Time Nick Message 01:01 DoyleChris happy new year 01:02 DoyleChris minetest server help. 01:02 DoyleChris i have 4.15 installed on Raspberry PI 01:02 DoyleChris and i have 4.17.1 running on my laptop 01:03 DoyleChris I moved my mods folder and world folder over and ran the command minetest --server --worldname Server and i get a error for mods installed. 01:04 sofar upgrade your server to at least 0.4.16 01:04 DoyleChris how 01:04 GreenDimond if you are running a debian-based linux distro you need to add the minetest repository 01:04 DoyleChris i have done sudo update and upgrade but it still lists 4.15 01:04 GreenDimond and install from there 01:04 GreenDimond sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable 01:04 sofar if you ask that question, you should re-evaluate your choice to run a Raspberry PI 01:05 DoyleChris well i dont have a pc 01:05 DoyleChris for the server but i have a pi3 01:05 DoyleChris sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable command not found 01:06 DoyleChris i am running the latest raspbian 01:07 GreenDimond Google how to add a repo on Raspbian then 01:11 DoyleChris i have etc/apt/source.list open but what do i add 01:22 DoyleChris im guessing it cant find the mods 01:35 DoyleChris how do i install mods on a new server 01:39 NathanS21 DoyleChris grab them with wget or git 01:40 NathanS21 cd to the mod directory and pull them from github. 01:42 DoyleChris when i installed minetest it didnt put a mod folder in home/pi/.minetest 01:43 NathanS21 I don't think it ever does, you have to create that directory yourself. 01:44 DoyleChris ok. i copied the mod folder from my pc to raspberry pi. 01:46 DoyleChris i get this 01:46 DoyleChris 2019-01-01 19:47:28: [Main]: Using world specified by --worldname on the command line 2019-01-01 19:47:28: WARNING[Main]: NodeDefManager: Ignoring CONTENT_IGNORE redefinition 2019-01-01 19:47:28: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /home/pi/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/init.lua: 2019-01-01 19:47:28: ERROR[Main]: /home/pi/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/init.lua:40: attempt to index field 'settings' (a n 01:47 NathanS21 You did upgrade the Minetest version correct? 01:47 NathanS21 It looks to me like it is seeing the code from the mods you just copied over. 01:47 DoyleChris i cant get it to upgrade 01:48 NathanS21 that might be the problem. Settings might be a newer feature that 4.15 doesn't have. 01:48 NathanS21 Could you possibly build a newer version on the PI? 01:49 NathanS21 I know the build time would probably be fairly long, but that would be an option to get the newer version. 01:49 NathanS21 I build the dev version every week with a script on my desktop, and it only takes a few minutes. 01:50 NathanS21 Obviously a desktop has a lot more processing power than a Pi3. 01:52 NathanS21 Not sure if you've seen this post on the forums. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15732 but somebody has full instructions on setting up a server on a pi 02:02 DoyleChris i got through the first part 02:18 DoyleChris can i build it from linux and run it on the pi 02:18 DoyleChris because i have linux on a usb stick that i can run 02:20 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add large cactus seedling 136688ddf https://git.io/fhqJW (152019-01-02T02:18:50Z) 02:23 NathanS21 You might be able to. 02:23 NathanS21 I've never tried that. 02:23 NathanS21 As long as they are both debian based I'd think there is a good chance it should work. 02:24 NathanS21 just make sure you use the build_in_place true option when building so you get all the binaries and stuff in the same folder. 02:26 Quiark it won't because it's a different CPU 02:26 Quiark you'd have to crosscompile which is hard to set up 02:27 Quiark just compile it on RPi, who cares if it takes half day 02:37 DoyleChris im trying it 02:37 DoyleChris fatal: unable to connect to anonscm.debian.org: anonscm.debian.org[0: 194.177.211.202]: errno=Connection refused anonscm.debian.org[1: 2001:648:2ffc:deb::211:202]: errno=Connection timed out 02:39 NathanS21 can you connect to that link with a different computer? 02:39 NathanS21 maybe the address has changed? 02:42 NathanS21 when I visit that link it says, The alioth.debian.org service is discontinued. Its replacement is a GitLab instance at salsa.debian.org. 02:42 NathanS21 Migration documentation is available on the wiki, and an archive of VCS repositories can be found on alioth-archive.debian.org. 02:42 NathanS21 2018-05-31. 03:05 DoyleChris so i found a tar of minetest-debian-0.4.17.1+repack-1_bpo9+1 03:07 DoyleChris do i need to compile it from that 03:11 DoyleChris im so confused 03:19 NathanS21 Not sure. 03:20 NathanS21 pull the source code from github and build from that. 03:20 DoyleChris im so confused with building it 03:21 DoyleChris every step i get errors 03:22 NathanS21 the first time I built from source I had to get a bunch of dependencies and extra programs to build it. 03:22 NathanS21 https://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest 03:23 NathanS21 Once I had the dependencies it was just as simple as running cmake and make with some args to build it. 03:23 NathanS21 not sure how different it is on a pi though. 03:24 DoyleChris well bed time ill try again tommorow 03:24 NathanS21 Good luck 03:25 DoyleChris ill be back tommorow same time 03:25 DoyleChris quit 03:57 oiaohm I was having a horrible idea. What if there was a mapgen that instead of building a nice world. Just randomally put blocks all over the place so you had to 3 block jump at least off the start line. 03:58 swift110 sup folks 04:06 GreenDimond oiaohm: I think that exists 04:07 GreenDimond https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20655 04:09 Quiark was playing MineClone 2 with GF yesterday ... start location is on gravel so mobs everywhere 04:09 Quiark huddle together in house with a big wall and moat the whole night 04:10 Quiark then thunderstorm at daytime, mobs remain ... so we spend 20 mins not playing, just waiting for it to pass 04:10 Quiark in short, I need a rocket launcher 06:40 Ruslan1 Hello 06:40 jas_ hi 06:40 Ruslan1 Hi 06:40 jas_ Hello! 06:40 jas_ how are you? 06:41 Ruslan1 Good 06:41 jas_ Great! 06:41 jas_ how's minetest? 