Time  Nick           Message
00:03 sofar          4.0 is too old I bet
00:03 sofar          fdroid would be wrong?
03:43 kaeza          I just tested 5.0 on Android 4.4 and seems to work fine FWIW.
04:02 argyle77       I haven't had a chance to test on android yet.  Can't wait to give it a try.
04:14 sofar          yeah, I installed 5.0.0 apk from github and it's playing great
04:38 ANAND          I love the greatly improved controls
06:19 MinetestBot    paramat: Mar-08 13:19 UTC <IhrFussel> What I say is no nonsense at all... I said IF you acre about every feature request you should SHOW it more... but it's a fact that barely any feature request receives some feedback from core devs... you could at least add a comment stating your opinion or reaction but often all you do is adding the appropriate labels and that's it... that doesn't tell me as user that you actually care about
06:25 paramat        IhrFussel, barely any feature request doesn't receive feedback. i'm highly opinionated so i very often state my opinion (which then often annoys people). sometimes core devs just don't have anything to say or are very neutral, so don't comment. often core devs just don't have time, you can't blame us for that
06:26 paramat        and we do care, people just have to realise how little dev time we have
06:29 paramat        essentially: 'open-source' -> anyone on the internet can open a feature request. 'free' -> a small number of devs with extremely limited time for MT. inevitable result -> most feature requests go nowhere through no fault of our own
06:30 paramat        this is one of the problems with 'free open source' projects
06:35 paramat        around half of core dev work is mundane and not enjoyable, so we don't just work on what we want to, despite working in our free time when we should be enjoying ourselves. but you continue to accuse us of malice and incompetence
06:41 paramat        "I said IF you acre about every feature request you should SHOW it more" you didn't, you wrote: "there are many many open feature requests/bug reports that you somehow didn't care about till this day"
06:42 paramat        as i wrote, if you want more dev, pay us full time wages. you're getting a game for free
06:43 paramat        you're intent on being negative instead of calmly rational
06:44 paramat        that's your problem
06:49 paramat        p_gimeno "there's no 'cave1' or 'cave2' in a world just generated [...] It seems they are generated when you enter the world for the first time" yes, which is why you shouldn't manually edit map_meta.txt but use a mod to set the noise parameters, then it will be in effect right from the start
06:59 paramat        IhrFussel, you write: "either you work on this project with passion and because you want to help to improve the game or not" that's what all core devs do clearly, implying otherwise is offensive.
07:00 paramat        "I didn't even mention 'work more' I said maybe restructure your dev time" what you request requires more time, and 'restructuring your dev time' means other aspects of dev will suffer. you're writing ridiculous and offensive things
07:04 paramat        it's either other server admin or core devs, you're driven to irrationally criticise. the problem is you
07:07 paramat        you're denying the limited dev time fact because you can't argue against it
07:09 rubenwardy     paramat: you know he's not in this channel, right
07:15 paramat        yes =)
07:16 paramat        they'll see it or i'll link them to it
10:09 Guest31        Hey, just wanted to ask if someone could remove 2018-05-21, 2018-10-30 and 2018-10-31 from the online irc logs
10:13 Emerald2       Why?
10:14 Guest31        I connected with my real name and don't want it to show up when someone searches for my name
10:20 Emerald2       Hmm. Not even sure who's in charge of IRC logging.
10:21 Emerald2       Shara do you know?
10:26 Krock          sfan5, possibly?
11:18 Ingar          time to publish my logs
11:23 sfan5          Guest31: I can remove the logged join entries if you tell me the nickname, but not entire days
11:24 Guest31        Join entries are not enough
11:26 sfan5          the text too, I mean
13:47 JDCodeIt       Hi All - in a mod with optional dependency is the recommended way to check that a mod is available minetest.global_exists(...) versus get_modpath?
13:49 p_gimeno       global_exist will tell you if everything went well and the mod was loaded. I'm not sure if get_modpath is that reliable.
13:50 JDCodeIt       was thinking to update the wiki on that point - very little there about whether it returns a value if the mod name searched is part of the namespace
13:51 p_gimeno       on the other hand, nothing guarantees that a mod does register a global
13:52 JDCodeIt       true. I think the mod needs to recognize how the other developer prepared the globals, if any
13:53 JDCodeIt       but, get_modpath seems wrong on the surface because you can have a mod directory chock full of mods, but only a few selected for the game/world being played
13:54 p_gimeno       I don't know get_modpath that well. I don't know if it queries the currently loaded mods or the installed mod directory.
