Time Nick Message 00:02 Ruslan1 Hi Bullkang 00:09 Bullkang Hi Ruslan1 00:09 Out`Of`Control Ruslan1: yes 01:20 scr267 Fedora29: Ok, I saw the log. Did you modify IRC's init.lua file like I mentionned? 01:20 Fedora29 yes 01:20 Fedora29 3130 ie.package.path = ie.package.path.. 01:20 Fedora29 3130 ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.1/?.lua".. 01:20 Fedora29 3130 ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.1/?/init.lua" 01:20 Fedora29 like that 01:22 scr267 No the idea was to get it to look for 5.3 01:23 scr267 but anyway, hold on a sec... I'm trying to remember how this works... 01:23 Fedora29 ohhh so switch to 5.3 01:23 scr267 Do you have this file? /usr/lib64/lua/5.1/socket/unix.so 01:23 Fedora29 scr267, yes 01:26 scr267 sorry actually I meant this one: /usr/share/lua/5.1/socket.lua 01:29 Fedora29 sorry back 01:29 Fedora29 scr267, yes 01:29 scr267 do you ave this package? compat-lua-devel 01:30 Fedora29 scr267, nope, installing now 01:43 Xiong Pilcrow182 What say? 01:44 jas_ !server amhi 01:44 MinetestBot jas_: No results 01:44 jas_ i picked a funny name i did 01:46 Pilcrow182 hey Xiong and jas_ , how you guys doing? 01:46 jas_ hi pilcrow i'm good thx how are you? 01:47 Xiong I am somewhat recovered from my labors, thank you. Have you eaten? 01:49 Pilcrow182 Xiong: Nope, never, I use photosynthesis :P 01:49 Pilcrow182 But seriously, I should probably eat something again soon; it's been a few hours... 01:51 Pilcrow182 Also, It's only 8pm here, but for some reason I'm super tired. 01:53 Xiong Always tired. Tough titmouse, I say. So long as I can work, I can eat. 01:54 Xiong So what about this controls-actions-effects mapping? 02:03 Pilcrow182 I don't know. There seems to be some confusion in what the engine calls 'use' and what you call 'use'... I've always thought of left-clicking with tools to be 'using' them 02:03 Pilcrow182 ^ and that is what the engine calls it 02:03 Pilcrow182 whereas right-clicking on chests, furnaces, etc is something else. 02:04 Pilcrow182 I've been calling that something else 'interact', since you are literally interacting with that node 02:04 Xiong Okay. 02:05 Pilcrow182 but protection, player privs, etc. also use 'interact' to mean ANYTHING that can change the game world -- placing, digging, accessing chests etc. are all considered interact there... 02:07 Xiong That is good. Each user has a personal set of controls and we don't want to ask. Each pair of things, wielded and node, may react in various ways. But there must be a fixed set of actions in a layer of abstraction between these extremes. 02:07 Pilcrow182 so I don't know what to call the specific interaction with node inventories (chests), toggling states (doors), and so on. There should be another word, I'm just too burnt out right now to come up with one... 02:08 Xiong Oops. That *was* good. Let's not have the word "interact" to mean something in a critical path. 02:08 Xiong I'm hoping we're not inventing. I'm trying to find out what already is. 02:10 Xiong If a standard machine with default controls issues a leftck, what... invariant action name... is executed? 02:12 Pilcrow182 depends on whether it's the target or the object used to punch. if you're hitting a node with a tool, it could potentially trigger both the tool's on_use function and the node's on_punch (assuming both are defined) 02:13 Xiong My understanding now is "use" with the "on_use" callback... and docs will say "dig" and "punch" as well. Often there's a distinction among digging and punching that involves how long the use action continues but that involves relative hardness of the two items. 02:14 Xiong Yesyes, there's a muddy stretch there too in that both subject and object may assert sth about the action. *handwave* 02:15 Xiong The $64 question is: What is the parallel to rtck? 02:16 Xiong Generally, wielding an item and rtck places the item into the world, removing it from the hand. But also it may open a chest, regardless of what's in hand. 02:18 Xiong I'm looking for the *word* so I can do sth when this happens... other than open a chest. 02:19 Xiong Specifically, I'm hacking the technic drill to change modes. Since nobody needs to use a drill to open a chest. 02:21 Pilcrow182 hmm, I think it'd be the on_place function. 02:21 Xiong I have looked in the bucket code. Simple code, yeh? Dig to fill, do the *other thing* to empty. But what I see confuses me. 02:22 Xiong I am happy to call the *other action* (by default rtck) "place". 02:24 Xiong Thank you, I'll return to the drill hack when I'm able. Now I'm trying to cut dreambuilder down so it will run on my phone. 02:26 Xiong Not worried the full install will break my phone. Concerned lest the meltdown of all possible mods loaded at once sink my phone into the San Andreas and trigger the Big One. 02:26 Pilcrow182 yeah, the bucket's code is confusing in general, lol. But I've defined an item's on_place to basically do what you're talking about. If you right-click with an item that has its on_place defined, it'll trigger that function. 02:39 Xiong Cool. But the drill... can I register a place callback for when it is the hammer, not the anvil? The chest opens when placed because it is the anvil. (To be clear, when a chest is wielded and placed on air, the chest is the hammer). 02:40 Xiong The hand "places" onto the existing chest and it opens. 02:42 Pilcrow182 err, the way minetest defines it, on_place is acted on the node you're wielding (the 'hammer') whereas on_rightclick is acted on the node you're placing things *onto* (the 'anvil) 02:43 Xiong When I was a new player it took me a week to learn how to construct a chest atop another. Now it's second nature so the basic screwiness of what I just wrote.... 