06:41 Ruslan1 Good 06:41 jas_ me too, good to hear 06:41 jas_ just cookin' some cobble up myself, you? 06:42 Ruslan1 What cobble 06:42 jas_ i'm thinking this time instead of compressing cobble with a craft recipe, to make a machine that compresses it and maybe give goodies at some cost of cobble. i did make gravel drop some stuff, which i think is neat. 06:42 jas_ mm, regular cobble to stone 06:42 jas_ tho i added recipes for making dirt_with_grass, etc, so i might for mossycobble as well. mmmm mossy cobble 06:43 Ruslan1 Like I craft it 06:43 Ruslan1 Give me link 06:43 jas_ yeah for example. i guess it'd be grass+cobble=mossycobble, but i haven't made that recipe yet. dirt+grass=dirt_with_grass, tho 06:44 Ruslan1 Nice 06:44 jas_ https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20006 06:44 jas_ !server glitchtest 06:44 MinetestBot jas_: Glitchtest | dcbl.duckdns.org | Clients: 1/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.0.0-dev / Glitchtest | Ping: 124ms 06:44 jas_ and dirt+dry_grass = dirt_with_dry_grass, and i think i did snow, too, but also need the rainforest stuff, new dirt with stone pebbles, etc. 06:46 jas_ now, as i step away from the laptop, i think it'd be nice to have an /away chat command to somehow indicate i'm afk 06:46 Ruslan1 Nice server 06:47 Ruslan1 Is there spawn in your server 06:48 Ruslan1 jas_: is there spawn in your server 07:02 jas_ oh yes, brb coffee 07:03 jas_ back 07:03 jas_ (haha, i love irc. yes, there's spawn, and a /spawn command that is always available. there is no /killme.) 07:04 * jas_ puts on the choons 07:05 jas_ now, the /spawn command uses spawn.on_spawn, which comes from paramat's `spawn' mod 07:05 jas_ same for the [Spawn] button on inventory (depending), and respawn if you haven't used a bed to set it otherwise 07:05 jas_ of course, new players also use spawn.on_spawn. this has resulted in the same spawn location and i've built it up into something of a maze 07:06 jas_ there is no `static_spawnpoint' set for the server 07:09 jas_ (the [Spawn] button on the inventory can either go to spawn.on_spawn, or beds' respawn, and can be toggled in the terminal with `set spawn_switch') 07:30 Ruslan1 jas_: I won’t able to join your server 07:31 jas_ no, i don't think so, without a new client. there's a development version, you can find it on the forum if you're interested. 07:31 jas_ who knows, maybe it will be out "soon" :) 07:34 jas_ (you can't play mt4 servers with the new version, and you can't play mt5 servers with the current version.) 07:38 Ruslan1 I know 07:38 jas_ on the other hand, my inv is full and i don't have a backpack, so i think i will add compressed cobble via craft afterall 07:39 jas_ and then do goodies like exploding the stones when you dig it, and making a machine to get goodies out of compressed cobble and gravel automatically. i still have to do enchantment machine and worktable for bigger craftgrid (lol) and tool repair. 07:39 jas_ do u have mt5? 07:39 jas_ i'm on the server now, maybe there's something the matter 07:42 Ruslan1 I will get minetest 5.0.0 07:43 jas_ you can get sfan5's builds, which are fancy i think, or maybe the automatic builds from gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/pipelines 07:43 jas_ it's for windows. on linux i build from source. i tried it on android, new version, on my server it's lol 07:43 jas_ mm, i might try again. i dunno how well if at al it'll work. 07:44 Ruslan1 how it work 07:45 jas_ android version? the walkie compass is covered by buttons that didn't really work for me anyway. then again mobile minetest has always been kinda a pain 07:46 Ruslan1 i don't have android 07:46 jas_ oh ok, well then are you on windows? i been using the build from gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/pipelines ... there's a cloud all the way to the right, click it and select architecture 07:47 jas_ or use sfan5's build: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1523 08:32 oiaohm jas_: I normally don't have major problems getting mossycobble. Cobble near water produces mossy cobble. 08:32 jas_ yep, that's how i generally farm it. but i'm thinking of convienence. dirt_with_grass was an obvious as it's impossible otherwise. 08:33 jas_ i mean, you can try to trigger dirt -> dirt_with_grass, but sometimes there's not light, etc. 08:33 jas_ just a thought anyway, not sure if i will or not. 08:33 oiaohm jas_: warped recipe would be furnuse taking bucket of water + cobble then producing mossy cobble. 08:33 jas_ but i have other obsurdities like colored glass, and now i feel like i have to make colored glass doors because of it! haha 08:33 jas_ oooh 08:33 jas_ i will write that down, thanks oiaohm 08:35 jas_ i guess i'll have to modify furnace? 08:35 jas_ i'm going to work on a book reader first, where i can store books in a chest-like node and flip through the books it contains. 08:36 jas_ (and i keep meaning to redo the placeable books mod. bbiab) 08:36 oiaohm jas_: it would require modify furnace or making something like furnace that consumes water. 08:37 oiaohm jas_: or needs to be in water. 08:37 jas_ hm, furnace around water? it's a thought, i'll add it to the book where i wrote this down ;D 08:37 jas_ i was thinking of a "state" for the furnace 08:37 jas_ but i guess that's similar/related 08:38 oiaohm jas_: like a mossy cobble generator that has to be in water but like lets you put like 99 blocks in you wish to convert. Making mossy cobble production more compact and less pick consuming. Does not have to make it any faster. 08:38 jas_ ohhh 08:39 jas_ ok got it i think, i'll write it all down and give it a try at some point 08:39 * jas_ gets up to stretch 08:41 oiaohm jas_: another varation would be if the mossycobble generator did not need to be in water but require 2 buckets of water inserted to convert that you could take back out. (yes unlimited water stunt inside the box) 08:42 oiaohm Craft methods do need to line up to world production methods a bit. 08:43 oiaohm that would make mossycobble generator quite pricely because you are not willing to do the cheaper method. 08:48 jas_ i see, good point. the ironing out of the details always seem to come later, however. 08:49 jas_ anyway this is a good machine for me to make, reminds me of Dragonop's clay crafter. i will make a furnace-like machine that requires buckets of water/river_water to make mossycobble automatically. 08:50 jas_ i do plan on doing some stuff in terminal related to machines and automation, eventually. somehow i lost my saved warps on my mechanisms, and it occurs to me i may not be checking protection on them hehe 08:52 jas_ i made it so when you place an intercomm on default:mese, it swaps to default:mese_ which has a light source of default.LIGHT_MAX. i'd like to look at connected nodeboxes, i haven't tried them yet, for something like mesecons power lines. 08:54 jas_ and i'll have to get back to trying to convert protector redo to AreaStore afterwards. i'm still ironing out my version of mobs, which doesn't use abms to spawn entities. 