Time Nick Message 00:20 Xiong I'm confused about textures. Technic has two folders containing (example) technic_water_can.png and one is 16px square, the other 32. But ingame, I don't seem to see any node rendered with higher resolution. 00:21 Xiong The more baffling part is that both folders contain 16 and 32 images, several of each. 00:21 Xiong Can anyone illuminate this for my feeble eyes? 00:23 GreenDimond When Minetest searches for textures it will go to the textures folder first, and then expand its search from there if it cant find the desired file. So technic nodes will default to whatever it can find in the textures folder. 00:23 GreenDimond There are existing 32x textures in the normal folder because they are the only textures that exist 00:24 GreenDimond the rest of the 32x are optional and meant to replace the ones in the main folder should someone want to use them 00:27 Xiong In what way can I configure my client to seek and render 32 px square textures when available? 00:29 GreenDimond You dont 00:29 GreenDimond In technic's case you move the 32x textures to the texture folder to replace the old ones 00:29 GreenDimond its a mod thing 00:29 GreenDimond However 00:30 GreenDimond you could make a texture pack and put the 32x textures from technic in it 00:30 Xiong 7,99GreenDimond99,99, you're being helpful but I'm still stuck. Do you want to point me to a coherent explanation of textures? rubenwardy's guide doesn't seem to deal with it. I may be overlooking sth. 00:30 Xiong ?! 00:31 Xiong Wait, that may explain my next three questions too. 00:32 Xiong There are some 32s in the default folder because nobody drew a 16. There are some 16s in the 32 folder because nobody drew a 32. Yes? 00:33 entuland the way I understand them is that the game doesn't care about resolution, only about filename and folders (boiling to the same thing) 00:33 entuland so using a different texture is matter of either: replacing the image keeping the name in the code, changing the name in the code, having a texture pack override it somehow 00:35 entuland whatever the actual situation of specific resolutions for the specific mod is probably only known to that mod creators 00:35 Xiong 9,99entuland99,99, that's a bold statement. What if I define a 128 for my whatzis node? Will it render all that detail (as it grinds ever slowly)? 00:36 entuland UV mapping doesn't care about the size of the texture, conceptually - only 0..1 ranges whatever the size 00:36 entuland so, yes you can use variable sizes with just changing the texture 00:36 entuland unless you're doing some advanced stuff with texture, which I'm not referring to here, also because I'm not expert there 00:37 entuland stuff like combining them with texture modifiers probably, just wildguessing here 00:37 Xiong Well I know nothing about it so you're doing great. 00:37 entuland eheheh 00:38 entuland when you map a texture to a face in a program like blender, the actual position of vertices ontop of the texture assumes that the image is a logic unary surface, with coords going from zero to one, whatever floats values you want 00:39 Xiong So... the motivation, I assume, for shipping multiple texture files with the same name is to offer the user a tradeoff between detail and performance. That's sensible. But switching up or down is a hack job. 00:39 entuland the same thing should happen in minetest when using images in the tiles property 00:39 entuland not really, you can work around that 00:40 entuland you can have the size of the images as a variable in your code 00:40 entuland so that the param gets set in a conf file, and on loading, the name files get built according to that number 00:40 Xiong I mean the user making a choice. 00:40 entuland that's not something the single users can be allowed unless registering multiple nodes, I guess 00:41 entuland the decision about a node being rendered with a specific texture is either server-wide, or overridden by a texture pack, if I understand the situation properly 00:41 Xiong Right. Rendering resolution isn't a user setting. 00:42 Xiong You may have anticipated my next question. 00:43 Xiong If I have foobar mod installed locally and join a server game, my client will (?) still download foobar textures from server? 