Time Nick Message 00:46 DoyleChris is there a way to enable a mod while server is running 00:55 kaeza Unless things changed since a year ago, nope. 01:14 Ruslan1 Hi Xiong 03:38 Xiong Ruslan1 We just keep missing each other. 03:39 Xiong Who like kalite torches? 04:08 Ruslan1 Xiong: why do you asking to anyone 04:09 Ruslan1 Xiong: no asking to anyone 04:10 Ruslan1 Xiong: read here https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules 04:11 Ruslan1 Xiong: Don’t ask if you can ask questions, just ask 04:22 Xiong Erk? 04:22 Xiong Sorry. I don't see I asked to ask... I just asked. 04:23 Xiong Erm... don't have another question behind that one, either. 04:25 Xiong Ruslan1 have you used kalite torches? Do you like them... or perhaps not? 04:26 Ruslan1 Don’t ask 04:26 Ruslan1 Or I will tell celeron55 04:26 Xiong ?? Don't ask any questions. 04:26 Ruslan1 Yes 04:27 Xiong You're misreading "don't ask to ask". 04:28 Ruslan1 Look here https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules 04:31 Xiong I've read that a dozen times. Be specific. 04:31 Ruslan1 Xiong: if you broke the rules then I will tell celeron55 04:33 Xiong I mean... sorry. Look, I think you're pulling my leg. I don't know why. But I'm going to drop this with you... at least until you start to crystallize your objection. 04:39 Ruslan1 I’m not doing that 04:43 Ruslan1 Hi swift110 04:57 Ruslan1 !tell celeron55 Xiong did ask and I told him not to 04:57 MinetestBot Ruslan1: yeah, yeah 07:04 Xiong What are these v7 tunnels? Never seen anything I recognize. 10:55 Ruslan1 celeron55 10:56 Ruslan1 !help 10:56 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md 10:57 Ruslan1 !devoice Ruslan1 10:57 Ruslan1 !voice Ruslan1 11:00 Ruslan1 !kick Ruslan1 11:00 Ruslan1 Hi Fixer 11:02 Ruslan1 Fixer: hi 11:05 Ruslan1 Hi calcul0n 11:05 sfan5 you don't need to greet everyone that joins and it doesn't make sense to so 11:06 Ruslan1 Ok sfan5 11:07 Ruslan1 sfan5: do you know Xiong what he did 11:07 sfan5 what 11:08 calcul0n hi 11:08 Ruslan1 So Xiong did ask to anyone and I told him not to 12:02 fossrox hi everyone! Is it possible to configure somehow a desktop minetest version to make the player move like on android device where he doesn't need to press jump in order to go up in front of a 1m high node? 12:04 ANAND fossrox: Add `autojump = true` to minetest.conf 12:04 fossrox ANAND: thank you! :D 12:04 ANAND :) 14:18 MinetestBot 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove incorrect feature flag (#8086) 1311b550e https://git.io/fhEb2 (152019-01-19T14:17:05Z) 14:55 ceda hi, does there exist a mod which opens a socket / web server over which I can send commands that will be eval'd so that I can connect to minetest externally from other languages. 15:07 calcul0n ceda, maybe you can use this as an example : https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_robot/tree/master/scripts/http 15:07 calcul0n it's experimental though, and afaik you need basic_robot to use it 15:16 ceda calcul0n: it looks like that makes http calls. that is not what I want. 15:16 ceda I need the mod to listen for requests and eval them 15:17 rubenwardy it's a lot easier to have a bridge server 15:20 ceda rubenwardy: what is a bridge server? 15:25 rubenwardy having a HTTP server which both the language and MT connect to, to communicate 15:26 rubenwardy you don't need to worry about MT freezing then 15:26 rubenwardy as MT has a HTTP API which can only be async 15:26 rubenwardy you can also have multiple servers on one message server 15:26 rubenwardy bridge is the wrong word, message server is probably better 15:28 ceda oh cool 15:28 ceda I need to look into the http api 15:30 rubenwardy I'd like to get around to make a standard API for this kind of thing 15:56 ceda rubenwardy: I couldn't find the http api 15:56 ceda can you link to it? 15:57 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4482 16:05 Krock uhm.. for translations in-game? use client-side translation files (5.0-dev feature) 16:06 rubenwardy I think they mean programming languages 16:14 Krock ah. API bridge 17:40 paramat lol Ruslan1 http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2019-01-19#i_5481890 03:39 to 11:08. please stop this silly behaviour, Xiong has done nothing wrong 17:42 paramat the mgv7 'tunnels' are the caves that intersect the surface 18:03 paramat Ruslan1 it's fine for people to ask questions when the channel is quiet, to be seen and replied to later, that's partly what the channel is for 18:39 Ruslan1 Xiong: you can ask if you want to 18:47 MinetestBot 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest: Advanced settings noiseparams: No tailing comma for empty flags 139512c29 https://git.io/fhuUq (152019-01-19T18:37:19Z) 18:47 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Advanced settings noiseparams: Remove '}' left in .conf 1380b9015 https://git.io/fhuUm (152019-01-19T18:31:41Z) 20:16 IhrFussel Ruslan1, what you didn't understand is that "ask to ask" means SOME questions like "hey i have a question" or "can I ask you a question" << THOSE questions are not wanted 20:17 IhrFussel You can of course ask questions at ANY time 20:17 Krock can I not ask whether I'm not allowed to not ask questions? 