Time  Nick       Message
04:56 STB        Anyone here?
09:51 * JimReed  pokes rubenwardy
20:20 Xiong      So... has anyone mined sulfur...?
20:22 VanessaE   why?
20:22 Xiong      Current technic requires sulfur to make batteries... kind of essential but no docs. I have been looking seriously online for any scrap of info.
20:23 VanessaE   well, it spawns in lava lakes
20:23 VanessaE   and when I last tried, it didn't take anything special to harvest it, aside from needing a heat shield :P
20:23 Xiong      Finally I resorted to cheating and spent an hour flying around underground. No sulfur.
20:23 VanessaE   you have technic_worldgen enabled, right?
20:24 Xiong      I did google up one shot showing sulfur around a lave cave... I've been looking for thatish.
20:25 Xiong      I do not... I think. Will that solve the rubber tree problem, too?
20:25 VanessaE   that's why you have no sulfur :)  as for rubber, install moretrees.
20:25 VanessaE   that's where technic gets it from
20:26 Xiong      BTW, I loaded a ton of your mods, VE. Some real improvements and good stability.
20:26 VanessaE   :)
20:26 VanessaE   of course.  that's because *I* coded them :)  (with lots of help)
20:26 Xiong      Yes, of course I have moretrees.
20:27 VanessaE   I strive for performance and stability in my mods :)
20:27 Xiong      trees, ores, blocks.
20:29 Xiong      But no rubber trees in sight. Two days of hard searching. I don't think the biome requirements can be satisfied.
20:29 VanessaE   huh.
20:29 VanessaE   PRs welcome :)
20:29 Xiong      I read your docs as dirt on hot beach. If the beach is hot, it'll be sand.
20:29 VanessaE   I tried to make the biome defs realistic, but lots of overlap, you know?
20:30 VanessaE   maybe the temperature limit just needs adjusted then
20:30 Xiong      I figure the only spot possible is in a transition area. Temperate near desert, dunno.
20:31 Xiong      Those temps are in C. Must be. 32C is hot.
20:32 Xiong      I'd expect, IRL, to find rubber trees in jungles.
20:33 VanessaE   hm
20:34 Xiong      Mm... scarce, likely to be crowded out by canopy. Real rubber was only ever found in one place on Earth.
20:34 VanessaE   yeah, please poke around with the biome def for those and send me a merge request on https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/moretrees ?
20:35 Xiong      Sorry, not sufficiently up to speed on the code structure. Also stuck on Android, where just blowing my nose is a major project.
20:36 VanessaE   it's just a text file
20:36 VanessaE   a simple table :)
20:36 VanessaE   no code knowledge needed.
20:37 Xiong      If you knew what a chore it is just reading a text file on the tiny box.
20:37 Xiong      Took me hours just to get IRC working. Android is hell.
20:38 Xiong      I want my machine back up. Not this year!
20:41 VanessaE   you can edit it on gitlab, too
20:41 Xiong      If you'll take the verbal suggestion... rubber trees in transition area between regular jungle biome and swamp jungle. Hard to find, hard to hack through the undergrowth, hard to carry the loot back home... but not rarer than diamonds.
20:41 VanessaE   no need to even download.  just edit it online once you come up with a good def, then issue a merge request online
20:41 VanessaE   I don't know what swamp jungle is.  is that a mgv6 biome?
20:44 Xiong      VE, I know there are workarounds. I've been doing just that. It's just unholy difficult. Just to get idiot basic stuff done, must root. I rooted my old phone, not this one. Now Netflix refuses to run on a rooted phone. Android's not Linux.
20:44 VanessaE   ok
20:45 Xiong      I'm running v7. Not clear swamp jungle is a distinct biome. But jungles run out into the shallow shelf.
20:46 VanessaE   well, moretrees and biome_lib are meant for mgv6.  no one's stepped up to help adapt them to v7
20:47 VanessaE   and idk enough about mgv7's features to do it.
20:48 Xiong      Not to crab but moretrees seems to have little to do with biomes. You specify temp, alt, nearness to water, spawn block type. So you're kinda defining your own biomeish criteria.
20:48 Xiong      Microbiome...
20:48 VanessaE   yes
20:49 VanessaE   but it's still constrained by the perlin noise layers used in biome_lib
20:49 Xiong      Right, saw that.
20:50 * VanessaE <-- lazy
20:50 VanessaE   :)
20:50 Xiong      Anyway... I gather v7 is new. I started a world, ice and a few chunks of pine tundra... for a thousand blocks in every direction.
20:50 VanessaE   nah, it ain't new
20:51 VanessaE   but it's less-used than v6
20:51 VanessaE   I first developed biome_lib before v7 was a thing
20:51 Xiong      Current world, spawned on a jungle island the size of a dollar pancake.
20:51 VanessaE   heh
20:53 Xiong      v7 is what comes with the app. May be time to switch. But I dislike v6. What about good old v5? Too old?
20:53 VanessaE   v5 is an oddity
20:53 rubenwardy Xiong: v5 is newer than v7
20:53 VanessaE   it's newer than v6, in a way, and also much older
20:53 VanessaE   it's meant to be 0.3.x-esque
20:54 rubenwardy the mapgen versions are not how new the mapgen code is, it just describes which attempt at a map gen it is
20:54 VanessaE   right.  what he said.
20:54 Xiong      ruben, I thought I was using v5 back on the desktop.