00:43 entuland I guess so, yes 00:43 entuland that should be the "media" loading stage on screen 00:44 entuland also because you're not really running your local foobar mod 00:44 Xiong Eek. I thought I was doing it wrong. 00:44 entuland you're just having the client do whatever the server is telling it to do 00:44 Xiong Oh yes. 00:45 Xiong But that's... absurdly inefficient. 00:45 entuland the code of the game and all the logic is only performed in the server, the client only does rendering and perhaps some look-ahead things to improve the smoothness 00:45 entuland again, assuming I am understanding that whole thing properly, not really an expert there, not by far 00:46 Xiong Um... I might argue with you overall... beyond textures. I've seen players with hacked clients fly. 00:47 entuland that's a different thing - the client still has to send data back to the server, and the hacked client is simply tricking the server to accept invalid scenarios somehow 00:48 Xiong But taking you at face value on textures... this is nutty. Even if I don't have the textures installed, why not cache them on the first download? 00:48 entuland oh maybe they're doing that already, and on relogging, only sanity checks / cache validation is performed, I don't really know 00:49 entuland I don't even know where that stuff goes when I'm playing on a remote server 00:49 Xiong Duno. I don't notice any speedup. 00:49 entuland I mean, where it gets stored on my PC or whether it gets stored to files _at all_ 00:50 entuland my contribute there only accounts to wildguessing, but I've got probably a medical condition about wildguessing and can't really do without :P 00:51 Xiong Well I'm sure the rendering engine must have a local cache, obviously... otherwise the download goes where? But it's consistent with my experience that this is all thrown out on next login. 00:52 entuland I know for sure that there is a setting somewhere that lets you save on your client whatever map chunks you're seeing, keeping it as a local copy of that "part of the world" you've seen 00:52 Xiong I need to learn more. 00:52 entuland everybody does :P 00:53 Xiong But I think this is double nuts. Rendering the scene is purely a client issue. 00:54 Xiong Dunno, I might be impaired and want to install some high-contrast textures. Nobody's business but my own. 00:54 entuland I think you can already do that with texture packs, but I can't be sure about that, never really bothered to mess with them 00:55 entuland just install some texture pack and enable it, then log into a world you already know, and you'll see if it works :P 00:55 Xiong I don't like an excessively modular approach, so I haven't tried texpacks either. 00:56 entuland after all the texture pack seems to be completely detached even from local worlds, so my wildguessing may be right there 00:56 entuland I love modular approach, that's the part that lets you easily override stuff in a case like this 00:56 entuland assuming I got that right, that is 00:57 entuland would you mind checking out a simple texture pack and see if my wildguess was right? 00:57 entuland my internet sucks right now and can't even play 00:57 entuland let alone downloading a texture pack 00:58 Xiong *sigh* I started out with the intention to fix one thing. After five years, technic extractor still looks identical to grinder. True for both LV and MV. 00:58 entuland well, if that's all you were after, a simple PR with a different texture to be merged in the original repo would have been the easiest way probably :P 01:00 entuland by the way, if I've seen that right, you could make your own texture pack and just override that one texture 01:00 entuland for your own very personal use 01:01 Xiong Let me rephrase. Modular construction is good up to a point; I believe in open architecture. Not sure I think core elements should be so implemented. But in any case, I personally want to play without dressing up. I reach for the default first... no reach at all. Perhaps I'm just lazy. 01:01 entuland does that mean you're not going to test out my theory about texture packs? 01:02 entuland :P 01:03 Xiong A simple PR to technic? Maybe not. If extractors and grinder share one texture after five years, somebody wants it that way. Besides, a code change is probably required, too. Dunno. Haha, didn't get that far. 01:04 entuland interesting: https://wiki.minetest.net/Creating_texture_packs 01:04 Xiong Ohoh certainly! Happy to serve. You've been helpful, please let me return. 