Time  Nick            Message
13:54 majochup        hi
14:55 majochup        ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
14:55 rubenwardy      ...
14:56 majochup        ?
14:57 majochup        its just a fun face rubenwardy
15:02 ircSparky       should server channels have two ##?
15:02 rubenwardy      yes
15:02 rubenwardy      # = an open source project
15:02 rubenwardy      ## = anything else
15:03 rubenwardy      also, Freenode technically isn't for server channel bridges
15:03 majochup        but doesnt CTF have that too?
15:03 rubenwardy      sssh :)
15:04 majochup        lol
15:04 Xiong           There's too much brutality.
15:04 majochup        so can ircsparky do it? :P
15:05 benrob0329      rubenwardy: but what if a server is an open source project? :P
15:05 majochup        lol
15:05 rubenwardy      not sure about that
15:05 rubenwardy      it rarely is
15:06 majochup        and what if some one does a channel like #NAME and its about a minetest SERVER
15:06 ircSparky       fbi OPEN UP
15:06 rubenwardy      https://freenode.net/policies
15:06 Xiong           The #-## distinction is rarely enforced.
15:06 rubenwardy      ^
15:07 rubenwardy      # runs the risk of being claimed by a project
15:07 rubenwardy      say you have a social channel called #discourse
15:07 rubenwardy      and then the forum software discourse is created, and then wants an IRC channel
15:07 Xiong           It took years... about a decade iirc... to rename #math to ##math.
15:07 majochup        ok
15:08 rubenwardy      they could probably claim #discourse, as it's not on-topic
15:08 benrob0329      someone has already claimed ##minetest
15:08 benrob0329      in 2011, and let it die without releasing it
15:08 benrob0329      nice
15:08 Xiong           I'm tired of fighting.
15:10 Xiong           I fight way way too much IRL. I play to do sth else... sth peaceful and oleasant.
15:10 majochup        hi
15:10 majochup        same Xiong
15:11 majochup        too much irl fighting... lol
15:11 Xiong           Well I'm smoking.
15:11 majochup        ...
15:11 majochup        .-.
15:12 Xiong           Logged in to find true weirdness... on server less than two weeks and I already have a dangerous enemy.
15:13 Xiong           Not funny. Resourceful, able, and with an axe to grind.
15:14 Xiong           So I just wasted... great gravy... three hours trying to explain this to admin. Who basically seems to feel that violent anarchy is okay.
15:15 ircSparky       the two ## things?
15:15 Xiong           All sorts of pointless side trips to get here... because he couldn't just say "We like war".
15:16 ircSparky       :P
15:16 majochup        sparky
15:16 majochup        i cant PM you on freenode
15:16 Xiong           What ircSparky?
15:16 majochup        hi
15:16 Xiong           Hi!
15:16 ircSparky       yea
15:17 ircSparky       what's his name? BillyS?
15:17 majochup        whos name?
15:18 Xiong           Sorry I'm not sure I haven't butted in.I'm very upset.
15:18 ircSparky       ok
15:21 Xiong           I'm an adult. If someone in a game says "let's fight" I don't take offense.
15:22 ircSparky       in my experience when someone says that to me its because we're both bored and want to 1v1 :P
15:23 Xiong           But when something is advertised as a constructive, cooperative game flips into war and the boss says oh yeh that's cool too... I feel abused.
15:23 majochup        yep
15:23 majochup        luckily sparky isnt like that :D
15:25 Xiong           I hate my life. I have failed IRL and that's bad. But I've failed at MT, too. Someone kill me pls.
15:27 * majochup      thinks
15:27 majochup        Xiong
15:27 majochup        nah *CENSORED BY HOLY_BONGOCAT INC* lol jk
15:28 ircSparky       hey man it's all good
15:28 ircSparky       someone being a dickhead isnt your fault
15:28 Xiong           I've spent my life trying to develop and follow decent principles of respect, honesty, industry, and friendliness and compassion toward others. And all I've gotten is nods and yehs and they pee in the cole slaw
15:29 majochup        yep
15:29 majochup        like *person is in here so i wont say names*
15:29 ircSparky       so what server is this? sounds like a factions pvp server or somehting
15:31 Xiong           I live in squalid poverty while Trump openly sneers at everything decent folk know. And he doesn't even care if he's president... he can afford not to work. He'll be furious if impeacehed... and enjoy every moment, raving and cursing, and tell the story until he dies, laughing his ass off.
