Time  Nick            Message
00:04 Calinou         Flatpak isn't designed for server applications, so no
00:04 Calinou         (for that purpose, use the Docker container or build a binary from source)
00:22 skibur          So what is the difference from minetest --server and minetestserver  ?
00:25 skibur          ah
00:26 skibur          nvm, Go it
00:26 skibur          Got it*
00:31 skibur          Downloading source
00:42 leo_rockway     does anybody know what FSAA is in the context of Irrlicht?
00:42 leo_rockway     I'm getting this message when I start minetest and I'm curious as to what it means: Irrlicht: No FSAA available.
00:43 Menche          antialiasing
00:43 leo_rockway     interesting. Thanks Menche.
05:38 skibur          I think Minetest Docker image is broken.
05:38 skibur          Cannot create user directory
05:49 tpa             hello ^.^
05:55 leo_rockway     hi
06:02 skibur          Interesting...
06:46 tpa             Is this channel still active?
06:46 Krock           no, it dieded
06:46 Krock           see logs for activity
06:47 tpa             There are logs?
06:47 tpa             Has the B... girl been on recently? I forget her nick... was really good friends with Vault.
06:47 tpa             Bess or Beck or something.
06:48 Krock           see /topic
06:48 Krock           !seen Beck
06:48 MinetestBot     Krock: Sorry, I haven't seen beck around.
06:48 Krock           !seen Bess
06:48 MinetestBot     Krock: Sorry, I haven't seen bess around.
06:49 tpa             Wow thanks! These logs go back to daconcepts :o
06:49 tpa             :))
06:49 tpa             Were individual channels on daconcepts logged?
06:49 VanessaE        no, they weren't.
06:49 tpa             Aw. Kk. :(
06:49 tpa             Thanks! ^.^
06:49 VanessaE        though individual users may have their own private logs.
06:50 tpa             Yes, of course. :)
06:50 VanessaE        daconcepts was part of Inchra net, so maybe ShadowNinja has logs somewhere
06:50 tpa             How has minetest been? I noticed you can't lag-glitch past walls anymore.
06:50 tpa             Oh wao.
06:50 VanessaE        (my servers are now on freenode)
06:58 tpa             Oh was inchranet bigger than just daconcepts. I didn't know. That's cool.
06:59 VanessaE        only like, 3 or 4 servers in total
06:59 VanessaE        my box was a footnote :P
07:01 Krock           tpa: you can still glitch through whatever you want, just requires some lag
07:01 tpa             Rip.
09:25 dyamon          hi all, still trying to understand the minetest engine capabilities. Is it possible at all to code a subgame that is less minecraft-y and resembles more something like CubeWorld (https://picroma.com/cubeworld)?
09:30 dyamon          I mean, for now I'm more interested in visual features than game mechanics
09:48 Calinou         subgames don't have control over shaders or similar, so you wouldn't be able to achieve CubeWorld-like visuals without modifying the engine
09:49 Calinou         oh wait, that's a completely different game I had in mind
09:49 Calinou         (like, a game with fancy shadows and water reflections… not Terasology, it's some other voxel game)
09:58 dyamon          yeah I suspected that...but is this a direction the engine is taking (i.e., exposing more and more features like shaders and camera controls)? or is this just not the aim of the project?
10:00 Krock           dyamon: Minetest does not require clients to be capable running shaders, so it won't be controllable anytime
10:01 Krock           it's however possible to set basic stuff like FOV, camera position and rotation would be a possibility to
10:01 Krock           +o
10:01 Krock           bbl
10:35 micheal65536    i'm having a problem with a local server
10:35 micheal65536    minetest doesn't seem to work with a bridge interface
10:35 micheal65536    i run minetest and choose the host server option but when i try to connect with a second client it doesn't connect
10:35 micheal65536    even if i connect to localhost, on the same host
10:45 micheal65536    i tested it on my laptop which does not have a bridge interface and i get the same issue
10:45 micheal65536    so it's not the bridge interface that causes it
10:46 micheal65536    don't know what it is though, i never had this problem when i used ubuntu but on arch i get it with 0.4.16 and 5.0.0
10:52 micheal65536    netstat/ss shows listening UDP socket on the expected port
10:58 micheal65536    hmm looks like UDP packets don't work on either of my arch systems
10:59 micheal65536    nvm works on my laptop
10:59 micheal65536    ok correction: loopback (localhost) UDP doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536    but that's not all, because minetest doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536    so UDP desktop -> desktop doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536    UDP laptop -> laptop doesn't work
11:01 micheal65536    UDP desktop -> laptop works
11:01 micheal65536    minetest desktop -> laptop doesn't work
11:01 micheal65536    and supertuxkart which also uses UDP works just fine btw
11:03 micheal65536    omg that worked
11:03 micheal65536    ok so it seems that in arch linux "localhost" only works for TCP not UDP???
