Time  Nick           Message
00:04 entuland       okay, helping on the C++ side isn't feasible right now for me, I don't want to get lost in the "backend" before even getting a decent grasp on the "frontend", so to say
00:04 entuland       I'll stick to Lua modding for the moment :P
00:09 paramat        i can't recall any mod that creates a mesh in-game
00:10 paramat        it's a good idea to look at mods to see what is possible, then alter a mod that is similar
00:11 entuland       nice, then mine will be the first, unless someone far more experienced than me manages to release one such a mod earlier :) I'm glad this channel is logged ahahahah
00:11 entuland       oh that mention of pipeworks was for the workaround
00:11 paramat        the ease of Lua comes at the cost of more limitations compared to MC 'modding'
00:12 entuland       if I could fake the mesh with multiple smaller wool blocks I could work around the lack of meshes loaded at runtime
00:12 entuland       but I doubt event the technique used by pipeworks could scale to the amount of blocks I may need in theory
00:12 entuland       even*
00:13 entuland       such a workaround would be just until the worlds gets restarted
00:13 entuland       when it does, said blocks would use the actual .obj
00:14 paramat        even if you do have to restart a world your intended mod will still be useful as a meshnode creator
00:14 entuland       yep
00:15 paramat        .. even if you can't see the new node at proper size until after the restart
00:16 entuland       the .obj format and its UV mapping are pretty simple, using a default texture with only the colors of the wool will simplify it as well
00:17 entuland       I suspect the trickiest thing will be ensuring a decent optimization of the mesh without useless faces
00:17 entuland       (say, merging 4 sub-voxel faces with the same color)
00:18 entuland       too bad I get inspired about such things at 2AM when I need to get up early :P
00:18 entuland       will be for tomorrow, hopefully
00:19 entuland       yep, I'll call it a day
00:19 entuland       thanks everybody for chatting
00:19 entuland       have fun!
00:51 Stix_          hi, anyone who works on here? (that isnt afk)
00:51 Stix_          hello?
00:52 Stix_          i have a coupld questions concerning 0.5-dev if anyones listening
00:52 Stix_          *couple
00:52 Stix_          *anyone who works on mt here?
00:53 Stix_          @sofar
01:16 Stix_          @ANAND hi
01:17 ANAND          Hey Stix!
01:17 Stix_          @ANAND i got a couple questions for you if you arent busy
01:17 ANAND          Sure, ask out
01:18 Stix_          ok i was watching a unofficial preview of 0.5-dev, and it looked like coral is an entity and thats why it can be flooded with water, is that true?
01:18 Stix_          i figured you'd know because you play 0.5-dev
01:18 Stix_          @ANAND you there still?
01:19 ANAND          Not sure 'bout that, since I don't use 0.5-dev that much
01:20 ANAND          I'll check
01:21 Stix_          i wonder why they are adding a special sapling for the larger jungle tree instead of just making it a chance to generate either one with the same saplng
01:21 Stix_          also did you hear the new snow footsteps sound? its amazing!
01:21 ANAND          Stix, corals are just normal nodes
01:21 Stix_          then how are they flooded?
01:22 Stix_          oh im sorry, i meant seeweed
01:22 ANAND          ah
01:22 Stix_          not coral xD
01:23 Stix_          @ANAND what about seaweed? (thats what i had meant to say).
01:24 ANAND          Haven't seen it yet, but they're definitely not entities
01:25 ANAND          afk now
01:25 ANAND          sorry
01:25 Stix_          oki bye
04:25 Miner_Joe      How does one get Landrush to work on 0.5.0?
04:26 Miner_Joe      I've seen 2 servers with it running quite well.
08:20 andirc8000     I have a quick question: does minetest store only user-placed blocks in a db (and leave the rest of the blocks for world-generation function (mapgen (?)) to be generated on the fly)? Or does it store also some non-user-placed blocks in db? And if yes, then can I clean them up (to reduce db size)?
08:23 Vapalus        Doesn't minetest store them all because generating stuff costs CPU?
08:24 Vapalus        I thought of it like it's a picture, you draw it, then you save it, and if you want to change something, you re-open it, change it and save it again
08:30 ANAND          Only the nodes that are generated by the mapgen will be stored
08:32 andirc8000     ANAND: can I clean them up? (and leave specically only user-placed blocks in the db (to reduce db size (because mapgen can regenerate them again no need to store those in db disk-space-concerned)))?
08:33 ANAND          That's not possible AFAIK
08:33 Out`Of`Control you can delete parts of map. Look in forum how
08:34 Out`Of`Control map = db
08:34 ANAND          Out`Of`Control, andirc8000 wants the mapgen to re-generate the same terrain after deletion
08:34 andirc8000     ANAND: so if I walk 10km south it bloats up db size?
