Time  Nick        Message
00:40 hecks       So, by fiddling with emerge settings, I finally managed to make singleplayer run somewhat reliably.
00:40 entuland    why, what was the issue with it?
00:41 hecks       Well first of all, there's the singleplayer problem; you run both the client and the server, and each is nontrivial.
00:41 hecks       Most of the server's workload is in emerge, the client's is in meshing.
00:41 hecks       and possibly rendering, if your viewing range is far enough
00:42 hecks       Now, default settings for emerge are very bad for this, and the behavior is quite counter-intuitive.
00:42 rubenwardy  you might as well consider singleplayer as 4 parts really
00:42 rubenwardy  meshgen <-> client <-> server <-> emerge
00:42 entuland    uhm... it must be that I've got a decent rig and pretty much always play singleplayer, so I can't really compare
00:43 rubenwardy  there may even be send threads, which makes it
00:43 hecks       Defaults may work for some, entuland
00:43 rubenwardy  meshgen <-> client <-> send/recv <-> send/rec <-> server <-> emerge
00:43 hecks       Yes, the thing is, client physics and rendering is negligible, and gameplay code (most of lua) on the server just as much
00:44 hecks       The big problem is though, minetest fails to prioritize that "light but critical" code while juggling it with the heavy voxel processing.
00:44 hecks       there's also liquids and abms but I'll dump that with "server voxel stuff"
00:44 rubenwardy  https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/blob/master/build.sh
00:44 rubenwardy  oops
00:45 hecks       My earlier issues were that the server side gameplay code was stalling; often for ridiculous amounts of time
00:45 hecks       2 minutes without a decent globalstep were not unheard of!
00:45 rubenwardy  oh wow
00:45 rubenwardy  sounds like a faulty mod maybe
00:46 rubenwardy  or I/O
00:46 hecks       Your mom's faulty, I run my own subgame :)
00:46 hecks       and I/O was ruled out by running it all in ramdisks
00:46 rubenwardy  lol
00:46 hecks       The main culprit is emerge... default settings do not fit this "profile" well
00:46 hecks       My current "nice" emerge settings are: 1 thread, max queue 4 (!) and the rest set to 0 (auto I presume)
00:47 hecks       The engine generates the world in nice 4-mapblock bites and never blocks the rest of the game for too long, I haven't gotten almost any "lag detected" messages in my game since.
00:48 hecks       A tiny queue does not slow the mapgen, to the contrary. And using multiple emerge threads is a little counter-intuitive; most multi-CPU users will hike that hoping to speed up emerge.
00:49 hecks       But all that does is slightly increase the "noise sampling" part of map generation, at the cost of dumping bigger chunks of work onto the "joining" code!
00:49 hecks       slightly speed up, I meant
00:50 hecks       Hence 3-4 emerge threads with default queue settings will dump so much onto the main thread that the "lua game" will be starved of CPU cycles, despite needing next to none.
00:50 entuland    speaking of which... "/!\ You are using old player file backend. This backend is deprecated and will be removed in next release /!\"
00:50 rubenwardy  how is map loading?
00:50 rubenwardy  it won't be removed
00:50 rubenwardy  probably
00:50 entuland    I have noticed that message recently, but it disappeared in the last runs
00:50 rubenwardy  it's also been a few releases since that
00:50 hecks       Do you mean performance with my current settings? Basically the same it was with threads.
00:51 entuland    I did nothing (didn't update the game or anything) is that tied to mods / servers?
00:51 hecks       The only noticeable difference is that the map is loaded in those concise "strips" in the distance, as opposed to semi-random mapblocks.
00:52 hecks       Performance per vision range seems comparable as well, with the difference that it's now "only" stuttering, as opposed to filling up the queue and choking hard for over half a minute.
00:53 hecks       Lua on_generated calls throw extra problems into this, as they are single threaded. So the "dumping tons of data on the main thread at once" issue is magnified with those.
00:53 hecks       On the other hand, doing it one or a few mapblocks at a time lets the CPU allocate time more evenly.