08:54 * jas_ launches vim and starts on mossy cobble generator machine 10:40 jas_ phew, got it working i guess. now to rob dragonop's claycrafter textures 10:44 jas_ here's the diff: https://gist.github.com/jastevenson303/7ecfc5d3b391005bfc578465083bcf53 <-- i'm not proud 10:48 jas_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHEOF_rcND8 10:48 MineCityBot_ [You0,4Tube] 10Title:4 Edward Sharpe & The Magnetic Zeros - Home (Official Video) | 10Uploaded by:4 Rough Trade Records | 10Date:4 17/05/2010 | 10Views:4 65,493,723 | 10Likes:4 97.54% | 10DisLIKEs:4 2.46% 10:48 jas_ !title 10:48 MinetestBot jas_: Edward Sharpe & The Magnetic Zeros - Home (Official Video) - YouTube 10:59 jas_ i miss him. https://imgur.com/a/hOg3Viu 11:09 jas_ https://github.com/jastevenson303/Glitchtest/commit/3e9e4a5e059d13c626024849d7273fcea937e84d 11:09 jas_ all done for now, i guess. the craft recipe is very funny, considering the texture! 11:10 jas_ oiaohm: thx 11:40 MinetestBot 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Remove extra empty strings in craft recipes (#2281) 13ccf03ea https://git.io/fhq8r (152019-01-02T11:40:32Z) 13:00 Xiong jas_ Help me out. Don't understand why you are making heavy weather of mossy. Dead simple to dig it after its turnef mossy through being wet. I've never wanted so much I felt I needed to automate that but a simple nodebreaker setup on a slow timer should work fine. 14:43 hecks any ideas on how I could simulate a laggy server locally? 14:43 majochup no 14:44 Krock hecks: enable pipeworks, technic and the entire techpack 14:44 hecks ha ha 14:44 hecks technic is still less intensive than mibi 14:44 Krock or add for-loops with a million iterations each server step 14:44 hecks but uh, I meant network lag 14:44 Krock mibi? 14:44 Krock ah 14:44 hecks whatever I'm making 14:44 hecks but I wanted to test lag in mt in general 14:45 hecks I've played some servers and every single one of them had hit detection and feedback issues 14:45 Krock I'd suggest to generate a random number from 1 million to 10 millions and: for i = 1, rnd_number do end 14:45 hecks regardless of where the server was located; I've heard that the netcode is just bad 14:45 Krock that inside register_on_globalstep 14:45 hecks but maybe there's some lua bandaids that can be applied, this is what I mean to research 14:48 sfan5 hecks: linux can put artificial latency on your localhost 14:48 sfan5 if that is what you mean by "laggy" 14:48 hecks I think I found something for windows that does this 14:51 hecks oh yeah, it works 14:56 hecks and it's nigh unplayable on 150ms, geez 14:57 hecks I'll wait until CSM to complain about that, though 15:00 hecks and then I found out that minetest does not have any api to check a player's network quality 15:05 Calinou you can decrease the dedicated_server_step in minetest.conf if you run a server on good hardware 15:05 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1409-L1412 15:06 Calinou hecks: try playing with other server settings too, see https://gist.github.com/Calinou/683cb0748efe867be6e18f86f206a6b7 15:06 Krock Xiong: käpenblaubär would like to have an area of yours in creatively survival 15:06 Calinou some of them may not be ideal for fast machines 15:07 hecks I already managed to generate the lag I'm looking for 15:07 hecks I'll reiterate to make it perfectly clear; I'm simulating a server that runs fine but with network lag 15:07 hecks sadly 50ms ping is barely playable and anything above is bonkers 15:07 Calinou I mean, perceived lag could probably be reduced if servers ran better settings 15:08 Calinou also, how is 50 ms barely playable considering Minetest has client-side physics? 15:08 hecks anything that isn't movement or digging related is lag dependent 15:08 hecks my server settings are already optimized to all hell so no need to worry about that 15:10 hecks client side physics don't help with this: https://a.uguu.se/HpvQPieDqkZE_hit.gif 15:12 hecks I know some ways to make it better but some of it requires CSM, and some of it at the very least a small PR 15:15 hecks this is pretty important, it's the #1 reason why every MT server ever has terrible mobs and pvp 15:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome 15:15 hecks lol 15:16 Calinou yeah, but most people don't play Minetest for the combat :P 15:16 Calinou (nor Minecraft for that matter, by the looks of it) 15:16 hecks tell that to the CTF server 15:16 sfan5 minetest pvp is even worse than minecraft though 15:17 hecks if combat wasn't garbage then maybe there would be something else to do other than farm and build sparkling ghost towns 15:17 Calinou the CTF server is very much casual PvP still 15:19 hecks I don't mean to give minetest Quake's netcode, though it's very much possible 15:19 hecks but it would be nice if mobs didn't damage me by hitting the spot where I was standing two seconds ago 15:19 hecks or players, for that matter 15:29 oiaohm hecks: there is a issue that you can dig though protected blocks that is kind of the same problem as the combat fault. 15:30 hecks How in particular? 15:30 hecks Do you mean that you can predict-dig the block, go past it and it reappears but too late? 15:30 hecks Not exactly the same problem as the combat fault if that's the case, but netcode related all the same 15:31 hecks the issue is that digging does have prediction, and physics simulation can depend on it 15:32 hecks Protection is such a common feature that I wouldn't be against it being built into the binary in a more robust way 15:32 oiaohm hecks: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17815&sid=2fb461cf705f29d0406ff9ce5e08fc00 its what this mod set protect against. That with client you can dig a block/blocks that are protected then walk though before the blocks are respawned. 15:32 hecks Yeah, I guessed as much 15:32 hecks This could be fixed with a server side sanity check, even from pure lua 15:33 oiaohm this here is a client and server side fix. 15:33 oiaohm Fix the client to make sure it in fact targeted a correct item. 15:34 oiaohm Server side fix handle when client is not. 15:34 hecks What I'd do is: Make the client aware of protection information, make the server check if a player just walked through a block they shouldn't have 15:34 hecks Without a PR, the server side check can be done in pure lua 15:34 oiaohm hecks: yep that is that mod. 15:35 oiaohm It is fairly much the same thing with pvp check that when applying damage that target was still at that location. 15:35 hecks I'll admit that I'm out of the loop on CSM capabilities so far 15:35 oiaohm Or at least was at that location inside a reasonable time. 15:36 hecks but something like this should actually be implemented on the C side, imo 15:36 oiaohm Its roughly the same problem. 15:36 oiaohm I remember in halflife fps with lag how you could be shot and killed in two totally different locations at the same insant by 2 different players. 15:39 oiaohm hecks: depending on the first person shooter location engine depends if you can be shot a few seconds before and killed. But I think minetest mods are not applying damage to map locations instaed applying it straight to player. 