08:34 ANAND          if that area hasn't been generated yet, then yes
08:35 andirc8000     ANAND: #$@? I have no extra gigs to spare idk about speed I can wait for 10 seconds for mapgen to regenerate me terrain ahead when I walk (like the first time when I created the world) I don't like to waste those GB's on my hd for each world though each time I walk 10km south
08:36 andirc8000     or at least there got to be some way to clean-up non-user-placed blocks
08:36 andirc8000     from db *
08:37 andirc8000     to 'shrink' db size etc.
08:37 ANAND          Even if it's possible to delete everything other than user-placed nodes, the mapgen won't generate the same terrain over and over again, for a particular map-block
08:37 Out`Of`Control andirc8000: you could save areas, and load later?
08:38 andirc8000     ANAND: it has the same 'seed'
08:38 ANAND          oh
08:39 ANAND          I'm sorry for misleading you
08:40 ANAND          But still, MT doesn't differentiate between user-placed blocks and mapgen-created blocks
08:41 ANAND          So if you do delete an area, the user-placed blocks would be gone too
08:41 andirc8000     <ANAND> But still, MT doesn't differentiate between user-placed blocks and mapgen-created blocks <== you sure about that?
08:41 andirc8000     that's a pity.
08:41 ANAND          yes
08:42 andirc8000     why is there no such a flag?
08:42 ANAND          the seed doesn't account for user-placed blocks
08:43 andirc8000     (flag which indicates whether a node was user-placed or auto-generated by mapgen (in db I mean))?
08:43 ANAND          Well idk
08:43 ANAND          Discuss with the devs if this can be implemented
08:43 ANAND          and if possible make a PR for the same
08:51 Hillbilly      andirc8000, better to just prevent that map from being generated in the first place when possible
08:52 ANAND          agreed
08:52 andirc8000     Hillbilly: why I care about disk space and I like to walk 'infinite' distances.
08:52 andirc8000     (in my mt world)
08:52 ANAND          .....
08:53 andirc8000     don't need to bloat db size for that (ideally)
08:53 Vapalus        then you need infinite hard drive space
08:53 ANAND          true
08:53 Hillbilly      andirc8000, storage is cheaper than ram/cpu
08:53 Vapalus        normally I cannot imagine that it should be a problem
08:54 Vapalus        even with my brother and my sister travelling long, long distances for several days it wasn't much of a hassle
08:54 ANAND          andirc8000, only the areas near a player will be generated
08:54 Hillbilly      if its really an issue just get a decent usb drive and store your map data on it
08:54 andirc8000     Hillbilly: ?
08:54 ANAND          andirc8000, how large is your map DB exactly?
08:55 andirc8000     Hillbilly: no it's not - you have a finite hd space I like my hd free space.
08:55 Hillbilly      thats why i'm saying not to store it on your hd
08:55 ANAND          XD
08:55 crazyR         Does anyone here use mtsatellite
08:56 ANAND          no sorry
08:56 andirc8000     ANAND: let's say it's 11MB when I placed 2 blocks (while ideally it should be, like, ~2K)
08:56 Hillbilly      or more creatively, us worldedit to store you builds and just start with a new map
08:56 andirc8000     (because of those 2 blocks)
08:57 andirc8000     e.g I approx. that each placed/removed by user block would take ~1kb in db size
08:57 Hillbilly      were worried about mb here? i assumed we were talking about 10-12 gb maps :P
08:57 ANAND          lol
08:58 Vapalus        Dude, if you are worried about MB - how old are you?
08:58 ANAND          andirc8000, 11 MB = the two blocks you placed + all the generated map-blocks
08:58 Vapalus        I just bought 4 TB for 90 bucks
08:59 ANAND          Magnetic storage is actually getting cheaper
08:59 Vapalus        And I've never, NEVER seen a map going above 5 Gigs.
08:59 Vapalus        So, you can store about 1000 maps on 90 bucks
08:59 Vapalus        thats 9 cent of storage per map
09:00 Hillbilly      i have on public servers, but shouldn't be as much an issue for single player map
09:00 andirc8000     ANAND: and I want/curious about a way compact that to 2kb
09:00 Vapalus        if you have a server with 20 players
09:00 ANAND          andirc8000, simple answer: you can't (as of now)
09:00 andirc8000     ANAND: ok.
09:00 andirc8000     ANAND: you know that for sure (as a minetest dev?)?
09:00 crazyR         5GB....    thats a small map.. ethicrush server map is just short of 3.5GB and that is only a couple of months old since the wipe
09:01 ANAND          andirc8000, I'm not a Minetest dev, but you can certainly double-check with them
09:02 crazyR         also size depends on storage/compression methods too
09:02 ANAND          But seriously, if the size of your world is in the order of MB, just delete a couple of useless videos here and there
09:02 Vapalus        It depends on a lot of things.