11:03 micheal65536    if i use the IP address 127.0.0.1 it works
11:03 Krock           nice how this problem solved itself
11:04 micheal65536    except it didn't really because why doesn't it work
11:04 Ingar           looks more like an issue with your bridge setup
11:04 Ingar           mt is unaware of any bridges
11:04 micheal65536    (oh and also minetest desktop -> laptop didn't work because i was dumb and i was still trying to connect to desktop)
11:04 micheal65536    Ingar: no i've ruled out the bridge already
11:05 Ingar           s/bridge/network setup/
11:05 micheal65536    seems to be that in arch linux if you type "localhost" into the hostname field for a UDP connection it doesn't work
11:05 Ingar           tbh
11:05 micheal65536    this applies to both minetest and netcat
11:05 Ingar           I had funky name resolution on arch this week
11:05 Ingar           systemctl restart systemd-resolved solved them
11:05 micheal65536    which is super wierd because hostname resolution is separate from connection protocol
11:06 micheal65536    Ingar: ok thanks for letting me know but i did reboot this morning though
11:06 Ingar           (but I also had DNS issues on windows, so currently I mostly blame my ISP)
11:06 Ingar           micheal65536: it was recurring, reboot didnt matter
11:06 micheal65536    huh, i thought `restart` restarts the service but this happens by implication if the entire system is restarted anyway
11:07 Ingar           I mean, I had restarted the service, problem comes back, I have to restart service again
11:07 micheal65536    but it seems to only apply to "localhost" though and TCP is fine
11:07 micheal65536    i'm going to read up see if i can find any mention of this in the arch stuff anywhere
11:07 Ingar           firewall issue ?
11:08 micheal65536    hmm i wonder if it's IPv6
11:08 Ingar           or that
11:08 micheal65536    wow ok so in my /etc/hosts file i have both `127.0.0.1` and `::1` listed for localhost
11:09 Ingar           yes
11:09 Ingar           that's normal
11:09 micheal65536    i never really use IPv6 but that's how the arch wiki said to set it up
11:09 micheal65536    but if i take the `::1` line out then suddenly `localhost` works with UDP netcat
11:09 micheal65536    but even with the `::1` line in it still works for TCP but not UDP
11:09 Ingar           in essence IPv4 and IPv6 are separate and the application chooses the protocal
11:09 Ingar           *protocol
11:09 micheal65536    i know that's why it's so strange
11:10 micheal65536    hostnames and IPv4/6 shouldn't matter whether i'm using TCP or UDP, they're separate layers
11:16 epoch           but programs won't do both ipv4 and ipv6 for every udp or tcp connection.
11:17 micheal65536    no it's either IPv4 or IPv6 depending on what kind of address you give it (or what kind of address the hostname resolves to)
11:20 epoch           the tcp or udp handling code in netcat might have different methods of picking which IP version to use.
11:21 epoch           which version of netcat is it?
11:21 micheal65536    bsd
11:23 epoch           the UDP might be using AF_UNSPEC and TCP might be pushed into AF_INET or AF_INET6
11:24 * epoch         still looking at the code
11:24 epoch           family defaults to AF_UNSPEC though
11:29 Daisae          I turned off clouds and yet idling at the welcome screen still consumes half a CPU. 'FPS in pause menu' = 1
13:22 brucemuggins    Can someone please help with either controls or something I'm missing. I'm trying to work out how to move trains from advancedtrains down slopes. I keep seeing the safety override come on and I can't work out why?
14:41 skibur          Has anybody successfully setup the official Minetest Docker contianer?
14:41 skibur          I've spend hours trying to set it up
14:42 skibur          I keep getting can't write to x files. I've made sure volume is mount correctly and the permissions are good to go.  Could there be an issue with the image itself?