00:55 hecks       So now I'm running this subgame at 60 frames server step (!) without a lick of issues. Pretty good.
00:56 hecks       But it shouldn't have taken me almost a year of fiddling with settings to find this out. Not to mention the computing knowledge required to figure this out.
00:57 hecks       Maybe the defaults need some reconsidering, and special considerations for singleplayer.
01:01 hecks       Even when running something as heavy as ffmpeg in the background, the server doesn't choke at all.
01:06 hecks       https://a.uguu.se/eSoRdvhEJyLO_smooth.webm
01:07 hecks       the lag message at the beginning is from alt tabbing, it's not actual lag
01:08 entuland    uh? that's minetest?
01:08 hecks       Yes it is, you can tell by the nodes ;^)
01:08 entuland    didn't know we had such fluently animated avatars :P
01:08 hecks       "we" don't
01:09 entuland    eheheheh
01:10 hecks       It also saddens me every time someone comments on the model and animation but doesn't notice the perfectly implemented action combat...
01:10 hecks       *that* was much harder, you know
01:10 entuland    oh well I can't comment on the action combat, I just seen the weapon swung once or twice
01:10 hecks       ...with the player stepping forward, animated
01:10 hecks       Sorry, I'll record a better example :)
01:11 hecks       in a less eye-busting biome
01:11 entuland    well that was included in "such fluently animated avatars" :)
01:11 hecks       Animations are one thing, but out of the box, minetest only supports "jerk a pickaxe around while WASD-ing"
01:11 hecks       Moving actors using animation, this is harder
01:12 entuland    I take that this is stuff you're working on (and yes, that's impressively fluent in all the movements)
01:12 hecks       Yes, it's mine.
01:12 hecks       Mine Test.
01:13 entuland    :)
01:13 entuland    the effect on the hair when falling down (or simply after a jump) is very very nice as well
01:14 hecks       It's just part of the animation.
01:14 hecks       It could be more dynamic IF entity attachment and bone position shenanigans weren't broken...
01:15 entuland    I take that you're "just" making it to work within minetest, but you didn't model / rig / animate any of that, correct?
01:16 hecks       Guess again. https://a.uguu.se/mo5rUPVy4UdD_mibi.png
01:16 entuland    oh nice
01:17 entuland    well, you mislead me brushing that off with "it's just part of the animation" - I took you were waiving credit about that!
01:18 hecks       I can't blame you, because buying assets and lacing them with your bad code is how you become an indie star these days.
01:18 entuland    great job so far, definitely impressive
01:21 entuland    testing out your emerge settings
01:22 hecks       I imagine that for an online server, the optimal settings would be different because you *do* need to handle several different people's FOVs
01:22 hecks       however, "easy" generation like this is good enough for one player
01:23 hecks       I'm treating it as more of a proof that minetest isn't utterly, horribly, terribly borked like I assumed before today
01:23 rubenwardy  any chance of this being made into standalone mods?
01:23 rubenwardy  more as an example than actually useful
01:23 hecks       Standalone mods?
01:23 hecks       You mean, actually slicing out bits of my code for you human vermin to use? How dare you.
01:24 rubenwardy  lol
01:24 hecks       It wouldn't even work... you have no idea how much shit I piled up on top of minetest and lua
01:24 rubenwardy  will you be sharing the code for it anyway?
01:24 entuland    uhm... I have three different limits for emerge (absolute, disk, to generate) set to 256, 32, 32... you set them to 4, 0, 0 ?
01:24 hecks       It simply isn't extractable or compatible with minetest_game's way of doing things.
01:24 rubenwardy  I don't care about minetest game, really
01:24 hecks       As for sharing, I will gladly part with the source code and assets for a modest price of five hundred thousand US dollars. :)
01:24 rubenwardy  heh
01:24 entuland    eheheheh
01:24 hecks       Plus tax.