02:43 Xiong on_rightclick() is a thing? 02:44 Xiong So the chest defines... I imagine... place to orient the thing front face. 02:45 Pilcrow182 so right-clicking while wielding the drill would trigger the drill's on_place (like you're trying to 'place' the drill as if it were a node), and right-clicking on a chest that is already placed would trigger the chest's on_rightclick (since you're right-clicking *on* the chest) 02:45 Xiong ... and also on_rightclick to open the already-chest. 02:45 Xiong Rightright. 02:46 VanessaE on_rightclick activates for the wielded item, BUT you have to check if the target (anvil) has an on_rightclick defined, and call that in place of the code you're normally run 02:46 VanessaE if the wielded item has no on_rightclick, then the target is activated anyway. 02:47 * Xiong grabs the glowing gemstone and rams it into hilt of Sword of Coding 02:47 VanessaE NO!!!! 02:47 VanessaE not that one! 02:47 VanessaE *boom* 02:48 Xiong This finally makes sense. I can easily factor the drill mode code into a local function and register the new callback. 02:48 VanessaE sorry for stepping in late :) 02:49 Xiong First I need to write a test mod that beeps on place. 02:51 VanessaE if both the "hammer" and "anvil" have on_rightclick's defined, only the hammer's callback is triggered. The anvil won't activate. but at the start of your hammer's on_rightclick, you can read the node def of your target, see if it has an on_rightclick, and run that code and exit instead of running the rest of the hammer's code. 02:51 VanessaE that's how that usually works anyways 02:51 Xiong Now the fog clears. The drill is wielded so user attempts to place it... which is absurd, so change modes. 02:51 VanessaE bingo 02:52 VanessaE but see above, too 02:52 Xiong Do not want to fool with on_rightclick at all. The drill may as well place on air. 02:53 VanessaE fair enough 02:53 VanessaE then stick to the on_place callback 02:53 Xiong It is exactly because player never places a tool that my head got tangled. Almost never. Place a bucket. 02:54 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: there is something I wasn't completely clear on, related to this topic, and you might know. If the node's on_rightclick and the tool's on_place are both defined, do they both functions get executed simultaneously or does one take precedence over the other? 02:54 Pilcrow182 -they 02:54 VanessaE Xiong: yeah, but if you think of the empty bucket as "digging" a water node, and the full bucket as "placing" a water node, it makes perfect sense 02:56 VanessaE Pilcrow182: if memory serves, only the wield's on_place is triggered - you have to explicitly check if the target has an on_rightclick, and run that if appropriate. 02:56 VanessaE (by "target" I mean the pointed_thing) 02:56 Xiong I agree VE. Which only contributed to the cable snarl. Now it's clear. Place drill to change modes. As you wrote yesterday, we can think of that as changing drill bits. 02:57 VanessaE yup :) 02:58 * VanessaE takes some snips to Xiong's cable snarl 02:58 VanessaE >:) 02:58 Pilcrow182 Xiong: heh, yeah, on_place doesn't really make sense for tools and craftitems, since only nodes can actually be placed into the world, but I'd guess the callback is named that way for consistency's sake (since a node can obviously also have an on_place that happens when you're trying to place it). 02:58 Xiong Meanwhile... installed dreambuilder, trying hard to cut it down to phone size. Not easy. 02:58 Pilcrow182 IIRC, nodes were created before tools when Minetest was in its early days. 02:59 VanessaE Xiong: the easy way is to start with nothing enabled. then turn on basic materials and unified dyes since lots of stuff uses those. THEN start turning on other stuff. 03:00 VanessaE Pilcrow182: perhaps, but the modding API didn't come until well after both were well-established. 03:00 Unarelith btw, why in Minetest on_use is on left click? 03:00 Xiong VE, I would have liked to see more hierarchy in the modpack. Why flatten streets and mesecons but not technic? 03:00 VanessaE Xiong: engine limitations. 03:00 Xiong ? 03:00 VanessaE Xiong: having a modpack within a modpack is not supported by the engine 03:01 VanessaE and, even technic is "flattened" in the same way 03:01 Pilcrow182 Really? I've never tried that, but I wouldn't think recursive modpack loading would be that hard to implement... 03:01 VanessaE technic is a modpack, but technic/technic is just a (really complicated) mod 03:02 VanessaE make sense? 03:02 VanessaE Pilcrow182: idk if it would be hard but since it ain't supported, the point is moot :) 03:02 Xiong Okay well (1) that could be better (2) how about an index, directory, or other plain text catalog... outlining? 03:03 VanessaE Xiong: I don't understand. 03:04 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: Wait. Actually, modpacks CAN be within other modpacks. I've done that for organizing my unfinished and still kind of chaotically organized game, https://github.com/Pilcrow182/dustworld 03:06 Xiong Erm. Dreambuilder is a container of named items. Can you not supply a hierarchical, human readable packing list? Some of the mods in there are obscure components of important modpacks. Others are undocumented abandonware you've cleaned up, given fresh rags and a bowl of soup. 03:07 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: mods/__primary/mesecons in my game works fine, for example (__primary is organized as a modpack of the 'most important elements' of the game, while mesecons is obviously set up as a modpack all its own, *within* __primary)... 