Time Nick Message 03:19 AlienCat I wonder if we ever can move to 0.5 03:20 VanessaE no 03:20 VanessaE because it'll be 5.0.0 :) 03:23 AlienCat wut 03:23 AlienCat its 0.4 now 03:24 AlienCat 0.4.17.1 03:24 VanessaE yes. 03:25 VanessaE and the next major feature release will be 5.0.0. devs have decided to drop the leading 0. 03:26 VanessaE the 0.4.x series is more or less in maintenance only now. bugfixes, no new features. 03:26 AlienCat Anyways there seemed to be many mods for 5.0.0 but the development seem to have dies 03:27 VanessaE dev of what, has died? 03:27 VanessaE the mods, or the engine, because the engine has not. 03:27 AlienCat I mean the mods for the 5.0.0 05:50 larrythecow is it not possible to change a node's formspec inside on_receive_fields using meta:set_string("formspec", new_formspec)? 05:52 ANAND It's possible, AFAIK. Have you tried it yet? 05:53 ANAND You could invoke show formspec, and pass the same formspec name as the second parameter 05:53 larrythecow i did 05:54 larrythecow i have not tried show_formspec though 05:54 ANAND What else have you tried? 05:54 larrythecow i put the same code in an abm and it works 05:54 larrythecow and the same code in on_construct and it works 05:54 larrythecow and i wrapped it in minetest.after but that did not work 05:55 larrythecow 5 second timeout to give me a chance to exit the formspec in the gui 05:55 larrythecow i also printed called meta:get_string("formspec") and dumped that right after setting the new value in on_receive_fields 05:56 larrythecow the dumped text was indeed the new value, but when i rightclick the node it shows the old value 05:56 ANAND It works from within an ABM without calling show_formspec()? 05:56 larrythecow er, old formspec 05:56 larrythecow yes, changing the formspec works in an abm 05:57 larrythecow i did not have the form open at that time though 05:57 ANAND Ah 05:57 ANAND That explains 05:57 larrythecow does having the form open prevent changes? 05:57 ANAND I think so 05:57 larrythecow ahhhh 05:57 ANAND Use show_formspec again, after modifying the formspec 06:02 larrythecow calling show_formspec causes an immediate change to the form 06:02 larrythecow but the value does not persist when i close and reopen the form 06:05 ANAND oh right 06:06 ANAND Also set the node's formspec meta field 06:06 larrythecow i never changed that part. both things are being done 06:07 ANAND You mean the actual values entered don't persist? 06:07 larrythecow yes 06:08 larrythecow unless i'm missing something obvious after a long day of coding 06:10 ANAND IIRC, tenplus1's Protector Redo mod features something similar to what you're asking for... 06:10 ANAND !mod Protector Redo 06:10 MinetestBot ANAND: Protector Redo [protector] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9376 06:10 ANAND AFK for a while, good luck 06:12 larrythecow thanks 06:13 larrythecow hmm 06:14 larrythecow that mod completely works around using on_receive_fields for a node, apparently confirming the observed behavior 12:06 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua_api.txt: Fix incorrect vector section directive (#7466) 132e95ebd https://git.io/fG2iA (152018-06-20T12:05:56Z) 12:13 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: README.md: Improve version scheme text (#7465) 13525fa91 https://git.io/fG2Pr (152018-06-20T12:11:13Z) 12:14 Neoplasm Hi 16:16 Andrey01 Hello everyone 16:17 ircSparky hi 16:17 Andrey01 Devs, are you planning to add API for creating "subworlds" in 5.0.0? 16:17 ircSparky !seen ac_minetest 16:17 MinetestBot ircSparky: ac_minetest was last seen at 2015-09-23 07:36:38 UTC on #minetest 16:17 rubenwardy no 16:20 Andrey01 when will 5.0.0 be realeased? No date yet? 16:21 rubenwardy no date, probably a few months 16:22 Krock It's done when it's done 16:23 Andrey01 will this update be the most big of all last updates? 