20:17 IhrFussel Not sure why paramat said you can only ask them when it's quiet, that is incorrect and would censor the chat way too much 20:18 IhrFussel Krock, ask paramat there :P 20:19 IhrFussel Or celeron55 or whoever made the rules 21:00 Xiong Thanks paramat on both counts. I'll stick to the straight cut shafts I dig myself, though. 21:01 Xiong Krock it's not against the rules for you to not ask. But it is strictly forbidden for you not to ask if you can refrain from asking. 21:02 Krock askactly 21:17 Ruslan1 Ok IhrFussel I got it 21:18 Ruslan1 Xiong I’m sorry 21:47 paramat "Not sure why paramat said you can only ask them when it's quiet" nah i never wrote that =) 22:29 IhrFussel Let me recheck 22:30 Guest15929 any one elses been kicked from a server for no reason 22:31 Guest15929 ive just tried to log on to the server to find ive been kicked 22:31 sfan5 what does it say? 22:33 Guest15929 acess denied reason yo are banned for 2 hours ive not been on atall today so i dont understand 22:33 IhrFussel Okay looks like the 3 "," in his message made it sound confusing to me 22:34 IhrFussel Nobody but the server staff can help you 22:34 Guest15929 how do i contact them 22:34 IhrFussel So check if they have discord/IRC or a thread in the forum (forum.minetest.net) 22:47 IhrFussel I personally think every server on the list should have a mandatory way to contact the server owner ... you know in case of security vulnerabilities, legal actions etc 22:48 IhrFussel An email would be enough really 22:49 IhrFussel If you want to be publicly reachable you must take responsibility 22:50 rubenwardy I partially agree, although think that this could/should be kept private 22:50 rubenwardy and then emails proxied like with domain name privacy 22:54 IhrFussel You mean the server owner tells core devs openly their email and then core devs "obfuscate" it and link that "obfuscated" email to the server where everybody can contact them? 22:55 IhrFussel Or are you talking about something that each machine needs to setup on its own? That would cause chaos...it should be something centralized 22:55 IhrFussel For example send server request via MT website which doesn't tell the actual email 22:56 IhrFussel "server request" refers to the message from the user who wants to contact owner X 22:57 rubenwardy I mean that the emails for each server aren't listed 22:57 rubenwardy although idk 22:58 rubenwardy if you make something like this mandatory, some people won't want to do it 22:58 IhrFussel They don't need to be visible in the list... it would be enough to store them somewhere privately/encrypted and offer a web interface ... that is how DENIC does the whois now btw 22:58 rubenwardy ah true 22:58 rubenwardy that's roughly what I meant, but better 22:59 Shara And then people use throw-away email addresses to dodge it if they don't want real ones known anyway 22:59 rubenwardy yeah 23:00 IhrFussel Well people also could enter a valid address but never/rarely check it... if we think like that no solution makes sense 23:00 Shara That was really my point. 23:00 IhrFussel Unless we found a method to "track" the activity which is a big no-no 23:00 Shara Besides, you know, I don't want to get emails from such a thing. 23:01 Shara It should be my choice how people can contact me. 23:01 IhrFussel But right now anybody can create any server and add it to the list... and as long as core devs are not convinced something illegal/otherwise bad happens there nothing can be done about it 23:01 Shara Servers with unreachable owners are likely to end up as dead servers sooner or later 23:01 Shara Yea, of course there is. 23:02 Shara They can then be removed from the list once a concern is raised 23:02 IhrFussel Yes but depending on actual evidence this might take some time 23:02 rubenwardy I also wouldn't want to be contacted like that by players 23:03 Shara Fussel, are there any real cases of this being a problem? 23:03 rubenwardy such a thing is more useful for sending alerts like "Worldedit GUI contains a remote execution vulnerability, please update" 23:03 Shara rubenwardy: agreed, but it should still be opt-in, not something mandatory 23:04 IhrFussel There was once a server run by a "supposed" childlover ... a former MOD of mine told me about it... the server owner often joined child roleplay and sometimes made them weird offers 23:04 Shara "supposed" 23:04 Shara Did anyone try to go to the devs and ask for it to be investigated or removed from the list? 23:05 IhrFussel I trust my MODs ... they told me that he did it rather smart...whatever that means 23:05 Shara And if the server owner is doing things like that, or letting someone who does that run their server, emailing them is unlikely to hep very much. 23:05 Shara help* 23:06 IhrFussel Well... if the child doesn't know how to make a screenshot (and many don't) there is not much proof...chat is not logged client side 23:06 Shara But having a mandatory email address doesn't help 23:06 Shara We say "please stop this", they reply "sure, it's not happening"... then they hide it better? 