15:32 Xiong           That lunatic lives like an emperor. I live like a rat under a boot.
15:33 Swedneck        is this really on topic?
15:33 Xiong           I don't think it helpful to name, to out people. YMMV.
15:34 majochup        Xiong i feel like ketchup :)
15:35 Xiong           Well Swedneck as the last dozen people said who insulted me when I was steering straight down the middle of the topic... dunno I care.
15:36 Swedneck        not sure what that means, but this is #minetest, not #politics
15:36 Swedneck        but oh well i'm not a moderator
15:36 Xiong           There should at least be constructive servers. I don't mean creative mode; sorry I don't respect that. No challenge.
15:37 Xiong           Swedneck my blather isn't politics it's self-pity and bathos.
15:38 Swedneck        ...which still isn't very relevant to minetest
15:38 Xiong           You noticed!
15:39 Xiong           The first principle of running a constructive server is defending the world. Boring nasty job. What I see, over and again, is the local god abandoning his throne to play mortal and build brass palaces
15:40 Xiong           While the boss is doing the work players should do... the players are left to fend off the wreckers alone. Helluva way to run a world. I guess they learned by example.
15:42 Swedneck        i have no clue what you're talking about lol
15:42 Xiong           Well when did you start reading?
15:43 Xiong           I am a pretty decent fellow; I'll catch you up.
15:43 Xiong           From the start? You tell me.
15:44 Xiong           0736 <Xiong> There should at least be constructive servers.
15:44 Swedneck        from the start
15:44 Xiong           That enough?
15:44 Xiong           Okay.
15:46 Xiong           I just wasted two weeks on a server, advertised as constructive, working hard, trying to be a friend to my neighbors. But for reasons unclear I have made an unknown and deadly enemy, smart, resourceful, and vicious. I don't even think he's a regular player, just a wandering vandal. But admin shrugs.
15:49 Xiong           Apparently I wasted my time planting flowers and trying to help players like the six year old girl who just wants to ride her bike... and plant flowers. I ought to have been building a fort out of blastproof concrete and digging lava moats roofed in trapstone.
15:49 Xiong           So yeh, I'm upset.
15:49 ircSparky       is that Persistent Kingdoms?
15:50 Xiong           No.
15:50 ircSparky       ok
15:50 ircSparky       does the 6 y/o girl think that time was wasted?
15:50 Xiong           But he's not the only such boss. I curse the class, not one man.
15:51 Xiong           I have no idea. I think her typing skills are limited to "hi" and "ok".
15:51 Swedneck        ah right, that sucks
15:53 Xiong           If this was the only such experience I'd shrug it off. But my point is that I've spent my real life the same way... trying to be decent and getting peed on. I don't enjoy it. I'd prefer another life, at least ingame.
15:54 ircSparky       what kind of server would you like?
15:54 Xiong           Well I said: constructive.
15:56 Xiong           Cooperative play, not "creative mode"; and a boss who puts his efforts into existential threats. Not puttering around.
15:56 Swedneck        I think friendly is a better term
15:57 ircSparky       what stuff do you like to do?
15:57 Xiong           I prefer "constructive" because constructing good things is, for me, friendly.
15:57 ircSparky       i have a citysim server
15:59 Xiong           Well I spent time expanding farms, reclaiming land, planting trees. I'm not terribly adventurous but I'll scout a long way to find plants and bring back.
15:59 ircSparky       do you think you'd like being police?
16:04 Xiong           I do build structures but I don't aim for squat blockhouses. The first structure I ever built was a classic Renaissance
16:04 Xiong           theater, with heaven, hell, castle, period-small stage... sweeping staircase, fountain, and bar below. Added, presumably, at a later and more decadent date.
16:04 Xiong           That was my first attempt at anything in MT.
16:06 Xiong           I called it the Greek Theater... not because it was one or resembled one; but because the men who built such things called them that.
16:07 Xiong           My... erm former current project... was a mashup of Middle Eastern and Soviet influences. Much desert stone.
16:08 Xiong           Think Kremlin in Istsnbul.
16:08 Xiong           Istanbul!
16:09 Xiong           ircSparky I can think of no task than police that I would like less.
16:09 Xiong           Rather village idiot.
16:10 ircSparky       lol
16:10 majochup        lol
16:11 Xiong           I respect police IRL, for all that they have feet of clay and an unfortunate habit of shooting at citizens. But as imperfect humans they do get up and go to work a very difficult job, with few real rewards.