13:55 JDCodeIt       time to dig...
13:55 p_gimeno       If the former, then it's reliable. If the latter, then it's almost useless for this purpose.
13:58 JDCodeIt       get_modpath uses the mod manager object which appears to have a list of all mods (world, game, and normal) - so seems it would return a path even if the mod was not selected to be part of the world being played
13:59 JDCodeIt       its purpose seems to be - get me the directory so I can get access to a file over there (in my mod or someone else's)
14:00 p_gimeno       in that case, neither is reliable, therefore since you're depending on a mod, you need to be aware of what does that mod change, and check if that change is effective
14:02 JDCodeIt       you could get the intended loading of a mod by accessing the load_mod_<...>=true from world.mt or whatever structure it goes into
14:03 p_gimeno       I guess the mod author should know what part it depends on exactly, and should be able to check if it's there
14:09 JDCodeIt       nothing in rubewardy's modding book specifically on the topic of mods interacting, but could fit in the Intro to Clean Architecture
14:12 p_gimeno       well, depends.txt can specify that a mod, if it exists, should be loaded before yours; therefore if you know what effect of some other mod you need in yours, you can be sure that if it's installed and working, it will be already loaded, so you can check for that effect
14:13 JDCodeIt       yeah, but nothing tells you an optional mod didn't load, specifically - so then you need some reliable check - "is it present and loaded"
14:15 p_gimeno       my point is, if it failed to load, the effect you need from it won't be there, and checking for it will fail
14:15 p_gimeno       and vice versa
14:16 p_gimeno       e.g. if you depend on a mod that registers a node, you can check if that node already exists
14:17 JDCodeIt       OK, perhaps a concrete example then. TenPlus1/protector wants a optional dependency on TenPlus1/lucky_block - but the game I'm playing doesn't have lucky_block selected, but it is in the list of mods in my mod folder
14:17 p_gimeno       or if you depend on a mod that adds an API, you can check if the API is there
14:18 JDCodeIt       in this case, the optional code is going to call a global function that is exposed by luck_block - maybe that is the global_exists that should be checked?
14:18 MinetestBot    02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Update colors.txt 13cd0d1ad https://git.io/fhhzA (152019-03-09T14:16:28Z)
14:20 p_gimeno       ok, lucky_block registers a global, therefore in that particular case you can check for that global
14:20 p_gimeno       what I'm trying to say is that in the case that a mod does not register a global, you can check for some other effect of the mod that your mod relies on
14:21 JDCodeIt       ...so if minetest.global_exists("lucky_block:add_blocks") then ... <-- notice the meta_data accessor - would that work?
14:22 p_gimeno       if minetest.global_exists("lucky_block") then ...
14:23 p_gimeno       https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/lucky_block/src/master/init.lua#L2
14:24 JDCodeIt       yes, I see the global - so if any mod is going to expose an API - it is merely convention to use a global of the same name, but does not ensure that the specific function I want has been implemented in that version.
14:24 p_gimeno       right, but you can check for that function specifically
14:25 p_gimeno       e.g. if minetest.global_exists("lucky_block") and lucky_block.add_blocks then ...
14:25 p_gimeno       (which I believe is what you were after)
14:25 JDCodeIt       back to the lua question - with the ":" accessor will that exists in the global names?
14:26 p_gimeno       global_exists requires the name of a global variable, and "lucky_block:add_blocks" is not
14:26 p_gimeno       "lucky_block" is
14:27 p_gimeno       lucky_block is a global whose value is a table; add_blocks is a table field of a table which happens to be in a global, but it's not a global itself
14:27 JDCodeIt       right... _G("lucky_block:add_blocks") == nil is an invalid request or might always return true?