15:43 hecks No, but because there isn't any prediction of the physical position, and because monster and player hitting isn't done using hitboxes or raycasts 15:43 hecks you end up being able to "punch" players that are actually out of your range 15:44 hecks and similarly, I see monsters looking at where I was a second earlier and I'm suddenly taking damage 15:44 sfan5 player hitting is done using hitboxes *and* raycasts on the client side 15:45 sfan5 none of that needs to apply to mobs though, mod authors can choose to implement that however they want 15:45 Krock although it's easier now due to the Raycast API 15:46 hecks yes, but it's the lamented "punching" system you're describing here, it's less than ideal 15:46 hecks I suspect that mobs are just raycasting, but the server doesn't quite realize in time that I've moved 15:46 hecks knowing my ping and velocity would let the server make a better guess 15:46 Krock would it be ideal to implement an AI to counter-fight the latency and lag? 15:46 oiaohm sfan5: and that is kind of open to halflife abuse. I remember where players use to introduce lag with half life so they could drop multi hits resulting in fatal. 15:47 sfan5 hecks: raycasting is more work and wasn't possible until recently, so I doubt that 15:47 hecks I'm not sure about lag abuse but I've seen some badly inconsistent behavior in CTF 15:47 sfan5 it might be that your old position gets used to determine whether you can take damage, but most likely without raycasting 15:47 Krock there was some kind of raycast but it was also very slow 15:47 hecks it's like everyone's DPS and range depends on ping, and that's bad 15:48 Krock -> PR pls 15:48 hecks so it's old mob mods that are making things even worse, then? 15:48 Krock yes 15:49 hecks I wouldn't be talking about this if I wasn't in a fixing mood, as much as I hate compiling MT 15:49 sfan5 oiaohm: not sure if the old source engine also uses the tick based system, but I don't think Minetest is suspectible to that kind of exploit 15:49 hecks spent a few days playing various servers and every single one of them was ruined by this 15:49 Krock but well, there's a line_of_sight API 15:49 sfan5 punch cooldown is measured when the packets actually arrive, no matter the amount of lag 15:49 hecks I'd like to at least allow mods to implement rollback and dead reckoning 15:49 hecks that requires the server to know the player's ping 15:50 hecks then I could, for instance, make a projectile spawn a little in front of the player to compensate for the delay 15:50 hecks or make the animation start a few frames later 15:50 hecks similarly, hit detection could take into account where the player *should* be, not the player's current server side raw position 15:51 oiaohm sfan5: the gap between firing the cooldowns in halflife were nto altered. It was the fact you could have walked behind a solid wall computely out of their line of sight yet they were still shooting you and kill you because they lagged you position to their client with halflife. 15:51 hecks this will require generic physics query api, but it's easy, just expose whatever irrlicht provides 15:51 sfan5 oh that's a different problem 15:51 hecks line of sight bullshots are kinda a consequence of the fixes I'm proposing 15:51 hecks I consider them a lesser evil 15:51 hecks some engines have real bad bullshots, like Source, and that's bad 15:52 hecks but Quake tier bullshots are acceptable if it comes with better prediction in general 15:52 hecks in any case, you can just choose to not implement hitscan weapons, or nerf them 15:53 oiaohm sfan5: basically there need to be server validation of shots so that a person cannot client side cheat. 15:53 hecks yes, any reasonable game would do that 15:53 hecks I think halflife/CS is a pretty pathological example of lag compensation gone wrong 15:54 oiaohm hecks: and early halflife is example of why not to have 100 percent client side processing of shot logic. 15:54 hecks I don't think an example is necessary for that, it's just a stupid thing to do in general 15:55 hecks and I don't think any game does that, besides a certain obscure online shooter with P2P networking I've played 15:55 hecks if there's a server, it's its job to validate 15:56 hecks but we're getting ahead of ourselves here; let's fix melee bullshit first, railguns can come later 15:59 Calinou lag compensation will always advantage the attacker, it's a compromise developers did for good reasons (i.e. not frustrating people who initiate combats, rather than camping :P) 15:59 Calinou >and I don't think any game does that, besides a certain obscure online shooter with P2P networking I've played 15:59 Calinou do you mean Cube/Cube 2? ;) 16:00 hecks No, but if that's serverless, then it probably suffers from the same problems 16:00 hecks in any case, netcode is a solved problem, I don't see a reason why it should suck in MT 16:00 Calinou it has a server but it follows a "thin server, fat client" model 16:00 Calinou well, Minecraft has similar issues 16:00 Calinou I have yet to see a Minecraft-style game with really good networking 16:01 hecks fast paced shooters should be playable up to 120 ping, slower games up to 200 16:01 hecks on this scale, MT ranks as slow as hell 16:01 hecks there's just no reason it should feel this broken 16:01 oiaohm hecks: serverless maybe. If all clients are validating all other clients actions serverless can be just as good as server. 16:02 hecks serverless games have horrible lag abuse issues 16:02 hecks UNLESS they're lockstep, but that's limited to RTS pretty much 16:03 oiaohm hecks: or they auto cutt of those with too high of latancy is another that some serverless does. 16:03 oiaohm hecks: limtis the lag exploit level a lot. 16:03 hecks it's not possible because in a serverless/star topology, everyone has a different ping to everyone else 16:04 oiaohm Some have a tollerence level. 16:04 hecks and what happens is that the BR with 200 ping calls you a lagger and starts a votekick against you, when everyone else is green to you 16:04 oiaohm I did not say it was friendly. 16:04 hecks but I digress, thankfully MT has plain ol' servers 16:05 oiaohm Once you make serverless not exploitable to lag attacks you can have the everyone dos from game due to failure to latency agree. 16:05 oiaohm Plain servers makes problem a lot simpler. 16:06 hecks yes, that's what happens in Starcraft for example 16:06 hecks but what happens then is that the lagging guy gets autokicked 16:06 oiaohm Starcraft with anti cheat protections you can see the all way kick happen at times. 16:07 oiaohm Basically it beleves everyone is lagging and boots the lot. 16:07 hecks well with a game like that, it's impossible to cheat the game state because fiddling with it is just a plain old desync 16:08 oiaohm This is basically learn from what others have stuffed up. 16:08 hecks Dude, are you using a translator? 