14:54 skibur          Where can I find the Mintest Docker Dockerfile?
14:55 skibur          I would like to check it out.
14:59 * Krock         is here but cannot help
15:12 NathanS21       I've used this docker image, https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-minetest
15:13 NathanS21       It ran just fine, but I couldn't figure out how to specify a world or game, so I was always stuck with Minetest_game which wasn't what I wanted.
15:13 NathanS21       I'm sure it works, I just don't know what I'm doing.
15:15 jluc            hello
15:16 jluc            birthday party for my son
15:16 jluc            with other 10 years olds
15:17 jluc            in Elepower Playground server
15:19 jluc            they are speaking french !
15:19 VanessaE        I have to ask:  why Docker?  what's the point?
15:20 VanessaE        (in the context of MT that is)
15:26 jluc            in case you join, his nick is Zario
15:26 skibur          VanessaE, I have CentOS 7 server and compiling is out of the question and Flatpak version is a Client/Server.
15:26 VanessaE        why is compiling out of the question?
15:26 skibur          NathanS21, Is that the official one?  Did you have to "docker create -v /....."?
15:27 skibur          CentOS 7 has gcc 4.8.5 and Minetest requires 5 and above.
15:27 VanessaE        ohh
15:27 NathanS21       I don't know if it's official or not. I used the docker plugin in OpenMediaVault
15:28 VanessaE        my servers run on debian, with gcc 6.3.0)
15:31 skibur          I get the following when starting minetest Docker: https://pastebin.com/6EA4VVmY
15:55 tpa             !seen araceil32
15:55 MinetestBot     tpa: Sorry, I haven't seen araceil32 around.
15:55 tpa             !seen Vault
15:55 MinetestBot     tpa: vault was last seen at 2016-12-05 20:42:14 UTC on #minetest
15:55 tpa             Aw.
16:04 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: my alternative docker file: https://git.rudin.io/docker/minetest-docker/src/master/Dockerfile i'm using docker-compose on pandorabox to orchestrate my various services: https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox.io/blob/master/docker-compose.yml it has the benefit that everything is in one place and moving is just copying files :)
16:05 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: and your error sounds like a permission issue, or non-existant folder...
16:27 skibur          BuckarooBanzai7, Thanks for the input.  I do have the folders in place and permission.  I still feel like it's permissions.  I will take a look at your Dockerfile.  Thanks!
16:37 skibur          BuckarooBanzai7,
16:37 skibur          BuckarooBanzai7, What is your docker version?
16:47 GreenDimond     Any thoughts on how I should go about obtaining the filepath for a texture?
16:47 GreenDimond     (assuming I know only the texture name, not the mod of origin)
16:49 GreenDimond     I just had the thought to loop through all loaded mod dirs and create a map of image files for later use
16:49 GreenDimond     If there is a better method, that might be appreciated.
16:58 paramat         !tell dyamon "What if I wanted to scale down the world (in a way that cubes appear smaller)" you can make players twice the size to do this (but light will appear to spread half as far), but you can't make cubes smaller
16:58 MinetestBot     paramat: I'll pass that on when dyamon is around
17:09 paramat         !tell dyamon yes subgames (we call them games now) can be made that are very different from minecraft. more camera controls are being requested, see engine issues
17:09 MinetestBot     paramat: yeah, yeah
17:12 Cornelia        ... paramat : I now want to make a game where everyone is, like, a tenth of the size. XD
17:13 GreenDimond     I messed around with player sizes on my server with worldedit
17:13 GreenDimond     Turned a player into a chicken, shrunk myself to ~1/4 my size and rode them around.
17:13 Krock           yee haaw
17:13 Cornelia        :p
17:14 GreenDimond     At one point shrunk myself to 0.01 of my scale
17:14 GreenDimond     That was fun
17:14 Cornelia        Neato.
17:14 GreenDimond     Also tried being huge, taller than the clouds.
17:14 GreenDimond     The limit on camera offset is sometimes annoying ;p
17:14 Krock           but then you run into mapblock loading issues
17:14 GreenDimond     Yeah
17:14 GreenDimond     Being small is way more fun
17:15 GreenDimond     especially with tiny collision and low eye height
17:15 GreenDimond     Could totally make a game based around that
17:15 GreenDimond     mini player living in the walls of a regular NPC house
17:15 GreenDimond     Sounds familiar >.>
17:16 Krock           call it Soy Tory
17:16 GreenDimond     Not what I was aiming for, but close enough ;P
17:17 Cornelia        Borrowersssssss
17:17 GreenDimond     \o/
17:17 Cornelia        \o/
17:18 Cornelia        Would either have to make NPCs gigantic or implement support for smaller cubes so you could build internal wall collisions... Can blocks be defined with hollow spaces and ledges for collision?
