Time  Nick        Message
00:22 makayabou   Something else I don't understand.. protection. We don't have a kind of minetest.protect(pos,owner) in API, do we ? I looked at the code of Areas mod and Node_ownership but I couldn't find something similar..
00:23 rubenwardy  makayabou: minetest.is_protected()
00:23 rubenwardy  the areas mod utilises that
00:27 makayabou   I saw that in lua_api.txt but I can't understand the example with the calling of the function by itself.. and I think I understand minetest.is_protected() is like a question and I don't get how I set on the node that it will return true when calling minetest.is_protected() on it
00:28 rubenwardy  makayabou: you'd need to override that method to implement your own protection system
00:28 rubenwardy  the method is a hook which allows mods to implement protection
00:29 makayabou   I think I start to understand ... i'll try some things
00:33 makayabou   And do I have to register a minetest.register_on_punchnode? or is it included in is_protected?
00:34 rubenwardy  it's included
00:47 makayabou   Is mymod:position_protected_from(pos, name) the same than mymod.position_protected_from(pos, name) ?
00:47 rubenwardy  no
00:48 rubenwardy  never, ever, use : on a mod variable like that
00:48 rubenwardy  it's very bad practice
00:48 rubenwardy  : is syntactic sugar which mans pass table as self
00:48 VanessaE    plus it may open up wormholes, burn down bridges, and hurt innocent little kittens
00:49 rubenwardy  so   mymod:func(pos)   is the same as    mymod.func(mymod, pos)
00:49 rubenwardy  exactly the same
00:49 rubenwardy  and   function mymod:func(pos) end    is exactly the same as   function mymod.func(self, pos) end
00:50 rubenwardy  exactly the same :P)
00:50 rubenwardy  : should only be used when the table represents some object, as in Object Oriented Programming
00:50 rubenwardy  for example:     stack:get_count()
00:50 rubenwardy  because there's more than one Item Stack in the world
00:51 makayabou   yes , but stack is not the same as mymod ?
00:52 makayabou   or are you not refering mymod as mymodname?
00:53 rubenwardy  stack is an item stack
00:53 rubenwardy  it's an example of a good use of :
00:53 rubenwardy  local stack = ItemStack("default:stone 99")
00:53 rubenwardy  stack:get_count()    -- 99
00:53 makayabou   yes that is ok for me
00:54 rubenwardy  I'm saying that you should use . instead of : when it's a global mod table
00:54 rubenwardy  for example:    minetest.register_node()          bucket.register_bucket()
00:55 makayabou   ah ok! mymod:position_protected_from(pos, name) was the example on lua_api.txt
00:56 p_gimeno    colon and dot have each its own meaning, you need to distinguish where to use each
00:56 makayabou   I thought i did but sometimes i doubt.. )
00:57 p_gimeno    and yeah, that example is misleading, it's unusual to use colon in that case
00:57 rubenwardy  yay, matrix!
00:59 p_gimeno    colon syntax is designed for invoking methods of a class instance
00:59 rubenwardy  exactly
00:59 rubenwardy  a class instance is also known as an object
00:59 rubenwardy  which is confusing as minetest has something else called an object
00:59 rubenwardy  !book object
00:59 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Objects, Players, and Entities - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/objects.html
01:01 makayabou   mon livre de chevet
01:02 makayabou   I thank you a lot for the book it's very useful
01:02 rubenwardy  yw
01:31 air         why did the player get shorter in 5.0?