16:13 Xiong           Before anyone runs around singing FTP, I'd ask what life would be like with no police at all.
16:15 VanessaE        1920 Chicago, more or less
16:16 Xiong           Once... here in San Francisco... I called to report I'd been assaulted... battered by a weapon to be more precise... by the lunatic methhead next door. Four hours and the beat supervisor showed. "I got four cops for the whole Mission District on Saturday night. We can't even keep up with shots-fired."
16:18 Xiong           So yes thank you sergeant and no thank you ircSparky. Do not want the job.
16:18 Xiong           VanessaE Hi!
16:19 ircSparky       yea San Fransico got it hard
16:19 Xiong           What do you think? Why is this so tolerated, server after server turned into a disorganized huddle of fortified bunkers?
16:20 Xiong           Why is security so bad?
16:20 ircSparky       are the servers supposed to be pvp?
16:21 majochup        xerox123 why do u have 2 accounts?
16:21 majochup        i mean IRC accounts
16:21 Xiong           Granted there's a tradeoff between keeping the doors open for new honest players and defending against these... serial home invaders and arsonists.
16:22 Xiong           Which servers ircSparky?
16:23 Xiong           Obviously some servers are PvP.
16:23 ircSparky       the ones you are talking about?
16:23 xerox123        majochup: one's for my phone, and I hate it when my ZNC playbacks merge
16:23 Xiong           The roving delinquents sometimes kill players but they also destroy and steal.
16:23 ircSparky       most servers have protection blocks that dont allows people to destroy
16:24 Xiong           I'm not talking about servers so much as threats... and our inability to cope.
16:25 Xiong           Not all bad actions are wrecking.  There are several flavors. Also there are ways to defeat popular protection schemes.
16:25 ircSparky       well, if a server isnot meant to be pvp, one can easily make a mod that only lets people who want to pvp get damaged, or disable it entirely
16:26 ircSparky       and have protection blocks or areas to prevent griefing
16:26 ircSparky       as well as trustworthy moderators to enforce the other server rules
16:27 Xiong           One can easily do x, y, and z. But all together seems to be an overwhelming task. And the attacks range from crude to sophisticated. There are hacked clients.
16:27 VanessaE        sorry, had to step out.  Xiong, my opinion?  it comes with the territory.  online gaming attracts bad actors.  simple as that.
16:27 Xiong           No surprise VE.
16:28 VanessaE        at least my servers are well-managed, most of the time anyway :)
16:28 Xiong           But... a bank attracts robbers. They invest in good security.
16:29 Xiong           I avoid all-or-nothing thinking. We cannot have perfect security and all security comes at a cost. But rape and pillage should not be daily incidents.
16:29 VanessaE        yeah but a bank is a different matter - you can't just hack your way through the vault door (well, not usually)
16:30 Xiong           Right. And MT should, I think, be less vulnerable than it is.
16:30 VanessaE        "rape and pillage" are best managed with clear rules and a no-tolerance policy - play nice or fuck off to ban land.
16:31 ircSparky       yea what servers are you playing on?
16:31 ircSparky       my server only has one guy that causes major trouble
16:31 ircSparky       and evades bans
16:31 VanessaE        as for "hacked" clients, they only do things the player could do anyway, except faster.  fly and noclip aside.
16:31 Xiong           Ah, but the damage is done.  There are enough bad actors banging around to make life unpleasant, even if you ban every nick and ip you see.
16:31 VanessaE        and there's nothing that can really be done to defend against that.
16:32 Xiong           Fly and no clip is bad enough, no?
16:32 ircSparky       there is anticheat
16:32 VanessaE        they're bad, but there's nothing the server can really do, in a performant way, to make those not a problem
16:32 ircSparky       but yea if you have any servers that you'd like specific advice for, i could probably help
16:33 Xiong           Look I'll stop right here. I see a very bad problem and I say it needs work. No point fixing anything else if a teen with angst and too much free time can wreck it... and there are dozens of them.
16:34 VanessaE        Xiong: point is it *can't* be fixed.
16:34 VanessaE        not right now anyway
16:34 Xiong           ircSparky I don't mean to be insulting but why are we talking at cross purposes?
16:34 Xiong           Yes, rightnow.
16:34 rubenwardy      noclip and fly can be fixed with a lot of non-trivial engine changes
16:35 rubenwardy      currently movement is client-side, and that's the problem
16:35 VanessaE        unless you can come up with a sub-millisecond-precision network protocol that is impervious to lag
16:35 ircSparky       idk what you mean Xiong
16:35 Xiong           Nothing really has a higher priority than building a friendly, open community.
