Time  Nick        Message
00:01 Emerald2    I will try to find somebody who knows about the translations.
00:01 Sveta       don't worry about sleep too much, i don't mind waiting around for several days
00:02 Sveta       i also couldn't figure this out https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2815&p=38602 , would be handy to know - have a friend who wants this feature but there is not enough explanation in this post
00:05 josiah_wi_  It did have another error.
00:06 josiah_wi_  In member function ‘bool ModMetadata::load(const string&)’: error: ‘CharReaderBuilder’ is not a member of ‘Json’   Json::CharReaderBuilder builder;
01:33 josiah_wi_  I am using Debian 8 on this machine, but the forum only said that Debian 7 and back wouldn't work.
08:39 Emerald2    We had somebody earlier asking about translations.
08:40 Emerald2    Inventory items was the thing mentioned, but possibly are other translation issues too. (for anyone who wakes up and has some answers about that)
09:42 Soni        what's a graphic-token language?
12:31 jluc        faire un éditorial par rubrique, c'est aussi faire des choix et hiérarchiser l'info
12:32 jluc        c'est d'ailleurs ça qui est recherché
12:33 jluc        pas choisir ça améne à des articles comme celui introductif aux outils ecommerce
12:33 jluc        je me sers pas de ces outils donc je sais pas trop leurs états
12:34 jluc        mais comme ça j'aurais tendance à croire
12:34 jluc        qu'à part la suite autour de bank et tout ce qui va avec, les autres bougent pas et sont pas recommandés
12:35 jluc        enfin, qu'il faudrait pas les recommander
12:36 jluc        sans être certain non plus...
12:36 jluc        OUps wrong chen
18:33 patrik      hi
18:33 rubenwardy  o/
18:41 Emerald2    Hey rubenwardy
18:41 rubenwardy  \o
18:42 Emerald2    Sveta there has some questions about translation, perhaps you can help?
19:08 MinetestBot 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Dye: Remove type="shapeless" from single-item recipes 13ad6c2cf https://git.io/fh91F (152019-02-06T19:07:48Z)
19:16 rubenwardy  Emerald2: can't help with that, sorry
19:16 Emerald2    Aww. I was hoping you'd know something about that.
19:17 rubenwardy  ohhh, by I do they mean inventory?
19:17 rubenwardy  the best way to contribute now is to work out how it actually works
19:17 Emerald2    Inventory was mentioned but there may be other concerns as well.
19:18 rubenwardy  I don't know how it works, so I can't write a chapter on doing it
19:18 rubenwardy  it's the sort of thing that everyone needs to do
19:18 rubenwardy  look at Android for example
19:18 Soni        what's a graphic-token language?
19:18 rubenwardy  it's harder to hard code text in a specific language than it is to make it translatable
19:18 rubenwardy  so most things are translatable
19:18 rubenwardy  Soni: I have no idea, google it
19:19 Emerald2    <Sveta> hello :) it does not look like the list of items (available from 'i') is internationalized, is it? how do i participate?
19:19 Emerald2    <Emerald2> Hi Sveta. Are you talking about translation, or something else?
19:19 Emerald2    <Sveta> yes, about translation
19:19 Soni        Xiong: what's a graphic-token language?
19:19 Emerald2    ^Persons actual words for clarification. :)
19:19 rubenwardy  hmm
19:34 Soni        how does someone dump a term like that on here and then never comes back :<
19:41 VanessaE    Soni: Scratch.
19:41 VanessaE    https://www.makeblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/scratch1.png
19:41 VanessaE    I'd call that a graphical token language
19:41 rubenwardy  is that 1.0?
19:41 VanessaE    idk, just googled.
19:41 rubenwardy  lol
19:41 Soni        I thought APL was a graphical-token language?
19:42 Soni        idk I asked about nonverbal programming languages
19:42 Soni        I've no idea
19:42 VanessaE    there's no such thing as far as I Know
19:43 VanessaE    I wouldn't even put APL in that category
19:43 VanessaE    as its just using common mathematical symbols instead of spelling things out.
19:44 Soni        I believe there is such thing
19:44 Soni        or could be if I wrote it
19:44 Soni        but if I'm asking for a non-verbal programming language there's probably a reason for it xD
19:45 Soni        :(
19:45 VanessaE    don't.
19:45 Soni        don't what?
19:46 VanessaE    don't bother creating such a thing.  there are plenty of languages already, ranging from any-idiot-can-learn to 30-year-veteran-will-struggle.  it's not worth the effort.
19:47 Soni        seriously I'm only able to talk right now because I drank a bunch of coffee earlier today
19:47 VanessaE    when I was growing up, we had BASIC, and every kid with a C64, Apple, Atari, could program.
19:47 VanessaE    today, there's Lua at least, idk what else is that easy
19:47 Soni        python's actually easier than lua :p
19:48 VanessaE    depends on your metal organization.
19:48 VanessaE    mental*
19:48 VanessaE    I can do Lua, but not Python.