01:31 rubenwardy  air: you need to update Minetest Game
01:31 rubenwardy  or any games you use
01:31 rubenwardy  and 3d_armor
01:32 air         ok
01:32 air         thanks
01:32 rubenwardy  if you're refering to the player being half in the ground, that is
01:33 air         first person view is lower to ground - http://mt.qzx.com/bug-4-5-height.png
01:33 air         see crosshair position on the block
01:35 rubenwardy  yeah, you'll be in the groung
01:35 rubenwardy  wait, maybe not
01:35 rubenwardy  try f7
01:36 air         feet arent in ground in third person
01:37 air         and that test world is using 5.0 game and doesnt have 3d armor
01:37 air         problem also exists on xanadu server which probably has 3d armor
01:38 rubenwardy  well, the cursor may have just moved slightly
01:39 air         the cursor didnt move, the camera is closer to the ground
01:40 air         center of view was 1.5 blocks and is now 1.333 blocks above ground
02:15 paramat     yes the minetest game character model is slightly shorter now
02:15 paramat     because the pixels of the body and limbs used to be stretched vertically, now they're not
02:16 paramat     so the player model is proportioned exactly like a MC player now
02:17 p_gimeno    um but why does that affect the camera position?
02:17 paramat     because the camera has been lowered to be at centre of head
02:18 paramat     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/eaf6eac723038e7d74d3640a00cc560ccc4c669f/mods/player_api/init.lua#L18
02:18 paramat     eye height is actually 1.47 nodes now
02:19 paramat     total height 1.7 nodes
02:21 p_gimeno    (btw, forget about animated chests until #7930 is implemented)
02:21 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7930 -- Support for Mesh Animations in Mesh Nodes
02:21 air         are your eyes 9" below the top of your head?
02:21 air         mine are half that
02:23 air         minecraft eye height is 1.62
02:23 paramat     yes if your head is 18 inches tall
02:24 paramat     eye height is at player model head centre, i coded that myself
02:24 air         it isn't correct and I feel like I'm crawling now
02:25 paramat     it is correct
02:25 paramat     you're just used to how it was
02:26 air         anyone who plays minecraft will be used to how it was
02:26 paramat     easily changed in code if you don't like it
02:26 paramat     MC is irrelevant here
02:27 air         how many years did minetest use the previous height, is that time period irrelevant too?
02:28 paramat     no, but things change for the better. don't worry you'll get used to it
02:31 rubenwardy  paramat: 1.47 is less than 5 feet tall
02:32 rubenwardy  whereas 1.63 is just less than 5 and a half
02:32 rubenwardy  well, depends on how big the forehead is 8)
02:33 air         abnormally huge
02:33 paramat     yeah the model has a big head
02:33 paramat     well, you're assuming a node is 1 meter ...
02:33 rubenwardy  Users won't be manually measuring height
02:33 rubenwardy  that's typically how it's defined
02:34 paramat     not so actually
02:34 AceNovo     "Camera is at the center of the head" == "Player is seeing things out the avatar's nose" Hahaha
02:34 air         math doesnt care what you assign node height to, it works out the same
02:34 paramat     eyes are roughly central in a head actually, and for player textures is the average eye position
02:35 AceNovo     I don't care. I just want an Android build without updating my Android dev environment
02:36 erstazi     Is 0.4.17-1 protocol version 27?