23:07 Shara If something is going on, communication won't help 23:07 Shara The server just needs to be removed, and maybe the authorities even contacted depending on what's going on there 23:08 Shara (and by removed I mean from the public list. You can't expect the devs to be able to do more than that) 23:09 IhrFussel And maybe people should be warned in the forum...or somewhere public 23:09 Shara But you'd want that without proof? 23:10 IhrFussel No...if there is proof... core devs cannot just remove a server without proof either...that would be wrong 23:10 Shara So we're back to mandatory emails not helping... 23:11 IhrFussel Well that idea was more targeting things like critical bugs/exploits, other vulnerabilities or to report bad behaving players without the owner being in the game for quite some time 23:12 IhrFussel You know there are servers where owners only check maybe 1 or 2 times per week if everything still runs 23:12 Shara That should again be opt-in though 23:13 IhrFussel Remember the WE exploit? Usually server owners should be informed as soon as possible...but how would that be possible if they neither have a forum accoun/IRC/discord etc? An email could very well help there cause nearly anybody got one 23:14 Shara That doesn't change that it would have to be opt-in. 23:14 Shara You cannot force people to recieve emails 23:15 IhrFussel Well I guess only core devs would know it then by default... and a server owners needs t kinda "trust" the devs of the game server they run 23:15 IhrFussel to* 23:16 IhrFussel It could be optional to let regular users contact them 23:16 Shara I guess you don't understand what opt-in means 23:16 * Shara goes back to more constructive things before this gets stuck in even more of a loop 23:17 IhrFussel It would make no sense to make this opt-in cause it should be used to push an important message to their inbox in case of something critical 23:17 IhrFussel That is also how hosters do it...they don't ask you (AFAIK) if you want to receive en email when something is wrong with your server 23:18 IhrFussel an* 23:18 Shara Paid for service involving a contract you have to enter into is different from inclusion on a server list 23:19 Xiong I am the captain of my ship... the final word. I'm with Shara on this. Nothing can be forced on me. It's not a matter of morality. Do what you will, I will evade or subvert anything mandatory. 23:20 Shara Also a lot of countries have various anti-spam laws.. and if you say "I don't want emails from this" and then you force them on people... guess what you're violating? 23:20 Shara But maybe you want to add a legally binding contract needed to get your server on the public list? 23:20 Xiong If you ask nicely I may cooperate. But I'll fight something I otherwise approve of, just because you're shoving me. 23:21 Shara Yes, what Xiong. Ask and don't force (aka "opt-in") 23:21 Shara what Xiong said* 23:21 Xiong Haha if you force a contract on me, I'll break it. 23:23 IhrFussel Xiong, okay it's your ship...and if an exploit turns it into a spam bot that sends lots of malicious emails to people all over the world withut any way of someone contacting you about it you will soon find yourself in court 23:23 Xiong Whatever you want me to do.... anywhere, anytime... you must persuade. Bribe, appeal to reason, make it a joke I enjoy. But I resist all attempts to compel my hand.... and I mean that in the broadest possible way. 23:24 Shara Fussel: that doesn't even make sense. MT servers don't by default have anything to do with email. 23:24 Xiong And yes IhrFussel then I will have run my ship aground. I will have done it, me. I'll pay the price l've earned. 23:26 Xiong Let me guess... with such a handle... German? Netherlander? I'm a USAian. 23:29 Xiong We don't cotton to enforced social responsibility. I expect about 80% of my countrymen think it a constitutional right to get stinking drunk, shamble through town singing loudly and off key, puke in the street, and pass out with the motor running. 23:31 Xiong Hell, after an effort lasting my whole life, I think there's still a significant fraction of us who believe... as in believe in their gods... they should be permitted to drive while drinking beer and throw the empties out the window. This is America. 23:33 IhrFussel Huh? If you manage to take over the machine I'm sure you can also send emails and do worse things 23:33 Shara Which has nothing to do with MT. 23:34 Xiong I think good, prosocial conduct is a moral imperative weighing on every action of every person... individually. The more the state attempts to impose that good conduct on the people, the weaker our individual moral compasses are weakened. 