16:09 oiaohm No my english is just horrible. 16:09 hecks back on topic, server netcode solutions can be applied to minetest 16:09 hecks client-server netcode problem was solved in 1995 pretty much 16:09 hecks some helpful hacks were invented later, but the basic implementation has not changed 16:10 hecks There's one thing I need to know though 16:10 hecks does minetest do whole tcp round trips or is it using udp like every sane game ever 16:12 oiaohm hecks: minetest is udp https://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol 16:15 oiaohm hecks: do note the RELIABLE implementation in that protocol. 16:15 hecks most games using udp have some guaranteed delivery layer for certain info 16:16 hecks overall, it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with the protocol 16:16 hecks I guess the problem is that everything is implemented in a naive way from the gameplay's side of things 16:17 hecks except *maybe* player movement 16:19 oiaohm Player movement is even someways naive like the ablity to dig though protected blocks problem. 16:19 oiaohm and then walk there. 16:19 hecks That actually means that prediction is a thing and it's working, though 16:19 hecks The problem is that everything else is done naively and doesn't account for prediction 16:20 jas_ Xiong: so make a "nodebreaker" machine? OK 16:20 jas_ i did it mostly for sentimental reasons. 16:20 hecks though I won't know for sure until I set up two instances of MT side by side, actually simulating how two players on a server see one another 16:20 jas_ i didnt need a lot of mossy cobble, actually HAHA but right now i'm making it fill an empty bucket if there's water_source at pos.y -1 16:20 jas_ lol 17:32 hecks One more question and I'll be out of your hair for now; does minetest treat localhost any different from a remote server? 17:33 hecks such as turning off certain reliability measures 17:41 Xiong jas_ Sorry I'm confused. Are you familiar with various small machines built with pipeworks and mesecons? Cobble generators, ice generators, and the like? My remarks don't seem to meet yours. 17:59 IhrFussel I think it is actually not fair to set the server step too low because people who are far away and therefore have a ping of 100+ ms will have a HUGE disadvantage if the game refreshes too quick...that is my opinion 18:00 Krock why? the delay is there but they will receive it anyway 18:00 jas_ Xiong: no, not really. just from hearing other people talk about them 18:01 IhrFussel Krock, cause players with low ping then receive the actions quicker and can react to them better...sounds logical to me 18:01 Calinou yeah but that's how it is in literally every online game to date :) 18:01 Krock IhrFussel: a high server step doesn't change that 18:02 Krock you cannot "buffer" the latency 18:02 Calinou also, there's no such thing as client-side movement prediction in Minetest, as all movement is handled client-side in Minetest 18:02 Calinou only dig/placement are actually predicted, since the server has authority on whether the player can do that 18:02 IhrFussel Imagine someone having a ping of 20ms and server step at 50ms ... the player with a ping of 20ms is able to receive the 50ms steps quicker than a player with 100 ms no? 18:02 Calinou it also prevents building/digging too far away by default, but many (most?) servers end up disabling that because the anticheat has lots of false positives due to lag 18:03 Calinou (disable_anticheat = true) 18:03 Calinou IhrFussel: no matter the server step, they'll receive information quicker 18:03 IhrFussel But what if the server made TWO steps before the client with slow connection receives 1 ... you see what I mean? 18:04 Krock IhrFussel: that may even happen when you have a 10ms ping but lose packets 18:04 Calinou the client will receive them in-order if the server sent them as ordered 18:04 Krock slow does not mean packet loss 18:04 Calinou if it's just marked as reliable, they may receive them out of order 18:05 IhrFussel I have a player who plays from NZ so their ping is ~ 400 18:05 Calinou if it's not marked as reliable, they may not receive them at all, and you should handle that as gracefully as possible 18:05 Calinou and yeah, there's no correlation between packet loss and latency 18:05 Krock Calinou: FYI: all but the player position sending packets are reliable 18:05 Calinou you may have a decent ping, but players in competitive games will hate you if you play on a 4G connection :P 18:06 Calinou Krock: yeah, I heard that 18:06 Calinou it makes sense in a Minecraft-style game, no? 18:06 Calinou what else could be made unreliable? 18:06 IhrFussel I think you still don't get what I mean... imagine someone having a ping of 500 and server step at 100 ... now before the client receives the 5 steps at least 500 ms passed while other clients received their info every 100ms 18:06 Calinou higher ping will always be worse, no matter what you do 18:07 IhrFussel The slow client gets X steps at ONCE 18:07 Calinou all you can do is hide it the best you can 18:07 IhrFussel Good luck trying to react to several motions at once 18:08 Krock Calinou: HP updates, if these were a separate packet 18:08 Krock ofc talking about the other players. the damaged player needs to have a erliable packet 18:08 Calinou yeah, maybe 18:08 Calinou IhrFussel: they don't get those steps at once, they'll get those steps every 100 ms or so 18:09 IhrFussel How? If every packet takes 500ms to travel 18:09 hecks You can always implement nudge if you're concerned about fairness 18:10 hecks but from what I've seen, the most fair option is to just let people play at the best ping they can 18:10 Calinou yeah, few games implement "fair ping" systems 18:10 hecks it's usually perceived as a bullshit delay 18:10 Calinou fighting games are probably the ones that do the most 18:10 hecks not all of them 18:10 hecks fighting games can use nudge/rollback instead 18:11 Calinou or that, yeah 18:11 IhrFussel I mean...the server list doesn't help with choosing a 'good' server...good in terms of connection from you to the server ... and until people realize that the ping bar in the list is actually JUST the ping to the server list, they probably put much effort into the server and just stay on it 18:12 hecks oh yeah, it sure would help to actually see your damn ping 18:12 jas_ lol 18:12 hecks if the ping bar is actually a ping from the server to the master, not to you, then holy shit minetest what are you doing 18:12 IhrFussel I wonder what takes the devs so long to just REMOVE that bar... they talked about it several times 18:12 Calinou it's shown as "rtt" or something in the debug bar (press F5) 18:12 Calinou but it's not updated often, and probably not very accurate 18:12 hecks why remove it... just make it work like it's supposed to? 18:13 IhrFussel hecks, they can't...privacy concerns 18:13 jas_ the argument was that "the serverlist would have to ping my machine" 18:13 Calinou and yeah, the ping bar in the list isn't really meaningful since it's relative to the master server 18:13 hecks no, the serverlist wouldn't 18:13 jas_ or something. which i still don't understand. 