02:36 AceNovo     Any love? Last I see is from January and that didn't have a link to the APK
02:36 paramat     with the new player model height, equating it to average human height, a node is now much closer to being 1m, before it wasn't by that method
02:37 paramat     i don't understand android builds sorry
02:37 rubenwardy  assuming the player is of an average height, then a node is a meter
02:37 rubenwardy  or slightly bigger than a meter
02:38 rubenwardy  wait, average male height
02:38 rubenwardy  if it's the average male height, then a node is still roughly the same as a meter, but not slightly bigger
02:38 rubenwardy  I measure the player at 1.68 nodes
02:39 rubenwardy  wait, you said it was 1.77m tall anyway
02:39 rubenwardy  oops
02:39 rubenwardy  1.7 nodes
02:40 rubenwardy  from a quick google, the average eye height is 12cm lower
02:40 rubenwardy  which means eye height should be 1.58
02:41 paramat     node = 1m was a common MT misconception, being common didn't make it true. if average human height = MTG player model height is the only way to judge it (which seems the case) nodes used to be much less than 1m
02:41 paramat     well, big head
02:41 paramat     =)
02:41 AceNovo     After searching 2 days... https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=22278&start=100#p346318
02:42 rubenwardy  AceNovo:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases
02:43 paramat     the eyes need to be at the average player skin eye position, otherwise when you stand face to face with another player, it feels like you're looking out of your forehead =D
02:43 rubenwardy  true
02:43 rubenwardy  also, it means that you can tell if a player can see you
02:43 rubenwardy  well, maybe not
02:44 rubenwardy  (was going to say by seeing their eyes, but that's not true)
02:44 rubenwardy  (we're not just eyes)
02:46 * paramat   is just eyes =
02:46 AceNovo     OK, thanks everyone. Annoy you again soon
02:48 paramat     i type by bouncing my eyeballs on the keys
02:49 rubenwardy  lol
02:51 AceNovo     Which may be why you don't remember posting to the forum yesterday that 5.0 had been pushed to Google Play Store :D
02:57 benrob0329  I see no reason why a node shouldn't be a meter
02:58 benrob0329  Its worked out to be about that for years, and it makes scaling easy
02:58 benrob0329  (Unless you want to make it a yard, but even us Americans would groan at that)
02:59 benrob0329  Also, your eyes are about in the middle of your head, just not the middle of your face :-)
03:00 p_gimeno    it's a question of definition; if the player is a bit out of proportions it should not matter, the average person is >2m in SL and yet measurements are all in m
03:03 paramat     it hasn't necessarily worked out to be 1m, it wasn't if you determined it by equating MTG player model height to average human height. i depends how you determine it
03:03 paramat     *it
03:04 rubenwardy  p_gimeno: SL?
03:04 p_gimeno    Second Life
03:06 GreenDimond are elements drawn outside the form size still sent to the client?
03:09 rubenwardy  yes
03:09 rubenwardy  formspecs are entirely client-side
03:09 rubenwardy  they're sent as-is, with no parsing on the server
03:09 GreenDimond Wonderful
03:10 GreenDimond This is very good
12:42 clavi       Fixer: according to this, carpathian is still unstable
12:42 clavi       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19132
12:43 p_gimeno    clavi: look at the last post
12:43 p_gimeno    eep
12:43 p_gimeno    I think that was an oversight
13:02 clavi       so it's actually stable?
13:03 p_gimeno    better wait for paramat to give a definitive answer
13:04 p_gimeno    it's stable in the sense of supported, but I'm not sure it's stable in the sense of not going to change
13:04 clavi       yes I mean the latter thing
13:04 clavi       I wonder when valleys will be stable as in not changing anymore, I really like it
13:12 clavi       can I change the distance after which transparent textures are rendered in lower quality? https://i.imgur.com/CWFHDu7.jpg
13:22 ANAND       clavi: AFAIK, Minetest does not support LOD
13:22 ANAND       i.e. The nodes in the distance are rendered at the same quality as the nodes in proximity, transparent or not.
14:08 Y           Hi
14:08 Y           Anyone here?
14:08 sfan5       there's about 166 people "here", though most are not present
14:09 Guest76938  Oh ok
14:21 clavi       ANAND: why does it render them differently then?
14:21 clavi       it's pretty obvious in the spot I marked
14:34 ANAND       Probably because it's too small for our eyes to perceive all the tiny details?
14:42 rubenwardy  clavi: looks like you have mipmap enabled
14:44 clavi       can I disable mipmap but enable anisotropic filter?
14:44 clavi       the settings menu only offers anisotropic in combination with mipmap
15:42 benrob0329  clavi: check under all settings
17:02 clavi       you can enable anisotropic filtering alone in settings, but it has no effect
17:07 sofar       Clavi: yeah, looks like it. Make a GitHub issue?