16:35 rubenwardy      VanessaE: this is a solved problem
16:36 rubenwardy      client-side prediction, server-side reconcilliation
16:36 VanessaE        rubenwardy: not in 0.4.x it isn't :P
16:36 rubenwardy      a "solved problem" means that the computer science field already has many solutions available
16:36 VanessaE        right
16:36 Xiong           Yes well I'm running the 5.0.0 and it's the same old war.
16:36 rubenwardy      it doesn't mean that a particular application implements any of them
16:37 * VanessaE      shrugsa
16:37 * VanessaE      shrugs, too.
16:37 Xiong           Better security doesn't mean perfect security!
16:38 ircSparky       but it does mean better
16:38 ircSparky       and a better experience
16:38 Xiong           I'm making an impassioned yet sober appeal for less involuntary brutality.
16:38 ircSparky       to who
16:39 Xiong           To you. To myself. To anyone who listens. Perhaps more, to those who don't.
16:40 majochup        k
16:40 Swedneck        the solution seems pretty simple to me: find or start a server with a good community and admins/mods that care
16:41 Xiong           I don't want a splinter in my palm every time I pick up.a broom. Life is life and there will be splinters. But the broomstick can be sanded.
16:41 Xiong           Simple solution, of course. Why didn't I think of that? I must be a fool and an idiot.
16:42 VanessaE        Swedneck: the problem is, to encourage that, you need good rules, too.  but rules drive people away, and having too few people makes for a boring server.
16:43 Xiong           "I'm broke and starving." -- "Go get some money and buy food. Simple solution!"
16:43 ircSparky       ok i will be less involentarily brutal
16:43 ircSparky       ttyl
16:43 Swedneck        i don't think rules drive people away, as long as they're not the length of an average EULA, and very clear
16:43 Xiong           I do not agree rules are a solution.
16:44 Swedneck        err, it's not that hard to start your own server
16:45 VanessaE        Swedneck: then maybe you can explain why my servers don't even make the top 10 in the list, despite having good admins, good mod selection, nice builds, and relatively few rules
16:45 Xiong           Bad actors don't care they're breaking rules... rather, they glory in it. Ban them, they just move on... or move to another ip and come back to do it again.
16:45 majochup        VanessaE: is there a top 10 best MT server list?
16:45 VanessaE        majochup: http://servers.minetest.net/
16:46 VanessaE        not a top 10 but trivial to see who's there
16:46 Xiong           VanessaE not sure you mean the server list built into the client? How is that sorted?
16:46 VanessaE        Xiong: that ^^^ link, which the in-game list is derived from
16:47 VanessaE        the sorting algorithm is complex
16:47 Xiong           Well I've time.
16:48 VanessaE        takes a bunch of stuff into account like player count, server age, lag, and more.
16:48 Xiong           You said you weren't near top. Must not sort on quality.
16:48 VanessaE        it does not.
16:49 Xiong           Well then, rank on such a list... meaningless.
16:50 Xiong           Not sure a point score based on "likes" would be much better. One man's trash another's treasure.
16:50 VanessaE        it matters because if your server isn't on that all-important first page, it may as well not exist./
16:50 VanessaE        because users don't seem to know how to scroll and read
16:52 Xiong           VanessaE how many times per week is someone on your (survival mode) server attacked, vandalized, cheated, or otherwise upset and outraged over something concrete? Not just gimmee-cry.
16:53 VanessaE        perhaps once a month I get some report like that
16:53 VanessaE        and it's always someone who didn't bother to protect their structure.
16:53 Xiong           Well that's better than what I got.
16:53 VanessaE        the offender is checked-out, banned.
16:53 Xiong           Aha!
16:54 Xiong           And how much time and (time to generate resources) should I spend protecting what's mine?
16:55 VanessaE        it only takes seconds to place a protection block
16:55 VanessaE        less than a minute to use `areas` mod commands.
16:55 VanessaE        once done, griefing is unlikely to happen.
16:55 VanessaE        it's not like you have to hire site security or something
16:57 Xiong           To give you an idea... I put my ground-level elevator behind two layers of steel doors with obfuscation between... obfuscated all paths to underground stops... and elaborated the whole with tells and misdirection. The attacker glitched through all and dug a kilometer-deep deathtrap for me. Me personally!
16:58 VanessaE        no protection blocks/commands?