18:13 hecks my machine would have to ping the server 18:13 Calinou you only communicate with the master server using HTTP, not any other protocol 18:13 Calinou (same for the servers) 18:13 Calinou so direct pinging isn't possible 18:13 Calinou it sounds easy, but it's not easy :) 18:13 hecks there are servers displaying your IP and country for everyone to see as soon as you log in, and you're worried about ping time checks? 18:14 jas_ anytime a client got the server list they'd need to ping all the servers on it? 18:14 jas_ not me, i think it was one or two people 18:14 hecks yes 18:14 hecks wasn't a problem 20 years ago, why would it be a problem now 18:14 Calinou well, the ability to ping a server without being connected to it is just not implemented in Minetest 18:14 Calinou it might be difficult to implement given the current networking model, that's all 18:14 Calinou or nontrivial, at least 18:14 jas_ aha 18:14 jas_ the real reason! :D 18:14 hecks can't you just... ping? 18:14 hecks the client already has the address 18:15 Calinou ICMP ping isn't universal, many servers can block it, or the client's ISP can mess with it 18:15 Calinou plus, it's not a reliable measurement if the server is overloaded 18:15 hecks if the ISP messes with it, there are far worse problems at hand here 18:15 sfan5 icmp is also hard to do from an userspace application without special privileges 18:15 hecks ISPs usually mess with pings the other way 18:15 sfan5 on linux at least 18:16 hecks I hate to bring up the "works in quake" argument, but it works in quake :) 18:16 IhrFussel 'ping' doesn't use ICMP? 18:16 Calinou Quake and derivatives have a whole protocol dedicated to getting server information without being connected to it 18:16 Calinou we don't, and given the current amount of contributors, I doubt it will be added soon 18:16 hecks I mean, goodness, the client already can connect to the server anyway 18:17 IhrFussel You can obviously run 'ping' without being a superuser or admin ... so couldn't we simply use whatever 'ping' uses? 18:17 hecks what would be so hard about implementing this 18:17 hecks bonus points; the master server can somehow do it 18:17 Calinou the `ping` command behaves differently depending on the OS 18:17 hecks if the client can't ping the servers then OH WELL just don't display the bars! 18:17 Calinou oh, and that makes master server implementation harder too 18:17 hecks 99% of the time it will be able to 18:18 Calinou it needs to ping servers, so it can't just be a small HTTP server receiving announce requests 18:18 Calinou it's currently a small Python + Flask application 18:18 hecks well then moving that to the client is a win win 18:18 Calinou but we'd still like to have a Web interface for viewing current servers :) 18:18 hecks and the server already has code to support ping checking, just hack it to let clients do it...? 18:18 Calinou (which is entirely doable, but it's more work) 18:19 sfan5 Calinou: the master server already pings servers 18:19 IhrFussel If server owners are that concerned about being ping'd then we could either send them a "info" that our client just pinged them or we could let servers opt-out of it... 18:19 Calinou yeah 18:19 hecks case closed then 18:21 hecks now I'd like to hear more about that "movement is client side" thing, just how deep does that rabbit hole go? 18:21 Calinou IhrFussel: there shouldn't be a performance concern, it'd represent a tiny part of the entire server's bandwidth 18:21 IhrFussel The MT community is VERY VERY extreme when it comes to privacy... one example is that some insist on being able to DECIDE what server sent mods run on their client 18:21 Calinou well, when your server is announced on the list, it's public 18:21 Calinou if you don't want that, don't announce it :) 18:22 hecks The concern is about the client autopinging every server in existence when you open the "online" tab 18:22 hecks Just turn it off by default and I'll be happy 18:22 IhrFussel So...we need to add a button to each server "Check Ping" 18:22 hecks Not to each, but "Refresh All" 18:23 hecks however a small "Refresh" icon in a server's line would be nice too 18:23 hecks There are worse privacy issues in this game than that I'm afraid 18:23 IhrFussel Right now servers only send their info (connected users, uptime, age etc) every 5 minutes to the list 18:24 IhrFussel I think it was 5 minutes 18:24 hecks which is alright for a master announce 18:24 hecks just provide said info to clients on request and everyone's happy 18:24 hecks the server will have to deal with, whoa, a couple extra packets every now and then 18:25 hecks this almost reminds me of the matrix multiply debate :^) 18:25 IhrFussel I wonder if clients could even cause a 'micro' performance issue with sending too many ping requests 18:25 hecks Limit it to one every two seconds and it'll be fine 18:25 hecks I can DDoS your server just fine without using the server browser 18:26 IhrFussel We could simply add a button timeout 18:26 hecks for instance, by initiating fake connections 18:26 hecks far more damaging than someone spamming refresh 18:26 IhrFussel Nope, that was fixed 18:26 hecks Then initiating "real" connections :) 18:27 hecks In any case, you gain nothing by not providing those 16 bytes of data on request 18:27 Calinou usually, the number of pings a client sends per second is capped 18:27 IhrFussel Yeah clients only count now towards the limit when they receive the CS_HELLO packet I think which is the moment before joining 18:27 hecks Even telling the client to bugger off is more data than that 18:27 Calinou (50-100/second is a reasonable limit when there's a lot of servers) 18:27 Calinou however, you may want to ping a server several times to get a more accurate estimation 18:27 Calinou Xonotic defaults to 3 pings per server because of that 18:28 hecks See, I told you it works in quake 18:29 IhrFussel I think an argument was that closed-source games don't have the same 'privacy responsibility' as open source games 18:29 hecks quake is free software 18:29 hecks and its hundreds of derivatives 18:29 hecks my privacy is already more violated by the initial ping to the master server 18:30 hecks which I believe occurs as soon as I launch MT 18:30 jas_ hecks did you see the server side movement pr? 18:30 IhrFussel As soon as you open the Play Online tab AFAIK 18:30 jas_ i like quake 18:31 hecks I didn't 18:31 IhrFussel Or as soon as you announce your server 18:31 hecks I was too busy arguing with paramat about matrix multiplies 18:31 jas_ oh i like the movement and physics, strafe jumping 18:31 Calinou skill-based movement is where it's at :D 18:31 Calinou unfortunately, it's not very popular in modern games :( 18:31 hecks thing is, uneffing minetest's netcode, movement, adding CSM and all that jazz is kinda intertwined and I'd like to see it done as a single effort 18:31 jas_ ah well 18:32 hecks if you people like quake so much, play cpma with me 18:32 jas_ what do you think of sneak jumping? 