Time Nick Message 05:01 Xiong Eight hours? Please... someone say hi? 05:05 VanessaE foo 05:30 User29872 bar 05:33 VanessaE at this hour?! the bar is empty, all we have left is foo. 05:38 User29872 Plenty bars open here. Where do you think we order the foo! 05:38 VanessaE heh 06:15 Xiong I figured out autosort. Only works when I'm not looking. 06:15 Xiong But... 06:17 Xiong I wish for violet wool. I have a block each of red, yellow, orange, green, blue... all made from flower-direct dye 06:19 Xiong I have violet dye made in three ways: crafting, extraction, and mixing red and blue. None color wool violet; all color wool magenta; none are selected by UI when I choose violet wool in the crafting guide 06:20 Xiong ... only the plain wool is moved to the grid. 06:20 VanessaE that's all minetest_gam 06:20 Xiong After those tests I successfully stacked all three sorts of violet dye. 06:20 VanessaE minetest_game* 06:20 Xiong ? 06:21 Xiong Magenta is not violet. How do I fix this? 06:21 VanessaE you don't. 06:21 VanessaE it's broken. 06:21 VanessaE you'd need a newer copy of minetest_game 06:21 Xiong Man broke it, man can fix it. 06:22 VanessaE you run 0.4.16, right? 06:22 Xiong Fixed in 5.0.0? 06:22 VanessaE it should be fixed there, yeah./ 06:22 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1940 06:22 Xiong It's an incentive. 06:22 VanessaE (and three follow-ups at the end) 06:24 Xiong Tldr. I got the gist. Why not rm the simple dye mod from my lashup? 06:24 VanessaE because that'll break a lot of stuff. 06:25 VanessaE a number of things depend on unified dyes, and that depends on minetest_game dyes. 06:25 Xiong Suggest adding that into UD. UD can be a replacement for, not depends on. 06:25 VanessaE and a number of other things directly depend on mtg dyes as well 06:25 VanessaE can't./ 06:25 VanessaE not in the cards. 06:26 Xiong It's political. 06:26 VanessaE no, it's mod coding 06:26 VanessaE it'll screw stuff up if I do that. 06:26 Xiong Man broke it, man can fix it. 06:26 VanessaE you're not listening. 06:26 Xiong I scorn social inertia. 06:27 * VanessaE wanders off 06:29 Xiong You, VE, are much better than most at maintenance programming; I think you'd get it. Periodically code must be refactored. People shout no. They must be shouted down. Backward incompatibility is the reason for major version increments. 06:29 VanessaE this isn't refactor. this is "hey, we should combine ncurses with glibc". 06:30 Xiong Without clear refactoring, accepted conventions become boat anchors 06:31 VanessaE what you want done can easily be fixed *in minetest_game*. it can also be fixed by an external replacement for the dye mod. it *cannot* be properly fixed from outside one of those two options. 06:31 VanessaE and I have zero control over mtg. 06:32 Xiong All Linux IMO should be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. There's stuff in there... interface, not code itself... left over from the sixties. 06:32 * VanessaE grumbles 06:33 Xiong 70 yo conventions aren't legacy. They're museum displays. 06:33 * VanessaE grumbles louder 06:33 Xiong Because what? You needn't agree. Hardly anyone does. 06:34 VanessaE no one's talking about linux (ncurses/glibc was just an example, first thing to come to mind). 06:34 VanessaE this is minetest. 06:34 Xiong I'll be proven right in a couple hundred years. 06:34 VanessaE what you propose will break dependencies all over the place unless done the way I said -- and as far as I'm aware, that's the case in 5.0.0 06:35 VanessaE so please just stop digressing 06:35 Xiong Eh? 06:35 Xiong I urge refactoring of minetest. I say the gain is worth the pain. 06:36 VanessaE you asked for purple wool. now you're talking about tearing apart 70 years of Unix history.....without acknowledging what I actually said. 06:36 Xiong You said your fellow wizards are invested. Noted. 06:36 VanessaE I said no such thing 06:38 Xiong I see past the surface. You can too. You do, when you please. It's a choice 06:38 * VanessaE grumbles some more 06:40 Xiong Refactoring is a choice and the cost often appears prohibitive. Refactoring is put off until it becomes unthinkable. Then a new team starts from scratch. Then the battle, which may go either way. Eventually though, the war has only one outcome. There's always another new team. 06:41 Xiong Sorry VE. I can't be another person 06:41 VanessaE and this has zero to do with refactoring anything. 06:42 Xiong I have spent my professional life speaking heresy. Nobody wants to hear it. I'll go dig coal now. 06:42 VanessaE what the actual fuck are you even talking about? hersey? HUH?? 07:55 Xiong Sorry. Went to dig coal, hit kalite, now going to studyup 07:59 exio4 minetest is being heavily refactored 08:00 exio4 a few months ago it didn't use any C++11 feature to begin with, just to give a small-big example 08:00 Xiong I have been forced to understand society from the outside. Also I connect facts in unusual ways. So I've seen a pattern, as usual. The type is religion but it's found in political parties, bridge clubs, engineering teams... and especially in software teams. A set of decisions become habit, then orthodoxy. To question orthodoxy is heterodoxy... usually called heresy. 08:01 Xiong exio4 I welcome our new robot overlords with open arms. About time. 08:01 VanessaE ... 08:01 exio4 what the fuck did I fall into 08:02 Xiong 2359 minetest is being heavily refactored [++] 08:02 Xiong I'd stand on my chair and applaud. 