09:02 ANAND          et voila, you get space for 5 more maps! :D
09:03 Vapalus        ANAND: I think he was talking about theoretically improving it
09:03 Vapalus        But, to jump on the train, it is much cheaper to store everything than to re-generate it
09:03 ANAND          <andirc8000> Hillbilly: no it's not - you have a finite hd space I like my hd free space.
09:04 Vapalus        Energy-wise, CPUs cost a lot more than HDDs, and when you buy it, same.
09:04 ANAND          andirc8000 seems to prioritize on conserving their storage
09:04 ANAND          afk for a bit
09:09 Hillbilly      i have played on mt on chromebook quite a lot and keep a handful of testworlds for mod development at any given time. with only 16gb of storage, including what is used by my os i've never had storage issues with mt. likely its other stuff on your hd that is taking up more than its fair share
09:14 Vapalus        Considering that minetest keeps crashing from time to time, I guess saving 2 kb is not their main priority :P
09:21 Hillbilly      Vapaplus are you sure its not a mod? minetest is fairly stable otherwise
09:23 ANAND          "fairly stable" :P
09:24 Vapalus        well, the "fairly" is the point
09:25 Hillbilly      stable as in it doesn't typically crash on its own, fairly, as it, unless we are talking about dev build or some un-ordinary circumstances.
09:25 Vapalus        if you're playing a game, one crash per 3 hours can be a bit disturbing - if you consider that you need about 3 hours to find whatever you were just searching for.
09:26 Vapalus        And LUA gamemodes can't be considered mods. They are intended to be there.
09:27 Hillbilly      not sure i follow. are you referring to minetest_game or other games?
09:28 ANAND          wait... one crash every three hours? o_O
09:28 Hillbilly      i've never experienced anything like that
09:28 ANAND          Hillbilly, Vapalus must be referring to (sub-)games
09:29 Hillbilly      i assume so
09:30 Hillbilly      which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with minetest itself, as far as those crashes go
09:30 Vapalus        Nope, original games
09:30 Vapalus        minetest_game
09:31 Hillbilly      do you have errors messages? other mods loaded?
09:31 Vapalus        only mod, my own - which isn't too complicated. It's not a LUA crash, the whole game just stops working.
09:31 ANAND          something is quite wrong if you get 1 crash every three hours
09:31 ANAND          did you check your debug.txt?
09:31 Vapalus        Maybe, I'm a windows user
09:31 Vapalus        debug is empty
09:31 Hillbilly      thats the bug :P
09:31 Vapalus        well, at least in this case, no message
09:31 ANAND          uhh... empty?
09:32 Vapalus        "empty"
09:32 Vapalus        there is no error message for the last 10 mins
09:32 ANAND          It just crashes to the OS?
09:32 Vapalus        yupp
09:33 Hillbilly      to be fair, i don't know hoe much testing occurs on windows
09:33 Hillbilly      i'd still be surprised if crashes occur every 3 hours that it is strictly an issue with minetest though
09:34 Vapalus        Seems like the devs don't use Windows themselves
09:34 Hillbilly      no, but surely lots of players do that would submit issues/bug reports
09:34 ANAND          But some prominent contributors do
09:34 ANAND          ^
09:35 Vapalus        What I can guess is that it seems to have to do with the database, and loading/saving chunks. I'll try it out on newer versions (5.x), of course.
09:35 ANAND          Are you using 0.4.17-dev
09:35 ANAND          ?
09:35 Vapalus        Because submitting big bugs that only happen on 4.x, and only on my computer, dunno if that's a waste of time
09:36 Vapalus        dunno...
09:36 Vapalus        Don't think I'm into using dev
09:36 ANAND          oh ok
09:37 ANAND          Bc, a recent commit has introduced an issue in 0.4.17-dev which makes the game crash around once in three hours or so...
09:37 ANAND          the time between crashes is not directly related to the issue though
09:38 Vapalus        naw, it's certainly not recent. I didn't have much time for mc the last... 3 months?
09:38 Vapalus        Doing some machine learning bullshit
09:42 Vapalus        It's like watching a toddler throwing down your glass of water
10:05 MinetestBot    02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Make sure color returns to normal after a damage flash (#7332) 130cecc1d https://git.io/vpHqa (152018-05-14T10:03:39Z)
10:32 rubenwardy     andirc8000: there's an unexplorer mod
10:34 IhrFussel      Vapalus, if the mods/games are correctly coded and are compatible with your MT version then MT should be able to run *days* without any crash ... the record uptime for mine with 180 mods was 114 hours
10:36 IhrFussel      If debug.txt shows absolutely no errors then it's most likely a segfault (c++ problem) that *could* still be caused by a mod AFAIK
10:56 andirc8000     rubenwardy: could you elaborate please what u mean? (I couldn't find 'unexplorer' on minetest forums nor via 'googling')
10:56 rubenwardy     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10333
10:57 sfan5          !title
10:57 MinetestBot    sfan5: Map unexplore python script - Minetest Forums
11:00 andirc8000     rubenwardy, sfan5: is there a flag in db that indicates whether a node has been placed and or removed by a player (and not by a map gen)?