18:32 hecks which version? :) 18:33 jas_ i have a version that uses old_move+sneak_glitch when sprinting. 18:33 hecks I think shift ladders were bullshit but I like using sneak to grab onto ledges. 18:33 jas_ normally it's new_move/sneak_glitch off and if sprinting then old_move/sneak_glitch on. there's a scout class that always has sneak_glitch on tho 18:34 jas_ i think there's something there if you adjust the gravity, or something. it's awkward now, but i suspect it could easily change. 18:34 jas_ i feel it at times 18:34 hecks I'd love nothing more than to delete all of it and move it to lua 18:35 hecks so that I can code whatever movement I want, even strafejumping if I want to 18:35 jas_ my server is Glitchtest if you want to try it. you have to hold sprint to sneak jump, tho. 18:35 hecks I'll check it out 18:35 jas_ or github.com/jastevenson303 18:35 jas_ yeah i think it can be done hecks 18:36 jas_ there's a lot of hurdles, though. one thing that comes to mind, have you ever noticed when jumping along a particular diagonal, the player's position gets quantized? 18:36 hecks it can't be done *right* until SCSM is up and running 18:36 jas_ true 18:36 jas_ i been waiting a long time, for that reason especially 18:36 hecks I want all the things that are coded into the exe moved into minetest_game 18:36 hecks I'm sure there's many contributors that disagree with me here though 18:36 jas_ but only to make the sneak_jump mod faster, i guess. i'm using minetest.after lol 18:37 hecks tried getting on glitchtest but it requires some ancient version 18:37 jas_ because the server is always asking if the player is holding down sprint, whereas that'd be better in the client 18:37 jas_ ok i'll rebuild it. i built it one or two days ago 18:37 jas_ yesterday i think, they kinda blur into one another 18:38 jas_ hm, it says it's already up to date 18:38 jas_ Minetest 5.0.0-dev-c6f784f4 (Linux) 18:39 hecks I'm already making minetest do things it's not meant to https://a.uguu.se/aposLhKvdsWW_moesouls.gif 18:39 hecks but add networking to this and it falls apart, I need better netcode and SCSM 18:39 jas_ cool gif! 18:40 hecks sadly minetest is screaming and begging for mercy running this 18:40 jas_ i'm gonna try a hitscan weapon soon, i already have a projectile. but the hitscan, i am predicting it would be better client side also 18:40 hecks not performance wise but bugs wise 18:41 jas_ oh 18:41 jas_ well at least it's not struggling performance wise 18:41 jas_ what are the bugs? 18:41 hecks you can't do good hitscan if there isn't even a goddamn get_player_ping() api function to do nudge properly 18:41 hecks bugs... i've basically ran into obscure minetest bugs from day one of making this 18:41 jas_ did you try CTF? i did once or twice for a minute 18:41 hecks bugs related to entity attachment 18:41 jas_ i see 18:41 hecks yes I did, CTF is what made me spend all day today ranting about netcode on the IRC 18:42 hecks let me continue; attachment bugs, asset handling bugs, weird performance issues, mesher limits 18:42 jas_ oh ok. well client side stuff would have to help there, i'd imagine. i wonder if there's not a newer feature in 5.0.0-dev that allows for better hitscan.. if that makes sense 18:42 hecks lighting issues which I made a PR for and it's probably still in limbo because of bureaucracy 18:43 hecks add to that hundreds of lua side workarounds for missing engine features 18:43 jas_ wow 18:43 jas_ well keep up the good work, i'm sure it's appreciated 18:43 hecks by whom I wonder 18:44 jas_ :) 18:44 hecks https://a.uguu.se/oNjgQXxcmePR_anim.gif 18:44 hecks you have no idea how hard it was to make minetest do this 18:44 jas_ there's a bindable mouse pr. i really wish since day one to use right mouse button to jump. sometimes, minetest just sucks. 18:44 hecks have a character's SAO step forward with the animation 18:45 hecks I parse the friggin' .x file with lua, extract curves, write it back, load it 18:45 jas_ geeze, yeah i'd think there should be a better way 18:45 hecks then wrap it in an animation flowchart not unlike shiny new modern engines 18:46 hecks now, this is not a gripe I have with minetest, I'm fine with having to code that 18:46 hecks but then imagine, I keep adding animations to this character, only for the server to crash one fine day 18:46 jas_ oh right, the multiplayer thing 18:46 hecks Reason? File too huge to send in one chunk 18:47 hecks minetest cannot send assets bigger than 16ish MB I believe 18:47 hecks and doesn't do any compression when sending 18:47 jas_ if they have downloaded the (sub)game prior, this is one possible workaround 18:47 hecks Attachable hair and clothes? Nope, attachment is broke 18:47 jas_ haha 18:47 hecks gotta model it all onto her 18:48 hecks and use texstrings, which thankfully are pretty powerful 18:48 hecks oh right, and the root movement thing 18:48 hecks you'd think a game engine would have a set_velocity() function 18:48 hecks minetest does... it doesn't work for players, though! 18:48 jas_ this is a funny issue i made a while ago i want to show you 18:48 hecks Or, what do you do to root a player in place and not let them move, for instance, when stunned? 18:49 hecks Do you set movement speed to 0? Try doing that, see what happens... 18:49 hecks actually with your skill based movement thing going on, you might want to set movespeed to 0 and play with it 18:49 hecks hint: it turns off friction 18:49 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6448 <- not that long ago 18:49 jas_ wait what 18:50 jas_ i do know, you cannot make player's physical!! 18:50 jas_ this drives me batty 18:50 hecks try it, it's bizarre 18:50 jas_ i dunno about this setting movespeed to 0, i will try it. can u elaborate? 18:50 hecks so I attach the girl to a dummy transform... 