16:23 red-001 isn't there a changelog on the wiki? 16:27 Andrey01 there is, here:https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog, however it looks here should be more changes in list, that`s why 5.0.0 doesn`t seem to be so global 16:28 rubenwardy as it says on that page, it was last updated in Jan 16:30 Andrey01 in Feb 16:30 Andrey01 19th Feb by nerzhul 16:39 Andrey01 When the error is calling: attempt to index a nil value is it means does this index not exist? 16:40 Astrobe no, it means the "table" is nil 16:41 Astrobe Like in "palyers[i]", "palyers" is a nil value because of the typo. 16:41 Krock pals 16:44 Andrey01 hmm... it`s strange, i don`t have a typo 16:44 Astrobe I can give you soem, I haz plenty :D 16:45 Krock thaz not typo, iz lolcat 16:47 Andrey01 can i upload my code here or elsewhere you to see where is an error? 16:47 rubenwardy paste bin 16:47 rubenwardy or gist 16:47 ScrambledAuroras Andrey01: gist.github.com 16:47 rubenwardy as long as it has highlighting and little JS 16:47 red-001 gist is basically a pastebin 16:49 Andrey01 do i need to upload my code there? how? 16:49 red-001 copy and paste 16:52 Andrey01 Should i make secret gist or public one? 16:53 red-001 do you want it to be public? 16:54 Andrey01 no 16:54 Andrey01 here is a link: https://gist.github.com/Andrey2470T/0dede93c6d355c7da95b6d7bfe9e61ba 16:55 rubenwardy please rename to .lua 16:55 rubenwardy soemthing.lua 16:55 rubenwardy so it's highlighted 16:56 Andrey01 do i need to make commentaries to simplify "reading" of the code? 16:56 Andrey01 renamed 16:58 rubenwardy which line is the issue one? 16:58 Astrobe We'll need the line number of the error too. 16:59 rubenwardy some general comments: try to use correct indentation (line 8 onwards is weirdly indented) 16:59 rubenwardy also don't nest too much 16:59 rubenwardy use functions instead 16:59 Andrey01 line:178 16:59 rubenwardy there is no 178 16:59 red-001 ^ 16:59 rubenwardy see what line 178 is in your code 16:59 red-001 what file is the error in? 17:00 rubenwardy then tell us which line it is in the gist 17:01 rubenwardy the whole code is unreadable because of the nesting and broken indentations 17:01 rubenwardy ie: I don't know what's in the for loops and whats now 17:01 rubenwardy *not 17:01 rubenwardy also, consider using early exit rather than massive if statments 17:02 rubenwardy so if type(particlespawners_amount) == "number" and particlespawners_amount > 0 then could be redone to just return immediately if not true 17:02 rubenwardy rather than making everything indented 17:02 Astrobe 17:02 Andrey01 it`s 140th line 17:02 rubenwardy huh? 17:03 Andrey01 i don`t know why it is 140th, it should be 178 17:03 Andrey01 Ah, all is right, i passed unnecessary part of my code 17:06 Astrobe If it's actually line 140, I'm not surprised; 4 indexes, no less, so 4 things indexed. 17:09 Andrey01 wait, i will add commentaries to my code now 17:09 rubenwardy properly indenting it and cleaning it up would be better 17:10 Astrobe you should try to do "local dummy=particle_def[3]" and add progressively the other indexes and see at which point it breaks. 17:10 Astrobe To debug this. 17:15 Astrobe It may be that param_min_pos has an improper value. 17:35 Copenhagen_Bram hello 17:35 Andrey01 I`ve added commentaries and indentations properly 17:35 Copenhagen_Bram you know for a moment i thought i had the problem licked by turning on VBO and stuff but it's still lagging 17:35 Copenhagen_Bram hey Andrey01 17:36 Andrey01 hi 17:38 Copenhagen_Bram do you run minetest on linux-libre with a Intel GMA 4500MHD gpu? 17:40 sofar whoah, that's old 17:40 Andrey01 Copenhagen_Bram, do you ask to me? 17:40 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: nice, every single thinkpad laptop sold by technoethical or minifree has one 17:41 sofar 2008 GPU 17:41 sofar they still sell them? 17:41 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: i hope, because i suspect the more modern ones are all proprietary 17:41 sofar I work for Intel 17:42 sofar DISCLAIMER: this is my personal opinion, not my employers 17:42 sofar you're wasting your time 17:42 sofar cheers! 