01:25 rubenwardy  I also don't care about the assets
01:25 rubenwardy  and I'll happily part with the source code for minetest for a modest price of 0$
01:25 hecks       There's also the long way; Download a modern game engine, spend 5 years understanding how a game is actually supposed to work, reimplement it in lua...
01:26 hecks       The $500k isn't for mibi, it's internet's late payments on my other projects :)
01:26 hecks       If not, oh well, I'll finish mibi and then DBAN it away on stream while you watch.
01:29 rubenwardy  You could have just said "no, sorry. I'd like to release this as a commercial product some day"
01:29 hecks       I don't even want that, I just don't care.
01:36 entuland    weird... flying around the world I found a large dungeon made of cobblestone and mossy cobblestone _completely_ above the ground (barely touching the top of a hill) --- is it just me ignorant about how vanilla V7 works?
01:36 entuland    no mods that could possibly do that loaded (only my own mods which don't mess with map generation)
01:36 hecks       As long as there's one node connecting it to the ground, it'll "work".
01:36 entuland    oh
01:36 hecks       Yes, this does happen in vanilla.
01:36 entuland    so it's normal, thanks
01:37 rubenwardy  This is a feature apparently
01:37 hecks       It does make for interesting structures.
01:37 hecks       I assume it just picks one "entrance" node and plots whatever it wants from it.
01:38 entuland    yep, very nice
01:38 hecks       Changing the ruins node to something more interesting than cobble makes it look better.
01:40 hecks       Now I have a question, does the heatmap influence height in v7? I could swear I keep seeing the same kinds of features in the same biomes...
01:42 entuland    uhm... where would I be changing that setting, hecks? the interface I used to mess with emerge doesn't show any hit for "ruin"
01:43 entuland    and what node would you advise?
01:43 hecks       You don't, this is what mods can do.
01:43 entuland    ah
01:43 entuland    I thought there was some settings file not covered by that interface
01:43 hecks       And I advise original content :) https://a.uguu.se/LmJiags2rbpj_techruins.png
01:43 ANAND       There's even a setting for floating dungeons
01:43 entuland    eheheh
01:44 ANAND       Not sure why one would want that though :)
01:45 entuland    well, not everybody can be well-versed in creating assets (I suck at designing stuff)
01:45 entuland    :P
01:45 hecks       I'm pleased to say that optimizing emerge made dynamic lights much more viable.
01:45 hecks       Goodbye, torch pollution.
02:17 hecks       Just observed something; even when trying to make the mapgen completely serial (1 0 0 1), it still dumps mapblocks in slices of 4
02:22 hecks       emerge 4 0 0 1, mesher delay 1; the game now feels extremely snappy, even the input feels better - but map generation became very lazy
02:22 hecks       the mesher basically refuses to mesh blocks that aren't in my active range
02:23 hecks       Turning off the mesher delay brings things back to normal, maybe the mesher delay isn't working as intended?
02:24 hecks       It really feels like an all-or-nothing setting
02:25 hecks       A mesher delay of 50ms (the maximum) feels a little lazier
02:27 hecks       Trying mesher with a 512MB cache; it's choppy.
02:28 hecks       Disabled cache entirely, it's smooth again.
02:35 hecks       Finally, allocating an extra emerge thread did not make map generation much faster, but it sure added some stutter.
02:36 hecks       rubenwardy if you're still around; would this be worth documenting?
02:38 hecks       that is, a warning for the num_emerge_threads setting, that it may negatively affect performance in singleplayer and/or with lua mapgens
02:59 paramat     hecks "does the heatmap influence height in v7?" no, not in any mapgen either
02:59 hecks       okay then
03:00 paramat     entuland the setting 'protruding dungeons' can remove the er, protruding dungeons
03:00 hecks       Could've sworn I've seen more cliffs and huge pits in hot biomes but if it's bollocks, it's bollocks
03:01 paramat     it's bollocks
03:01 entuland    in the normal GUI settings page, paramat?