11:00 sfan5          no
11:01 andirc8000     sfan5: well how does then that 'Map unexplore python script' deduct which is a node placed/removed by a user then? (sorry for my english)
11:01 sfan5          why are you asking me
11:01 rubenwardy     list of nodes that are probably placed by users
11:01 andirc8000     sfan5: I thought u or rubenwardy might know
11:01 rubenwardy     ie: signs, furnaces, etc
11:01 rubenwardy     read the topic
11:03 andirc8000     rubenwardy, sfan5: are there any plans in the future to add such flag? (to be able to carefully curate around non-user-creations
11:03 sfan5          no
11:04 rubenwardy     a per mapblock is more feasible
11:04 rubenwardy     a per mapblock flag is more feasible
11:04 IhrFussel      andirc8000, my server map is 24 GB in size and you complain about a few MB...I find that to be a bit silly
11:04 andirc8000     rubenwardy, sfan5: I'm sorry to point out 'competitors' but https://github.com/fogleman/Craft does exactly that 'User changes to the world are stored in a sqlite database. Only the delta is stored, so the default world is generated and then the user changes are applied on top when loading.'
11:05 rubenwardy     not really a competitor
11:05 sfan5          you are welcome to implement that in Minetest
11:05 sfan5          see you on github
11:05 andirc8000     rubenwardy: :)
11:06 andirc8000     sfan5: yep that would be hard using already existing infrastructure (not from scratch)
11:06 IhrFussel      It would be TERRIBLE for lua mapgens
11:06 sfan5          there are a few arguments against doing this delta thing, but I can't be bothered to repeat them
11:06 IhrFussel      They are already slow
11:06 andirc8000     sfan5: it might be a useful feature (in the feature)
11:06 sfan5          pretty sure there's an issue open for this
11:06 andirc8000     in the future*
11:07 rubenwardy     it should be per-mapblock, not per-node
11:07 IhrFussel      If MT wouldn't store the generated mapblocks anymore lua mapgens would have to re-generate the exact same terrain again everytime
11:07 rubenwardy     I can't find the issue though
11:07 rubenwardy     Github search sucks
11:07 andirc8000     rubenwardy: ok, still
11:07 Out`Of`Control andirc8000: adding that would make db only bigger, as i understand you plan to make it smaller
11:08 andirc8000     rubenwardy: at least flag in db if a 'mapblock' was modified by user or 'just walked into'
11:08 andirc8000     rubenwardy: but I understand I'm not a dev and just 'blabbering'
11:08 rubenwardy     that's exactly what I meant by per-mapblock
11:08 rubenwardy     please may you stop pinging me
11:08 rubenwardy     I'm already in the room
11:09 andirc8000     rubenwardy: since I can't really offer my resources to contribute
11:09 andirc8000     rubenwardy: ? (well I was answering you there are other posters here)
11:10 sfan5          pinging your conversation partner with every message is not how you use irc
11:12 andirc8000     sf*n5: am I missing some 'subtle clue' here?
11:12 sfan5          ?
11:14 andirc8000     r*benwardy: but you're saying that such a future per-mapblock 'should be' and doesn't really exist yet, am I correct?
11:14 Out`Of`Control that would be horrible future
11:14 andirc8000     feature*
11:15 andirc8000     sorry I'm not native enlish speaker sometimes mixing up words
11:15 IhrFussel      andirc8000, you can open an issue about it on github if it doesn't exist yet
11:16 IhrFussel      If it exists you can just comment on it and post it here
11:16 Vapalus        IhrFussel, it was the default gamemode with some of my own codes, and it looked like a segfault during chunk storage. But as I said, It'd be probably better to use the newest version - I haven't played for 3 months.
11:17 rubenwardy     yeah, doesn't exist
11:17 rubenwardy     the feature doesn't
11:19 IhrFussel      Out`Of`Control, if it would be just a flag for each mapblock plus an optional conf setting or command that only clears the non-flagged mapblocks then it could be useful to some I think
11:20 Out`Of`Control so each node would have extra flag. DB is big enough already
11:20 IhrFussel      No, just one flag per mapblock (16x16x16 nodes)
11:20 Vapalus        Naw, he means "delete everything that wasn't changed, regenerate it when needed"
11:20 Vapalus        kinda when you run around, that you don't store what was generated
11:21 Vapalus        but if you build, it stores it
11:21 IhrFussel      That would make server lag a lot ^ ... implementing it as a "manual check" is better
11:22 Out`Of`Control so you keep removing then recreating with mapgen....
11:22 Vapalus        I generally think that using the CPU to reduce load on a hard drive isn't a good idea...
