no better results. 23:01 slvr Maybe my minetest package is old enough that new fixes might help. I have the ubuntu bionic package. 23:02 FriendlyPerson01 You can go onto the "latest" with the 3rd party PPA that maintained by the official Minetest. If you need help with this I could help you do this. 23:05 slvr Thanks, I can handle that. I wonder if that would be a good first step before attempting to build it from source. 23:06 FriendlyPerson01 Seems good and to me it seems it's a reasonable first step. 23:33 FriendlyPerson01 Hello there welcome both of you. :) 23:47 FriendlyPerson01 Hi there, welcome admicos 23:49 admicos o/ 23:49 FriendlyPerson01 How you even ragequit on this channel anyways? 23:50 admicos ragequit? 23:50 FriendlyPerson01 Yea apparently tpe ragequit this channel. 23:51 admicos oh, i thought you were replying to me lol 23:52 FriendlyPerson01 Oh no sorry for confusing thee such wonderful person. I was baffled on how someone even rage quit on a IRC channel like this. 23:55 FriendlyPerson01 Hello there welcome MDude 23:55 MDude Hi 23:56 FriendlyPerson01 Hello there, how are you? 23:56 FriendlyPerson01 Welcome back puzzlecube.