18:50 IhrFussel hecks, if you set the movement speed to 0 they will 'flicker' around...the only reliable way to make them stop is attaching players to entities 18:50 hecks well it turns off friction and control 18:50 hecks whatever velocity you had, you'll keep it 18:50 hecks and you'll slide in that direction until you hit something 18:51 hecks maybe it can be used to make Tribes like sliding 18:51 hecks yes I know that, wisehead 18:51 hecks and I do that, and guess what, every now and then the player model just vanishes for the duration of the attachment 18:51 hecks 100% random, just a one in 65536 chance of it happening 18:51 jas_ that's a good tip thanks hecks, i'll try it out 18:52 jas_ it's really fun, btw, to make player's physical 18:52 hecks even better, every now and then the server will tele me back to a position I was in 30 seconds to 10 minutes ago 18:52 jas_ but if you try to sneak jump, or even regular jump i think, the player just keeps jumping, climbing into the air, depending on lag 18:52 hecks said position is always a position where I was attached to the dummy transform at some point 18:53 hecks I tried using server side code to detect abrupt changes in position like that... it doesn't pick it up 18:53 IhrFussel It is bad in general because as soon as you leave the 'active_block_range' the entity unloads...and since the player is attached to it they unload too 18:53 hecks cue the effing x files theme at this point because I don't know, man 18:53 hecks I don't move around too much attached to an entity 18:53 hecks re-read my rant before you chime in again, man 18:54 jas_ yeah attachment really seems to suck 18:54 jas_ it reminds me of the helicopter mod. great mod, i really liked it, so i added it to the server i had at the time 18:54 hecks oh, falling out of a heli randomly 18:54 jas_ and was surprised to see how much it broke in multiplayer, yeah 18:54 IhrFussel NO, I'm talking about when you walk AWAY from an attached player they will disappear together with the entity as soon as you are X mapblocks away (depending on your settings) 18:54 hecks okay, that's even worse 18:55 jas_ it would warp to strange places. and i dunno, i've tried attachments a few times and was left pretty confused 18:55 hecks but I'm the only one on my server... 18:55 hecks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQoRXhS7vlU 18:55 IhrFussel MT cannot have all entities loaded at all times...the server would die instantly 18:55 hecks thank you for this wonderful insight my friend 18:56 jas_ sometimes i think minetest doesn't really remove objects. it just says it does. 18:56 hecks it does it very very inconsistently 18:56 jas_ that's what that theme song reminded me of 18:56 hecks whenever it feels like it, basically 18:56 jas_ haha 18:56 IhrFussel Set active_block_range to something high..like 50 and then spawn a bunch of mobs on the map in different areas...I bet the lag will make it unplayable 18:57 jas_ oh and attaching sounds to objects is interesting too, and try stopping a fading sound, or ramping it back up. heh, nevermind that. 18:57 hecks Ihr, are you doing this on purpose 18:57 hecks I'm about to get an aneurysm 18:57 jas_ can you set it to 50? 18:57 jas_ tempted to try 18:57 hecks anyway, I raise you a better one 18:57 hecks make an entity 18:57 hecks make sure that entity can be moved, it can be a cart that you pull, for example 18:57 hecks now attach another to it 18:58 hecks take the cart and ride away somewhere... 18:58 hecks ...x files theme plays 18:58 hecks pretty much every time i try to do something with entities in minetest 18:58 hecks we're in Area fruggin' 51, anything can happen! 18:59 jas_ yes that sounds about right 18:59 hecks so I got this mob system... 18:59 jas_ yea? 18:59 hecks I do all the loading and unloading manually just to avoid being at minetest's active block system's mercy 19:00 jas_ i removed the abms from mobs_redo personally 19:00 jas_ o 19:00 hecks Still, I loiter around in the same area for enough time and the amount of mobs seems to grow... 19:00 jas_ you mean something else, sorry 19:00 hecks DA DA DA DAAAAA 19:00 hecks i t i s a m y s t e r y 19:01 jas_ oh in mobs_redo? 19:01 hecks well I don't use ABMs and when I heard that that mob system is using ABMs, I was like, wow what are you doing 19:01 hecks no in my system 19:01 jas_ oh ok 19:01 IhrFussel Another problem is that active_block_range controls the ABM range too ... if at least ABM and entity range would be separate maybe servers could make more entities visible on the map 19:01 hecks You see, active_block_range does not actually control active block range. 19:02 hecks It doesn't process entities per mablock, but multiplies this distance by 16 and uses it as an euclidean radius 19:02 IhrFussel I set mine to 1 and it indeed only loads entities that are ~16 nodes away 19:02 hecks in any case, I actually have a "virtual mapblock" system and load and unload entities using it, just to avoid dealing with this bullshit 19:03 jas_ the default is already low at 3 19:03 hecks also I don't use ABMs, but instead find floors 19:03 jas_ i have an insivible spawning node, it's super cheesy 19:03 hecks it's still fast because it only runs when the player's "active" mapblock changes 19:03 hecks your spawning node can and will be destroyed by players 19:03 hecks use my approach, it's foolproof 19:03 hecks not as expensive as it sounds 19:03 jas_ https://github.com/jastevenson303/Glitchtest/blob/master/mods/mobs/nodes.lua 19:04 jas_ haha 19:04 jas_ (i'm not proud) 19:04 hecks Ouch 19:04 hecks Hell is other people's code! 19:04 jas_ no, no, i wrote that lmao! 19:04 jas_ anyway 19:04 jas_ it's a lot of fun, minetest. but it's got a lot of... issues 19:05 hecks https://pastebin.com/8WGEDUva 19:05 Cornelia Well, until recently, it was only version 0.4.* !! :P 19:05 hecks Yeah, and we're on 5.0 now! 19:05 jas_ my dream is to learn c++ and possibly see about libpd + minetest. and procedural sounds/music. haha 19:06 hecks What a pace! Good job, developers! They must be coding 24/7 running on ramen and black coffee ;-; 19:06 hecks All you'd have to do is make luajit's ffi work in minetest 19:06 hecks I wonder if it already does 19:07 hecks and my dream is not having to use c++ to make things work in minetest lol 19:07 jas_ i dunno what that is, hecks, but it's very pretty code 19:08 hecks It's virtual mapblocks 19:08 jas_ neat 19:08 hecks if I didn't apply super clean OOP I would've tripped over the volume of my code long ago 19:08 jas_ i will show one last thing before i go 19:09 jas_ in this mod, the sneak jumping, the physics... it's tied to the HUD! hahahaha https://github.com/jastevenson303/Glitchtest/blob/master/mods/sneak_jump/init.lua 19:09 jas_ bbfn 19:09 hecks wait what 19:09 hecks don't go just yet because I need you to explain 19:09 hecks point me to the "wtf" line of code if you can 20:21 hecks I did some more exhaustive testing 20:21 hecks the netcode situation is not as dramatic as I thought; a dodgy 135ms connection is still quite playable 20:21 hecks the issue lies entirely in net-naive gameplay code 22:32 MinetestBot 02[git] 04maxis27 -> 03minetest/minetest: autojump setting: Remove repeated doc line (#8041) 13c26eab6 https://git.io/fhmtC (152019-01-02T22:32:19Z)