Time Nick Message 07:16 juli thi 07:16 juli i have a problem converting old nodes which used 07:16 juli paramtype2 = facedir 07:16 juli to 07:17 juli paramtype2 = wallmounted 07:17 juli i changed the param2 of the node, but the rotation still doesn't change ingame 07:17 juli how can this happen? 07:28 juli nobody an idea? :( 10:59 juli ok found a solution now, i put legacy blocks which get replaced when u dig them 13:42 Helenah How complete is Minetest? 13:43 Helenah Last time I played, there were several bugs. 13:43 Helenah Hi celeron55 :) 13:43 Helenah and VanessaE 13:44 twoelk depends :D 13:44 Helenah On what? 13:45 twoelk explain the word complete 13:46 VanessaE complete enough to be fun to play? 13:46 Helenah VanessaE: Finally? 13:46 Helenah Awesome! 13:47 Helenah It's just... last time I got a Minetest server up and running, my community complained it was too featureless, but I don't expect a dev team to whip out a game overnight. 13:47 twoelk easiest way to find out is download and then join as many servers as possible to get an idea of different versions of what people think a good game is 13:47 VanessaE well, 13:47 Helenah This was in 2016 13:48 VanessaE how does this grab ya? 13:48 Helenah So I'm hoping two years later it's at a level where nobody complains about it's feature list. 13:48 VanessaE https://i.imgur.com/nA4vH8G.png 13:49 Helenah VanessaE: What is that? 13:49 Helenah It looks like a fruit machine 13:49 Helenah from a casino 13:49 VanessaE it's a slot machine minigame. 13:49 VanessaE I'm still working on it 13:49 Helenah Wait... Minetest has minigames now? 13:49 VanessaE yep. 13:49 Helenah Interesting... 13:49 Helenah But what about core features, blocks, textures, mobs? 13:49 Helenah Are these complete? 13:50 VanessaE no mobs, but lots of everything else. 13:50 VanessaE just... try playing :) 13:50 ChimneySwift > 13:50 Helenah I remember there were a mobs plugin 13:50 VanessaE download some big modpack, or go on a popular server 13:50 twoelk how can such things ever be considered complete? 13:50 ChimneySwift woops lol 13:50 Helenah and I don't mind using it, as I used it last time. 13:50 VanessaE just make sure you're up-to-date 13:51 VanessaE many servers need the latest and greatest 13:51 Helenah twoelk: I've been on games where it's impossible to process due to what's missing. 13:51 Helenah Anyway... I'm gonna deploy a server. 13:51 VanessaE good luck. 13:51 twoelk lol define process? 13:51 * VanessaE goes back to coding 13:51 Helenah Cause you guys convinced me with your active development. 13:52 Helenah twoelk: I meant move onto the next stage 13:52 twoelk and again defin ..... 13:52 twoelk lots of servers dont have specific paths to some goal 13:52 Helenah Like complete, I know it's not the goal of Minetest to be completeable tho 13:53 Helenah Anyway, do you intend for Minetest to remain a minimal sandbox with no mobs, etc? 13:53 twoelk no background goal or mission in basic minetest-game 13:53 ChimneySwift Minetest is at a really interesting stage of development atm, a lot of new things popping up 13:53 Helenah Brilliant 13:54 Helenah And is it to remain a small sandbox? 13:54 twoelk minetest intends to make use of mods and not to make them obsolete 13:54 Helenah I want to know what your absolute goal is with the game. 13:54 Helenah Aaaah 13:54 Helenah Interesting 13:54 ChimneySwift I think mtg is unlikely to become a more complete game in and of itself, its supposed to be a modding base 13:54 Helenah Okay, I like that idea. My friend develops mods. 13:55 Helenah ChimneySwift: Yeah, that's what I was meaning. 13:55 ChimneySwift but there had been talk about adding an out of the box playable game 13:55 Helenah Yeah, that would be a good idea to give people an insight on what the engine can do just by playing first. 13:55 Helenah That is up to you guys though. 