17:42 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: can you tell your boss to get rid of intel ME and to make their hardware open source? 17:42 sfan5 I thought Intels GPU drivers were free software? 17:43 sfan5 or is there a binary blob required? 17:43 Krock insert minix into Intel stuff 17:43 red-001 ^ 17:43 sofar ME can be disabled on many platforms, and is not even present on many too 17:43 red-001 ME is extra embedded system on the CPU 17:43 sofar UEFI is essentially open source 17:43 red-001 is the* 17:44 Copenhagen_Bram so UEFI is hardware? I was wondering if it was a BIOS thing 17:44 sofar UEFI is software 17:44 sofar https://www.tianocore.org/ 17:44 Copenhagen_Bram oh 17:45 Copenhagen_Bram but if i install Libreboot on a device that doesn't have UEFI, will it now have UEFI because Libreboot has it? 17:45 sofar personally, I feel libreboot is a bit too much tinfoil hat and doesn't actually buy you any security 17:46 sofar just erase the uefi key store and upload your own keys 17:46 sofar and you're much more secure 17:46 Copenhagen_Bram i need to learn about uefi 17:46 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: but what about full disk encryption? 17:47 sofar sure, get a hard drive that does it for you 17:47 Copenhagen_Bram what? 17:47 sofar https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/20286/how-secure-is-intel-ssd-encryption 17:47 Copenhagen_Bram why would i need a hard drive that encrypts my data? i can do that with software 17:48 Copenhagen_Bram it's called a luks partition 17:48 red-001 it's a lot faster 17:48 sofar software full disk encryption isn't something you need libreboot for 17:48 sofar it works on every linux system anyway 17:49 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: well what kind of intel laptop would you recommend to me? and will its wifi and graphics card work properly on a linux-libre kernel? 17:50 sofar if you want zero proprietary firmware, no, it won't work 17:50 Copenhagen_Bram do you know a nice laptop that has something better than the GMA 4500 MHD but will still work properly with Trisquel or Parabola installed? 17:50 sofar if you're not a zealot then every intel laptop with intel HD graphics will work 17:51 sofar trisquel? parabola? I don't even know these distros 17:51 sofar [ADVERTISEMENT] https://clearlinux.org/ [/ADVERTISEMENT] 17:52 sofar lol 17:52 red-001 17:52 sofar but anyway, Intel HD laptops .... I think they go from 200$ nowadays 17:53 sofar https://www.google.com/search?q=intel+laptop+celeron 17:53 sofar 149$ lol 17:53 sofar geesh 135$ 17:54 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: trisquel and parabola are part of this list https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html 17:54 red-001 ah GNU 17:54 sofar any standard set by `GNU` people is irrelevant 17:55 Copenhagen_Bram and maybe I am a zealot tinfoil hat about software. But why isn't openness the default? 17:55 sofar I'll listen to the FSF, but gnu.org... boo :) 17:55 red-001 if it's not obscure it's not worth using 17:55 Copenhagen_Bram hmm I thought gnu.org was part of the FSF 17:55 rubenwardy None of those distros are relevant 17:56 sofar GNU is sponsored by the FSF 17:56 sfan5 your best are older thinkpads, afaik they can work with libreboot 17:56 sofar not part of 17:56 Copenhagen_Bram > The Free Software Foundation recommends and endorses these GNU/Linux distros 17:56 sfan5 your best bet* 17:56 Copenhagen_Bram ah 17:56 rubenwardy I bet some of them even support Hurd *vomits* 17:56 sofar look 17:56 sofar personally 17:56 sofar if you want to make a *difference* 17:56 sofar for the