16:59 Xiong           I thought I'd been paranoid. I was ashamed of myself for building so much antisocial junk
16:59 Xiong           What?
16:59 Xiong           Everything protected. Land grab.
16:59 VanessaE        obviously not.
16:59 VanessaE        protection blocks or areas commands cause the engine to prevent non-owner place/dig actions entirely, no matter how hacked their client is.
16:59 Xiong           Obviously yes.
17:00 Xiong           No protection deep underground.
17:00 VanessaE        why not?
17:00 Xiong           Dunno. Ask boss.
17:00 VanessaE        protection blocks/commands are not usually limited to just the surface
17:01 Xiong           Not the point. Attacker glitched through my fully protected surface lab doors.
17:01 VanessaE        you're not listening.
17:02 Xiong           No; you have a point unrelated to my point.
17:02 VanessaE        an attacker may be able to "glitch" through a protected wall, but protection features mean that wall would still remain, and that floor would not remain dug up, let alone be a kilometer deep
17:02 Xiong           I read very quickly and type very slowly... with one finger on my phone.
17:02 VanessaE        which in turn means "the boss" whoever he is, is an idiot.
17:03 VanessaE        for using unreliable protection mods.
17:03 majochup        hi
17:03 Xiong           The hole starts at -1200 and goes to about -2400.
17:03 VanessaE        so?
17:04 Xiong           So that has nothing to do with somebody in my elevators.
17:04 * VanessaE      wanders off
17:04 Xiong           Nobody should be in my elevators but me unless I make them public.
17:05 Xiong           Sorry my concerns don't concern you.
17:07 Xiong           I do not want to spend my play time stuffing claim blocks all over creation. That eventually leads to overclaiming and a world where a newcomer can't find a meter of dirt to sleep on... just like IRL.
17:10 Xiong           I want to see less paranoid bunker-building, more social structures, common areas, public resources. More joy, less throat-cutting. Less play time wasted scheming how to hang onto a box of rocks.
17:12 freudolacaniano Hi, how are you? I have problems installing mods, I just can't! I'm running 0.4.16 on Linux Mint 19.1
17:13 Xiong           Nobody should even be able to dig a kilometer-deep hole without any care. That's a hazard no matter how it's done.
17:13 Xiong           freudolacaniano do tell.
17:13 freudolacaniano When I put mods on the corresponding place, it shouts "Error"
17:13 freudolacaniano In the console
17:14 Xiong           Probably not. But let me step you through it.
17:14 Swedneck        ~/.minetest/mods, correct?
17:15 Swedneck        and are you putting archives or normal folders in there?
17:15 freudolacaniano usr/share/games/.minetest/mods
17:15 Xiong           Can you run the package in singleplayer right after install?
17:15 freudolacaniano There I'm decompressing the zips packages
17:15 Xiong           Okay Swedneck you do it.
17:15 Swedneck        try putting the mods in ~/.minetest/mods instead
17:16 Xiong           freudolacaniano if you get the help you want, great. If not, ask me again
17:16 freudolacaniano Well, let's see
17:17 Ruslan1         Hello
17:17 Krock           hi
17:21 freudolacaniano Should I rename the folders when I unzip it?
17:22 majochup        idk
17:22 Swedneck        only if they have dashes or other not allowed characters
17:22 majochup        freudolacaniona: if it has something with opener or so in i
17:22 majochup        it*
17:23 Swedneck        ideally they should be archived in such a way that they have the correct name when extracted
17:23 freudolacaniano Thanks!
17:23 majochup        or manager that should be removed
17:23 majochup        yw :)
17:23 Swedneck        for example most of the time if it's named something like "minetest-technic" then just remove "minetest-"
17:25 freudolacaniano Thank you everyone! It worked perfectly, I was just putting the mods on the wrong folder (usr/share/games/.minetest instead of myname/.minetest) and also was not naming correctly the folders.
17:26 majochup        your welcome :P
17:26 Swedneck        :D
17:26 Swedneck        also keep in mind that you have to enable mods per-world
17:26 Swedneck        and that some mods have dependencies, which you will need to download and enable.