13:55 Helenah You said your goal to be a modding base. 13:56 twoelk mtg is an out of the box building game but not an adventure, goal ridden, beat the boss monster game 13:58 twoelk have a look at https://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games and https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs 14:00 Helenah Right... I'm gonna deploy a VPS and clone the repo. 14:00 Helenah Thanks for the answers to my questions :) 14:02 twoelk https://content.minetest.net/ will be part of the next version, so you may download mods from within minetest 14:19 Helenah Are there any modpacks like technic? 14:19 Helenah and how do I search by that category? 14:24 twoelk yell at rubenwardy if searching by category in contentdatabase still doesn't work :P 14:24 rubenwardy There are no categories 14:25 rubenwardy There are tags 14:25 twoelk oops 14:25 rubenwardy And that hasn't been implemented yet 14:25 twoelk double oops? 14:25 rubenwardy I'm not a full time employee, yknow 14:25 rubenwardy Unfortunately 14:25 rubenwardy XD 14:25 * twoelk is fully employed - but not for minetest 14:26 * twoelk looks if boss is watching 14:28 Helenah Wow this bloody cig wont smoke! 14:44 rubenwardy literally the first item on the cdb page is technic 14:44 rubenwardy https://content.minetest.net/packages/RealBadAngel/technic/ 14:45 rubenwardy it's important to learn the difference between Minetest and Minetest Game 14:45 rubenwardy Minetest is a domain specific game engine 14:45 rubenwardy Minetest Game is the current default game included in distributions 14:51 Helenah hmm 15:23 Helenah Hmm 15:27 Helenah 2018-08-31 16:26:17: ERROR[Main]: Game "minetest" not found 15:27 Helenah 2018-08-31 16:26:17: ERROR[Main]: Subgame specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid. 15:27 Helenah 2018-08-31 16:26:17: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec 15:27 Helenah I have followed the guide on setting up a minetest server... 15:28 Helenah I also changed minetest.conf.example to minetest.conf and added address = 0.0.0.0 16:05 Alexand{er|ra} Helenah: You either need to specify a game to use or you need to name a game's directory "minetest" or "minetest_game". I think most people download Minetest Game, then rename the directory "minetest_game". 16:06 Alexand{er|ra} Stupidly, GitHub and other Web Git providers rename the directories, so the developers can't just set them to the correct names that the engine expects. 16:44 Helenah Alexand{er|ra}: Thanks, I worked hard to find that info. 16:45 Helenah Just found it, realised my terminal stuck and I didn't see what you put until I hit a key. 16:47 Helenah Alexand{er|ra}: I think I remember doing something like that in the past. 16:50 Helenah Apparently the Windows portable executable is way too old for my server, however I don't feel comfortable compiling on Windows. lol 16:50 Helenah Nor do I know how to do it. o.o 16:51 Krock Alexand{er|ra}: inb4 games should use "game.conf" to correct the name in all cases 16:52 Helenah Krock: game.conf? 16:52 rubenwardy Krock: that isn't actually supported btw 16:52 Krock rubenwardy: then why is it documented? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L64 16:52 rubenwardy game searching is done purely by the folder name 16:53 Krock oh! "name" is actually a readable text 16:53 Krock yet another story of inconsistency 16:54 rubenwardy oh fun 16:54 rubenwardy deprecation time! 16:54 Helenah How the hell do I use Windows for compiling? o.o 16:54 rubenwardy loool 16:54 rubenwardy yeah 16:54 Krock easiest step: you don't 16:54 Helenah I really don't feel confident 16:54 Krock http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest 16:55 rubenwardy I switched to Linux because I couldn't compile on Windows 16:55 rubenwardy true story 16:55 Helenah Ugh sack it, I boot up a Linux machine. 16:55 rubenwardy join the dark side 16:55 rubenwardy 5 years later, and I'm on Arch (kinda) 16:55 Krock Helenah: it's fairly easy if you have MSVC installed already and only need a 32-bit build 16:55 Helenah I use Linux on most of my stuff and compiling is usually easy. 16:55 Krock but anything else.. no plan 16:55 rubenwardy Manjaro, the baby's Arch fork 16:55 Helenah But on Windows, it feels like Windows just wants to dick me around. 