future 17:56 sofar don't go digging into 10year old hardware 17:57 sofar reward manufacturers that *today* make hardware that is reasonably "free" and has open source drivers and no restrictions on firmware distribution 17:57 sofar mom&pop shops that go dumpster diving to feed the tinfoil frenzy are predatory in many ways too, just as bad, possibly worse 17:58 Copenhagen_Bram how so? 17:58 sofar because they're appealing to people who are willing to pay top dollar for something that essentially has no market value anymore 17:59 Copenhagen_Bram hmmmmmmmmm you might have a point there 17:59 sofar https://www.ebay.com/p/Lenovo-T400-16in-500GB-Intel-Core-i3-4th-Gen-1-7GHz-4GB-Notebook-Laptop-Black-80LT00H6US/222408232 17:59 sofar 300$ on ebay for a 10 year old laptop 17:59 red-001 uh 18:00 Andrey01 Generally, i`ve printed particle_def[3] in debug.txt and it prints all fields that starting from index 2 with tables, but passed index 1 18:00 red-001 ebay is the worst sometimes 18:00 sofar red-001: it was kinda easy to find one that expensive :) 18:00 red-001 yeah that's what I mean 18:00 red-001 they seem to prey on ignorance 18:01 sofar Copenhagen_Bram: the underlying desire to remove security risks is completely sensible, however 18:01 sofar so I'm not discounting that for some people, this is a reasonable decision 18:01 Copenhagen_Bram red-001: yeh, i wonder what alternatives there are 18:02 sofar however, unless you're exposing yourself to immense, terrible security risks on a daily basis, you are better off using *NEW* hardware that has been secured for *TODAYS* security risks 18:02 Copenhagen_Bram hmm. But why do they need proprietary drivers? 18:02 sofar Intel laptops with Intel HD graphics doesn't need proprietary drivers 18:03 rubenwardy I've never needed them 18:03 rubenwardy Intel drivers are foss 18:03 sofar you can run OSS drivers on many radeon and nvidia cards too (at a loss of performance, but still) 18:03 sofar many wifi cards are OSS drivers 18:03 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: so trisquel would run on one of them? 18:03 sofar any linux distro would run on them 18:03 sofar at least, it should 18:04 sofar unless they don't like firmware 18:04 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: even linux-libre distros? hmm. 18:04 sofar if you knock out firmware you're going to be very limited 18:04 Copenhagen_Bram I think I've heard that word 'firmware' somewhere in my repos 18:04 red-001 do GPU manufacturers release documentation on how to interface with the card or are all those drivers reverse engineered? 18:04 sfan5 lol, as if 18:04 Copenhagen_Bram so yeh I think they allow firmware, just not proprietary firmware... 18:05 * Copenhagen_Bram looks up firmware 18:05 sfan5 red-001: nouveuau for example is entirely reverse engineered 18:05 sofar radeon is based on specs 18:05 sofar afaicr 18:06 red-001 ah so it's a bit of a mixed bag 18:06 sofar Intel publishes everything 18:07 sofar there are also vendors out there that you can't even get an OSS driver for 18:21 entuland !mod matrix 18:21 MinetestBot entuland: Could not find anything. 18:21 entuland great 18:21 Copenhagen_Bram sofar: what if my problem isn't the old graphics card? I've seen minetest run at 60fps but then it suddenly drops to 5 fps 18:22 Copenhagen_Bram I think if it was just that my graphics card isn't powerful, wouldn't it be at 5 fps all the time? 18:22 Copenhagen_Bram oh and prboom now jitters 18:22 Copenhagen_Bram although it briefly played smoothly just after I rebooted 18:23 sfan5 mesh generation might be slow on your gpu 18:23 Copenhagen_Bram hmm how do I test that 18:23 Copenhagen_Bram and why do things play smoothly at first 18:25 sfan5 press f5 (twice?) to bring up the statistics 18:25 sfan5 if your game lags while num_processed_meshes is high, that's it 18:25 Copenhagen_Bram alright. What do I look for, besides the dismal framerate? 