03:02 hecks       search "Projecting dungeons"
03:03 paramat     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/9854340c0b21d01a94ba7ef526c775e59e37b898/minetest.conf.example#L1656
03:03 paramat     advanced settings or a line added to .conf
03:04 paramat     yes, 'projecting' not 'protruding'
03:05 paramat     set to false all dungeons will be sliced off at terrain surface level
03:05 paramat     instead of 'most of them'
03:07 paramat     setting might be 5.0.0 only
03:09 hecks       That is correct, 0.4.16 does not show any dungeon related settings (or even dung related)
03:09 paramat     "a warning for the num_emerge_threads setting" aha i was about to rewrite that anyway
03:10 paramat     as its currently too promising
03:10 paramat     could you open an issue with advice on new wording?
03:13 paramat     see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4879#issue-194766354 what 'Rogier says'
03:23 paramat     an issue isn't essential if you don't have time, i can rewrite the docs based on what you've written here in IRC
03:40 hecks       ctf full of cheaters as usual
03:46 hecks       rubenwardy, fluffy_puppy is hacking on your CTF
04:27 Ruslan1     Who is hacker
04:31 Ruslan1     hecks: who did hack on ctf
04:31 hecks       fluffy_puppy was
04:33 Ruslan1     hecks: how I stop people who did hack in server
04:34 hecks       Burn their house, beat their mother
04:34 Ruslan1     Nice one
05:12 rdococ      I hope you meant beat her in a game of CTF
05:13 ANAND       hecks: Using /report is a more efficient alternative ;)
05:13 hecks       there is one?
05:13 ANAND       Uhh... yes
05:14 ANAND       /report name reason
05:14 ANAND       Even moderators on IRC are notified
05:21 hecks       oh no it crashed
05:21 hecks       maaaaaaaaan
05:59 rdococ      Sneak peek...! https://i.imgur.com/6US1a0J.png
06:19 Xiong       Bad technic chest formspec: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/478
08:02 hecks       pr0 ctf strats https://a.uguu.se/5fcXJINkhCxC_screenshot_20190106_074706.png
08:03 hecks       This will become meta in a couple days just like bridges on the ice map
08:08 ANAND       Haha, I saw that as well
08:10 hecks       haven't lost a game with this yet I think
08:12 ANAND       It's very weak though, and can be destroyed from a distance using guns
08:12 hecks       Oh sure, I'm talking about the pit
08:12 hecks       The glass was for style because the match was going on forever
08:13 hecks       Then again even having no walls would be good; this strat is about vision
08:33 MinetestBot 02[git] 04translations@minetest.net -> 03minetest/minetest: Run updatepo.sh 133a9fe2b https://git.io/fhstB (152019-01-06T08:33:11Z)
08:33 MinetestBot 02[git] 04translations@minetest.net -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translations from Weblate 13893b5d5 https://git.io/fhstR (152019-01-06T08:32:00Z)
09:24 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Deprecate modpack.txt and use modpack.conf instead (#7892) 1370bf343 https://git.io/fhsqX (152019-01-06T09:23:35Z)
09:26 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix various bugs (Anticheat, Lua helpers) (#8013) 13a122ba0 https://git.io/fhsq1 (152019-01-06T09:24:44Z)
10:47 FFleder     Good morning, is there a List with Bricks/ Walls containing the strength of the Wall against Pickaxe / Intruders?
10:56 Krock       obsidian
10:56 Krock       I don't think so
10:59 oiaohm      FFleder: fairly much once you have a steel pick anything is mineable other than bedrock.   This is why protection mods exist.
10:59 FFleder     Obsidian Brick? I'll test this, thanks
10:59 oiaohm      FFleder: steel pick will mine Obsidian
11:00 FFleder     I try to fight against the Server lag - Some Guys break into our Area through protected Walls. Glas is a bad Idea :-)
11:01 FFleder     Actually i replaced the Walls with Planks - this help a lot
11:01 oiaohm      FFleder: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17815&sid=c492cf85cd1d6b92aa29d10a2167a203    If server is using a protection mod.
11:01 oiaohm      Players without permission cannot even burn or damage their way in.