19:48 VanessaE    but then don't ask me to program in C/C++
19:48 Soni        (I gave up on it because HTML, but also given what I was doing lua would definitely have been harder)
19:48 VanessaE    (I can muddle my way through simple stuff, but not anything truly useful)
19:48 rubenwardy  Lua is simpler, but Python is used a lot more in education and has more support
19:49 Soni        python's pretty good for processing HTML forms
19:49 Soni        (UA-side, not server-side)
19:49 VanessaE    you mean some library is :P
19:49 Soni        no
19:49 rubenwardy  I'd like see Python use with Minetest, simply for the educational aspect
19:49 Soni        I mean it has good libs for parsing the HTML tree
19:49 rubenwardy  like, in the MT ecosystem
19:49 Soni        but beyond that, you're on your own
19:50 Soni        I managed to get as far as extracting the forms and associated form elements out of the tree
19:50 Soni        then I kinda gave up on it
19:50 Soni        and it "only" took me 3 days to do that
19:50 Soni        I don't wanna think about how long that'd take me in lua but it'd be a lot longer
19:51 Soni        still hate python's syntax
19:51 Soni        but it was the best tool for the job
19:52 Soni        huh, guake can split terminals now
19:53 Soni        this would've been useful to know yesterday
19:55 Soni        but anyway
19:55 Soni        VanessaE: there are plenty of "verbal" languages around
19:56 Soni        I don't really know of any practical "non-verbal" language tho
19:56 VanessaE    just.  don't reinvent the wheel.  find a language that does the job.  maybe write a library that others can benefit from.
19:56 Soni        I know plenty of "non-verbal" languages but none of them are what I'd call "practical"
19:56 VanessaE    you want non-verbal, there's brainfuck and whitespace
19:57 VanessaE    there's nothing more non-verbal than those two.
19:57 Soni        (and yes, I do enjoy using them very much, but because they're not exactly practical it ends up making them less-than-useful)
19:58 Soni        VanessaE: both of those are APL-like in a way
19:58 Soni        and scratch is a little too... verbal. it relies heavily on words as it's mostly designed as a learning tool.
19:59 VanessaE    exactly my point.  don't give the drooling morons out there an "in".  coding should be left to people who are willing to *learn*
20:02 Soni        <VanessaE> [...]  coding should be left to people who are willing to *learn*
20:02 Soni        so you're saying I'm not?
20:02 Soni        you're saying NVPLs are easy?
20:02 Soni        you're saying you're an ableist?
20:03 Soni        okay I shouldn't be so hard on you, sorry
20:03 VanessaE    no.
20:04 Soni        a quick story: so I drank coffee today, right? well, I'm kinda touching phpBB 2 a little. and I can't really deal with php all that well, but the coffee helps.
20:04 VanessaE    I'm saying if you were to make such a programming environment, you're enabling others to get in without learning.
20:04 VanessaE    there are enough idiots out there in normal population, we don't need 'em in the coding world, too.
20:05 Soni        however, coffee comes with a few side effects: it makes me wanna poop, it makes me unable to sleep, and it makes me constantly hungry which is generally distracting when working with php
20:05 VanessaE    tl;dr if I could learn BASIC at 11 years old, as did so many of my peers, then clearly a graphical-token language is NOT needed.
20:05 Soni        (altho I'm getting through it, slowly)
20:06 Soni        VanessaE: if someone in a wheelchair can drag themselves and the wheelcahir up a flight of stairs, then clearly a ramp is NOT needed?
20:07 VanessaE    not the same thing.
20:07 Soni        yes, it is.
20:07 VanessaE    bullshti.
20:07 VanessaE    bullshit.
20:07 VanessaE    enabling stupidity is not the same thing as helping get around a disability
20:07 Soni        if someone can walk, then they don't need a wheelchair?
20:08 Soni        what if walking is painful for them?
20:08 VanessaE    in fact, they do not - if they can walk more than a certain distance without too much pain or risk of falling (I think the legal cutoff is 20 feet)
20:08 Soni        so they shouldn't be allowed a wheelchair?
20:08 VanessaE    but that's still not the same thing.
20:09 VanessaE    generally, stupidity is not inherent.  it's the result of bad parenting and lack of good schooling.
20:09 VanessaE    a disability is not the same thing
20:09 VanessaE    I should know.
20:09 VanessaE    I am disabled.
20:10 VanessaE    as was my husband for 15 odd years until he died.
20:10 Soni        so how come you can be so damn ableist?!
20:10 * VanessaE  growls.
20:11 VanessaE    because I remember some of the legal requirements I had to deal with during my disability hearing and later when *I* was in a wheelchair.
20:11 Soni        are developmental disabilities not in your vocabulary?
20:11 VanessaE    I eventually got out of said chair, pain and fall risk be damned.
20:11 VanessaE    no one but you is trying to shoehorn disability into a discussion about coding.
20:11 VanessaE    so just fucking stop it.