17:27 Swedneck        however in the next minetest release this is all going to be made much simpler, with the client handling mods for you
17:27 Swedneck        see https://content.minetest.net
17:30 Krock           Swedneck: renaming them is no longer needed (since ~0.4.15) if the mod contains a "mod.conf" file inside
17:31 Krock           that will correct the mod name automatically
17:31 Swedneck        90% of the time minetest complained about them having illegal characters in the name, for me
17:31 Swedneck        until i changed the directory name
17:31 Krock           so 90% of your mods are old
17:32 Krock           you don't need to rename them if you clone the mods directly from git* btw
17:32 Krock           unless the mod author decided to name their mod "minetest-mymodname"
17:32 Swedneck        https://gateway.swedneck.xyz/ipfs/QmWJsJio1saseDqnwDgYGjMc5cuggoGwVRqri1BckrZNbL/2019-01-11_18-32-32.png
17:33 Krock           waiting for connection...
17:33 Krock           looks about right
17:33 Swedneck        most of those were renamed, because minetest complained otherwise
17:33 Krock           naming does not matter for mesecons, plantlife and technic in this case; they're modpacks
17:35 Krock           uh.. storing images in ipfs? That's an interesting decision
17:35 Swedneck        how so
17:37 Krock           actually it's the ipfs' server owners problem if they want to store files which aren't interesting or up-to-date after a few weeks
17:38 Krock           if there's no "forget" function for unpopular/unlinked files then the amount of garbage will quickly take more space than the actual interesting files
17:38 Swedneck        which would be me, since it's served from my desktop and server
17:38 Krock           isn't it connected to an outside upfs network?
17:38 Krock           *ipfs
17:38 Swedneck        well yes, but only my nodes store the data
17:39 Krock           oh I see. that's a feature I wasn't aware of
17:39 Swedneck        you can ofc choose to pin it on your own node
17:40 Swedneck        getting a bit offtopic, but ipfs deduplicates any identical blocks of data in files, so if 2 screenshots are mostly the same then the second one will only take up as much extra space as is different from the first screenshot
17:43 Krock           a visual diff? wow
17:44 Swedneck        well it splits files into small chunks, and files in ipfs are just a list of hashes of those chunks
17:44 Swedneck        visit #ipfs and i can go more in depth
17:46 Krock           thanks for the pointer and the explanations, although I'm not interested enough to dig further into this topic.
17:46 Swedneck        sure thing
17:46 Krock           just trying to get an overview, as a rough knowledge of what it offers
18:30 Xiong           Well philosophy aside... I am running prerelease 5.0.0 with good results. I'll take suggestions for servers: survival mode, v7, no PvP, no "far". I want to see UI and a broad selection of interesting mods... probably rather see moretrees than technic but interesting is better than any particular item. I like autocrafters, anvils, and shears. No mobs! All of this is less than a server run on principles of conduct that *improve* on
18:46 CWz             issue with software manager: https://i.postimg.cc/g2cR78MB/Screenshot-at-2019-01-11-20-44-48.png
18:52 rubenwardy      which one?
18:56 CWz             Ubuntu Mate
18:56 CWz             but i am using the official ppa
20:18 IhrFussel       Xiong, "no mobs" already invalidates 90% of survival servers alone... what is a survival server without hostile creatures?
20:19 IhrFussel       Additionally no PvP so no PvP survival either... are you looking for a survival simulation rather than a real survival game? Only hunger/thirst/stamina/health matters?
20:22 IhrFussel       On my server PvP is per-player and ve be toggled anytime via /pvp or with the window that asks you after you join ... but it has mobs... over 30 different types of mobs with different skins, different strengths, different ratings (so that one mob can be different from another even if it's the same species) ... I think that makes for a very exciting gameplay
20:22 IhrFussel       and can*
20:23 IhrFussel       Players who don't like monsters can protect a HUGE area somewhere and no monsters will spawn anywhere within that area ... each player has 10 protections for up to 128x96x128 in size
20:26 IhrFussel       But without mobs my server gets boring fast... even though there are other aspects like hunger ... and my level system also makes little sense if you never fight mobs cause the level system dtermines your damage and gives you a feel of progression
20:29 IhrFussel       You also have more HP with higher levels... I put quite a bit of work into an ugly hack that makes it possible to have more than 20 HP in 0.4.X versions cause usually you can't
20:35 IhrFussel       'far' is a persoal preference, I understand that you don't like it... it is enabled on my server cause you can see when someone gets hurt/heals cause the name tag will change and show their HP
20:35 IhrFussel       personal*
20:36 Krock           nice monologie
20:36 Krock           s/ie/ue/
20:38 IhrFussel       'interesting mods' is very subjective... even though I have 200 some simply don't want to play on my server cause I'm missing 'technic' and 'pipeworks'
20:40 IhrFussel       The distance between you and the server location might also be an important point to consider... it's not fun to play on a survival server with 200ms+ ping
20:41 IhrFussel       btw there are barely any 5.0.0 servers right now... and none of them has an active userbase last I checked... I recommend to just stick with 0.4.X servers for now
20:43 IhrFussel       And don't expect too many longterm servers to quickly upgrade when 5.0.0 releases... I certainly won't
20:44 Krock           IhrFussel: you're wrong. Creatively Survival has already quite a solid userbase
20:44 IhrFussel       Krock, I was just replying to what Xiong said earlier in this channel
20:44 Krock           sauce: playing on it sometimes
20:45 IhrFussel       The servers that run on 5.0.0-dev right now are no longterm servers that ran for years already AFAIK ... they are fresh, new servers that try to establish a new userbase
20:46 IhrFussel       Some of them just exist for testing
20:47 Krock           they're not longterm servers. yet.