01:06 Xiong "The [texture packs] forum you selected does not exist." 01:07 Xiong Let me try stuff, I'll be back. 01:10 entuland I managed to get on an online server, a lightweight one, after overriding one texture - it got applied to the rendering there, so... 01:10 entuland !next 01:10 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 01:10 entuland :P 01:14 Xiong Back. 01:15 Xiong I may not be able to test without some experiment. Unclear where texpacks go on Android. But... okay, you were successful. 01:15 Xiong https://wiki.minetest.net/Help:Installing_Texture_Packs 01:17 Xiong "If you create a server and want that the texture pack works not only for you,..." -- suggests texpacks local by default. 01:17 entuland wait, you're messing with minetest and IRC all on a tablet or the alike? 01:18 Xiong Phone. 01:18 entuland oh wow, even worse than a tablet. kudos, dude 01:18 Xiong People who fight with me don't have any idea 01:19 entuland anyway, see if you can get a hold of the position on your filesystem for all the default stuff (the mods and games and whatnot folders) 01:19 Xiong ... how stubborn I am. 01:19 entuland eheheh 01:19 entuland good for you 01:19 entuland if you find those folders, simply edit whatever texture you want to edit, and put it into /textures/pack/base 01:19 entuland that's all you need to do to apply that texture for yourself on all servers 01:20 Xiong I think it's likely I can get a texpack working. 01:20 entuland sorry, /textures/base/pack 01:20 entuland I'd test with a single texture there, just in case, will save you time in case that doesn't work - cause that's exactly what I did on desktop 01:21 Xiong The question being... will I still spend four minutes downloading on join? 01:21 entuland most likely yes 01:21 Xiong Well great thanks. 01:21 * Xiong eats 01:22 entuland :) 01:22 entuland the way the texture pack works is just to simply override whatever you have with whatever you happen to have in the base pack and in the enabled texture pack, and to do that it most likely simply downloads everything from the server first 01:23 entuland although, yes, it would be savvy to only download needed stuff, and not even all in advance, even at runtime during gameplay 01:23 entuland even just* at runtime 01:24 entuland just imagine servers with a crapload of models and textures that perhaps aren't being used in the world at all - I would make it so that just inventory textures get loaded upfront 01:25 entuland and never download a model or a texture if there isn't any need to do so, but I've been told that some of this aggressive media management could be a problem 01:25 entuland I've been told that irrlicht can load assets at runtime just fine, but is slow loading models 01:26 entuland that said, I'll call it a day, have fun Xiong 01:26 * entuland waves 01:27 AdirBlaz I read that this is the channel to ask for help with issues? 01:27 entuland this may be a good entry point to expose your case, AdirBlaz, sure, go ahead 01:27 entuland if it's something I can help you with quickly I'll gladly do so 01:28 AdirBlaz This may seem like something a little minor, I submitted a skin on the minetest.tv website and sort of was an idiot and didn't read any of the warnings about the skin submission. Could you possibly please help me out with this? The skin was submitted in a bit of haste. 01:29 entuland oh, nope, sorry, not only I can't help you with that directly (I'm just a regular player and a modder for my own fun) I also can't even tell if you can get help here at all about that specific website 01:30 AdirBlaz Ouch. Alrighty. 01:30 Emerald2 Who runs that website? 01:30 Emerald2 Hmm moment, let me check something. 01:31 AdirBlaz I believe some couple of people named Shara and Nathans21? 01:31 AdirBlaz That's what the website says anyway. 01:31 AdirBlaz IIRC the website stated that they can be contacted via IRC or forums, although I wasn't entirely sure which IRC that'd be. 01:31 entuland if that's true, they're in this very channel, shara is at least 01:31 AdirBlaz Nice. 01:32 entuland nathan seems to be as well 01:33 AdirBlaz I just hope they can help out. 01:33 entuland whether to wait for them to notice your pings or to try and send a PM to them is completely up to you there 01:33 entuland good luck in any case and have fun 01:33 * entuland out, peace! 