18:25 rubenwardy What happens if you run out of graphics memory? 18:26 Krock also F6 will give you some more information 18:26 Copenhagen_Bram ooh I press f6 sometimes, it's like a *lot* of information that I don't understand. Hmm 18:26 Copenhagen_Bram I guess I'll run minetest now 18:27 Copenhagen_Bram fps 5 18:29 Copenhagen_Bram drawtime 70 or 80 18:30 Copenhagen_Bram dtime_jitter 100.5% 18:30 Copenhagen_Bram v_range 20.0 (lol) 18:30 Copenhagen_Bram RTT whatever that means = 0.002 18:30 Copenhagen_Bram actually don't know what dtime_jitter is 18:31 Copenhagen_Bram rubenwardy: how do i tell how much graphics memory i have? 18:33 Sur3_ I accidentally typed /clear and it crashed my server o.O 18:34 Krock congrats 18:34 Sur3_ ahh ok seems to be the morecommands mod 18:35 Sur3_ i think it expected an argument and only had a nil value because I didnt give a player name ^^ 18:37 Krock Copenhagen_Bram, Google/DDG will tell you the right method of how to see how much video RAM you've got. The higher the texture pack resolution is, the more RAM it will use -> and more draw time accordingly 18:37 Sur3_ but it cleard my own inv.. 18:37 Sur3_ weird 18:38 Krock dtime_jitter is basically how much your client step intervals vary. 0% would be optimal here to have a very smooth (or at least regular) gameplay 18:39 Copenhagen_Bram ah, so 100% is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike smooth 18:39 Copenhagen_Bram over 100% i mean 18:41 Copenhagen_Bram wb rubenwardy 18:41 Copenhagen_Bram thanks Krock. What's RTT? 18:42 Krock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-trip_delay_time (long name in URL) 18:42 Cornelia Round Trip Time 18:42 Krock Fix for it is in progress: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7428 18:42 Krock because these 0.002s shouldn't be there all the time 18:43 Krock the F5 graphs show up more precise values for that 18:59 Andrey01 What does this error mean: attempt to index upvalue 'items_to_drop_list2' (a nil value)? 19:05 Copenhagen_Bram huh, got 11fps playing vanilla minetest 19:05 Copenhagen_Bram oh i must also note that it seems to slow down other things on my computer 19:06 Krock that means that the variable given in the error was either not defined, is unavailable in the current scope or was set to nil 19:06 Krock Copenhagen_Bram, also experienced that with the nouveau driver with two OpenGL applications open 19:09 Copenhagen_Bram Krock: hmmm. Does it run fine with just one openGl application open? 19:11 Krock well, the performance was not optimal so I switched back to the proprietary driver 19:12 Krock but with one application it ran quite faster 19:13 Copenhagen_Bram i guess free drivers aren't as good as the proprietary ones??? 19:13 Copenhagen_Bram you know what where do i learn how to program graphics engines? 19:14 Copenhagen_Bram maybe i'll just make a really good DooM-based software engine for minetest 19:14 Copenhagen_Bram and start an organization dedicated to making drivers and games that run on old, less proprietary hardware 19:21 Sur3_ ok the error was triggered in this line: count = count + (clear(name, "armor", itemstring)) 19:21 Sur3_ it said arithmetic on nil value 19:21 Krock clear() must return a number 19:21 Krock hi est31 19:22 Krock s/hi/wb/ 19:22 Sur3_ ah yes found it 19:22 Sur3_ there are return nil in clear.. 19:23 Sur3_ I'll replace them by zeroes then maybe.. 19:24 Krock count = count + (clear(name, "armor", itemstring) or 0) 19:24 Krock solves your issue too 20:50 Astrobe Can someone explain to me the weird fetish some people have for admin privs and moderator positions? 20:50 Out`Of`Control fetish??? 20:50 Out`Of`Control Astrobe: anyone ask for extra privs ban 20:56 rubenwardy Astrobe: power 20:57 rubenwardy and something to make them feel better about their dull lives 20:57 rubenwardy +insignificant