20:54 rubenwardy so v5 was originally designed before v6, but the current code was written after v7
20:54 rubenwardy there was an older implementation of v5 that was removed
20:55 rubenwardy but yeah, basically:
20:55 rubenwardy v5 = 3d noise, lots of over hanging cliffs, etc
20:55 rubenwardy v6 = plains, fairly standard langscape, no biomes support (ie: mods can't add custom biomes)
20:55 rubenwardy v7 = something
20:55 VanessaE   ^ hence the existence of biome_lib
20:56 rubenwardy Lua biome implementations suck really
20:56 rubenwardy because of limitations with threading
20:56 Xiong      That's the mt I loved. Negative slopes! Technical climbing!
20:56 VanessaE   yes, but for v6 it's all we have
20:57 rubenwardy does biome_lib even add biome support?
20:57 VanessaE   not to v7
20:57 rubenwardy looks like it's just for spawning plants
20:57 VanessaE   it's pure lua.
20:57 VanessaE   that was the original purpose yeah, but it's used to do other stuff, too
20:57 rubenwardy so can you add your own biomes?
20:58 rubenwardy that's what I meant by biome support - ie: register_biome
20:58 Xiong      BTW VE, plantlife is looking very good. Really like the new inedible bushes and edible ferns.
20:58 rubenwardy v6 obviously has biomes, they're just hard coded :)
20:58 VanessaE   for biome_lib, more or less yeah.
20:59 VanessaE   thanks, Xiong
21:02 VanessaE   rubenwardy: but anyway, you define a biome by defining what map conditions are needed to spawn something.  biome_Lib batches all those defs together
21:02 Xiong      Also, dunno if I ever told you... autocrafter is better than all of mesecons and technic put together. I like them all but if stuck on a desert island, I want a default tree and an autocrafter. Really like the new on-off switch!
21:02 VanessaE   sort, unique, then split into steps that can be played-out during globalstep
21:06 VanessaE   rubenwardy: https://i.imgur.com/G0ig34J.png
21:07 VanessaE   this is mgv6.  here, you can see random plants, moretrees, ground litter under default trees, and elsewhere (offscreen) are giant ferns spawned inside jungles...
21:10 VanessaE   most of what biome_lib can do, mgv7 can do on its own, I think, but biome_lib doesn't know about mgv7 so it lacks any kind of "translation layer"
21:10 Xiong      Okay VE, my head is too blobby to chat much. I'm taking away I need to fiddle minetest.conf to enable technic worldgen... I'll look that up. And switch base worldgen away from v7. And that should solve both rubber and sulfur issues. Yay! Thanks.
21:11 VanessaE   Xiong: nah, you just need to enable that mod.  it comes with technic
21:12 Xiong      You think that'll fix both? I'll find out.
21:12 VanessaE   it'll fix the lack of sulphur.
21:13 VanessaE   but for the rubber trees, you'll need to fiddle with moretrees' rubber tree biome def.
21:13 Xiong      Rather switch to v6.
21:13 VanessaE   because if you haven't found any yet, you probably won't.  it's probably just not satisfyable.
21:13 VanessaE   i*
21:14 Xiong      Well, I've seen rubber trees in years past. Hasn't always been broken.
21:14 VanessaE   ok.
21:15 VanessaE   so maybe it IS just v6 vs. v7
21:16 Xiong      Dunno. Nobody is perfect but I don't think you've been ignoring years of rubber tree complaints.
21:17 VanessaE   I try not to ignore people :)
21:17 Xiong      They were scarce... and that's fine. That kind of complaint should be ignored.
21:17 VanessaE   so you're finding them now?
21:18 VanessaE   oh, were
21:18 VanessaE   duh
21:18 Xiong      No no. Now, none at all.
21:18 Xiong      I'll fiddle with worldgen from both ends.
21:18 VanessaE   rubenwardy: feel like making biome_lib compatible with v7? ;)
21:19 Xiong      Gonna have to scratch another world. :(
21:19 VanessaE   Xiong: sowwy
21:20 Xiong      At least I paddled the boat. Never had so much water before.
21:20 VanessaE   heh
21:21 Shara      VanessaE: in what way isn't it compatible? I've never really understood why all the things that use it don't just use regular register_decoration and have done.
21:21 Xiong      Okay well bye and TFATF!
21:22 Shara      Is it just to add growth as well as placement?
21:22 VanessaE   Shara: aside from v7 using different perlin noise than v6 for e.g. desert and jungles, biome_lib doesn't take advantage of v7's own biome features, which would be much faster than mine
21:24 VanessaE   a way to detect which mapgen and adapt the perlin settings, and some kind of translation layer to convert existing biome_lib calls to mgv7 calls is needed
21:25 Shara      I just have memories of rage-deleting huge chunks of it because it and/or moretrees made my server lag way back then. I should probably look at it at some point, but there's plenty og other things I should really look at too.
21:25 VanessaE   it'll still lag, but it's way less heavy than it used to be
21:26 VanessaE   the code that adds the ground litter under default trees probably needs streamlined, though
21:27 VanessaE   (it doesn't use the globalstep method)
21:27 Shara      I also remember getting fed up of the different ways different mods handled growing trees and so on.
21:34 Shara      I think I had some grand plan to go back and look at them all and figure out what was best. :)
21:34 Shara      Then realised how much work that was.
21:35 VanessaE   well biome_lib only has two ways:  spawn a sapling and let the game handle growing later, or spawn a l-system tree.
21:39 VanessaE   (though moretrees uses biome_lib's ABM calls to handle its own saplings, if I remember right)