11:22 IhrFussel      The builtin mapgen can already cause 1-2 secs lag with a few mods enabled like moretrees
11:23 Vapalus        It only would make sense if we'd be using the C++ mapgen only
11:23 Vapalus        and if the CPU was strong enough
11:23 Out`Of`Control its like asking for more bugs
11:23 Vapalus        but telling you the truth, it would remove so many features, like lua mapgeneration, and stuff
11:23 IhrFussel      WAIT it wouldn't even work with lua on_generate() callbacks... because the generated terrain would look different each time
11:24 Vapalus        bingo
11:24 IhrFussel      Not necessarily terrain but decorations
11:24 Vapalus        well, that, and who tells you that the lua generates the same stuff every time
11:24 Vapalus        I'm planning to use random events someday
11:25 Vapalus        well, okay, in this case it would be epic
11:25 IhrFussel      Everything that uses ABMs for mapgen stuff is random by definition
11:25 Vapalus        because if you don't build there, its wilderness, if its wilderness, random events happen again and again
11:26 Vapalus        still, reproduceability is better
11:27 Vapalus        Just out of curiosity, you're already using something to compress data?
11:27 Vapalus        like, PNG
11:27 IhrFussel      I bet the other linked game above doesn't even have a lua API
11:28 sfan5          Vapalus: mapblock data is compressed with zlib
11:29 Vapalus        guessing it's about 1:10, in average cases?
11:30 sfan5          no idea
11:32 Vapalus        would be interesting, because zlib uses a library, and... technically, minetest does, too, since every node is actually a number.
11:32 Vapalus        or, generally, "deflate" does.
11:33 sfan5          "zlib uses a library"???
11:33 Vapalus        word library for huffman tables
11:33 sfan5          oh
11:33 Vapalus        dunno, wrong word I guess
12:31 Astrobe        Assuming the decorations are made deterministic, an idea would be to generate mapblocks in RAM only and not save them if they were not changed by the player. No flag in the db required.
12:32 Astrobe        It looses the ABM-changed stuff, but one could bet that nobody would notice.
12:35 Astrobe        that's a lot of work for very little demand though.
12:44 andirc8000     ok: can someone of the devs comment on my question that i formulated here: http://q118.pen.io ?
12:48 sfan5          flag inside the db? no
12:48 sfan5          flag using some external mechanism? probably
12:49 andirc8000     sfan5: add some attribute? anything?
12:50 andirc8000     sfan5, ok I can think of creating separate file on disk by the lua mod, to be later read by "mod2" (?)
12:52 andirc8000     sfan5, maybe create an 'air' node on the coordinate (0,0) of that mapblock with a 'description' of 'used' etc just brainstorming here
12:53 sfan5          please stop pinging me with every message
12:53 andirc8000     s*an5: ah yeah sorry
12:53 sfan5          "s*an5" are you doing this shit on purpose
12:53 sfan5          just omit the nick
12:54 andirc8000     sfan5: no, I'm just conversing with you specifically, to omit misunderstanding of 'whom I meant in my message'
12:55 sfan5          have you heard of the thing called "context"?
12:55 sfan5          there is no misunderstanding possible
12:55 andirc8000     sfan5: maybe I should ask that tomorrow too much noise from me today.
12:55 sfan5          no this is not a reason to postpone your question
12:55 sfan5          the answer is: yes and air node with meta would work, but that's quite hacky
12:56 sfan5          s/and/an/
12:56 andirc8000     sfan5: oh, there's always a place for misunderstandings we both know that
12:56 andirc8000     sfan5: :)
12:56 andirc8000     so, tomorrow.
12:58 sfan5          I don't know what you are achieving by trying to remove the faintest possibility of misunderstanding about who you are talking to
12:58 sfan5          well you have successfully annoyed both ruben and me with this
13:00 Astrobe        which option is responsible for the darkening of the sky when one looks towards a dark location?
13:01 sfan5          there's no option for that
13:01 sfan5          should be part of the camera code though (?)
13:03 Astrobe        ok, thx.
13:03 andirc8000     sfan5: I don't like a ban. 2) I think that I'm asking is on topic and is not 'trolling'. 3) I'm just sorry but I fail to get the 'moderator clue' here - (again hoping for an explanation and not a 'ban') -- if we were in a real room and there were 5 people talking in a group I would not understand how would I be annoyed if someone would refer to me by a name (again hoping for an explanation here and not a
13:03 andirc8000     ban)
13:05 Astrobe        andirc8000: some IRC clients can be configured so that they play a sound when your nickname appears in dialog.
13:05 rubenwardy     in you were in a real room, you'd know who was talking to you by context
13:05 rubenwardy     same here
13:05 Astrobe        That's why what you do could be annoying for sfan5.
13:05 rubenwardy     and that ^
13:06 Astrobe        oops. Sorry dude. not intentional.