03:08 Xiong The chainsaw I'm dragging through your impressive circus is not well guided. The clowns are throwing elephant dung at me. 03:08 VanessaE Pilcrow182: when placed into $USER/.minetest/worlds/foo/worldmods, the modpack-within-modpack fails, or it used to 03:08 Pilcrow182 hmm, interesting. I wonder why it would fail in worldmods but not when it's part of a game? 03:08 VanessaE I use the worldmods method on my servers so that I can avoid conflicts and fucking about with world.mt, which is why dreambuilder is so-organized 03:08 VanessaE idk. 03:09 VanessaE maybe it works fine now, but at one time it didn't. no real point in changing now :0 03:09 VanessaE :) 03:09 Xiong But the packing list? 03:10 VanessaE eh, I suppose I could add something to my script to generate such a thing. never really thought about i. 03:11 Xiong Right now I have four folders counting the live one under mods: keep, dunno, trash. All populated. 03:12 VanessaE um....why? 03:12 VanessaE why not just enable/disable mods in the menu? 03:12 VanessaE you don't have to delete/move mods. just control things in the "configure" screen of the world you want to play 03:13 Xiong I'll tell you what. When I get the minimax puzzle solved, I'll let you know. You can release a daydream version for miserable pudknockers singleplaying on phones. 03:13 Xiong The configure screen of which you speak is unusable. Most of the main menu sucks on Android. 03:14 Xiong *Everything's* illegal in Massachusetts. 03:14 VanessaE lol 03:14 * Pilcrow182 wonders if that screen has been fixed in 5.0.0 for Android yet... 03:15 VanessaE don't you mean Taxachusetts? 03:15 VanessaE :P 03:16 Xiong It's a local saying. Just as bad in PA. I'd sit in the car when Uncle Bill went into the state store for a bottle. I think it's still illegal to shoe a horse on Sunday. 03:17 VanessaE Xiong: if you can't use the configure screen, consider firing up your favorite text editor (Jota is good, free, and ad-free) and modify your world's world.mt file. 03:17 VanessaE heh 03:18 Pilcrow182 I had to read that twice. I read Texachusetts at first. Like, Texas + Massachutsetts. Hmm, or halfway in between the two. Yep, that works, Tennessee is now Texachutsetts... :P 03:18 Xiong Using DroidEdit. Seems okay. Do not like to modify files if I can avoid it... without git running. 03:19 VanessaE sounds like one of the dumbass laws we had back in kansas. back in the early days when autos started to displace horse-and-carriage, a law was put into effect in Wichita, KS that required anyone driving a car to have someone walk ahead of them holding a lantern. just to not spook the horses, so the legend goes. I think that law is still on the books. 03:19 VanessaE world.mt is altered by the world config screen 03:19 Xiong In Texachusetts, it's illegal not to carry a firearm to church. 03:19 VanessaE tax, not tes 03:19 VanessaE jsgohwpoeushg[ourhou[0hgu[o0qw 03:19 VanessaE tax, not tex* 03:20 Xiong Now you've done it. 03:20 VanessaE ? 03:20 Pilcrow182 I know, just joking around with my own misreading... :P 03:20 VanessaE I didn't do nuthin! 03:20 * VanessaE hides 03:21 Pilcrow182 double-negative. If you didn't do nothing, then you did do something... :P 03:21 * VanessaE hides better 03:21 VanessaE I didn't not do nuthin'! 03:23 Xiong One brother goes to Texas, one works the farm in Vermont. They meet after many years. Tex: "Ah built a real spread! Why, I get in my truck at dawn, drive all day never cover the whole piece." His brother coughs, spits: "Yep. I hadda truck like that." 03:23 VanessaE haha 03:25 * Xiong bows 03:25 * Xiong cranks chainsaw and back to it 03:26 VanessaE first a sword, now a chainsaw... 03:27 VanessaE that poor tablet............. 03:44 Pilcrow182 Xiong: after creating a test mod myself, I realized on_place is *mostly* what you want but isn't perfect: it only triggers if you're actually pointing the tool at a node. Here is my test code: https://pastebin.com/NaQyb3iG 03:46 Pilcrow182 ^ that test mod never outputs the "player just tried to 'place' the tool while not targetting anything" line, so I assume it only works if you're actually pointing at something 03:48 Pilcrow182 And VanessaE, you were right. right-clicking my test node above WHILE weilding the test tool only triggers the tool's output, not the node's. 03:48 VanessaE toldya :) 03:48 VanessaE see also, how unified dyes' airbrush works 03:48 VanessaE on_rightclick checks, protection, ... 03:48 VanessaE imho it's a good place to start when making a tool that doesn't dig 03:49 Unarelith imo right click should be the default 'on_use' of Minetest 03:49 Pilcrow182 I believed you, but I still wanted to test it myself with a small mod. I think I knew that at one point anyway, but I'd rather be SURE... ;) 03:49 Unarelith doesn't make sense to eat an apple you just punched, just because the same key does two things 03:51 Pilcrow182 eh, I disagree, Unarelith. For example, you 'use' a pick to mine, and that's by left-clicking. Likewise, 'use'-ing an apple is how you eat it, whereas right-click is used for setting it down as a node (same as building) 03:52 Unarelith no, you don't "use" the pick, you "mine" with the pick 03:52 Unarelith however when you rightclick a node, you actually use it 03:52 Unarelith place/dig/use priorities are weird in MT imo 03:54 Pilcrow182 right-clicking a stone node does nothing, whereas you can still 'use' it to dig (albeit, with no better capabilities than a bare hand). This is why I never like to think of opening chests/furnaces as 'use'-ing them either; I'm 'interacting with' them... 03:54 Unarelith in MC leftclick = dig rightclick = use(priority)/place shift+rightclick = place 03:55 Unarelith in MT leftclick = dig/use rightclick=place/use shift+?????????? 