11:01 oiaohm      Material does not matter with protection mods.
11:02 FFleder     But the Server lag seems to be my major Problem - they break in faster than the Server realize it's protected
11:03 Calinou     you can use unbreakable nodes from Map Tools to make this more difficult
11:03 Calinou     in this case, only a cheater could bypass it
11:03 oiaohm      FFleder: read that mod.   Players on servers with that mod require a client side mod.  If they break into somewhere it can be instant kick and inventorary delete and damage reversed.
11:04 FFleder     Yep, I'm on the page
11:04 FFleder     thx
11:05 FFleder     describes exactly my Problem
13:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Content store: Fix update button not working 13f5de187 https://git.io/fhsG5 (152019-01-06T13:18:40Z)
15:32 IhrFussel   I think some of you don't realize how extremely EASY it is to accidentally dig a protected zone while you stand near/in front of it and don't realize (cause your HUD shows no protection a node in front) ... you are crazy talking about kicking/deleting inventory
15:33 IhrFussel   I don't think many would want to play on such a server... an alternative would be what tenplus1 does in his protector_redo mod ... turning the player around when trying to dig a protected node...that gets annoying REAL fast
15:40 FFleder     :-) N1ce Idea
15:41 Krock       IhrFussel: then revoke interact for 20s if they violate 3 nodes within like 6 seconds
15:42 IhrFussel   That can work too but requires more complex code...likely a globalstep
15:43 IhrFussel   I once had it on my server so that it HURTS you to dig a protected node... but then the server spawn was FULL of bones within a short time
15:43 IhrFussel   So that is no solution
15:45 IhrFussel   Not to mention if you have lots of auth data on your server and many players need to lose/receive their interact...then your server could lag quite a bit
15:46 IhrFussel   Updating privs always triggers a auth save AFAIK ... it hurts especially if you still use the old files auth
15:46 Krock       then let bones appear starting from 10m around spawn
15:48 IhrFussel   10m is not enough... and there are several travelnets at my spawn...so each of the target locations might be full of bones after some time... no thanks
15:49 IhrFussel   tenplus1's idea adds almost no additional server load...just (one?) packet that tells the client to move the camera
15:50 Krock       well, for bone hunters it's very good to have it like this
15:51 Krock       free stuff
15:55 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Content store: Disable more details dialog for now (#8060) 136169eca https://git.io/fhsWP (152019-01-06T15:54:22Z)
16:22 MinetestBot 02[git] 04DS-Minetest -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix wrong code comment (#8061) 1307c1c72 https://git.io/fhsl1 (152019-01-06T16:21:04Z)
21:09 hecks       I started a singleplayer instance. Now I'm trying to connect to 127.0.0.1 in another window, but it's not working.
21:09 sfan5       did you start it from the "singleplayer" tab?
21:10 hecks       Yes, does that disable all connectivity?
21:10 sfan5       well actually there's a checkbox "Host server"
21:10 sfan5       you need to check that
21:10 hecks       Okay, and how do I prevent randos from joining?
21:10 sfan5       also minetest randomizes the port every time IIRC
21:10 sfan5       simple, you don't tell them your server address
21:11 hecks       It won't broadcast to master by default?
21:11 sfan5       it won't, no
21:11 hecks       Thanks.
21:12 hecks       inb4 sfan is just trying to trick me into hosting mibi; I'll set a password just in case >:)
21:12 hecks       Oh I see now, there's an "Announce server" box for that
21:12 sfan5       do you not have a firewall?
21:12 hecks       Who doesn't?
21:13 sfan5       the point is that you can't announce a server without forwarding the port anyway
21:13 hecks       Well then, I couldn't host even if I wanted to, not on this mobile peasant connection
21:14 rubenwardy  I doubt it would be playable over a network anyway
21:17 IhrFussel   Looks like his idea (preloading X entries) exceeds the time the engine allows for the auth handler to setup
21:17 IhrFussel   Oops wrong channel
21:17 hecks       https://a.uguu.se/4lCrxgQ5rnde_mp.png
21:17 sfan5       don't they get cold?