01:34 Emerald2 I feel like I saw somebody from there on another chat so I'm checking. 01:40 MinetestBot hecks: Feb-10 20:20 UTC your PR is delayed due to lack of core dev time and feature freeze, not because of my review, i've had no objections to it since 25 sept. you're making an excessive fuss about it, it's normal for core devs to have issues with a contribution and other core devs will do this too, so please don't focus on me, please? =) 01:41 Emerald2 Hmm Imma ask some people if they know, AdirBlaz. 01:42 AdirBlaz Oh, alrighty 01:50 Emerald2 So are you trying to add a skin to use on their minetest server, Adir? 01:51 AdirBlaz I suppose that's the case. I submit a skin, but then made edits to the skin, and when I tried to submit that I ended up getting told I need to contact someone to help change it at all. 01:51 Emerald2 Oh I found their IRC channel. 01:51 Emerald2 It's #thepixelshadow 01:51 AdirBlaz Thanks for that 01:52 Emerald2 Haha and you need voice to talk. I'll try PMing one of them. 01:53 AdirBlaz I'm not entirely comfortable using my microphone lol 01:53 Emerald2 Ahh no not microphone. Voice is an IRC setting. 01:53 AdirBlaz Oh 01:53 Emerald2 The channel is moderated so people need to be given something to be able to write in there. 01:54 AdirBlaz I'm... not very used to IRC, as one can tell. 01:54 Emerald2 Yeah, it can be confusing if you don't use it very often. It's no problem. :) 01:56 AdirBlaz Wait, I found mods that allow players to change their character's skin offline. I suppose I didn't need to go through any of this. 01:57 AdirBlaz Oh well, thanks for the help anyway. 01:57 Emerald2 Not a problem. You know where their chat is now if you need further help. 03:29 paramat Xiong any idea why numbers are appearing around usernames you type? see http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2019-02-11#i_5493697 is it on logs only? 03:34 kaeza paramat: these are colors loggingbot is not correctly stripping. 03:35 paramat ok thanks 03:37 kaeza These also appear when MinetestBot reports a git commit. 03:40 kaeza Android controls seem much better than on 0.4.17. It's just missing the crosshair. 03:40 Wuzzy XD 03:40 Wuzzy Who needs a crosshair anyway? Pointless luxury. 03:41 kaeza I guess there's no chance in hell the PR will be in 5.0 03:41 kaeza Fingers have a tendency to hide what's behind them :P 03:42 kaeza Plus, ahem... Minecraft has such an option. 03:45 Emerald2 I was gone all weekend. Did Sveta end up finding out what they wanted to know about in game translation of items and such? 12:31 Xiong 7,99kaeza99,99, not sure why you want crosshairs on Android. Since you act where you touch, maybe far from center. 12:33 Xiong I wanted crosshairs myself, briefly, to "look at" stuff without touching it... read what text it puts up. 12:53 Xiong Well... FWIW... I got to the bottom of the grinder/extractor texture issue. There are distinct textures for each... they're just not loaded by default. So the naive user has no idea. 12:53 * Xiong sleeps 13:47 erstazi rubenwardy: hey, I want to help update the main wiki. email erstazi@gmail.com (: I am on the forum as well with same email 14:11 Calinou erstazi: hi, do you want the same username on the wiki as on IRC? 14:21 erstazi Calinou: yes please (: and thank you. I see a few things that can be cleaned up. I don't intend to mess with too much. Just cleaning up version numbers for mods on the wiki. Later on, there might be more but I would talk first about it 14:24 Calinou erstazi: done, check your email for the password. Note that the username is Erstazi because MediaWiki requires the first character to be uppercase 14:26 erstazi Calinou: done and thanks! 14:26 Calinou you're welcome :) 15:59 JDCodeIt As with I would also be willing to help update the dev wiki from the official lua_api.txt that is maintained in Github 16:05 rubenwardy I never said that 16:05 rubenwardy I guess that's your own words? 