20:12 Soni        because *it is a discussion about accessibility in coding*
20:12 VanessaE    NO
20:12 Soni        it has *always* been one
20:12 Soni        at least for me
20:12 VanessaE    this is NOT accessibility.
20:12 Soni        it's what this has always been about
20:12 Soni        it's what I've been fighting for for like 5 years now wait what
20:13 Soni        NVM IT'S BEEN ALMOST 7 YEARS
20:13 VanessaE    if you're too dumb to learn Lua or something, you're too dumb to be a coder, period -- and 95% chance you're that dumb because you had bad parenting, lack of schooling, and are today unwilling to put in the hours to learn.
20:13 Soni        VanessaE: you're a classist ableist
20:14 VanessaE    I knew a guy years ago who was so disabled he could only type with an implement attached to his head.   nice guy though, smart enough to be a coder if his apparatus could allow it.
20:14 Soni        https://github.com/SoniEx2/Stuff/tree/master/lua
20:15 VanessaE    (I don't know whatever became of him, this was almost 30 years ago)
20:15 rubenwardy  VanessaE: that's gate keeping
20:15 VanessaE    if you can't figure that print("foo") will display the word "foo" somewhere, and are unwilling to learn what it means, you should not be coding.
20:16 VanessaE    rubenwardy: it's about being willing to *learn*
20:16 Soni        oh and you're an elitist
20:16 VanessaE    "gatekeeping" would imply not even allowing access to learning materials.
20:16 VanessaE    fuck off, Soni .
20:16 Soni        am I wrong?
20:16 rubenwardy  I learned programming using scratch
20:16 VanessaE    dead wrong.
20:16 rubenwardy  Scratch, visual basic, and blitz basic
20:16 rubenwardy  But mostly scratch
20:16 VanessaE    rubenwardy: those are all still very much word-base languages
20:17 VanessaE    based*
20:17 Soni        I learned programming by reverse engineering and ripping off C++ (or was it C#) programs into javascript
20:17 rubenwardy  I thought this conversation was against scratch?
20:17 VanessaE    rubenwardy: no.
20:17 Soni        it literally doesn't matter
20:18 VanessaE    rubenwardy: it's against the concept of a graphical, purely symbolic language of some kind that would require little intelligence and time spent learning even the basics of program flow.
20:18 Soni        (btw: no, I wouldn't recommend it. unless you have a *lot* of time on your hands and are good with math and logic)
20:19 VanessaE    rubenwardy: as in something like APL taken to its logical extreme, think all emoji to describe a series of events.
20:19 Soni        VanessaE: I think the word you're looking for is "AI" or "ML"
20:19 Soni        not "graphical bash environment"
20:19 VanessaE    no, it is not.
20:20 VanessaE    you ask for a graphical, symbolic language, a page full of emoji is what comes to mind.
20:20 Soni        I don't care what you think you know but I can assure you, you don't know
20:20 VanessaE    and you do?
20:20 Soni        yes
20:20 fwhcat      Soni, hahaha
20:21 Soni        and I didn't ask for a graphical, symbolic language
20:21 VanessaE    [02-06 14:18] <Soni> what's a graphic-token language?
20:21 Soni        ask Xiong
20:21 Soni        I didn't *ask for* a graphic-token language
20:22 Soni        I asked what the hell was Xiong saying
20:22 Soni        or whoever it was
20:22 fwhcat      graphical symbolic language doesn't exist. Because behind any graphic you will see on screen, there is code, and there is a very high probability that the symbols will match words or expressions even if you don't see it.
20:22 Soni        really, you've just proven yourself to be ableist, classist, and elitist, and you can't read
20:23 VanessaE    ok, so he did.  the point is the same -- such a thing probably does not exist and sure as fuck never should, because it would encourage the drooling idiot who CAN learn but doesn't WANT to, to get into "programming", if you can call it that.  If you think code quality these days is shit, imagine how much worse it can gety.
20:23 VanessaE    -y
20:23 VanessaE    ok, I've had enough
20:24 sfan5       from the point where SoniEX joined a few days ago I was wondering why people were feeding the troll
20:24 VanessaE    sfan5: he's been here off and on for years/.
20:25 VanessaE    only just recently showed back up.
21:56 Fusl        tfw `Sun, 14 Jan 2018` was the last time i was in here. hello everyone
21:57 entuland    welcome back Fusl
23:51 nri         hi
23:52 Emerald2    Hi nri.
23:54 nri         hey
23:54 nri         What  server you play on?
23:55 Emerald2    It has varied over the years. I haven't been playing survival servers recently (and I don't usually do creative).
23:55 Emerald2    So aside from making puzzle boxes on 'inside the box', I haven't been playing that much minetest.
23:55 Emerald2    Well also the server I *was* playing on went down.
23:55 nri         oh ok
23:57 Emerald2    Were you wanting some server recommendations?
23:58 nri         no i play Redcat
23:59 Emerald2    I've never been to Redcat, I don't think.
23:59 nri         i just wanted to see what the irc was
23:59 nri         What do you do on the irc?