17:19 skibur          BuckarooBanzai7, I got it working
17:19 skibur          the Official one
17:19 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: congrats, but last time i checked there was postgres and spatialindes/areastore missing :(
17:20 skibur          In Dockerfile it has ..... USER root  then  USER minetest.  and the home is in docker is /var/lib/minetest  which causes the error.
17:21 skibur          I just used USER root to test it out
17:21 skibur          and it worked
17:21 BuckarooBanzai7 just fyi: that image wont scale with lots of players/big worldsize (reasons above)
17:22 skibur          yes
17:22 skibur          understand
17:22 BuckarooBanzai7 nice to see someone else using docker btw :D
17:22 skibur          hehe
17:22 skibur          Setting up a server for my kids
17:23 skibur          We are going to play this summer.
17:23 skibur          :)
17:25 Cornelia        :)
20:04 DS-minetest     hello
20:39 tacotexmex      Hi pyrollo!
20:47 DS-minetest     should I rather use a pointer to a pointer or a reference to a pointer?
20:54 DS-minetest     how to find out in c++ whether an object is of a class that inherits another class?
20:57 leo_rockway     has anybody tried to run a server on an RPi? would a 3b+ be powerful enough for a few players?
21:09 p_gimeno        DS-minetest: the former is a question of style, the latter you can find with dynamic_cast
21:12 p_gimeno        leo_rockway: for just a few players (maybe 3 or 4) it could run half-decently, but RAM can be a bit of a problem, so be careful with the mods you load
21:13 DS-minetest     p_gimeno: thanks!
21:18 Krock           leo_rockway: Megaf ran/runs a server on their PI 2B
21:18 Krock           stable for simple mods and a few players, but nothing heavy
21:19 Krock           DS-minetest: I think that pointer pointer might be easier to understand in some cases, rather than mixing the two
21:19 DS-minetest     mhm
22:42 CopenBra[m]     guys get a load of this lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/by93mz/join_the_community_minetest_discord_discord_server/
22:42 CopenBra[m]     > This discord is an alternative to the "Unofficial Minetest", it aims to establish an independence of the Minetest project and establish a fork version that would allow the whole community to participate in its development and not only to a reduced team of individual, refusing any dialogue or modification ... Our goal is to allow Minetest to be closer to an Open Source vision, less sectarian and less closed.
22:42 GreenDimond     Isnt it great? x)
22:43 CopenBra[m]     it's hilarious
22:43 GreenDimond     Someone already made an alt discord, it never took off. This one wont either ;p
22:43 CopenBra[m]     i joined the discord just to be sure and it's real
22:45 GreenDimond     The Unofficial Discord has almost 500 members, so good luck to anyone making an alt server.
22:45 DS-minetest     so, ... is it real?
22:45 GreenDimond     > it's real
22:45 GreenDimond     As he just said
22:46 DS-minetest     oh, i misread, sorry
22:46 GreenDimond     Hehe
22:47 DS-minetest     I thought it was "to be sure that it's real"
22:51 CopenBra[m]     so what's your favorite servers?
22:51 CopenBra[m]     any good servers for making friends?
22:51 Nezrok          RedCat
22:52 GreenDimond     Thats a good one
22:55 CopenBra[m]     Does anyone enjoy playing nodecore?
22:55 CopenBra[m]     I think it's a pretty interesting subgame. It's like figuring out puzzles, trying to figure out how to craft things.
22:55 GreenDimond     Nodecore is quite nice
22:57 CopenBra[m]     I like subgames where you can't just punch a tree trunk and start building tools immediately
22:58 GreenDimond     Which is.. not a lot
22:59 CopenBra[m]     well there's 3 I know of so far
22:59 Nezrok          You don't like having fists of fury? :p
22:59 CopenBra[m]     nodecore, voxelgarden, and fliptest
23:00 Nezrok          Watch me punch through this tree, this cow, and everything else!