03:56 Unarelith and use is not even consistent with the actual "use" key most of the time 03:57 Unarelith and now that we have on_rightclick, people will start to use that to do things that used leftclick before 03:57 Unarelith leading to even more inconsistency 03:57 Xiong Pilcrow182 That's fine. I'm not too fussy. Anything is better than what I have now. 03:57 Pilcrow182 that terminology makes less sense to me. IMO 'use' is like using an item to dig for you, just as you'd 'use' a hammer in real life to nail some nails. right-clicking is for placing your wielded item or interacting with the targetted node. Either way, that's not using the item. 03:57 Pilcrow182 ^ Unarelith 03:58 VanessaE Pilcrow182: left-click would be hammering, right-click would be using the claw to pull a nail or pry something apart? ;) 03:58 Unarelith Pilcrow182, there's three actions: place/dig/use, the issue is how these three actions are bound on mouse buttons 03:58 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: I suppose, but it still seems like a stretch to me 03:59 Xiong My current solution is a nasty if-1 hack that always sets drill mode = 5 (3x3). Then I swap in the regular release drill. 03:59 VanessaE joke destroyed. 04:00 Xiong Ahhhh. 04:01 Pilcrow182 Unarelith: there are 4 actions, actually: 2 you do with the wielded item (left-clicking to use it, right-clicking to place it), and 2 you do to the target (left-click to punch it, right-click to interact with it). That makes perfect sense to me (though 'interact' is kind of confusing terminology since permissions and player prives also use the term 'interact' for a different purpose)... 04:03 Unarelith Pilcrow182, that's what doesn't make sense. If I dig leaves from a tree with an empty hand and grab an apple in the way, I'll eat it no matter what, that's dumb behaviour, sorry. 04:04 Xiong Pilcrow182 please ban "interact" as descriptive. There have to be some words left iver for metatalk. Everything interacts. I loathe marketing that describes products as interactive. An oil painting is interactive. 04:06 Unarelith Pilcrow182, when I say there's three actions I mean: Dig (empty hand or tool) / Place (place a node in a world) / Use (use wielded item or selected node) 04:06 Pilcrow182 Xiong: well what would you call it? 'Access' sounds good, but doesn't make sense when thinking about doors, mesecons buttons, etc. 'Toggle' works for those, but likewise doesn't for chests and furnaces. I view both as being the same kind of interaction in a general sense, but can't come up with a better description for it... 04:07 Unarelith Pilcrow182, I have a description, one word: "use" 04:07 Unarelith I mean, if MC made it like that, they had reasons, like the guys who decided the Jump button in platformers are close to the thumb 04:07 Xiong Currently if I dig leaves, all apples drop. If I "dig" (== punch) any entity, including apple, I take it into inv. If I happen to be using bare hand in first empty slot when I take the apple then if I dig again I will eat it. 04:08 VanessaE that ^ is irritating. 04:08 Unarelith Yes that's exactly the type of behaviour that's really unwanted 04:08 Pilcrow182 but 'use' is even more confusing than 'interact' since it gives no context as to whether you're using the item in your hand or the node you're targetting. That's why we need 4 words... 04:09 Unarelith I think we should follow MC model actually, it's not because it's in MC that it's bad (for some things it may be the complete opposite) 04:09 Xiong Pilcrow182 We settled it. Dig and place are the two basic actions. The effects are various. "Dig" and "place" are abstract terms unrelated to and prior to effects. 04:10 Pilcrow182 I think Minecraft has some better ideas than minetest, I won't deny that. But for this particular instance, I think minetest handles it better (even when considering the side-effect of using an apple when trying to dig)... 04:11 Unarelith Pilcrow182, MC doesn't have this kind of side-effects, and for you MT handles it better? please explain 04:11 Xiong I would have preferred to call them "hoge" and "piyo" from the outset, leaving more flavorful terms for effects. 04:13 Xiong Unarelith basically it is too late to change minetest... in any of a broad range of foundation issues. Pilcrow182 and I aren't proposing changes. I'm just trying to find out what he knows. 04:14 Unarelith Xiong, you're so wrong, it's never too late 04:14 Xiong Yep. Too late baby now. 04:14 Xiong You are welcome to fork and fix. Good luck. 04:15 Unarelith Don't worry it's in my dev plans 04:15 Pilcrow182 Unarelith: because minetest handles the dichotomy in a more logical way, acknowleging the fact that wielded items and targetted items EACH can have left-click and right-click actions. The side-effect comes from deciding which one takes precedence. In the case of apples, I think their definition could use some work (only 'eating' if nothing is targetted, maybe?), but I think the MT engine handles the 4 actions more consistantly 04:15 Xiong Never underestimate social inertia. 