20:49 IhrFussel       When 5.0.0 releases there will be trouble... iOS users will still play on their 3rd-party app that only supports 0.4.X while most PC/Android users might switch to 5.0.0 and wonder why they can't play on their favorite servers anymore...it will be a mess
20:51 IhrFussel       And it's up to each server owner to decide when the right time is to upgrade ... maybe it could help when the core devs begin to distribute regular usage stats
20:51 VanessaE        ^  precisely why my servers will not move over to 5.0.0 right away
20:51 IhrFussel       "how many used 0.4.X this month and how many used 5.0.0"
20:52 majochup        hi :D
20:53 Krock           IhrFussel: bug 5fan5 for stats
20:53 IhrFussel       How is it planned for the play store? Will 5.0.0 just be a simple update? Or will it be a separate app?
20:54 rubenwardy      It'll be an update
20:54 IhrFussel       If it's just an update for every 0.4.X user then I see BIG problems incoming
20:55 IhrFussel       You should at least warn everyone in the app description that if they update they will NO longer be able to play on 0.4.X servers
20:56 IhrFussel       That might at least save the ones that disabled auto updates
20:56 Krock           dude, that's a week and the players moved
20:56 Krock           or wait for 5.1.0
20:56 Krock           and then for 5.2.0 to finally miss the train
20:57 IhrFussel       You don't get that many major servers will not upgrade after 1 week...I doubt that they will upgrade after 1 month either
20:58 IhrFussel       Did you ever compare the userbase in the server list to the amount of servers? It is somewhat already a huge competition between servers
20:58 Krock           you'd be surprised how fast this may change
20:58 IhrFussel       There is not even enough users to fill all servers even if they were split as "2 per server"
20:58 Krock           regarding your first statement
20:59 Krock           well yes, that's how it works. popular servers rise, others become unattractive.
21:00 IhrFussel       But if the userbase was larger then they were FORCED to also check out "unpopular" servers cause the top servers are already full
21:01 Krock           and more servers would spawn again
21:01 Krock           until they notice that there's no demand for it
21:02 IhrFussel       We talked LONG long ago about a possible solution ... paramat had the idea once to prioritize "quality servers"
21:03 IhrFussel       Not sure what his exact definition was but I'd guess servers that are well maintained and have a healthy userbase ... maybe he also wanted to include age, uptime and avg lag...not sure
21:04 IhrFussel       I think he also talked about be possibility of "rolling" through top servers
21:04 IhrFussel       the*
21:05 IhrFussel       So that not only the one with the highest score stays at the top ... cause the score system in the server list is rather random
21:06 IhrFussel       There are user waves where nobody has any idea where they come from... and if those waves target a server that was far down in the list, it jumps suddenly to the top
21:06 IhrFussel       And when the wave is over it falls again after some time
21:09 IhrFussel       Don't ask me why they sometimes flood servers with less people... I heard there are apps that require coins in order to "unlock" more servers ... and there are apps that "feature" always another server ... there are apps that require you to watch ADS to collect ingame currency to have access to more servers
21:11 IhrFussel       There are also ads that enable you to cheat on servers if you pay some money I think...cause I saw a mobile user who told me that they could walk faster and they actually COULD
21:11 IhrFussel       apps not ads*
21:12 IhrFussel       They walked a tad faster...it was not 'fast' speed ... more like 5-6 nodes/sec
21:35 freudolacaniano Hi, I need help again. I've installed mobs_redo,animals,horses and npc and they don't appear on the worlds I create. I active ALL MODS before I start playing. Can anyone help me?