13:06 andirc8000     Astrobe: so then I woulndn't understand why saying 'sf*n5' would be "'are you doing this shit on purpose?'"
13:07 andirc8000     Astrobe: that was my solution to 'pinging sound' problem
13:09 sfan5          that particular comment was because it felt like you were purposefully misunderstanding me
13:11 sfan5          andirc8000: 1) I'm not going to ban anyone for being annoying 2) the problem is not with the content of your question 3) but there aren't even 5 people talking here (being present does not imply participation, especially on irc)
13:14 andirc8000     sf*n5 (pinging sound avoiance): ok, call me socially inept wtf (would I really be on irc otherwise? :))
13:15 andirc8000     avoidance*
13:16 Astrobe        I think the person you're talking to is quite patient. I would have just /ignore'd you by then.
13:19 sfan5          I'm not always this patient
13:21 andirc8000     ok let me just as another precautionary mitigation quit this channel for a day. (please don't ban me in the meantime. thanks.)
13:21 lumberJ        lol
13:22 lumberJ        i have to hope all of that was largely the product of a language-based communication barrier
13:31 crazyR         "I'm not always this patient" sorry but if you call your above response patient.. id hate to see your "non-patient" side..  I understand that constant pinging can be annoying. but it was pretty clear that the guy didn't understand what he was doing wrong. i think in this situation a little More patience was needed.
13:31 crazyR         *reponses
13:37 sfan5          I'm not sure how patient you are, but I'm here to babysit IRC users to compensate for lack of basic communication skills
13:37 sfan5          not here*
13:40 lumberJ        i'm not sure what else can be expected. He was only asked to stop at least 2-3 time and have it explained to him, only to keep doing it. All that aside from the fact he was basically dragging out a non-issue feature request for going on 3 hours after being asked to take the issue to github.
13:47 ANAND          andirc8000 just wanted to save some precious storage space in the end
13:48 ANAND          but looks like the IRC logs would've added to their woes
13:48 lumberJ        lol, i was about to say the same.
13:48 ANAND          :P
13:49 lumberJ        probably about the same size as his world folder
13:51 ANAND          hehe
14:17 cimbakahn      Hello!
14:17 cimbakahn      Is there anything I can do about the darkness on a online-server?  I am really getting tired of this!  Everytime I turn around it's getting dark.  I can't get anything done.  Night time last too long.  Is there any files that I can alter in my client that works on the online-server?
14:18 rubenwardy     gamma
14:18 ANAND          or change the day-night ratio
14:18 ANAND          depending on your needs
14:19 cimbakahn      I don't quite understand how to do it.  It would have to work on a online-server.
14:20 IhrFussel      cimbakahn, only gamma works client side I think...maybe some more settings from the advanced menu
14:20 cimbakahn      I am not talking about a singleplayer world, i am talking about on a online-server.
14:21 cimbakahn      So, look in advanced to see if i can find anything?
14:22 ANAND          cimbakahn, for gamma, add the following to minetest.conf (modify if it already exists):
14:22 ANAND          display_gamma = 2.5
14:23 ANAND          modify the value to your needs
14:24 cimbakahn      Sometimes it is so dark that it is almost black!  Why don't they just paint the screen with a black magic marker?  Same effect.  It is to the point that the game is almost unplayable because of this.
14:25 cimbakahn      I will look.
14:26 ANAND          cimbakahn, looks like the issue is with your display
14:26 ANAND          the display_gamma aims to fix just that
14:26 ANAND          gamma is (and should be) a client-side setting
14:27 cimbakahn      Well, if it is client side, it won't work on the online-server correct?
14:28 rubenwardy     no, the point is that it will
14:28 cimbakahn      Ok.
14:30 cimbakahn      display_gamma isn't on the minetest.conf page, so i guess it's a new line you need to add correct?
14:30 IhrFussel      cimbakahn, client-side pretty much always means "something the server cannot control"
14:30 IhrFussel      You simply add missing lines yes
14:31 entuland       hello everybody
14:31 entuland       not sure I understand this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L925
14:32 entuland       if I compute "node.param2 / 4" I can of course get a fractional number
14:32 entuland       which wouldn't match with the 0-5 range indicated there
14:33 entuland       same thing for the modulo, I would get only 0-3 range
14:33 entuland       how am I supposed to find out which direction and which orientation my node has?
14:34 cimbakahn      Okay I did it.  I am walking back in right now to see if it works.
14:34 cimbakahn      walking is logging   I am tired.
14:34 sfan5          entuland: 24 / 4 equals 6, I don't see the problem
14:35 cimbakahn      I don't see much difference.