04:16 Unarelith Pilcrow182, well, I think MT should be able to provide both original MT and MC behaviours 04:17 Unarelith which it currently can't 04:17 Unarelith but I agree that MT provides more control, however using leftclick as "using" an item feels wrong (essentially for the apple-like issues) 04:19 Pilcrow182 Unarelith: I do think that's a good idea in general; adding a 'minecraft mode' option that changes the controls for people migrating from MC to MT sounds smart, but I'm trying to think objectively about how they're handled -- I think MT's way is more logical, assuming a new player has had no experience with either one. 04:19 Unarelith Pilcrow182, it's not since you can use items without wanting to 04:20 Unarelith that's the main issue here 04:20 Xiong Day one, a guy tries sth and it works. Day two his neighbors see and copy him. Day three, new guy sees and does sth slightly different, which also works. Day Four, all town copies... somebody... and get different harvests. Day Five, big shoot out between founders, both sides claim victory but in truth one is all but destroyed. Day Six, law religion custom. Day Seven, new guy comes to town, scoffs at entire town stuffing beans up n 04:23 Xiong Unarelith if not clear, this is Day Seven for mt. You are the scoffer and I'm the village idiot asking whether the bean is to be stuffed into the left or right nostril. 04:24 Unarelith scoffer? I'm pointing an issue, not scoffing. 04:27 Xiong You're suggesting that people try planting their beans, which is patently good sense. But you are in a town of people with beans in our noses. We have worn the beans so for many years. 04:30 Xiong Think of it another way. OSS is a house of cards. People throw cards on the pile. Sometimes it gets bigger, sometimes it collapses. Every so often, influential people give the pile a coat of spray adhesive. After several years the pile is impressively tall. Nobody will cut a section through all the dried crud at the core. It is what it is. 04:32 * Xiong goes to set fire to VE's pile 04:33 VanessaE :( 04:41 Pilcrow182 while I do think minetest handles it better in general, apples and other items that disappear on use could use some work. I wish there was something that resumes the default dig action (a minetest.start_dig(pos), maybe?), since on_use interrupts the normal digging process if it's defined at all. Then something like this would be my ideal for how apples would work: https://pastebin.com/raw/69JZQTTp 04:42 Pilcrow182 ^ as in, if there is any node being pointed at, dig that node with the normal digging action that a node without an on_use would do. but if nothing is being pointed at, eat the apple. 04:46 Xiong VanessaE thank you! I am happy to say I have a daydream subset running. Bobblicks works nicely and my phone did not ignite. 04:48 Xiong Now I must re-add the stuff you left out. How could you overlook the colorful goodness of compass? 04:53 Xiong Actually now that I check, only compass is omitted... of the items I have long considered essential. I also threw in poshudx, which is what I'm hacking up. Drill hack yet to come. 04:53 VanessaE wait, what's a bobblick? 04:53 VanessaE :) 04:58 Pilcrow182 I don't think I'd want to lick someone named bobb, myself... :P 04:59 VanessaE heh 04:59 VanessaE Xiong: what's "compass"? I mean besides being something to find directions :P 05:01 Pilcrow182 There seems to be more than one mod named compass (one in old_mods and one in mod_releases) plus another called compassgps. If Xiong is talking about the 'compass' in mod_releases, here it is: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3489 05:02 Xiong I touch Dvorak for many years. Phone is worse than high school: one-finger typing. So bobblock sometimes bobblick. 05:03 Pilcrow182 No screenshots for that compass mod any more, by the looks of it (unless my firefox is just doing something funny) 05:04 Xiong No, the image links are dead. 05:04 VanessaE Sokomine: ^^ ^^ ^^ fix your screenshots. 05:06 VanessaE also not sure what poshudx is. 05:06 VanessaE !mod poshudx 05:06 MinetestBot VanessaE: Could not find anything. 05:06 Xiong I will shoot when I get back in. It's more a benchmark. You place it and it announces its location and points the cardinal directions. Its orientation cannot be altered. And... it's a light source. 05:06 VanessaE I've seen a few mods like that. 05:07 VanessaE but F5 debug kinda makes them moot ;) 05:07 Xiong That's because I'm hacking it up. !exists 05:07 Pilcrow182 I imagine F5 is kind of hard to do on mobile... ;) 05:07 Xiong F5 !works on Android. Works but very badly. 05:07 VanessaE file an issue :) 05:08 VanessaE I mean, shit... it's just two lines of text, that should be trivial to improve I should think 05:08 Xiong Nah. I always hated debug hud. 05:09 Xiong Yes, trivial. So I'm hacking out a user-centric hud of my own. 05:10 Xiong You might think pressing F5 is trivial, too. Took me two days to figure out how to press F2. 05:10 Pilcrow182 personally, I'd rather have a hud compass mod than something that occupies space in the inventory or world. A little compass in the bottom left or something, that points an arrow in the direction you're facing (similar to fixed-position mini-map, but without any actual map displayed)... 05:10 VanessaE well it would be trivial on a keyboard ;) 05:11 Xiong At least Android port comes with a screen button for F5. 05:11 Xiong Typing is trivial on a keyboard. 05:11 Pilcrow182 Get a bluetooth keyboard? :P 05:12 Xiong I am literally picking out letters one at a time on a soft kbd. I must switch layouts twice to type an =. 05:13 VanessaE get Hacker's Keyboard. it helps. 