16:56 Krock rubenwardy: just ensure you run pacman -Syu on each startup :P 16:56 rubenwardy * pacman -Syyu 16:56 rubenwardy that's a good idea actually 16:56 rubenwardy I should do that 16:56 Krock until your kernel paniks 16:57 rubenwardy unlike Arch, Manjaro does some testing 16:57 rubenwardy so releases are delayed by a week 16:57 rubenwardy but hopefully no panicks 16:57 Helenah God, I haven't had an unexpected kernel panic since kernel 2.6 16:58 Helenah Krock: So I've to install Microsnot heavy bloat just to compile Minetest? No thanks. 16:59 Helenah On Linux, when I compiled the server, all I had to do was use cmake and make! 17:00 Krock Helenah: MSVC 2010 is enough for 0.4.x - way less bloated than future versions where also built-in trackers were found 17:00 Helenah It's not the point, I just wanna open up CMD and be on my way, now it's just getting complicated... 17:00 Krock but sure, xcompile is easier 17:01 Helenah I've to like open a browser, download some GUI thingie and install it... 17:01 Krock yeah, like an entire IDE 17:01 Helenah I don't want an entire IDE tho. 17:01 Helenah storage space is a premium on this machine. 17:02 Helenah All I want to do is compile the game. 17:03 Helenah I'll do it on a Linux system, nvm. Thanks for your help. I guess this is an issue with Microsnot. 17:03 Krock and minetestmapper, if you plan to host a public server 17:03 Helenah Is that a mapping tool? Nice! 17:03 Krock yes, gives you a nice overview of the world 17:04 Helenah Screw Microsnot 17:05 Helenah Krock: I'll consider it. 17:05 Krock trying to get a demo map to show.. imgur overloaded.. 17:05 Helenah Ah yeah, nothing new there 17:08 Helenah Sorry about that, Microsoft make my attitude all stinky. lol 17:11 rdococ Micro$it 17:12 Helenah The OS literally makes me suffer from stress, I'm not sure why though. 17:12 Helenah And it contributes to my depression. 17:12 Helenah I think I'm gonna remove it from this system. 18:22 Calinou Helenah: you can install *just* the C++ build tools with the Visual Studio 2017 installer 18:22 Calinou (without the IDE) 18:22 Calinou it's 5 GB on disk in this case 18:22 Calinou a MSYS2/MinGW-w64 installation will still be smaller (~2 GB), though 18:23 Calinou unfortunately, CMake projects using OpenGL have trouble being compiled under MSYS2 and I have yet to find a solution to this 18:23 Calinou gathering all the dependencies Minetest needs is still a lot of work, in any case 18:24 Calinou (C++ world problems :P) 18:27 rafalcpp Calinou: xd 18:39 Out`Of`Control How do you compile minetest on air between glass 18:40 Krock with gcc-elf-molecules 19:33 Fixer i'm just using slightly modified buildbot and then compile via msys2 without no problem 20:01 starz0r is there a minetest build server for git master that uses msvc? 20:01 starz0r I believe there was one that used mingw gcc 20:03 Helenah Calinou: "5GB", how much? 20:05 Krock starz0r: is your target to build the thing on Windows or just get it running asap? 20:06 starz0r Krock: really depends 20:06 starz0r I'd rather build it on Windows 20:06 Krock I mean, there are daily builds: https://gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/pipelines 20:06 Helenah This is one reason why Windows is annoying, 5GB for a fuckin set of build tools, ridiculous. Everything is like gigs in size... 20:06 starz0r the only Linux machine I have is a 32-bit one with a 1 core CPU, it would take ages to build there 20:06 Krock can't take longer than 30 mins on my potato CPU 20:07 Helenah Lol 20:07 Krock was a Celeron D @ 3.06 GHz and somewhat slow 20:07 Helenah You guys make me laugh 20:07 starz0r these gitlab builds are mingw gcc aren't they? 20:07 Krock yes, but that doesn't matter in terms of performance 20:07 Helenah You claim a 1 core CPU will take forever to compile things, not necessarily. 