23:00 DS-minetest     what about realtest?
23:00 rdococ          with minetest euler angles, is a pitch of -90 straight up, or straight down?
23:01 * CopenBra[m]   punches through Nezrok
23:01 Nezrok          r.i.p me
23:01 GreenDimond     pitch is consistent in both types, so wouldnt it be down?
23:02 CopenBra[m]     I'm getting an error when I try to join redcat "Protocol version mismatch. Sever supports protocol versions between 24 and 32. We only support protocol verson 37."
23:02 DS-minetest     debug mode says positive is up
23:02 CopenBra[m]     <DS-minetest "what about realtest?"> I thought realtest was dead
23:02 Nezrok          It's still on .4.16
23:02 DS-minetest     but I wouldn't trust
23:02 Nezrok          Sorry about that :p
23:02 GreenDimond     Yeouch
23:03 rdococ          GreenDimond: at least using player look, it's straight up
23:03 DS-minetest     CopenBra[m]: someone just has to update it, (which means much work)
23:03 rdococ          I don't know about lua entity rotations, though. player look seems to be in radians as well, while lua_api.txt says that lua entity rotations are in degrees.
23:03 GreenDimond     Yeah I dont like minetest rotations much
23:03 DS-minetest     and if this happens, will you call it "undead"?
23:05 CopenBra[m]     my goodness, the last commit to the realtest repo was in 2014
23:06 DS-minetest     hey, that's even a bit older than the oldest open minetest PR
23:07 paramat         F5 only shows straight up view pitch as positive to make it more friendly. actual internal view pitch is the opposite. not sure about entity rotation
23:07 rdococ          F5 doesn't show pitch at all for me
23:08 GreenDimond     Isnt that a new thing
23:08 GreenDimond     like dev build
23:08 paramat         "allow the whole community to participate in its development and not only to a reduced team of individual, refusing any dialogue or modification" heh what nonsense
23:08 paramat         yes in dev version
23:08 rdococ          the dev build I have does show pitch
23:08 GreenDimond     We think he did this because there was a discussion questioning his decision of packaging blockcolor as a standalone engine thing
23:09 GreenDimond     rather than using the CDB
23:17 leo_rockway     p_gimeno: thanks :) I have an unused PI3B+ I might try.
23:18 CopenBra[m]     he wants to make a minetest fork that runs on votes and discussions or someting
23:18 GreenDimond     saywhatnow
23:18 paramat         oh god, democracy
23:19 rdococ          oof
23:20 * DS-minetest   reading something on the forums thinks about whether there's really something like anti-KISS to make modifying the client more difficult ?
23:20 CopenBra[m]     he claims a lot of pull requests are refused
23:21 paramat         lol yes naturally
23:21 leo_rockway     I think having the community run development when they are not writing the code for free in their free time is pretty close to madness.
23:22 Nezrok          Isn't the point of having a small group of dedicated people at the core so that the project doesn't lose focus?
23:22 paramat         still, i think it's under 50% PRs refused, which is quite good actually
23:23 leo_rockway     I'm guessing that if somebody wanted to be part of that group, several good quality PRs would grant them that.
23:23 GreenDimond     Are you getting that info from his Discord, CopenBra[m]?
23:26 GreenDimond     Also, speaking of Reddit, someone needs to update the description to reflect the new minetest.net description (remove references to Minecraft)
23:27 DS-minetest     31.616% of all minetest PRs are marked as merged
23:27 DS-minetest     (of all closed I mean, sorry)
23:28 DS-minetest     (this doesn't mean that the others weren't merged)
23:32 Pie-jacker875   neat my minetest world is causing crashes again
23:33 paramat         hm yes it's hard to tell how many are 'refused', but then, many are refused for good reason
23:34 paramat         technically, all refused PRs are refused for good reason, as perceived by the core devs
23:35 GreenDimond     im sure many are duplicates
23:35 GreenDimond     As PRs get outdated
23:35 DS-minetest     nah, not so many, most that get outdated are rebased, I guess
23:37 DS-minetest     anyway, it's not the number of merged PRs that counts, it's github which counts the PRs, how did you think that a number could count?
23:39 DS-minetest     there are many small PRs (eg. some that just fix one line in documentation) which are not hard to accept
23:39 DS-minetest     the thing that matters more is, how easy exotic PRs are merged