08:06 Xiong VanessaE Truly truly I wish I were otherwise. I've tried hard to accept who I am but tried harder to be someone else. I should have spent my life just being who I am but it annoys so many people and I'd rather not. 08:07 VanessaE ... 08:07 Xiong I'm serious. 08:08 Xiong I may be a fool but I'm sincere. I tried lying when I was a teen; it's a skill I lack. 08:09 Xiong Anyway, I'm a heretic. I do try to answer all questions honestly. Now gotta go studyup. 15:24 jas_ hello 15:24 jas_ !mod 15:24 MinetestBot jas_: Prevent new accounts from joining [nonew] by taikedz - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19720 18:32 DI3HARD139 Quick question. Anyone remember what caused that mouse input problem from 0.4.15(I believe it was this version)? Just reinstalled windows on a new ssd and it started again... Version is 0.4.17.1 18:32 DI3HARD139 I forget what setting caused it. 18:34 Krock disable DPI scaling, compat settings 18:34 Krock or search for the issue on GH 18:35 DI3HARD139 Figures it was the 1 thing I usually forget to check.. :P Thanks! 18:43 Krock ^^ 19:07 scr267 VanessaE: Does unifieddyes still have the convert_classic_palette function or is that gone? 19:08 scr267 Got this error as a mod tried to call it: 19:08 scr267 ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'bobblocks' in callback LuaLBM::trigger(): /home/.../.minetest/mods/bobblocks/blocks.lua:339: attempt to 19:08 scr267 index field 'convert_classic_palette' (a nil value) 19:09 VanessaE pretty sure I got rid of that a while back 19:09 VanessaE current bobblocks shouldn't even be calling that. 19:09 scr267 ok 19:10 scr267 I seem to have 4 or 5 mods that still call thta 19:10 scr267 that* 19:10 scr267 I'll have to double check and make sure they are all up-to-date 19:10 scr267 thanks :) 19:11 * VanessaE checks her archive 19:13 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ grep -r "convert_classic_palette" Minetest-related/mods/ |grep -v dreambuil|grep -v attic 19:13 VanessaE no results. 19:13 VanessaE easiest way to get up-to-date on that is to just grab the latest dreambuilder build and pull what you need from it :) 19:14 scr267 VanessaE: Good idea :) 19:15 VanessaE of course. coming from me, arme' :) 19:15 VanessaE jkfkosxhjjgkhjisphgpuiohuosa 19:15 VanessaE of course. coming from me, aren't they all? :) 20:23 scr267 VanessaE: HAHA, Yep :) 21:14 p_gimeno I see that LuaEntitySAO:get_entity_name() is deprecated. What is it replaced with? 21:25 p_gimeno hm, browsing the logs, it seems it's deprecated since early 2012 in e82a76e 21:30 swift110 hey all 21:30 swift110 does anyone run a minetest server on a raspberry pi 21:32 VanessaE MegaF does/did 21:33 swift110 oh i see 21:33 swift110 I was considering that since I have a few 21:34 VanessaE it's good enough for basic minetest_game with a handful of extras, but it doesn't work out very well for anything complex. 21:34 VanessaE don't run dreambuilder on one :P 23:18 swift110 oh i see VanessaE in that case that changes my mind 23:19 VanessaE heh 23:21 VanessaE well it's just that a RPi only runs at 1.4 GHz and has 1 GB RAM on it.. 23:22 VanessaE not exactly a powerhouse. though they're good for embedded stuff of course (it's becoming common, for example, to use one over wireless as an intermediary to a 3d printer in another part of the house/shop, in lieu of printing over USB or via SD cards) 23:26 swift110 Thats cool 23:26 swift110 I wouldn't mind using one of my laptops to do it then. 23:26 VanessaE (at least those are the specs I found for a RPi 3 B+) 23:26 swift110 yeah i kow 23:26 swift110 know 23:27 VanessaE a laptop should do just fine 23:27 VanessaE of course, cooling is a concern 23:28 VanessaE but if you're just shoving some old otherwise-retired laptop into a corner, screen closed, to act as a server, a small desk fan should take care of that 23:29 swift110 yeah 23:29 swift110 what would you recommed for specs 23:30 VanessaE well using dreambuilder as the benchmark, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM ought to be fine. 23:30 VanessaE that'll be enough to run a complex server with some lag. 23:31 VanessaE I'd suggest 3+ GHz for best results though 23:31 VanessaE see here: https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats-daily.html 23:31 VanessaE there are six servers running 23:31 VanessaE and it only peaks at 8 GB 23:32 VanessaE two run dreambuilder, the others are much more conservative 23:32 swift110 oh nice 23:32 swift110 so dreambuilder I take is a complex mod 23:32 VanessaE modpack 23:33 VanessaE looking at `top`, my creative world is right at 2 GB resident 23:33 VanessaE the survival world, which is actually more complex, is using about 1 GB 23:33 swift110 ok so 6 servers wat are the specs of each of them 23:34 VanessaE they're all running on the same machine. 23:35 VanessaE two run dreambuilder, with minor tweaks as needed for each (the creative one, for example, lacks technic), two are basically just minetest_game with a few dozen mods to make things more interesting, one runs rnd's skyblock, and one is a nostalgia server meant to act like 0.2.x/0.3.x (probably the leanest server in existence) 23:38 rubenwardy also note that newer CPUs even with lower clock speeds tend to be better than older CPUs 23:39 rubenwardy so clock speed isn't that great of a measure 23:40 VanessaE indeed 23:40 VanessaE but it's still useful 23:41 VanessaE I mean no one's gonna confuse a first-gen P4 with a Xeon in terms of speed per GHz :) 23:45 swift110 lol 23:45 swift110 so an dualcore machine with 3 gb ram would be fine 23:53 VanessaE if it's a recent processor sure :)