16:06 rubenwardy Calinou ^ 16:10 JDCodeIt Not sure what you mean - I was echoing erstazi that we are willing to help - erstazi reached out to you, but I did not yet see any answer if we could provide some help on the dev Wiki pages 16:12 Calinou JDCodeIt: PM me your email address and desired username (using /msg Calinou ) 16:14 p_gimeno JDCodeIt: when you put a nick in < > and at the start, it seems like you're quoting a previous text because that's how many IRC clients copy/paste nicks 16:14 JDCodeIt Ok, will avoid that - sorry for the confusion 16:20 JDCodeIt rubenwardy, regarding the Wiki pages, should we make any effort to make distinction as to version nuances or just move forward with the current version lua_api definitions in minetest-master? 18:43 p_gimeno what's the license on the minimal game assets? 18:44 VanessaE cc-by-sa I think 18:58 p_gimeno and whose copyright are they? 19:01 sfan5 doesn't the license file say so? 19:01 p_gimeno I haven't found it 19:02 p_gimeno ah sorry, I guess it's under "Everything not listed in here:" 19:40 GreenDimond Oi Wuzzy, are you lurking about? 19:40 Wuzzy hi 19:41 GreenDimond hbhunger is broke 19:41 Emerald2 Hey Wuzzy I heard you work on translation stuff? 19:41 GreenDimond Got my server stuck in a crash loop earlier from using food in a nodebreaker 19:41 Wuzzy MT version? hbhunger version? 19:41 Wuzzy hudbars version? 19:41 * Emerald2 queues up behind GD. :) 19:41 GreenDimond Yes, hudbars 19:41 GreenDimond 0.4.17.1 MT 19:42 GreenDimond But 19:42 Wuzzy error msg plz 19:42 GreenDimond I think the problem is pipeworks nodebreaker doesnt have is_fake_player 19:42 Wuzzy oh gosh, the fake player shit agian... :O 19:42 rubenwardy I hate fake players 19:42 GreenDimond Yeah 19:43 rubenwardy there needs to be an engine API for this 19:43 Wuzzy cant the nodebreaker at least make a nil check? 19:43 Wuzzy or whatever breaks due to fake players 19:43 GreenDimond Well all you need to do is minetest.get_player_by_name() 19:43 GreenDimond the problem is when the player is not online 19:43 Wuzzy hbhuneer does not support fake players :P 19:43 GreenDimond though idealy nodebreakers whouldnt be able to eat 19:43 Wuzzy esp. when fake players are also broken XD 19:44 GreenDimond not that you need it but heres the error https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/9N7nWxTQBm/ 19:44 GreenDimond now that I look closer 19:45 GreenDimond theres like 4 mods in that error 19:45 Wuzzy doesnt look like its hbhunger's fault 19:45 GreenDimond alright rubenwardy you're here too 19:45 Wuzzy it just seems to pass some broken value. garbage in, garbage out 19:45 rubenwardy que 19:45 Wuzzy Emerald2: I don't really work on translation stuff 19:45 Wuzzy or what did you want me to ask 19:45 Wuzzy oh this reminds me... 19:45 rubenwardy I'm always here, the joy of bouncers :) 19:45 GreenDimond Wuzzy: Thanks for your help anyway x) 19:46 rubenwardy on IRC, bouncers keep you in a channel not out of one 19:46 rubenwardy lol 19:46 GreenDimond rubenwardy: Awards is the one causing the crash; but whether its your code or mine I dont know yet. 19:46 * rubenwardy isn't sure if "bouncers" is an international term 19:46 Emerald2 Hmm I heard you might know something about it, Wuzzy. We had somebody wanting to know about inventory items getting translated. 19:46 rubenwardy heh 19:46 rubenwardy Awards doesn't add fake players 19:46 rubenwardy but it may be missing nil and fake player checks 19:47 GreenDimond I know 19:47 GreenDimond looks like a missing sanity check probably 19:48 GreenDimond Looks like adding a simple `or not itemstack` should do the trick 19:49 GreenDimond Wuzzy: Still may be worth figuring out another hack to not allow eating with node breakers 19:50 Wuzzy i dont want to deal with fakeplayers 19:50 Wuzzy are fake players at least documented? 19:50 GreenDimond Fair enough 19:51 Wuzzy they look like a hacky concept to implement a hacky feature 21:42 kaeza Xiong: it's useful to see the thing you're trying to break, especially small things like butterflies. 21:43 kaeza And mushrooms, and why not have the option? 21:43 kaeza Also, greetings. 21:46 kaeza ... And yet another 50M WebView update, nice... 22:24 swift110 sup 22:24 swift110 is there any chance that tutorial will be a part of minetest download 22:24 swift110 ? 23:56 zaphraud I got 5.0.0-dev working and I can't see in the dark with a gamma of 3 anymore. 23:56 GreenDimond That is correct 23:56 GreenDimond Gamma "cheating" was fixed 23:59 zaphraud The problem is that tree trunks don't cook into coals in this game so how does one make the first light?