23:34 Shara MT does not ask for emails. MT does not send emails. Unless for some reason you personally have decided to request emails from players, there is no way that's going to touch anyone connected to MT. You can't expect the MT team to detect it or moderate it. 23:35 Xiong So... if I won't take it from Uncle Sam... what chance have you got? 23:43 paramat ugh. servers should be free to have poor communication, and more generally, be free to be poorly administered. anything 'mandatory' reduces server freedom, and therefore your own freedom to run your server as you wish. dictating how other servers should be run (as you do often) is the same as someone else dictating how you should run your server, you wouldn't like that 23:45 Xiong Thx paramat. 23:46 IhrFussel In this case I want to suggest more security... and people who run such poorly administered servers don't deserve any players IMO ... but unfortunately some of those are still visited fairly frequently 23:47 Xiong That said, it would be great to build a contact feature into mt. Needn't be email. Just any method of sending messages. 23:47 rubenwardy someone's just salty that they don't get all the players 23:47 IhrFussel my point was having a direct way of telling them that smething is wrong with their servers...the other alternative would be to try to shutdown those servers remotely to prevent any further damage (which was done in the past but highly controversial) 23:47 Xiong Up to the operator to use the feature. 23:47 paramat (however, drinking and driving endangers lives, poor example) 23:48 IhrFussel Huh? Player count is pretty much random in MT I already explained this fact many times 23:48 Shara Fussel: you're basically saying "do it my way or you have to illegally hack people". Just... what? 23:48 rubenwardy CTF has the same player count day after day 23:48 Xiong rubenwardy there's a real issue. I find the server list all but useless because it doesn't tell me what I want to know. 23:49 rubenwardy what do you want to know? 23:49 Shara I'd love filters :) 23:49 IhrFussel That might be because your server is the only really known CTF server that is permanently maintained 23:49 rubenwardy I'd quite like support for thumbnails and the game name, personally 23:49 rubenwardy oh and filters 23:49 rubenwardy yeah probably, CTF tends to be an edge case 23:50 paramat a way to contact server admin is a good idea of course, just don't try to enforce it 23:50 Xiong Well, I want at least a paragraph of explanation from the op. I want player ratings. I want more informative classifications. 23:50 Shara Player ratings wouldn't be helpful 23:50 IhrFussel Creative and survival servers are by default (only if you use MTG or only use known "stock" mods that run on many servers) very similar 23:50 Shara Odds are the only ones who would comment would be highly biased 23:51 Shara "0/10 because admin is mean and banned me" or "10/10, it's great and I'm a moderator" 23:51 Xiong A straight list may be too bulky. A searchable, filterable database better. 23:51 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/kVil5.png 23:52 Shara Xiong: More ways to classify servers would be nice though. 23:52 Xiong Shara, you csn normalize that out. Also any intelligent rating system weights ratings by reputation of the rater. 23:52 Shara Xiong: maybe my issue is that I would not expect an intelligent one :) 23:52 sfan5 the server list is pretty small, trying to sort it with ratings wouldn't be very helpful 23:52 sfan5 IMO 23:53 Shara I'd rather people decide if my servers are any good based on checking them and spending some time there 23:53 Shara Because not all players want the same thing anyway 23:53 Out`Of`Control indeed 23:53 Xiong Small to you. More thsn three choices is a lot for me. 23:54 Xiong Perhaps in mt, a good rating system weights by time spent by the rater. 23:55 Shara Hmm, could be a nice measure, but no real way to track that currently 23:55 Xiong Sorry I just exhausted myself. 23:56 Shara Ratings would likely need all kinds of alaborate thigns changed to be of any use, and I doubt it's worth it. 23:56 Shara Filters though... that'd be good. 23:56 IhrFussel Mobile players don't have that choice Shara ... most apps now force you to stay on server x until you unlock server y ... and you have to stay on server y until you unlock server z ... this is the hard reality nowadays 23:57 Shara Fussel, apps that MT has no control over 23:57 Shara And rating systems also would not help them 23:57 Shara Because.. as you say, they can't choose 23:57 IhrFussel But it explains perfectly why sometimes a server, that usually only gets very few players, is full of them...and another time is dead again 23:58 IhrFussel That is why I said the player count is to some extent random 23:59 IhrFussel Cause 3rd-party-apps implement arbitrary currency systems and neither the MT devs nor server owners have any say over that 23:59 paramat "the other alternative would be to try to shutdown those servers remotely to prevent any further damage" i doubt anyone can other than the server provider survice and the law. MT doesn't have ultimate control over server operation, and never should. i could shut down your server if i felt like it one day