21:18 hecks       They're hot enough~
21:18 hecks       But todo: implement freezing to death
21:19 hecks       Why would this not be playable over a network?
21:27 hecks       Well well well https://a.uguu.se/eaCQdwvmMmFE_holdthephone.gif
21:28 hecks       I'm simulating an RTT of 80ms for both clients, and yet the animations are synced up
21:32 peaceguy    to
21:33 peaceguy    hi all
21:33 hecks       peace man
21:34 peaceguy    peace
21:34 peaceguy    :)
21:35 hecks       anyway, I thought animation timing would be the nail in the coffin but it's pretty solid apparently
21:35 hecks       rollback would've been better of course but this is the next best thing
21:36 sfan5       somewhat relevant https://i.4cdn.org/g/1546798847931.jpg
21:41 hecks       Mai Waifu
21:41 hecks       peace and anime tiddies https://a.uguu.se/1YtVEcdcg1cc_tiddies.gif
21:41 hecks       https://a.uguu.se/Qs8P5TJkdqGt_2.gif
21:41 hecks
21:43 hecks       That doesn't really look like Lua to me though, unless the cup size is meant to represent the memory footprint.
21:45 hecks       Players attached to entities "vanishing" is a client side problem, study shows.
21:46 hecks       Often, instead of displaying the player at the entity's position, the player will be displayed at 0, 0, 0
21:47 hecks       In other news, the monster spawning code still has some issues, as we're dealing with an overpopulation of jellies https://a.uguu.se/dKfUX7pN0svN_jelly.png
21:50 IhrFussel   Huh? sounds to me like active_block_range is too low to display the entity together with the player anymore -> entity (and player) unload
21:51 IhrFussel   And then the name tag is indeed showing up at 0,0,0 I think
21:53 hecks       This happens even when they're next to one another :(
21:54 hecks       yay dynlights https://a.uguu.se/Z2Rq6D7Df5Gw_dynlight.gif
21:56 hecks       Uh oh, I know this bug https://a.uguu.se/tmjJv06VAdop_oops.png
21:56 IhrFussel   But you set the entity to visible right?
21:57 hecks       Yes, it's a dummy one pixel transparent sprite if I recall right
22:00 IhrFussel   I never saw that happen on my server... players drive cars/carts/horses/boats but nobody ever reported such a thing
22:04 hecks       Maybe it's another artifact of placing the player's feet at local 0,0,0
22:04 hecks       Maybe the game tries to cull entities that are inside nodes?
22:05 hecks       Another problem; animation of one player is stuck until I tab out to the other one, and perform some action on them...
22:05 hecks       Jury's still out on whose fault this is
22:15 hecks       IhrFussel  I think the issue is that carts and other vehicles are persistent entities
22:15 hecks       while I create my dummies on the spot every time the player is rooted, which happens often
23:05 Swedneck    Hi all, i just tried minetest on mobile and i'm quite impressed!
23:07 entuland    neat
23:07 paramat     MT 5.0.0-dev or current playstore version?
23:08 IhrFussel   Swedneck, you mean 0.4.17.1 or 5.0.0-dev?
23:08 IhrFussel   xD
23:08 Swedneck    current F-Droid version
23:08 entuland    F-Droid?
23:08 paramat     prob 0.4.17.1 then
23:09 paramat     the app is going to get far better in a few weeks when we release MT 5.0.0
23:09 Swedneck    entuland: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.minetest.minetest/
23:09 IhrFussel   Version 0.4.17.21 (21) - Added on 2019-01-04
23:09 Swedneck    Basically play store for FOSS apps
23:10 paramat     yeah app '0.4.17.21' is MT 0.4.17.1
23:11 entuland    oh nice
23:12 entuland    just yesterday my youtube app stopped working because of play store going unsupported on my galaxy tab 2 10.1 - weird
23:12 Swedneck    i'm also wondering if there is an easy way to get something more.. Interesting? than the base game
23:12 Swedneck    i know there are other games and mods, but it's a bit overwhelming at first
23:12 entuland    yep, getting a grip on the vanilla one may be good at first
23:13 Swedneck    Try newpipe from F-Droid :D
23:14 Swedneck    well i've already played minecraft, i think i can figure out the base game :P
23:15 Swedneck    Could minecraft modpacks be compared to minetest games?