14:27 p_gimeno       I think it will always return false
14:28 p_gimeno       ah wait
14:28 p_gimeno       the comparison will return always true
14:28 p_gimeno       note the syntax is with [] instead of ()
14:29 JDCodeIt       sorry about that yes, [] not ()
14:31 p_gimeno       any table can have any string as key, including the globals - but only strings that correspond to an identifier can be accessed by the identifier. For example, _G["lucky_block"] is the same as _G.lucky_block
14:32 p_gimeno       however, _G["lucky_block:add_blocks"] has a string as index which doesn't correspond to an identifier, therefore it's not accessible with an identifier
14:33 JDCodeIt       so I think I should add a note the dev wiki that using get_modpath is not a good way to tell if a mod is loaded - I see so many examples of this in mods out there
14:33 p_gimeno       yes, definitely
14:34 p_gimeno       you also seem confused about the meaning of :
14:34 JDCodeIt       perhaps also something can be written in rubenwardy's book as lots of modders start there
14:34 JDCodeIt       please do tell - I'm not a lua expert
14:35 p_gimeno       : is a shortcut when calling (and ONLY calling - not accessing) functions which are fields of a table
14:35 MinetestBot    02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Improve color averaging and update colors.txt again 130fd3dc1 https://git.io/fhhgO (152019-03-09T14:33:38Z)
14:35 p_gimeno       mytable:myfunction(3) is a shortcut to: mytable.myfunction(mytable, 3)
14:36 p_gimeno       but you can't write e.g. x = mytable:myfunction; or if mytable:myfunction then ...
14:36 JDCodeIt       OK, so the lucky_block.add_blocks exists as a member in that table, but just happens to be a function, which you can call with the syntax lucky_block:add_blocks(...)
14:37 p_gimeno       when you call it with : then it's adding an implicit first parameter which is lucky_block itself
14:37 p_gimeno       you can still call it with .
14:37 p_gimeno       lucky_block:add_blocks(...) is equivalent to lucky_block.add_blocks(lucky_block, ...)
14:38 p_gimeno       the : is just a convenience for method calls
14:38 JDCodeIt       so inside the function when calling with : you can access the entire lucky_block, but in the other calling method you cannot?
14:39 p_gimeno       you can in both IF you pass the table as a parameter
14:39 JDCodeIt       right, but it's there implicitly with the ":" call
14:39 p_gimeno       exactly
14:40 p_gimeno       it is part of the language as a way to support method calls with implicit self
14:41 p_gimeno       similarly, in function definitions, function mytable:myfunc(x) is exactly the same as function mytable.myfunc(self, x)
14:42 JDCodeIt       back to the example to wrap it up... if minetest.global_exists("lucky_block.add_blocks") might be good practice to check before calling your mod's optional code in that case
14:42 p_gimeno       well, again, add_blocks is a field of a table, not a global in itself. The global is just lucky_block.
14:43 p_gimeno       So the right check is first, check if the global exists, and then if the field exist within the table: if minetest.global_exists("lucky_block") and lucky_block.add_blocks then ...
14:43 JDCodeIt       OK, got it - not specifically checking the field - though after confirming lucky_block global exists one could also then check if lucky_block.add_blocks ~= nil
14:44 p_gimeno       exactly
14:44 JDCodeIt       Thanks for the helpful discussion!
14:44 p_gimeno       my pleasure :)
14:46 p_gimeno       remember also that nil and false are the only values considered as false in Lua, therefore, since lucky_block.add_blocks isn't expected to ever be set to false, the above check works too
14:51 p_gimeno       I have a question myself. I've created a mod like this: https://paste.scratchbook.ch/view/9e4853b3 - why is the minimap still disabled?
14:57 JDCodeIt       The get_modpath page is updated with a reference to global_exists - https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.get_modpath
15:05 p_gimeno       never mind my question, it's working now o.O
17:45 DoyleChris     I have a problem with 5.0
17:45 DoyleChris     my character is in the ground
17:46 DoyleChris     character is to be 2 blocks high
17:46 DoyleChris     but it is only seeing it as 1 block high.
17:53 Krock          DoyleChris: update minetest_game
17:54 DoyleChris     update minetest_game how
17:56 Krock          nvm, you're on windows, so you probably installed all over from scratch
17:56 DoyleChris     it is i just downloaded it today
17:56 Krock          in that case, download the newest 3d_armor verison
17:56 Krock          in case you have that mod
17:56 DoyleChris     i do have 3darmor
17:57 Krock          https://github.com/stujones11/minetest-3d_armor/commits/master
17:57 Krock          most recent change was 4 days ago. grab the newest version there
18:20 DoyleChris     that fixed it
18:21 DoyleChris     now i just need to bring all my buildings from 4.17 to 5 map
18:24 Krock          take the old map. copypaste
18:26 CESTRayCRYSTAL ##JOIN minetest-ctf
22:02 botch          hello minetest irc :)