14:35 entuland       the problem is that if I have param2 == 1, doing param2 / 4 I would get 0.25
14:36 entuland       I am dumping out values, and that's what I'm getting
14:36 sfan5          math.floor
14:36 sfan5          perhaps the documentation should be more explicit about this
14:37 sfan5          since lua doesn't have any bitops the / 4 is used as replacement for >> 2
14:37 entuland       uhm... no I don't think that's what I'm expected to do
14:37 cimbakahn      Did i do it correctly?  I just copied and pasted this to the bottom and saved it ----> display_gamma = 2.5
14:37 entuland       oh no wait a minute
14:38 entuland       I may be misunderstanding the orientation
14:38 entuland       okay now I think I get it
14:40 IhrFussel      cimbakahn, try increasing the value if it's still too dark
14:41 entuland       yep now I get it, thanks sfan5
14:45 cimbakahn      IhrFussel, You mean to 3.0 ?
14:45 IhrFussel      cimbakahn, just any higher value...see if it even makes a difference
14:46 lumberJ        hey cimbakahn
14:46 ANAND          cimbakahn, fiddle with the values until you get the right result
14:47 lumberJ        make sure your monitor brightness is turned up. This, I have found, is often the easiest fix. :P
14:48 entuland       minetest world coordinates are left-handed with the thumb (+x) going west, index finger (+y) going up, and middle finger (+z) going north, correct?
14:48 entuland       hope I don't get lost cause I was preparing all my code with right-handed system :P
14:48 ANAND          entuland, http://dev.minetest.net/vector
14:48 ANAND          left-handed system actually... :P
14:49 entuland       damn
14:49 entuland       thanks for pointing out the doc, sorry
14:49 cimbakahn      lumberJ, Hello!
14:50 entuland       I had west and east swapped, silly me
14:51 lumberJ        sorry i missed you ping yesterday. i was asleep.
14:53 cimbakahn      lumberJ, That's ok.  How are you?
14:53 lumberJ        good, thanks
14:53 cimbakahn      I am trying to find my brightness control on the os.
14:53 lumberJ        is it not on your function keys?
14:53 ANAND          cimbakahn, it's usually within the graphics driver settings
14:54 ANAND          If you still can't find them, you can increase your monitor's brightness
14:54 cimbakahn      It is a laptop.
14:56 lumberJ        laptops usually have brightness countrols on the keys. Mine is f3 to increase brightness, for example
14:56 lumberJ        also you can check your power settings
14:56 ANAND          Then the display settings will be bound to Fn + F1-12 keys
14:57 cimbakahn      Mine is F3 also, but it doesn't work.  I'm running BlackLab Linux LXDE.
14:58 lumberJ        did you try fn + f3 as ANAND suggested?
14:58 lumberJ        you keybindings may not be set up properly. afaik you can also access it in the power setting in most distros though
15:02 lumberJ        LXDE is so barebones in some areas. you might have to do something like this: https://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/change-screen-brightness-in-lxde/
15:04 cimbakahn      I'm looking at this, but this is from 2015 ----> https://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/change-screen-brightness-in-lxde/
15:05 lumberJ        yeah, i doubt the tech in that area has changed much.
15:05 lumberJ        I'll look and see if I see anything more current though
15:09 lumberJ        i alway use xfce on lightweight systems because most laptops are not actually lightweight enough to be worth enduring this sort of pain :P
15:10 cimbakahn      I tried this and it worked ----> xrandr --output LVDS-1 --brightness 1
15:11 lumberJ        sweet
15:11 cimbakahn      The above was typed into the terminal.  I just have to find a way to make it stick permanently.
15:12 cimbakahn      lumberJ, Yes, i tryed the fn.
15:12 lumberJ        read the rest of that article. it explains how to bind the command to the desired keys
15:15 cimbakahn      XFCE was my first linux love.  My second is LXDE.  I prefer LXDE.  And it is not so barebones.  You would be surprised what i can do with this thing.
15:16 cimbakahn      Ok.
15:16 lumberJ        sure, you can do anything that you can with any other desktop. just takes a lot more setup up front in my experience
15:16 lumberJ        its great if you have a super light/really old lap top
15:18 lumberJ        personally, i like to customize things on my DE but i don't want to spend a lot of time on things like keybindings for basic functions that everyone would want.
15:21 cimbakahn      This value seems to work the best ----> xrandr --output LVDS-1 --brightness 1.1
15:29 lumberJ        hmm, that's funny. cimbakahn how did you get into blacklablinux?
15:30 cimbakahn      lumberJ, I was looking for a more pure LXDE experience, that is how.
15:32 lumberJ        seems a bit of an oddball distro. the maintainers include a highway patrolman from NC :P
15:33 lumberJ        do they allow transgender people to choose the which desktop they use?
15:36 lumberJ        i'm sure its fine, i am just thrown by the fact that they claim to be the "only" distro that "truly" focuses on ease of use
15:37 lumberJ        :D
15:43 cimbakahn      lumberJ, ?
15:43 cimbakahn      lumberJ, Where did you find that information
15:43 cimbakahn      ?