20:07 Krock most likely cross-compiled 20:08 Helenah I have a single core Pentium 4, it takes 20mins to build a Linux distro. 20:08 Helenah That really isn't a long time. 20:08 Krock the kernel alone takes more than that if you build it from scratch 20:08 Helenah I do 20:09 Helenah It depends on hardware, but single core CPUs are definately faster (sometimes) than starz0r claimed. 20:09 starz0r well my goal is to actually build on Windows with MSVC 20:09 Helenah That's fine. 20:09 Krock starz0r: the best tutorial you can find is probably this one http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest 20:09 starz0r It might be possible, but I'm not sure where to get MS ABI dependencies 20:10 Helenah Calinou: I think I'd rather opt for MinGW. 20:11 Krock install visual studio or look out what application provides "msbuild" which is needed to compile the stuff 20:12 Helenah I don't wanna install 5GB of build tools. 20:12 Helenah Like I said... it's ridiculous... 20:12 Krock that was an answer for starz0r 20:12 Helenah Aaah, my apologies 20:13 Krock You already gave me an insight on your opinion about M$ 20:13 Krock starz0r: after you've got msbuild you could compile everything with a few commands .. and probably some tweaking 20:14 Krock the build system has changed a little, so I'm not sure whether the Lua linking errors still need manual editing 20:14 starz0r I've already had MSBuild and the compiler 20:14 Krock (in order to solve them) 20:15 starz0r using Visual Studio 15 2017 generator in CMake doesn't work because it doesn't find any suitable dependencies, and doesn't build them it's self if their not found 20:16 Krock does the compiler work? does it fail finding minetest-specific dependencies? 20:16 Krock if the compiler is not detected properly, you might want to check for cmake updates first 20:18 Helenah Interesting, there is a toolchain already implemented to build a 32-bit Windows binary. Excellient. 20:18 Krock some time ago I wrote this file (also for myself) to know which steps result in a working (32-bit) binary: http://krock-works.16mb.com/MTstuff/Compile_Minetest_MSVC.txt 20:18 Helenah I mean 64-bit 20:19 Helenah Well both even 20:19 Krock buildbot scripts. crosscompile 20:19 Helenah Yeah, that's the route I'm gonna go down. 20:19 Krock so you also found these already? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/util/buildbot 20:20 Helenah Just noticed it. 20:20 Krock although they might need tweaking because they're made for .. well, build bots. 20:20 Helenah hmm 20:22 Helenah I'll see what I can do. 20:23 Helenah It's gotta be better than downloading 2-5GB just to compile a game. heh 20:37 Calinou starz0r: you need to build them one by one :( 20:37 Calinou vcpkg doesn't have all libraries Minetest requires, so it's not an optionb 20:37 Calinou -b 20:37 starz0r Calinou: yeah :( 20:37 starz0r so far so good though 20:38 starz0r I'm not sure how to build GNU Gettext with MSVC though 20:38 starz0r doesn't come with a CMakeLists.txt file so I can't use ez mode 20:38 Calinou *shrug* 20:38 Calinou I wonder how it was done for the official builds 20:40 Krock 64-bit binaries? 20:41 Krock Calinou: cross-compiled. The 32-bit 0.4.16 MSVC version used a build from gnuwin32@sourceforge 20:41 Calinou yes, but you can't use libraries compiled with MinGW with MSVC? 20:42 Calinou their ABIs aren't compatible 20:42 Krock well, that worked. 20:43 Krock I think using MinGW libraries in MSVC works, but not the reverse 20:43 sfan5 pretty sure that didn't work 20:44 Krock then it means that the gnuwin32 project used MSVC to compile the stuff 20:45 Krock (that is https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/files/ ) 20:46 Helenah I think the buildbot script is gonna work o: 20:47 Krock because I didn't bother trying to compile gettext's makefile and used the precompiled gettext libs instead, which worked perfectly at the end 20:57 Helenah Calinou: On Linux mingw-w64 is 1GB, so why is it 2GB on Windows? 