05:13 Xiong Great idea, Pilcrow182. Fry's is just down the road. But where will I put the phone while I try to decide where to prop the kbd? 05:13 Pilcrow182 it's totally opposite Xiong's situation, but something I've always kind of wanted in Minetest is keyboard-ONLY controls (using the arrows to look up/down and turn left/right rather than the mouse, maybe) 05:15 Xiong Yes, HK. I did. I had already installed it but I needed to flip the hidden switch to create a permanent notification so I can swipe down and silence Irrlicht. Yes. Did that. 05:16 Xiong Also HK is mostly ignored by mt. Holding shift does not sneak. 05:16 Pilcrow182 Xiong: No idea, I was only half-serious anyway. But I really wish I could find a bluetooth mini-keyboard with a built-in clamp to hold your phone, like various bluetooth controllers do (this one, for example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017YUIVDG ) 05:17 VanessaE they make little "folders" for that, too 05:17 Xiong Nah, the ideal is a Razer controller. I have one... in storage with my Real Machine. 05:17 VanessaE keyboard in one side, phone in the other 05:17 Pilcrow182 you'd think that would exist, but searching "bluetooth keyboard with clamp" doesn't give me anything like it 05:18 * Xiong bangs head against cage bars 05:18 VanessaE or 3d-print one. 05:18 VanessaE you DO have a 3d printer, don't you? ;) 05:19 Pilcrow182 Oh yeah, two or three of 'em probably... 05:19 Xiong Or just cut one out of... oak. 05:19 VanessaE or that. 05:20 VanessaE Pilcrow182: a lot of people I know have 2 or 3. I just have the one, and it broke down today :-/ 05:21 Pilcrow182 I've never used a 3D printer, let alone owned one. :/ 05:22 VanessaE definitely a good thing to have. 05:25 Pilcrow182 yeah, I'll get one eventually. Gotta get a decent job first (I can pretty much only do sit-down jobs, as I've got a medical condition that makes most forms of manual labor very dangerous to my health). Fortunately, I just moved recently and there are a lot of opportunities here. Currently training to be a 911 operator/dispatcher. 05:26 VanessaE nice 05:26 VanessaE but ...that'll be a hard job, mentally........ 05:28 Pilcrow182 true. I've already been to a few sit-alongs (where they give you a muted headset and you listen/watch someone else do the job, asking questions between calls). A lot more suicide prevention stuff than I was expecting. 05:28 Pilcrow182 But I think I can handle it, and it'll be a good career move for me. 05:36 Pilcrow182 fortunately, I am mentally in the most solid state I've ever been in my life. I finally love myself and my life, no self-esteem or depression issues any more. Besides, if it turns out the job gets to me, I'm flexible; I can find something else... 05:41 Xiong https://imgur.com/gallery/A4AlWlk 05:42 Xiong That's compass. Cheap craft, no deps, low overhead. Do not go banging off in the wrong direction. 05:43 Pilcrow182 heh, bit of a silly-looking node, but seems useful for those who don't want to or can't use F5 debug... 05:43 Xiong Note the infotext too. It tells you where it is. 05:44 Xiong Infinitely better than debug text. It tells you where it is, fixed... not where you are, which changes constantly. 05:45 Pilcrow182 Oh, wow. I was reading some of the logs from earlier. I'd been wondering where OldCoder had gone... :/ 05:46 Xiong Also the distinctive look can be picked out of a crowded scene from a long distance. As I say it is more benchmark than compass. If you welcome the sight of a benchmark.... 05:46 VanessaE Xiong: oh yes, I've seen that one before. 05:49 Xiong https://media.glassdoor.com/l/16428/us-geological-survey-office.jpg 05:50 VanessaE needs better textures imho :) 05:51 Xiong That benchmark was hammered into rock over a century ago by a man who took care that it told truth. Today it is not quite in the dame location and that can be measured and tells more truth. 05:51 Xiong What needs better texture? 05:51 VanessaE the compass 05:51 VanessaE those low-res arrows and letters may be readable but they don't look good imho 05:52 VanessaE this obsession with 16px textures has gotta stop 05:52 Pilcrow182 Xiong: but debug also tells you which direction you're facing, and it's even better in 5.0.0, having an actual N,S,E, or W after your yaw value -- https://files.catbox.moe/9tvotp.png 05:52 Xiong No they look crap. This is good since it doesn't blend in 05:53 VanessaE you can still make it stand out without it looking like crap :P 05:53 Xiong No dithering, no shading, no antisliasing. One garish lump.of primary colors instantly recognizable from.anywhere. 05:53 VanessaE except for one thing, the colors are all wrong. 05:54 Xiong The crap look is the good part. 05:54 VanessaE N/S should be two shades of blue, E/W two shades of red. 05:54 VanessaE :) 05:55 Xiong You have to talk to the Indians about the proper colors for direction 05:55 VanessaE um, no 05:55 VanessaE red, green, blue: X, Y, Z 05:55 VanessaE like in every 3d program eveer 05:55 VanessaE -e 05:55 Xiong ... and they probably say black is one. 05:55 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: as an aesthetics choice, I actually prefer 16x16 most of the time. But I also don't think it's a huge deal if some mods use different sizes than others. Now, rounded meshes on the other hand, I really don't like. The old blocky toilet in homedecor looked nicer than the current one IMHO, for example. 05:56 VanessaE Pilcrow182: we need resource packs :P 05:56 Xiong Nono. You don't get it. It's perfect because it's wrong from every possible viewpoint. 