21:36 freudolacaniano My version is 0.4.16
21:44 IhrFussel       Check if the mods are really enabled
21:44 IhrFussel       Try /spawnentity mobs_animal:bunny
21:45 Krock           freudolacaniano: are the mods loaded? check /mods
21:47 freudolacaniano I put /mods and mobs appear
21:49 freudolacaniano Yes, animals appear
21:50 freudolacaniano When I use the cmd
21:51 Krock           I had that issue too and just increased the spawn chance
21:52 Krock           they spawn, but very rarely.
21:53 freudolacaniano How do I increase the spawn chance?
21:56 Krock           for horses: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mob_horse/src/master/init.lua#L151
21:56 Krock           chance = 10,
21:56 Krock           interval = 5,
21:58 freudolacaniano Okay
21:59 freudolacaniano I put the same numbers on the other animals?
22:03 IhrFussel       freudolacaniano, lower chance means "appears more often"
22:04 freudolacaniano And interval?
22:04 IhrFussel       Seconds between the "chance" check
22:04 freudolacaniano Thank you so much!! I downloaded the game yesterday, thank you all for being so patient!
22:05 IhrFussel       You shouldn't make it too low or else your map will be flooded with animals... I would suggest an interval of 15 ad chance of 5000
22:05 IhrFussel       Chance needs to be that high because it checks the chance for each block in a radius
22:06 freudolacaniano Oh okay, thank you
22:06 IhrFussel       If animals only spawn on dirt_with_grass the chance can be a bit lower than when animals spawn on dirt and dirt with grass
22:07 IhrFussel       Generally make the chance higher based on nodes defined above the chance/interval
22:09 Krock           yes, roughly the same numbers to the other registered mobs
22:11 freudolacaniano So, if I put chance 5000 and interval 15, every 15 seconds, there is a chance of 1/5000 that a mob spawn?
22:13 IhrFussel       Per node/block in a radius of active_block_range
22:13 IhrFussel       No wait
22:14 IhrFussel       It checks the chance per 15 seconds for each defined node inside the spawn registration that is within the radius of (16*3) nodes in each direction by default
22:15 IhrFussel       When the mob needs dirt and there is no dirt nothing will spawn
22:15 freudolacaniano Okay
22:15 Krock           *  16^3, not 16*3
22:16 Krock           ABMs are performed per mapblock
22:16 freudolacaniano Well, I put the chances between 3000 and 6000, I hope mobs now spawn.
22:16 IhrFussel       But it is 16*3 nodes in each direction
22:16 Krock           48 nodes? how so?
22:16 IhrFussel       active_block_range
22:17 IhrFussel       I though a value of 3 means 48 nodes in each direction
22:17 Krock           they could also be forceloaded
22:17 IhrFussel       Mobs only spawn within active_block_range
22:18 IhrFussel       Nothing gets forceloaded
22:18 IhrFussel       Let me check the exact range
22:20 IhrFussel       The mobs use a ABM to spawn and ABMs can only run within 48 nodes from the player...or not?
22:20 IhrFussel       By default
22:21 Krock           yes that's true. Additionally they will also spawn around mapblocks which are forceloaded by other mods
22:21 Krock           I wonder why mobs_redo isn't using LBMs yet
22:21 Krock           that would make mobs appear much quicker in-game
22:22 IhrFussel       freudolacaniano, if you want mobs to spawn from farther away you can increase the active_block_range setting (this might slow down your game a bit)
22:23 IhrFussel       Default view range is 100 I think... so at default settings the mobs will just pop in which might look ugly
22:23 freudolacaniano Well, no. my pc is not so good, so I prefer to reduce the chance if I still don't see mobs
22:24 IhrFussel       It's not about chance...I meant mobs will only spawn "close" to you and not far away...if this doesn't bother you all is fine
22:25 IhrFussel       You should also reduce your view range (- key) if your PC is old
22:25 Krock           Minetest will mainly require a strong single core CPU. for view range 100 it's fine to have a benchmark value of 2000+ (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/)
22:26 Krock           *strong single thread rating
22:26 Krock           well, the mobs will not spawn far away anyway
22:31 freudolacaniano And I increase view range with +?
22:32 Krock           yep
22:32 Krock           or manually in the config file
22:35 freudolacaniano I put 200 and still goes well
22:39 freudolacaniano Thank you. I've started a game with a fractal map and it's very cool
22:48 Krock           yay