20:57 Calinou MSYS2 probably takes some more size 20:57 Calinou either way, expect it to use around 2 GB with a base toolchain and some libraries 20:57 Helenah hmm 20:58 Helenah I'm cross-compiling it on Windows for Linux. 20:58 Krock don't you also pack all required libraries into Windows builds? On Linux you also have some dependencies; that's where the leftover 1 GiB might be 20:58 Helenah That's how I prefer it. 20:59 Krock and if it has to be portable then it's statically linked and we're at the same point as with windows.. 21:00 Helenah That's annoying about Windows, the amount of programs which can't be installed unprivileged to ones home directory. 21:00 Helenah So when people make thing portable, respect to them! 21:25 Copenhagen_Bram Hello 21:25 Copenhagen_Bram So what are the best Minetest subgames lately? 21:50 Alexand{er|ra} Helenah: Yeah, for sure. Personally, I refuse to install anything system-wide unless it comes from my system's repos, so any third-party software doesn't get installed unless it's portable. 21:51 Alexand{er|ra} I'd love to say Palette Game is great, but it's mostly in the planning stages for now. 21:51 Alexand{er|ra} Aside from Minetest Game and Palette Game, I'm not too familiar with available games. 21:57 Fixer 5.0.0-git building with msys2 takes about 5 minutes on 4 core cpu 22:07 Calinou Alexand{er|ra}: blame people for not providing ZIP archives of their software :P 22:08 Calinou ZIP archives (even not "true" portable ones) are much more Scoop-friendly (https://scoop.sh/) 22:10 Alexand{er|ra} Calinou: Sometimes it's not even a packaging issue. Sometimes, you have to compile from source, then install to a specific system directory before it'll run correctly. 22:10 Calinou oh yes, stuff depending on absolute paths :( 22:11 Alexand{er|ra} Yeah. I'm glad Minetest has an option not to do that. 22:11 Alexand{er|ra} I would never have upgraded away from my then-system version of 0.3.1, otherwise. 22:12 Alexand{er|ra} 0.4.3 was out at that time though. It was a huge improvement. 22:13 Calinou Minetest automatically detects if it's run from a system directory or not 22:13 Calinou (which is the right way to do it) 22:16 Alexand{er|ra} Oh. Nice. So what's the -DRUN_IN_PLACE flag for then, if not telling Minetest it'll be run where it is instead of from a system directory? 22:20 Calinou it means configuration files will be placed in the same directory 22:20 Calinou you don't want to enable it unless you want a "true" portable install (that you can put on an USB drive with configuration files) 22:20 Calinou it's disabled by default on Linux, enabled by default on Windows 22:23 Alexand{er|ra} Okay, I see. So if I stop using that option, I can keep my configuration in ~/.minetest and not have to reconfigure Minetest each time I upgrade. Nice. 22:24 Calinou yeah 22:24 Calinou it avoids accidentally nuking all your configuration/mods/worlds if you delete the Minetest source directory too :) 22:24 Alexand{er|ra} That was mildly annoying, but not enough for me to look for any kind of solution or complain. 22:28 Alexand{er|ra} I really think ~/.minetest should be just ~/minetest . I keep all my dotfiles visible, so it has no impact on me, but it's the type of directory users need to directly interact with, such as to add/remove mods/texture packs. The dot hides the directory from most users, and I've seen new users confused by the "missing" directory a few times. 22:29 Alexand{er|ra} Anyway, gotta' go to work. Thanks for the tip! 22:36 Helenah hmm 22:38 Helenah Alexand{er|ra}: I like to install things to home directories and chroots 22:38 Helenah Certain things I'll have system-wide though 22:39 Helenah But it's things I know don't change much of the system, if any 22:47 rubenwardy Alexand{er|ra}: you can use linking 22:47 rubenwardy ln -s .minetest minetest