05:56 VanessaE supply a model + texture(s) 05:56 VanessaE you know? 05:56 Pilcrow182 yep, that'd be nice. 05:58 Xiong The crapness brings it out of the background. Up doesn't need a color. The top is all four colors so it works when set flush in the floor. 05:58 Pilcrow182 but might need some scaling settings to go along with it; not all models are made in the same resolution (err, is 'resolution' the proper term when referring to 3D objects?) 05:59 Xiong Last thing I want is a block in the floor telling me up is up. 06:00 VanessaE Pilcrow182: it doesn't matter. as long as the aspect ratio is the same and the pixels line up with edges and such, if the model was drawn with that in mind, the textures can be any size 06:00 VanessaE e.g. i 06:00 Xiong You guys have fun. Don't break my benchmarks. $250 fine! 06:00 VanessaE e.g. if the model was designed to line up with 16px textures, then a 32, 48, or 64 px image, for example, would work just fine. 06:01 * VanessaE takes a mese pick to Xiong's benchmark >:) 06:10 Pilcrow182 Oh, VanessaE, I'm sure it doesn't come up much, but were you aware that homedecor throws texture errors if the flowers mod isn't present? 06:11 VanessaE I was not 06:11 VanessaE probably the flower pots component. 06:12 Pilcrow182 yeah. Should probably wrap them in an 'if minetest.get_modpath("flowers")' 06:13 VanessaE PR welcome ;) 06:14 Pilcrow182 Heh, then I need to create a gitlab account. Should probably do that anyway though; I've been planning to jump ship from GitHub, just too lazy. 06:15 VanessaE now you have another reason ;) 06:16 Pilcrow182 although there is one thing I haven't been able to figure out about gitlab: is there a way to see a diff of the changes that a commit makes, like you can on github? 06:17 VanessaE sure 06:17 Pilcrow182 oh, actually, it's the same process. Don't know how I missed it before 06:17 VanessaE Repository sidebar -> commits -> then click on the title of the commit you wantr 06:17 VanessaE -r 06:19 Pilcrow182 yeah, I must've not been thinking straight earlier, lol. I thought I tried that and it wouldn't display, but just did it now and it works pretty much exactly the same as github... :P 06:19 VanessaE heh 06:23 Pilcrow182 hmm. must've not... must not've... musn't've? yay, weird contractions... :P 06:24 Pilcrow182 Oh, I suppose it'd be mustn't've :P 06:28 Pilcrow182 it's late here. time for bed I think. g'night, anyone who still there. 06:29 Pilcrow182 *who's 06:30 VanessaE noooooo 06:30 VanessaE no sleep for you 06:31 Pilcrow182 hmm, that's what my body said a few nights ago. laid in bed for 8+ hours to get 30 min of sleep. insomnia's a b**ch. 06:32 VanessaE eesh 06:32 Pilcrow182 fortunately I only had an hour-long thing to do before coming home for sweet nap time... <3 06:33 Pilcrow182 ... which still only lasted a few hours, but it was enough for me 06:35 Pilcrow182 though now I'm in one of those loops, sleeping 10+ hours every other night and 5ish on the nights in-between. This would be one of the 10+ nights; was still awake at 4am last night, now tonight it's only 12:30 and I can't keep my eyes open... XD 06:36 Pilcrow182 anyways, g'night for reals o/ 07:12 Xiong Okay VanessaE, I have a reasonable subset of dreambuilder running. I have seen no unknown nodes thus time around and my bags haven't disappeared. UI has doubled the number of pages it shows and loading time has increased but it runs on a phone less than an aircraft carrier. Do you want the list? 07:12 VanessaE not right now 07:16 Xiong Well I don't have it yet either. I have no access even to jailshell tools; I'll have to write it by hand. I'm not going to force it on you! But turnabout is fair play and you've been most helpful. If you want it, I'll deliver, with pleasure. 07:16 Xiong Today my plans run more to the Bob Newhart Show. 07:29 Xiong Well, never mind. It's a sad thing of interest only to Android players... and who would be fool enough to play mt on a phone? Many thanks again for getting it going over the bumps. 07:29 VanessaE well I'm still curious-- 07:29 VanessaE damn it 10:54 w_laenger Hello, I found a video where mapblock sending after interacting makes nodes dis- and reappear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUr5PuLxfLk&t=353 10:56 w_laenger My pull request should mostly fix this problem: #7630 10:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7630 -- Digging and placing: Remove redundant mapblock sending by HybridDog 10:57 Krock FYI: consider joining #minetest-dev for this 10:59 w_laenger I can not write in minetest-dev: Cannot send to nick/channel 11:02 w_laenger That's probably another problem, mapblock sending makes nodes reappear only if multiple nodes are placed and/or dug in the same mapblock and the server has a relatively slow connection. 16:16 Fixer !rainbow ｉｎｄｕｓｔｒｉｏｕｓ 16:16 MinetestBot 4ｉｎ7ｄｕ8ｓｔ3ｒｉ12ｏｕ6ｓ 18:29 crazyR is it possible to get the name of a mod that might be calling a another mods method/function? if that makes sense? 18:31 Krock debug stack backtrace 18:31 Krock yes that's possible 18:33 crazyR Sorry i should have been more clear. i would like to be able to retrieve the mod name from within the other mods method/function. 18:34 crazyR so essensially id like the function being called to know what mod has called it. 18:35 Krock that's impossible 18:36 Krock imagine the following scenario: 18:36 Krock Mod 1 defines function mymod1.function1 18:36 Krock Mod 2 sets mymod1.function1 = function2 18:36 Krock now what's the caller function? 