15:45 lumberJ        their website
15:45 lumberJ        http://www.blacklablinux.org/p/why-black-lab-linux.html
15:48 MinetestBot    paramat: May-14 09:41 UTC <sfan5> https://github.com/Treer/amidstest
15:50 cimbakahn      I don't believe feelings, religion, or a persons sexual orientation has anything to do with what OS you run or even science for that matter.
15:53 paramat        cimbakahn night is meant to be dark, it's expected to be barely able to see what you are doing :) just place some light sources
15:54 paramat        lol andirc, that user annoyed me on IRC too
15:54 cimbakahn      paramat, It is not just night, it is almost black at times.
15:56 paramat        that's what night is like, however, it is full moon, so it's your monitor settings
15:57 paramat        i blame MC for making night like day :)
15:58 rubenwardy     eyes adjust to the dark
15:58 rubenwardy     and it's never fully dark IRL unless you're deep underground
15:59 paramat        i do find server days too short though, the default time speed is too fast for me, again i blame MC and us copying them
16:02 paramat        but then, we do now have a new light curve so night may have got darker. btw you can now adjust the light curve clientside (maybe only in MT0.5)
16:12 Astrobe        " I don't believe feelings, religion, or a persons sexual
16:12 Astrobe        orientation has anything to do with what OS you run". Never heard of TempleOS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS
16:20 cimbakahn      Human eyes can only adjust so much to darkness.  We don't have cats eyes.
18:03 MinetestBot    02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Vertical biome blend: Tune PRNG seed for finer detail (#7329) 13a01a9ca https://git.io/vpQGt (152018-05-14T18:01:58Z)
19:21 MinetestBot    02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix segfault in player migration and crash in log_deprecated 13a1598e1 https://git.io/vpQ4S (152018-05-14T19:19:52Z)
21:12 entuland       eheheh, I've just tested my first mesh generated from Lua following the wool blocks positions :P
22:28 entuland       damn... I cannot write to the mod's folder from within my own mod, the security mod blocks me ahahaha
22:28 entuland       I am working that around by dumping the .obj file contents in a formspec...
22:29 entuland       it requires me to copy it, replace it in the actual file and reload the world
22:29 entuland       but it's working: https://imgur.com/a/y2wnAaP
22:30 entuland       and the code takes proper care to avoid creating hidden faces (as long as voxels touch eachother)
22:31 entuland       I like the way the faces get shaded separately in the resulting mesh highlighting the single mini voxels
22:31 entuland       I think I will not try to optimize it by merging the faces
22:32 entuland       not sure if it's the case of trying and optimize the case of hollow shapes either
22:41 paramat        ah nice
22:41 Miner_Joe      So, I tried installing landrush. . . I know-I know. . . It was just so tempting. Now every time I try to start my server, I get this: "Subgame [] could not be found." and "ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec."
22:42 paramat        do post an image of the resulting node too
22:42 entuland       it's there beneath
22:42 entuland       there are two images in there
22:42 entuland       the resulting node stands on the "canvas control" so to say (the gray block)
22:44 entuland       I'm making another build to be captured that way, I'll post the single node version agains some other block for comparation
22:44 paramat        oh hm
22:44 paramat        thought that was just the initial preview
22:44 entuland       you can actually sort of see the resulting node in the first image, bottom left, standing on the gray block :P
22:45 entuland       right above the stack of 99 yellow wool blocks
22:47 paramat        i guess i was hoping for the resulting meshnode to combine neighbouring minivoxels, no separate shading (even though that looks nice in a way)
22:47 entuland       I should try that (I also guess that I am missing some param in the obj file to smooth the faces)
22:49 paramat        personally i would prefer combined faces, but avoiding internal faces is the important part :)
22:50 entuland       I'm not sure how I should treat non-rectangular cases
22:50 entuland       I guess I would need to split the surface in rectangles to ensure valid faces
22:51 entuland       as I can't have vertices going inside, so to say
22:51 paramat        anyway good and useful mod
22:51 entuland       thanks
22:51 entuland       I'll have to clean up a bit of stuff before releasing :P
23:01 Miner_Joe      Is there any way I can start a Minetest server verbose? So I can see where it hangs and what value it's talking about as subgame?
23:04 entuland       sorry Miner_Joe, I'm pretty new myself and I'm not sure how to change the verbosity
23:05 entuland       I know you can open it with the console though (I think it works only on windows: "minetest.exe --console")
23:05 Miner_Joe      One last Q before I go silent: Is there a way to set the system-wide share?
23:06 entuland       sorry, no idea
23:06 entuland       paramat, another build with larger screenshots and two closeups: https://imgur.com/a/em6UbU3
23:08 entuland       can I get voiced in the hub just in case I decide to drop in sometime in the future?
23:12 Shara          entuland: sure
23:12 entuland       thank you Shara :)
23:13 Shara          Done, and no problem