17:09 Calinou     clavi: anisotropic filtering without mipmaps doesn't make sense to me
17:09 Calinou     anisotropic filtering without bilinear/trilinear filtering makes sense though
17:10 Calinou     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_filtering
17:11 sofar       I never enable filtering
17:12 sofar       I do have mipmaps enabled
17:12 sofar       Still AA settings do nothing
17:13 clavi       I've noticed the same, seems like AA is fixed at 4x, no matter the setting
17:14 sofar       I don't see any AA effect
17:14 sofar       Still hard zig zags everywhere
17:16 clavi       I can change AA settings in other games so I doubt it's the driver (amdgpu on Linux)
17:16 clavi       or rather I'm sure that's not it
17:17 clavi       AA settings have no effect in MT 0.4.17 too so it's not a regression either
17:23 Wuzzy2      hi
17:23 clavi       hi
17:24 rubenwardy  oh no, there's another one!
17:25 benrob0329  Clearly this is the sequal, but it only works on -dev
17:40 Calinou     seems to work on NVIDIA here
17:41 Calinou     but I do have antialiasing forced in the driver…
17:42 Calinou     I disabled driver-forced AA and it still works in Minetest
20:01 p_gimeno    There's something fishy with the antialiasing choice. It seem to randomly work or not work. I haven't found a way to reproduce it.
20:02 p_gimeno    Ahh, found it. It requires a restert.
20:02 p_gimeno    restart, even.
20:02 p_gimeno    it would be nice to document that
20:04 sfan5       there's an issue open, even
20:05 p_gimeno    heh, true, I didn't look
20:05 p_gimeno    thanks :)
21:37 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix texture rotation for wallmounted nodeboxes 135b99abb https://git.io/fjfYn (152019-03-19T21:36:51Z)
21:57 paramat     clavi don't worry about mapgens being 'unstable', being 'officially stable' means 'guaranteed to never change', that's a huge commitment to make. however, 'unstable' mapgens are unlikely to change much, and we'll try to not change them at all. the forum post is correct
21:58 paramat     p_gimeno ^
21:58 clavi       okay thanks
21:59 paramat     until recently mgv6 was the only 'stable' mapgen
22:00 paramat     so really no need to avoid an unstable mapgen, you miss all the fun that way
22:04 p_gimeno    thanks
22:04 paramat     and yes unstable mapgens and worlds using them will always be supported
22:05 p_gimeno    I'm trying 0.4.13, is it normal that v5 and v7 had no trees?
22:05 paramat     hmm i think the terminology is a little misleading and maybe not very helpful stated this wy
22:06 paramat     possibly normal yes, just dirt and grass?
22:06 p_gimeno    yes and flowers and stuff
22:06 p_gimeno    as if there was just a single biome
22:07 paramat     that may be before multiple biomes were registered for non-mgv6 mapgens
22:08 p_gimeno    makes sense
22:08 paramat     hm no MTG 0.4.13 has several biomes, try travelling further?
22:09 paramat     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/2392842948b114670334eabbb593b66e1427747c/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L317
22:09 p_gimeno    I already did
22:10 paramat     'where are the trees' was a common complaint because players were used to small scale biomes in mgv6
22:11 paramat     hm
22:11 p_gimeno    oh wait, mtg was at 0.4.12
22:11 p_gimeno    sorry
22:13 paramat     yes, just grassland and flowers in 0.4.12
22:13 p_gimeno    yep, 0.4.13 has biomes, my bad
22:13 p_gimeno    thanks
22:13 paramat     yes 1 biome
22:32 paramat     yes, this 'stable mapgen' thing is not good, in practice what happens is that the chances of change
22:32 paramat     ... and the size of those changes, reduces over time like a curve
22:33 paramat     even mgv6 has changed very slightly by necessity at times
22:34 paramat     all added mapgens and their worlds are always supported
22:38 paramat     instead i think better to note any mapgen in an experimental state, which currently is none of them