23:16 entuland    there are some interesting differences
23:16 paramat     the basic MT game 'minetest game' is very basic, it's not really a 'game'
23:16 entuland    one I like a lot is the height of the map - minetest ones are pretty tall and deep :P
23:16 paramat     MTG is more a base to add mods to
23:17 Swedneck    i've noticed, i spawned in what i guess is a mangrove forest but with mountains, quite a few times
23:18 Swedneck    Maybe MTG + some mods i think look cool?
23:18 paramat     MT 5.0.0 will have a new improved movement controls
23:19 paramat     *have new
23:19 Swedneck    nice
23:19 Swedneck    what are the main differences compared to current?
23:20 Swedneck    one of the things that impressed me was actually the movement controls, but maybe that's just the same as minecraft PE and i just have nothing to compare to :P
23:25 paramat     see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7126
23:27 Swedneck    thanks
23:29 Swedneck    oh shit the lower middle button is for jumping
23:29 hecks       Oh no.
23:29 Swedneck    somehow i ended up just ignoring it
23:29 hecks       <paramat> the app is going to get far better in a few weeks when we release MT 5.0.0
23:30 hecks       I realize what this means and I don't like it.
23:30 Swedneck    hmm, maybe i interpreted that wrong, the lower middle button walks backwards..
23:31 IhrFussel   Those arrow buttons will be gone in 5.0.0
23:31 paramat     what does it mean?
23:32 IhrFussel   Swedneck, I hope you like virtual joysticks as much as buttons
23:32 hecks       It means breaking changes will be harder to get through no matter how necessary.
23:32 IhrFussel   For movement
23:32 Swedneck    isn't what we have now basically a virtual joystick?
23:33 paramat     ahh :)
23:33 hecks       I can already see you're rubbing your hands, paramat
23:33 IhrFussel   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7126
23:34 IhrFussel   ^ the screenshot shows the new controls
23:34 paramat     if there'an essential network breaking change needed it should be discussed now because it needs doing now
23:34 Swedneck    i've already been linked that :P
23:35 IhrFussel   Oh oops
23:35 paramat     the new joystick will take the first touch point as the joystick 'centre', easier to use
23:35 Swedneck    ah
23:35 paramat     and easier to change direction by sliding your finger around
23:36 Swedneck    nice
23:36 IhrFussel   Almost every mobile game works like that... left screen side to move around and right screen side to look around
23:36 IhrFussel   At least every single MMORPG I tried
23:37 Swedneck    i don't play many mobile games :P
23:38 Swedneck    really only The Room series and that tower jumping game on F-Droid
23:39 Swedneck    to install a game i just drop the .zip in ~/.minetest/games right?
23:41 IhrFussel   Swedneck, in 5.0.0 there will be an ingame content "store" (everything will be free there so store is not the right word)
23:41 IhrFussel   The official name is Content DB
23:42 Swedneck    oh god yes
23:42 IhrFussel   Basically browse through mods, download and install with 1 click
23:42 Swedneck    so like FTB launcher?
23:44 IhrFussel   One sec, making screenshots
23:50 IhrFussel   Swedneck, here https://nofile.io/f/d3nHWVGDGDe/cdb_preview.mp4
23:50 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update small pines in schematic_tables.txt 13a2c9523 https://git.io/fhsKA (152019-01-06T23:48:57Z)
23:52 IhrFussel   Something better than a screenshot :P
23:52 Swedneck    and you can get both games and mods?
23:53 IhrFussel   Games, mods and texture packs
23:55 Swedneck    niiiiiice