18:37 Krock the function was originally defined in mod 1 but then overwritten in mod 2. maybe with a function from mod 1 (to make things worse) 18:38 Krock for me it looks like function1 will have a serious identity crisis 18:41 crazyR true.. what if minetest core had a hook/api register/action system. this system would allow mods to register api endpoints/functions/methods and allow other mods to use them. this system would be an extention of the current security system and would be the only way to access mod functions/methods 18:41 crazyR this would then also allow tracking of what mod is using which functions. and even allow restricting usage of functions to specific mods 18:43 crazyR minetest.register_hook() and minetest.do_hook() i think would maybe be appropriate 19:05 Brackston Can some one tell me how to limit a player's view of other players? 19:06 Wuzzy what do you mean with that?! 19:06 Brackston Say if it don't want someone in spawn to see players 3000 blocks away 19:06 Brackston see the name 19:06 Wuzzy yes 19:07 Wuzzy it is possible to hide player name tags 19:07 Wuzzy but its not a setting, only mods can do this stuff 19:07 Brackston Yes that is what I alooking for after some distance 19:07 Brackston Ok Thank you, Wuzzy 19:07 Wuzzy there is a function to hide name tags 19:07 Wuzzy or change the coloor 19:07 Wuzzy not sure what it was 19:08 Brackston I rememeber using something on a server a while back, I just can't remember how I did it..lol age 19:20 MinetestBot 02[git] 04pgimeno -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix C++11 violation that broke clang on Debian Stretch 13e7367f0 https://git.io/fpN5f (152018-12-16T19:08:25Z) 19:21 Brackston I know Calinou had said, " All player positions are known by the client, unless the server doesn't send far away players (which is currently a server setting)." That is why I was thinking is was a server setting 19:22 Brackston I just can't remember or find in my server notes the cammand to limit the distance. 19:27 Calinou player_transfer_distance = N where N is a number of blocks (= 16 nodes) 19:27 Calinou if you set it to 10, people can see other people's names within a 160-node radius (roughly) 19:27 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1247-L1249 19:31 Brackston Thank you Calinou 21:22 scr267 Fedora29: Did you manage to fix your IRC issue? 21:24 Fedora29 scr267, just got home 21:25 scr267 'k. Hope you get it figured out then :) 21:25 Fedora29 scr267, i dont think so, let me log in again 21:26 Fedora29 same error 21:26 Fedora29 scr267, i installed that thing u said and changed the path 21:26 Ruslan1 Anyone know who can put map in my server 21:27 scr267 Fedora29: Still the same error about the missing socket file? 21:28 Fedora29 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Jv9Y2JmTZk/ 21:28 Fedora29 yeah 21:31 scr267 ok im just checking a few things... can't remember if i made any symlinks, just a sec. 21:36 scr267 Can you run both of these commands: 21:36 scr267 locate socket.lua 21:36 scr267 locate socket.so 21:38 Fedora29 scr267, back, sure 21:39 Fedora29 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/42Nh5cGJt4/ 21:44 scr267 Line 24 of my irc/init.lua mod contains the following code which seems to search the correct path, can you double check to see what your code shows around that portion? 21:44 scr267 https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/4saa7cPLrZZWtA3YSO0K-w 21:44 scr267 You can see that the code checks under /usr/share which is the correct install location on Fedora. 21:50 Fedora29 k 21:50 Fedora29 scr267, please ping me when u talk, multitaskign 21:50 Fedora29 lol 21:50 scr267 Fedora29: oops, sorry sure 21:50 Fedora29 thx XD 21:51 Fedora29 scr267, yeah u had me chang ethat the other day i think 21:52 scr267 Can you paste the first 50 lines of that file? 21:52 scr267 Fedora29: 21:52 Fedora29 https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/4D4Y9egp0bTZrQW1csB3Qw 21:52 Fedora29 ok 21:52 Fedora29 sec 21:53 Fedora29 https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/fEzhFKtaf89-QIhnOzcBTQ 21:53 Fedora29 there u go scr267 21:54 Fedora29 i may as well just try 0.4.17.1 21:54 Fedora29 and fix any mods that cause errors with it 21:54 Fedora29 this is the 0.4.16 release by the way 21:58 Fedora29 i need to get some coffee O_o 22:00 Fedora29 on mobile now, gonna get coffee 22:00 scr267 Fedora29: Sure, ok 22:00 Fedora29 17.1 is building 22:01 scr267 Fedora29: I was just checking my library files in use, and lsof shows that socket/core.so is loaded... A locate on socket/core.so shows the following path: 22:01 scr267 /usr/lib64/lua/5.1/socket/core.so 22:02 scr267 Fedora29: I can't really figure out why its not loading it on yours... :-( 22:03 scr267 I'm guessing its just the paths 22:03 Fedora29 could be but 22:03 Fedora29 it works on minetest 0.4.17.1 22:03 Fedora29 on other user accounts on my server 22:03 Fedora29 not bobr's acc 22:04 Fedora29 only reason I'm using releases is because the world is leveldb 22:04 scr267 Oh really? That's odd now isn't it. 22:05 scr267 Well, if I think of something I'll pass it along 22:07 Fedora29 thanks 22:22 Fedora29 im home 22:33 Fedora29 scr267b, i got it working on latest release. now to see why i cant get in :P 22:34 scr267 Fedora29: Ah good stuff 22:34 rubenwardy package.path = "path/to/socket/?.lua;" .. package.path 22:34 rubenwardy You should probably install using luarocks if you haven't already 22:34 rubenwardy May just work then 22:34 Fedora29 i have rubenwardy 22:35 Fedora29 just doesnt work on older releases 23:02 Fedora29 well, amhi is up guys 23:02 Fedora29 now to fix ls wonderland original